655 réponses à ce sujet

[wolfhowwl]

I read the first post. A statement like "I'm of the opinion that if you cannot fulfill the task of properly carrying over every choice you presented us in a game, and flesh out all these variations into at least an acceptable quality, then don't give us the choices." is going result in some incredulous reactions due to its outlandishness.

[Star fury]

Guns wrote...

What's the point of importing choices if they are just going to be knit picked on whether they will carry over or not?

mx_keep13 wrote...
Your just out of line period you don't just start slamming people who don't share your line of thinking. 

I'm not slamming anyone who disagrees and explains their argument. I am slamming drones who just come into threads and say "lol no u r rong" to anyone who disagrees with what Bioware is doing. Especially with one that was as maturely written as the OP's post.

Me, "a drone who just come into threads and say "lol no u r rong" to anyone who disagrees with what Bioware is doing"? LMAO, thanks for entertainment!

[Guns]

wolfhowwl wrote...

I read the first post. A statement like "I'm of the opinion that if you cannot fulfill the task of properly carrying over every choice you presented us in a game, and flesh out all these variations into at least an acceptable quality, then don't give us the choices." is going result in some incredulous reactions due to its outlandishness.

Perhaps. But expecting a non-magical character you decapitated to remain dead isn't outlandish at all. And retconning is just bad writing incarnate. 

[Star fury]

zMataxa wrote...

Me and several others must have bad taste. 
Thank you for letting me know.

Well, it's my opinion. If you like DA2, fair enough.

[StarLitStranger]

I see where the Op is coming from... For one thing Leliana being alive if you killed her is pretty annoying. But for me that is all that it is, an annoyance. Most choices are used in the next game.

The dragon age series is so young and should have time to build the right formula (especially in this) which is a pretty unique idea of carrying over decisions. Most other game series that promise "choice" do not carry those decisions over into the next game and end up choosing the most popular or best storyline as cannon.

It seems Bioware is always expected to produce these fantasy games that live up to unrealistic expectations... Not from the community as a whole but for each individual. I guess that's the burden of creating something so popular and unique.

The choices that are present in these games add replay value and an awesome element that few games have. Isn't that reason enough to care?

Modifié par StarLitStranger, 23 décembre 2013 - 05:15 .

[zMataxa]

Hazegurl wrote...
Well I try not to be too demanding.

Day 1 DAI playthorugh Reward: Olesian Hat +5 Persuasion (and persuasion is muy importante!)

Hazegurl wrote...
That is interesting to think about. I would like to think that if a player didn't recruit Anders in Awakening thus ending up with him getting killed then they wouldn't want him in DA2. If they like both, then I think it boils down to living with your choices. Just because a player likes both doesn't mean they should get both. It could increase playthough numbers. Although I'm sure some players will be dissatisfied at having a similar play through with the characters in DA2. However, Ash and Kaidan were two characters sharing the same story and I think they have different personalities at least. Also Kaidan seems more accomplished. Also, the story for both Anders and Finn could be slightly different. Finn loved the Circle in Ferelden, well what happened that got him sent to Kirkwall and why is he bitter about it? Could be a chance to give us something different while Anders stick with the same story.

The Ash/Kaidan choice is a great example of a Bioware shuffle that worked.
I will admit - I forgot that - having only done 1 playthrough on ME series and it seems like a long time ago too (pitiful excuses for my memory lapse). 
Good points!  Very creative solutions to all these potentially thorny issues.
You make it all seem so easy.  Shame on you. 

[Guns]

StarLitStranger wrote...

I see where the Op is coming from... For one thing Leliana being alive if you killed her is pretty annoying. But for me that is all that it is, an annoyance. Most choices are used in the next game.
The dragon age series is so young and should have time to build the right formula especially in this which is a pretty unique idea of carrying over decisions. Most other game series that do promise "choice" do not carry those decisions over into the next game.

It seems Bioware is always expected to produce these fantasy games that live up to unrealistic expectations... Not from the community as a whole but for each individual. I guess that's the burden of creating something so popular and unique.

The choices that are present in these games add replay value and an awesome element that few games have. Isn't that reason enough to care?

There's nothing unrealistic about it. Designers at Bioware wanted to make a new fantasy universe that was a throwback to the Baldur's Gate games, then those designers didn't like the new direction Bioware was taking and quit. The new designers took over and made the sequel to appeal to a different audience than their existing fans and pissed them off. 

Modifié par Guns, 23 décembre 2013 - 05:18 .

[zMataxa]

Star fury wrote...

zMataxa wrote...

Me and several others must have bad taste. 
Thank you for letting me know.

Well, it's my opinion. If you like DA2, fair enough.

  Cheers!

[AtreiyaN7]

Dear OP, why should I give a flying frak about your thread? My question is mostly rhetorical and 100% snarky.

[Guns]

Star fury wrote...
Me, "a drone who just come into threads and say "lol no u r rong" to anyone who disagrees with what Bioware is doing"? LMAO, thanks for entertainment!

That post wasn't directed to you. The target was posters like this...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Dear OP, why should I give a flying frak about your thread? My question is mostly rhetorical and 100% snarky.

Modifié par Guns, 23 décembre 2013 - 05:24 .

[zMataxa]

Guns wrote...

zMataxa wrote...
This topic has been debated so many times.
Sure, it's still valid today.
I think you just have to take many of them as just registering their votes yet once again - though maybe a bit tersely at times.
They aren't drones.  They just seem like drones after having debated this already many times.
Right or wrong - you gotta factor that in.

They are under no obligation to post, or to even enter the thread. 

I see you are factoring in why they are here, ...NOT.
They have strong formed opinions on the matter.
I think they have the right to register that?!  No?

[Guns]

zMataxa wrote...

I see you are factoring in why they are here, ...NOT.
They have strong formed opinions on the matter.
I think they have the right to register that?!  No?

If their opinions are not strong enough to want to repeat, in full with a discussion, then they are not so strong that they cannot ignore this thread.

Modifié par Guns, 23 décembre 2013 - 05:28 .

[zMataxa]

Guns wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

I read the first post. A statement like "I'm of the opinion that if you cannot fulfill the task of properly carrying over every choice you presented us in a game, and flesh out all these variations into at least an acceptable quality, then don't give us the choices." is going result in some incredulous reactions due to its outlandishness.

Perhaps. But expecting a non-magical character you decapitated to remain dead isn't outlandish at all. And retconning is just bad writing incarnate. 

___________________

You are underplaying the impact of the  OP's solution of  "then don't give us choices" at the beginning.
It triggers reactions and many of them not favorable.
If you're gonna play with fire with dramatic conclusions then don't be surprised if you end up in the fire as well.  To pout now, is not stepping back far enough and observing what role OP had in it with this dramatic opener.
If anything this could be taken as a formal education on different ways to engage people and what reactions to expect.

[zMataxa]

Guns wrote...

zMataxa wrote...

I see you are factoring in why they are here, ...NOT.
They have strong formed opinions on the matter.
I think they have the right to register that?!  No?

If their opinions are not strong enough to want to repeat, in full with a discussion, then they are not so strong that they cannot ignore this thread.

__

We will have to disagree on that point.
Their points are still valid in my books and add to the whole discussion in many different ways.
Cheers.

[Guns]

zMataxa wrote...

Guns wrote...

zMataxa wrote...

I see you are factoring in why they are here, ...NOT.
They have strong formed opinions on the matter.
I think they have the right to register that?!  No?

If their opinions are not strong enough to want to repeat, in full with a discussion, then they are not so strong that they cannot ignore this thread.

__

We will have to disagree on that point.
Their points are still valid in my books and add to the whole discussion in many different ways.
Cheers.

Explain how "No. You're wrong.", and then never entering the thread again, adds to discussion?

Modifié par Guns, 23 décembre 2013 - 05:39 .

[zMataxa]

Can you provide me with a link to that exact post in the first few pages?
I can't find that wording.

[StarLitStranger]

Guns wrote...

There's nothing unrealistic about it. Designers at Bioware wanted to make a new fantasy universe that was a throwback to the Baldur's Gate games, then those designers didn't like the new direction Bioware was taking and quit. The new designers took over and made the sequel to appeal to a different audience than their existing fans and pissed them off. 

Anyone who thinks they can replicate BG right now is just crazy. I have had this debate with my husband. All the companions needed was a voice actor, a sprite, and a portrait picture. Look to indie developers for that... Not a huge company with crazy expectations (with graphics, multiple consoles, and time restraints...) 

I think Bioware knows what went wrong and what went right with DA2. And I am glad those mistakes were made early in the series. People made it clear that they liked DA:O much more and longed for that. Not to mention Skyrim came out and everyone remember what an RPG can really do! I feel like in the future less mistakes with this series will be made and I don't need a gimmick to make it more enjoyable.

This is off topic but I guess I'll just say this...
When it came to Mass Effect I really cared about the decisions I made transferring over. I played one person and shaped that persons story. For Dragon Age I see a world to be set loose in and a character separate from others I played in the past. I am much more interested in new characters and different scenarios then I am concerned that the Warden will show up or minor things like that. Hopefully in the future they will be more mindful of Retcon. I also would prefer it if the next game was set years later so I don't have to listen to people arguing over how they want Anders as a companion yet again or whatever else people say... Those things won't affect my enjoyment because I look for something new in each game, not reminders of what I have done. (Those are nice to.)

[Guns]

Angrywolves wrote...

thread needs locking.

EntropicAngel wrote...

Sounds like YOU, friend, don't understand either the value of choice or the intent of role-playing.

KC_Prototype wrote...

Somebody needs a nap and some apple juice.

All useless comments that just dismiss the OP and add nothing to the discussion.

StarLitStranger wrote...
Anyone who thinks they can replicate BG right now is just crazy. I have had this debate with my husband. All the companions needed was a voice actor, a sprite, and a portrait picture. Look to indie developers for that... Not a huge company with crazy expectations (with graphics, multiple consoles, and time restraints...) 

I think Bioware knows what went wrong and what went right with DA2. And I am glad those mistakes were made early in the series. People made it clear that they liked DA:O much more and longed for that. Not to mention Skyrim came out and everyone remember what an RPG can really do! I feel like in the future less mistakes with this series will be made and I don't need a gimmick to make it more enjoyable.

This is off topic but I guess I'll just say this...
When it came to Mass Effect I really cared about the decisions I made transferring over. I played one person and shaped that persons story. For Dragon Age I see a world to be set loose in and a character separate from others I played in the past. I am much more interested in new characters and different scenarios then I am concerned that the Warden will show up or minor things like that. Hopefully in the future they will be more mindful of Retcon. I also would prefer it if the next game was set years later so I don't have to listen to people arguing over how they want Anders as a companion yet again or whatever else people say... Those things won't affect my enjoyment because I look for something new in each game, not reminders of what I have done. (Those are nice to.)

I agree with you on being more interested in seeing more of Thedas that we haven't experienced yet, but not everyone agrees. Trying to take everything from Mass Effect and incorporating it into Dragon Age 2 instead of recognizing it is it's own series won't help with that either. That being said, I still think major events should transfer over if they'll affect what evers happening, even if it takes place in a different nation. 

This whole Leliana death debate shouldn't even be a problem because they shouldn't have useless cameos of every friggin companion in the games when they aren't necessary and just make the world feel smaller. 

Modifié par Guns, 23 décembre 2013 - 06:38 .

[zMataxa]

@StarLitStranger
Wish I could add a +1 rep for your good post.
Well said!

[AtreiyaN7]

Guns wrote...

Star fury wrote...
Me, "a drone who just come into threads and say "lol no u r rong" to anyone who disagrees with what Bioware is doing"? LMAO, thanks for entertainment!

That post wasn't directed to you. The target was posters like this...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Dear OP, why should I give a flying frak about your thread? My question is mostly rhetorical and 100% snarky.

Maybe you missed the entire year of endless whining in the ME3 forums over the ME3 endings? There's a difference between being a drone and/or an apologist versus simply being exasperated after having just read the ten millionth thread on choice, the lack of choice, BioWare's allegedly broken promises, player agency, retconning, it's-my-headcanon-so-it's-the-only-thing-that's-right/acceptable-and-if-you-don't-cater-to-every-decision-that-I-ever-made-I-HATE-YOU-FOREVER, BLAH, BLAH, FREAKING BLAH.

These issues existed in the DA forums prior to the ME3 kerfuffle, but at this point, it's old - really, really old. But hey, go on beating dead horses for the rest of your lives if you like. I generally prefer to be flippant and succinctly snarky these days in threads like these (unless the topic actually deserves some sort of in-depth discussion) versus wasting an hour (or more) on a carefully crafted post which will only be ignored by those looking for easy targets to attack.

Now if the OP and/or you and/or whoever else can't deal with the fact that no game in the near future will ever be able to cater to every single one of a player's choices - including any headcanon that they decide to make up - then maybe you shouldn't bother playing DA:I or BW games or any RPGs from other devs either.

There are going to be limits to what any developer can ultimately give the player in terms of choice and the impact of those choices, especially if they have to be carried across multiple games. You can't realistically have a million permutations of a game because devs do not have an endless supply of money to spend. Sometimes they'll do a better job of giving you the illusion that you did something meaningful and impactful, other times they won't. Deal with it (or don't and take up Jenga instead/whatever).

*rolleyes@actually having now wasted more time on this thread than it ever deserved*

EDIT: I forgot to quote your laugh-inducing statement earlier - "If their opinions are not strong enough to want to repeat, in full
with a discussion, then they are not so strong that they cannot ignore
this thread."

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 23 décembre 2013 - 05:59 .

[Guns]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...
Maybe you missed the entire year of endless whining in the ME3 forums over the ME3 endings? There's a difference between being a drone and/or an apologist versus simply being exasperated after having just read the ten millionth thread on choice, the lack of choice, BioWare's allegedly broken promises, player agency, retconning, it's-my-headcanon-so-it's-the-only-thing-that's-right/acceptable-and-if-you-don't-cater-to-every-decision-that-I-ever-made-I-HATE-YOU-FOREVER, BLAH, BLAH, FREAKING BLAH.

These issues existed in the DA forums prior to the ME3 kerfuffle, but at this point, it's old - really, really old. But hey, go on beating dead horses for the rest of your lives if you like. I generally prefer to be flippant and succinctly snarky these days in threads like these (unless the topic actually deserves some sort of in-depth discussion) versus wasting an hour (or more) on a carefully crafted post which will only be ignored by those looking for easy targets to attack.

Now if the OP and/or you and/or whoever else can't deal with the fact that no game in the near future will ever be able to cater to every single one of a player's choices - including any headcanon that they decide to make up - then maybe you shouldn't bother playing DA:I or BW games or any RPGs from other devs either.

There are going to be limits to what any developer can ultimately give the player in terms of choice and the impact of those choices, especially if they have to be carried across multiple games. You can't realistically have a million permutations of a game because devs do not have an endless supply of money to spend. Sometimes they'll do a better job of giving you the illusion that you did something meaningful and impactful, other times they won't. Deal with it (or don't and take up Jenga instead/whatever).

*rolleyes@actually having now wasted more time on this thread than it ever deserved*

Then you shouldn't post in these threads and companies shouldn't promise player decisions being impactful and transfering over if they don't. 

[Star fury]

Hazegurl wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Guns wrote...

The OP is making a very reasonable and valid point in this thread and anyone who is disregarding everything he has to say is just a blatant Bioware drone who would defend them even if Bioware started forcing them into prisons.

No, sorry YOU are wrong David Gaider. If I chop off someone's head and they turn out to be alive in another game where I imported the decisions of my character from the previous game, that's just bad storytelling and writing PERIOD.

Watch out, we have a badass over here!

Why did you delete your sentence where you asked David Gaider to be fired? Coward. Pity I didn't make a screenshot. 

He deleted it, geez. The only reason to want a screen shot is to continue to provoke a fight. Quite honestly, that's pretty much the reason why you're here since your first post  is how the thread should be closed.  

Decent person would have apologized for doinga  wrong thing ,and not just pretending that he did nothing wrong. 

[Fredward]

I haven't really minded the way BW has handled the decision importing thing thus far. I think it's probably cuz my expectations aren't as huge as some. The only thing that gets me is the retcons and that only happens with the deaths, or percieved/implied deaths. DG's replies haven't exactly mitigated those concerns. But oh well. If DA's gonna get all Bleach-esque with the deaths (s/he's deeeaaaaaaddddd! BUT WAIT NOT REALLY) then I'll build a bridge. And keep my rants at bay, at least for now. We'll see how DAI goes.

[AtreiyaN7]

Guns wrote...

Then you shouldn't post in these threads and companies shouldn't promise player decisions being impactful and transfering over if they don't. 

Just like the OP has the right to post an extremely tired topic in which the thread title seems to hint at a certain amount of self-entitlement, other people have the right to roll their eyes and snark if that's all they feel that the thread is worth. Deal with that too while you wrestle with the idea of accepting that no dev on Earth is going to be able to accommodate your every whim.

*yawn*

[zMataxa]

Guns wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

thread needs locking.

EntropicAngel wrote...

Sounds like YOU, friend, don't understand either the value of choice or the intent of role-playing.

KC_Prototype wrote...

Somebody needs a nap and some apple juice.

All useless comments that just dismiss the OP and add nothing to the discussion.

Well I think these posters should account for themselves.
But, I'll offer my interpretations in the meantime since we're on the topic.
Angrywolves - a regular.  perhaps his preference for "consolidating" threads and thinking this is a troll thread (It felt like it might be as well to me when i first showed up considering how often this theme has come up and then the dramatic "no choices" statement.)
EA - has always had strong opinions and is a regular as well.  He underlines his values & priorties clearly, but does it in his manner.
KC_Prototype -  another regular - who this time posted common BSN snark.  It's a normal everyday part of the BSN this kind of snark.  He obviously disgrees using his sarcasm.

I wouldn't say they are useless at all.
They each register their position so that most regulars know right away where things are at.
You may not agree with the delivery.
It's certainly not in line with the Bioware motto "Be excellent to each other".
But they add to the drama that keeps things interesting and they register their opinions as they do so.
I found each one to be a contribution.
It's not always easy if you don't keep up - I will grant you that.
It's just the reality of the world though.

As for being dismissed, well that all ties into OP's opening post again.
Play with fire...and ...








 

Modifié par zMataxa, 23 décembre 2013 - 06:08 .