655 réponses à ce sujet

[Cainhurst Crow]

Guns wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Bull****, your whole post reeks of it. Gandulf was always planned to survive? Aint that a crock of ****, how about you show some proof before you go spouting off diahreha from  your mouth eh. And Aragon surviving was grade aid bait and switch from the writer to juke the audience, it served no purpose and was only there for drama, much like leilianas death. And don't you even dare try and say Darth Vader was  a character meant to be in more then just new hope. He was flying out into space with no control over his ship and millions of miles away from anyone, he was as good as dead. New hope itself was never intended to be anything but a stand alone film, but george got greedy and cocky and decided he wanted to bring the guy back and make things more "dramatic" by retconing anakin skywalker to be alive and be a main character this whole time.

-5/10 troll harder and get better ****ing ammo.

Both The Lord of the Rings and The Star Wars Trilogies were all written and finished before the first of either series was released and both authors and had planned out the stories, and how they would end, from the beginning. Darth Vader was always planned to survive. Gandalf was always planned to survive. Aragorn was always planned to survive. Leliana was not originally written to serve a greater purpose in Mage-Templar war and was not originally written to survive if the Warden turned on her in Andraste's temple.

You obviously don't know what retconning means, or trolling for that matter. Again, please refrain from discussing subjects you have no clue about.

"Star Wars Trilogies were all written and finished before the first of either series was released"
"Both Authors had planned out their stories, and how they wound end, from the beginning."

OH MY GOD DOn'T MAKE ME LAUGH SO HARD!

Okay, better troll atempt but I'l still saying you're shooting .22's when you should be gunning .44 mags.

[Veruin]

MasterScribe wrote...

I wonder, how many companions can you kill off or ignore? Or "fire" from the team?

You can kill/ignore all of them but Alistair, at least, for 90% of the game.

[Gwydden]

Hazegurl wrote...

If you kill Ohgren in Origins he shows up in Awakening claiming he woke up naked in the woods and the Warden only thought he killed him. 

Anders can die at Vigil's Keep, found with an arrow in the neck or badly burned. Anders will claim he faked his death in DA2.  

Now I'm wondering if that murder knife was enough. lol!

I didn't even know Oghren could be killed.

I wouldn't put too much stock in epilogue slides, though.

[Cainhurst Crow]

CynicalShep wrote...

mx_keep13 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

mx_keep13 wrote...

This thread makes me need a drink anyone buying?

I have natural light or rolling rock.

Choose.

I'll take rolling rock,im drinking to get drunk

Joining you two.
Stella Artois or Jack Daniels?

**** that **** and get me a rum.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Anyone who was ever hinted at being dead in any story should stay dead, and revealing them as alive
later is bad writing. Now I know, and knowing is half the battle.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Gwydden wrote...

As I said, gameplay/story segregation.

Never acceptable.

The greatest consequence of these inconsistencies, though, is that they effectively invalidate all the cinematics.  If what we see on the screen isn't a literal representation of what's happening in the game world, what is the point then of watching the scenes at all?

Before we had cinematic presentation, all we had was gameplay, and while much of gameplay was abstract, at least it didn't contradict itself.  Adding the cinematics should add someting, but as long as there remains gameplay/story segregation in this way, the cinematics are pointless.

From a gameplay perspective, there is no difference between simply killing Leliana and decapitating Leliana.  As such, there should be no cinematic difference unless that difference matters.  And, as this discussion shows, the decapitation didn't matter.  Do any of the decapitations matter?  We have no evidence that they do.  So why are they in the game at all?

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 23 décembre 2013 - 08:29 .

[Afro_Explosion]

@Darth Brotarian Rum? My kind of guy!

[Cainhurst Crow]

Personally, I don't see what the big deal is. Bioware games were just fine when they didn't care about what choice you made before. The import features was just to make the smaller details of the game feel more personalized, while the bigger plot elements would be changed if need be.

I don't see how the occasional retcon is bad, when not changing it doesn't affect the overall plot in the slightest.

[Gwydden]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Never acceptable.

The greatest consequence of these inconsistencies, though, is that they effectively invalidate all the cinematics.  If what we see on the screen isn't a literal representation of what's happening in the game world, what is the point then of watching the scenes at all?

Before we had cinematic presentation, all we had was gameplay, and while much of gameplay was abstract, at least it didn't contradict itself.  Adding the cinematics should add someting, but as long as there remains gameplay/story segregation in this way, the cinematics are pointless.

From a gameplay perspective, there is no difference between simply killing Leliana and decapitating Leliana.  As such, there should be no cinematic difference unless that difference matters.  And, as this discussion shows, the decapitation didn't matter.  Do any of the decapitations matter?  We have no evidence that they do.  So why are they in the game at all?

I agree, but the fact remains that decapitating a character in an animation means nothing to the story. Zevran suffered the same treatment. If we talk about terrible examples of gameplay/story segregation, Hawke using magic right in fron of Cullen and the latter not even noticing it is a much worse sinner in my eyes.

Modifié par Gwydden, 23 décembre 2013 - 08:35 .

[Gwydden]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Personally, I don't see what the big deal is. Bioware games were just fine when they didn't care about what choice you made before. The import features was just to make the smaller details of the game feel more personalized, while the bigger plot elements would be changed if need be.

I don't see how the occasional retcon is bad, when not changing it doesn't affect the overall plot in the slightest.

My problem is I don't even consider it a retcon. It was one of many choices, one very few people took, and it wasn't even explicit enough to justify the conviction of so many who firmly believe they killed her. Can't the PC fail and be wrong even once?

[Cainhurst Crow]

I cut off zevran's head and he stood up and told me his life story and then I took him into the party, because why not have an immortal zombie elf helping me?

[Hazegurl]

Gwydden wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

If you kill Ohgren in Origins he shows up in Awakening claiming he woke up naked in the woods and the Warden only thought he killed him. 

Anders can die at Vigil's Keep, found with an arrow in the neck or badly burned. Anders will claim he faked his death in DA2.  

Now I'm wondering if that murder knife was enough. lol!

I didn't even know Oghren could be killed.

I wouldn't put too much stock in epilogue slides, though.

Yeah you just have to get his approval rating low enough and he'll pick a fight at camp. You can fight him and can choose to kill him or he'll remain at camp. He can kill you if you lose the fight. And I've seen a video where he gets sick of you and walks away. I love Oghren too much to get these outcomes. But either way, he'll still show up at Vigil's Keep to join up. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

Gwydden wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Personally, I don't see what the big deal is. Bioware games were just fine when they didn't care about what choice you made before. The import features was just to make the smaller details of the game feel more personalized, while the bigger plot elements would be changed if need be.

I don't see how the occasional retcon is bad, when not changing it doesn't affect the overall plot in the slightest.

My problem is I don't even consider it a retcon. It was one of many choices, one very few people took, and it wasn't even explicit enough to justify the conviction of so many who firmly believe they killed her. Can't the PC fail and be wrong even once?

NO!!! The power fantasy has to be maintained! Our mary sue protags can't handle the rules of the npc's be applied to them!!!

[Sylvius the Mad]

Gwydden wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Never acceptable.

The greatest consequence of these inconsistencies, though, is that they effectively invalidate all the cinematics.  If what we see on the screen isn't a literal representation of what's happening in the game world, what is the point then of watching the scenes at all?

Before we had cinematic presentation, all we had was gameplay, and while much of gameplay was abstract, at least it didn't contradict itself.  Adding the cinematics should add someting, but as long as there remains gameplay/story segregation in this way, the cinematics are pointless.

From a gameplay perspective, there is no difference between simply killing Leliana and decapitating Leliana.  As such, there should be no cinematic difference unless that difference matters.  And, as this discussion shows, the decapitation didn't matter.  Do any of the decapitations matter?  We have no evidence that they do.  So why are they in the game at all?

I agree, but the fact remains that decapitating a character in an animation means nothing to the story. Zevran suffered the same treatment. If we talk about terrible examples of gameplay/story segregation, Hawke using magic right in fron of Cullen and the latter not even noticing it is a much worse sinner in my eyes.

But what we're seeing here isn't just gameplay/story segregation.  It's cutscene/story segregation.

So if the cinematics don't reflect the gameplay, and they don't reflect the story, what are they for?

[Gwydden]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

But what we're seeing here isn't just gameplay/story segregation.  It's cutscene/story segregation.

So if the cinematics don't reflect the gameplay, and they don't reflect the story, what are they for?

Neither Zevran nor Leliana get decapitated in cinematics. I'm afraid I don't follow.

Modifié par Gwydden, 23 décembre 2013 - 08:41 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Gwydden wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Never acceptable.

The greatest consequence of these inconsistencies, though, is that they effectively invalidate all the cinematics.  If what we see on the screen isn't a literal representation of what's happening in the game world, what is the point then of watching the scenes at all?

Before we had cinematic presentation, all we had was gameplay, and while much of gameplay was abstract, at least it didn't contradict itself.  Adding the cinematics should add someting, but as long as there remains gameplay/story segregation in this way, the cinematics are pointless.

From a gameplay perspective, there is no difference between simply killing Leliana and decapitating Leliana.  As such, there should be no cinematic difference unless that difference matters.  And, as this discussion shows, the decapitation didn't matter.  Do any of the decapitations matter?  We have no evidence that they do.  So why are they in the game at all?

I agree, but the fact remains that decapitating a character in an animation means nothing to the story. Zevran suffered the same treatment. If we talk about terrible examples of gameplay/story segregation, Hawke using magic right in fron of Cullen and the latter not even noticing it is a much worse sinner in my eyes.

But what we're seeing here isn't just gameplay/story segregation.  It's cutscene/story segregation.

So if the cinematics don't reflect the gameplay, and they don't reflect the story, what are they for?

to be pretty to look at. seeing as the only cinematic we see is leiliana yelling "NO!" before attacking and being killed in game, sometimes with a decapitation sometimes without, I don't know what we're talking about.

Speaking of which, puse is a very underrated color. IT looks fine as is.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 23 décembre 2013 - 08:42 .

[ghostzodd]

Star fury wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

The primary purpose for putting a choice into a game is for it to affect that game.

And we can close the thread now. If some don't like that, deal with it. Or don't buy the game.

Wow that is some sound logic:?

[Fast Jimmy]

Gwydden wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

But what we're seeing here isn't just gameplay/story segregation.  It's cutscene/story segregation.

So if the cinematics don't reflect the gameplay, and they don't reflect the story, what are they for?

Neither Zevran nor Leliana get decapitated in cinematics. I'm afraid I don't follow.

Since a "killshot" animation is a visual representation of a standard attack (and therefore here to provide nothing more than visual stimulation and excitement), I'm sure that would fall under cinematic for Sylvius. Visualization for visualization a own value is very movie or cinematic-esque.

[Hazegurl]

StreetMagic wrote...

lmao.. Oghren wakes up naked in the woods? I suppose that makes sense if I kill him. I'd definitely loot him and then dispense of the body. Usually give him the Blood Dragon set. Can't leave that hanging around.

LOL! I don't think I can bring myself to get his approval rating that low but I know I would loot the hell out of him if I did.  

At Vigil's Keep if he is left at the Keep and the warden saves the city he "dies" fighting two Orges but wakes up  later. Whatever he's drinking I want it!  

[Gwydden]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Since a "killshot" animation is a visual representation of a standard attack (and therefore here to provide nothing more than visual stimulation and excitement), I'm sure that would fall under cinematic for Sylvius. Visualization for visualization a own value is very movie or cinematic-esque.

I still personally consider these animations part of the gameplay rather than cinematics. If Leliana had been decapitated in a dialogue rather than in actual combat, so to say, I would agree with everyone here there is no not-lame way out of it I can think of. But a combat animation is hardly conclusive evidence, considering Zevran calmly talks to you after getting his head chopped of. Obviously the developers don't put any storytelling value into animations.

Modifié par Gwydden, 23 décembre 2013 - 08:55 .

[L. Han]

Cloning tech. Thedas has cloning tech.

[Fast Jimmy]

Gwydden wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Since a "killshot" animation is a visual representation of a standard attack (and therefore here to provide nothing more than visual stimulation and excitement), I'm sure that would fall under cinematic for Sylvius. Visualization for visualization a own value is very movie or cinematic-esque.

I still personally consider these animations part of the gameplay rather than cinematics. If Leliana had been decapitated in a dialogue rather than in actual combat, so to say, I would agree with everyone here there is no not-lame way out of it I can think of. But a combat animation is hardly conclusive evidence, considering Zevran calmly talks to you after getting his head chopped of. Obviously the developers don't put any storytelling value into animations.

Which goes back to Sylvius point - if you gain nothing via gameplay (dead is dead, you don't get a bonus to damage or increased XP for a kill animation) and the story ignores it, what purpose does it have?

The answer is, of course, that violent sword porn is a marketable feaure to have, even if it does gum up the plot a little. I'm just trying to explain why (I think) Sylvius referred to it as a cinematic.