655 réponses à ce sujet

[Sanunes]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

That's just another way of saying "Oh your choices matter but not really."

If every game was suppose to be it's own seperate story, then I wish they left the characters of DA:O alone. Because the way my Warden's journey ended in that game was that he and his friends saved the world, and then he lived the rest of his days in Denerim with his pal Alistair and love Leliana. 

But then DA2 comes along and tells me "Lol nope your Warden disappeared and Leliana left."

Expecting BioWare to account for head canon or beyond the end of the game is an impossible task because there can be hundreds of different outcomes if not thousands based on what the player believes to have happened. The Zevran issue is something to be fine to be frustrated at because it was a clear cut "Kill" or "Don't Kill" option within the game. Leliana's survival or not is a little murkier because its based on the player's perception, for me I was able to justify it with "There is revival magic in the world to revive my characters, maybe someone did that to Leliana" and for all we know they had plans to explain it in Dragon Age 2 but simply ran out of production time and I would hate to see what would happen around here if something like that was a DLC.

[Mathias]

Sanunes wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

That's just another way of saying "Oh your choices matter but not really."

If every game was suppose to be it's own seperate story, then I wish they left the characters of DA:O alone. Because the way my Warden's journey ended in that game was that he and his friends saved the world, and then he lived the rest of his days in Denerim with his pal Alistair and love Leliana. 

But then DA2 comes along and tells me "Lol nope your Warden disappeared and Leliana left."

Expecting BioWare to account for head canon or beyond the end of the game is an impossible task because there can be hundreds of different outcomes if not thousands based on what the player believes to have happened. The Zevran issue is something to be fine to be frustrated at because it was a clear cut "Kill" or "Don't Kill" option within the game. Leliana's survival or not is a little murkier because its based on the player's perception, for me I was able to justify it with "There is revival magic in the world to revive my characters, maybe someone did that to Leliana" and for all we know they had plans to explain it in Dragon Age 2 but simply ran out of production time and I would hate to see what would happen around here if something like that was a DLC.

Leaving the Warden's fate at the end of DA:O alone is an impossible task? Cut me a break.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Oh, look, it's this thread again.


Heads up, poeple: CHOICE and CONSEQUENCE are two different thing.
Attacking a character is a choice. Death is a consequence that may or many not happen.
Anyone that uses random animations to base their arguments on OR anyone who uses "but my character would have done X" as an argument (even tough the game doesn't let your character do X - for example,. making sure someone is dead) is someone BioWare should ignore.

[Doford]

It's called inquisition. A Inquisition is a attack on heresy. Heresy is another word for choice. Expecting this game to be any different to DA:2 and a return to DA:O in terms of choice sounds unlikely. DA2 turned dragon age into a complete joke. Unless there is a huge change of thinking with the staff at BioWare don't expect a return to origin's style of choice.

Origins is about choice, You can be good or bad. Kirkwall is about a brutal lack of choice, you were pretty much a idiot and just went along with the ride without any sense of consequence. I hope DA:I is about judgement. A blend of the two games so the 3 options would be Good, Bad and the Status Quo. Though the title of the game doesn't give me any confidence this will be the case.

[Boycott Bioware]

Nohvarr wrote...
If OP were discussing the illusion of choice within the game, as Quistina and others have complained about, that would be fine, and I would point them to the 30 minute video in which a town is destroyed because the player choose to sacrifice it to save their keep. But the OP is complaining about choices affecting future games and harping on the Leilana incident, despite other choices coming over just fine.

There is no "illusion of choice" because there is no choice...such is "i remove the chance for compromise because there is no compromise"

The problem is, not only in the game itself having no choice, the future games giving the middle finger to us for whatever we thought about things we do in previous game.

Such example...KotOR 1 and 2...in KotOR 1 let say we play as female Revan, light side, she become the hero of the Republic through her redemption, she save the Republic, hailed and honored....but in KotOR 2, she going missing searching for the "True Sith" and Republic is falling, Jedi Masters are dead, Jedis are no more, there are other Sith Masters suddenly appearing destroying planets...so WTF? Not only that, in TOR, Revan is canonically male and WTF with him?(edit : It doesn't make sense, Revan going missing searching for the "True Sith" while the same time Sith masters messing around destroying planets and killing Jedis....)

And so in KotOR 2, we play as The Exile...she's goes missing too...later we know that she got backstabbed by Sith Lord wannabe, and die, WTF? She defeated 3 Sith Lords before, one that can destroy a planet, one who cannot die and one who can kill 3 Jedi masters with one strike...she's also The Force blackhole sucking the Force out of others, having so much new power we never heard of during her traveling, beating up Mandalorians, beating up Echani warriors, beating up Revan illusion...she's a unique Jedi, special, feared by Jedi and Sith...but she die by a cheap backstab??? Oh, Kreia is still live after we kill her....

My point is...it makes everything worthless

Modifié par Qistina, 23 décembre 2013 - 06:03 .

[Wulfram]

Loghain will make a really awesome companion, no matter what all those with silly headcanons about killing him say.  And he'll make a great husband for mother Hawke too.

Modifié par Wulfram, 23 décembre 2013 - 05:56 .

[StarLitStranger]

Wulfram wrote...

Loghain will make a really awesome companion, no matter what all those with silly headcanons about killing him say.  And he'll make a great husband for mother Hawke too.

I think that using characters like this is just such a waste of resources. If you can kill them then why have them show back up? Only some of the players will see them. Usually the cameo is stupid and unnessicary. Leliana could have been ANYONE and why have the option in DA:O to haver her "hardened", question her faith, or kill her.

I think there is an exception every once and awhile. If someone like Anders showed up or someone talked about how I killed him that would be intersting considering it was important to the plot (kind of...) I like cameos sometimes but I really hope they don't over do it.

If say Merrill shows back up all messed up and an abomination I would like "okay... cool." It is an INTERESTING thing that can happen but something like "Hey I'm Zevran, the crows are out to get me... lets have a threesome... for some reason I am on this little island.. what a conicidence.." That is fan service.


I don't need to see every person I ever met. I guess that is my biggest fear in going back to Fereldan.

Modifié par StarLitStranger, 23 décembre 2013 - 06:05 .

[Sanunes]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Leaving the Warden's fate at the end of DA:O alone is an impossible task? Cut me a break.

Things change, in many sequels there are changes to the story to allow for the new story to take place, so yes its an impossible task.  BioWare has many different people to attempt to please and there are ones that want what is completely opposite of what you want.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Doford wrote...

It's called inquisition. A Inquisition is a attack on heresy. Heresy is another word for choice. Expecting this game to be any different to DA:2 and a return to DA:O in terms of choice sounds unlikely. DA2 turned dragon age into a complete joke. Unless there is a huge change of thinking with the staff at BioWare don't expect a return to origin's style of choice.

I see the BSN crazy is in full swing today.

[Boycott Bioware]

Another example...

In DA2 we maybe trying hard to be nice with the Arishok and the Qunari, but they will end up burning the city no matter we being nice to them or not. So what is the point of being nice or not to the Qunari because they end up burning the city anyway?

Orsino and Meredith argue with each other at the high town, Hawke intervene, there are multiple choices of dialogues and responses...but what for? It end up with Grand Cleric show up and told Meredith and Orsino going back to their office...the whole scene is for nothing.

Let say we support Orsino, still we have to work for Meredith finding the lost Mages. We cannot say "No", we must find those Mages. We can argue with Meredith in the end, but it is for nothing...we must leave her office....so all we done is for what?

In KotOR 1, we trying hard to make things better in Taris, helping peoples, finding cure of Rakghoul disease, winning duel championship, killing bad guys....Taris end up destroyed by Malak. So why wasting time doing those quests while Taris will get destroyed no matter what?

Let say we play as a Mage in DA:O, but in DA2 it doesn't matter, the Warden Mage who save the world from destruction doesn't mean a damn in DA2. So why bother being a Mage in DA:O saving everyone ass while it doesn't mean anything in DA2?

[CynicalShep]

> I KNOW
>you will PROBABLY

So you don't know, do you?

[ObserverStatus]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...
I understand that carrying over all these choices into future games can be a nightmare in terms of coding and narrative. But I'm of the opinion that if you cannot fulfill the task of properly carrying over every choice you presented us in a game, and flesh out all these variations into at least an acceptable quality, then don't give us the choices. Or at least don't present us with as many. I don't think I'm being unfair with this.

You know who I'm a myad as hell at? Black Isle Studios. After carefully weighing my options in Fallout 1, I chose to become a Super Mutant and help The Master take over the West, so what did I get out of Fallout 2? Nothing! It retconned my decision and told me that the Vault Dweller had murdered The Master. If Black Isle didn't want to program Fallout 2 to take this decision into account, they shouldn't have given me this choice in the first place. They just took my ENTIRE PLAYTHROUGH and threw it in the trash. Stupid Black Isle Studios, I didn't want to play a Fallout 2 where humans are still extant. I'm so myad.

[The Elder King]

Nevermind

Modifié par hhh89, 23 décembre 2013 - 06:29 .

[Veruin]

Qistina wrote...

Another example...

In DA2 we maybe trying hard to be nice with the Arishok and the Qunari, but they will end up burning the city no matter we being nice to them or not. So what is the point of being nice or not to the Qunari because they end up burning the city anyway?

Orsino and Meredith argue with each other at the high town, Hawke intervene, there are multiple choices of dialogues and responses...but what for? It end up with Grand Cleric show up and told Meredith and Orsino going back to their office...the whole scene is for nothing.

Let say we support Orsino, still we have to work for Meredith finding the lost Mages. We cannot say "No", we must find those Mages. We can argue with Meredith in the end, but it is for nothing...we must leave her office....so all we done is for what?

In KotOR 1, we trying hard to make things better in Taris, helping peoples, finding cure of Rakghoul disease, winning duel championship, killing bad guys....Taris end up destroyed by Malak. So why wasting time doing those quests while Taris will get destroyed no matter what?

Let say we play as a Mage in DA:O, but in DA2 it doesn't matter, the Warden Mage who save the world from destruction doesn't mean a damn in DA2. So why bother being a Mage in DA:O saving everyone ass while it doesn't mean anything in DA2?

1.  It determines whether or not you get the option to duel the arishock 1 on 1.  This is negated if you bring Fenris along though, since he will always get the duel.

2.  It determines who sends you a letter for help as they see you as a support for them.  It lets you explore that character is more depth.

3.  I don't recall being forced to support Meridith if you supported Orsino.  The game only defaults to Meridith if you don't pick a clear side or side with her.

4.  What the hell does the warden from Da:O have ANYTHING to do with a city in an entirely different nation?  You are playing Hawke, not the Warden 2.0

Modifié par Veruin, 23 décembre 2013 - 06:31 .

[TCBC_Freak]

You "killed" Leliana in a magic room that held magic ashes that could heal and cure anyone of anything (which you may have attempted to defile but may or may not have actually done anything to), and was guarded by a spirit warrior who had been alive since the ashes were brought there and the temple filled with spirits that could physically manifest themselves.

I'm not seeing a problem believing that someone could survive (or at least seem to have survived) almost anything in a place like that...

[Veruin]

TCBC_Freak wrote...

You "killed" Leliana in a magic room that held magic ashes that could heal and cure anyone of anything (which you may have attempted to defile but may or may not have actually done anything to), and was guarded by a spirit warrior who had been alive since the ashes were brought there and the temple filled with spirits that could physically manifest themselves.

I'm not seeing a problem believing that someone could survive (or at least seem to have survived) almost anything in a place like that...

Doesn't Oghren point out that the cave walls are practically oozing lyrium?

[SlottsMachine]

LOL. I love the thread title. If you are going to be bitter and jaded, THIS is the way to do it.

[CynicalShep]

Qistina wrote...
In KotOR 1, we trying hard to make things better in Taris, helping peoples, finding cure of Rakghoul disease, winning duel championship, killing bad guys....Taris end up destroyed by Malak. So why wasting time doing those quests while Taris will get destroyed no matter what?

I didn't really help anyone, sold the cure to the crime lord, won the championship out of pure bloodlust (and wanting to butcher that Mandaloran bad boy), kill both good and bad guys without discrimination and left Taris cause I was tired of it and wanted to steal a nice, fast ship. Pwning Calo and Davik added to my experience. The destruction of Taris was just a bonus. Think firework show. Work hard - party hard, amrite?

Modifié par CynicalShep, 23 décembre 2013 - 06:31 .

[SlottsMachine]

CynicalShep wrote...

> I KNOW
>you will PROBABLY

So you don't know, do you?

LOL. 

[Guns]

ignoreality wrote...

I vote that certain players' insistence that BUT THEY KILLED LELIANA OMG, is properly acknowledged in DA:I.

Upon loading the game and importing the universe state, a note appears on screen:

"Due to the choices made in Dragon Age: Origins, events of this game cannot happen in your universe. Thank you for your understanding."

The end, game closes.

Bioware has no one to blame but itself for having bad writers who think of unnecessary cameos and have to retcon because they're incapable of making new characters. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

Veruin wrote...

TCBC_Freak wrote...

You "killed" Leliana in a magic room that held magic ashes that could heal and cure anyone of anything (which you may have attempted to defile but may or may not have actually done anything to), and was guarded by a spirit warrior who had been alive since the ashes were brought there and the temple filled with spirits that could physically manifest themselves.

I'm not seeing a problem believing that someone could survive (or at least seem to have survived) almost anything in a place like that...

Doesn't Oghren point out that the cave walls are practically oozing lyrium?

That detracts from anything posted above how exactly? Lyrium let the urn be magically supercharged and allowed the spirits to stay this side of the fade. Ohhh, it totally stops them from exsisting now! I don't seem to recall a "destroy the lyrium in the mountain" choice in origins.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 23 décembre 2013 - 06:44 .

[Boycott Bioware]

Veruin wrote...
1. It determines whether or not you get the option to duel the arishock 1 on 1. This is negated if you bring Fenris along though, since he will always get the duel.

duel or not duel, the city burned

2. It determines who sends you a letter for help as they see you as a support for them. It lets you explore that character is more depth.

Help any of them get the same result in the end

3. I don't recall being forced to support Meridith if you supported Orsino. The game only defaults to Meridith if you don't pick a clear side or side with her.

The quest is a must because to justify the rebels Templar-Mage that Hawke work for Meredith...they will attack Hawke no matter what

4. What the hell does the warden from Da:O have ANYTHING to do with a city in an entirely different nation? You are playing Hawke, not the Warden 2.0

If the Mage Warden suddenly feel "it is no use, **** all, i am done with this crazy job of killing Archdemon...i am leaving"...there will be no Kirkwall because being consumed by the Blight

[Cainhurst Crow]

Guns wrote...

ignoreality wrote...

I vote that certain players' insistence that BUT THEY KILLED LELIANA OMG, is properly acknowledged in DA:I.

Upon loading the game and importing the universe state, a note appears on screen:

"Due to the choices made in Dragon Age: Origins, events of this game cannot happen in your universe. Thank you for your understanding."

The end, game closes.

Bioware has no one to blame but itself for having bad writers who think of unnecessary cameos and have to retcon because they're incapable of making new characters. 

Yes. Preciesly why dragon age 2 only had origin companions in the game helping hawke in his journey. Or why inquisitions trailer showed only origins companions helping the inquisitor. 

Make new characters already bioware! Why can't I be a elf from tevinter with special lyrium rune powers! Or a dalish keeper with blood magic! What about someone in the seeker order who isn't leiliana huh? BE ORIGINAL! I could think up these ideas right now, what's stopping your from doing the same!!!??

[Guns]

StreetMagic wrote...

Guns wrote...

ignoreality wrote...

I vote that certain players' insistence that BUT THEY KILLED LELIANA OMG, is properly acknowledged in DA:I.

Upon loading the game and importing the universe state, a note appears on screen:

"Due to the choices made in Dragon Age: Origins, events of this game cannot happen in your universe. Thank you for your understanding."

The end, game closes.

Bioware has no one to blame but itself for having bad writers who think of unnecessary cameos and have to retcon because they're incapable of making new characters. 

Leliana is intended to be more than a cameo. I think she grew on the writers after the fact. And Gaider liked her enough to make her a big character in one of his novels. Cameo in DA2, but not cameo status in general. She's become a staple to the DA world now.

That's fine, but she doesn't have to appear in every game. It just makes the world feel small and unrealistic ("durhur its a fantasy game", yeah but a story still has to have some realism to maintain integrity no matter the genre).

I don't care how much you like the character if there was an option to kill them off THEY CAN'T BE ESSENTIAL TO THE NEXT GAME'S STORY. If I kill off Alistair, he CAN'T be king in the next game if I import that choice. If I kill off Leliana, she CAN'T be an high ranking chantry official or what ever in the next game if I import that choice. Story telling 101. Not even that, logic 101.

Modifié par Guns, 23 décembre 2013 - 06:52 .