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[Star fury]

Guns wrote...

ignoreality wrote...

I vote that certain players' insistence that BUT THEY KILLED LELIANA OMG, is properly acknowledged in DA:I.

Upon loading the game and importing the universe state, a note appears on screen:

"Due to the choices made in Dragon Age: Origins, events of this game cannot happen in your universe. Thank you for your understanding."

The end, game closes.

Bioware has no one to blame but itself for having bad writers who think of unnecessary cameos and have to retcon because they're incapable of making new characters. 

I sincerely hope you don't get banned so you can spout even more funny bull****.

[Gwydden]

@Guns:

You didn't have an option to kill her. You had an option to try to kill her. The consequence of that action was never shown during DAO.

Storytelling 101: don't let what the audience wants get in the way of a good story.

Modifié par Gwydden, 23 décembre 2013 - 06:56 .

[Steelcan]

Ah BioWare choices, in ME they are made pointless and insignificant, and in DA they just get retconned....

[Brodoteau]

Ugh... so many problems with this line of argumentation. To wit and to reaffirm some of the points made:
1 You should not be playing a game with the idea of the next game in mind. That game might never exist. That was the point of the epilogues in DAO. If someone only ever played that game (with no DLC, no expansion or sequel) they still got a damn good game with some closure. So enjoy the game in your hands.
2. Back in the olden days, I played BG with Kivan in my party, Jaheira was dead (petrified and then blown to bits) and all sorts of other things. When I started playing BG2, I found that Kivan was nowhere in the game (with no explanation) and Jaheira was alive and in my party right at the beginning. I, of course, immediately took issue with this, wrote an angry letter on BSN and stopped playing or... you know... maybe I just dealt with it and moved on. I suggest you and everyone else who brings up Leliana do the same (because I assure you: you are in the minority, most people did not kill her).  And most importantly, having Jaheira alive was better for the story and BG2 was an awesome game.  Give the game a chance.   
3. Please stop fetishizing choice as the only thing that matters in an RPG. For me being part of an epic story is more important than whether or not Fenryiel is in Tevinter or not.

Sorry for being so curmudgeonly.  There is something in my egg nog. 

Please lock this thread.

Modifié par Brodoteau, 23 décembre 2013 - 06:58 .

[Steelcan]

Gwydden wrote...

@Guns

You didn't have an option to kill her. You had an option to try to kill her. The consequence of that action was never shown during DAO.

 Bullsh*t the implication in game was very clear,you killed her.  If they had planned for her to appear again she wouldnt have been able to be killed.

[Boycott Bioware]

Lets look at the premise...

i. Mage Warden save the world from the Blight.
ii. Templar oppress Mages after the world is saved
iii. The world is about to be destroyed because Mages run amok

So, why not the Mage Warden just let the world get destroyed by the Blight?

[AresKeith]

Qistina wrote...

Lets look at the premise...

i. Mage Warden save the world from the Blight.
ii. Templar oppress Mages after the world is saved
iii. The world is about to be destroyed because Mages run amok

So, why not the Mage Warden just let the world get destroyed by the Blight?

Because the Blight wasn't gonna destroy the World?

[Afro_Explosion]

Qistina wrote...

Lets look at the premise...

i. Mage Warden save the world from the Blight.
ii. Templar oppress Mages after the world is saved
iii. The world is about to be destroyed because Mages run amok

So, why not the Mage Warden just let the world get destroyed by the Blight?

Because  a grey warden stops the blight there is no other option. 

[Star fury]

Steelcan wrote...

Ah BioWare choices, in ME they are made pointless and insignificant, and in DA they just get retconned....

Both of your statements are wrong. But don't let logic and sense stop you.

Modifié par Star fury, 23 décembre 2013 - 07:01 .

[Guns]

Gwydden wrote...

@Guns

You didn't have an option to kill her. You had an option to try to kill her. The consequence of that action was never shown during DAO.

Storytelling 101: don't let what the audience wants get in the way of a good story.

She's dead. I saw the option and I saw the consequence. I literally had the option to seperate her head from her neck. She literally had no blood running to her brain anymore. Her heart literally stopped pumping blood through her body. Her conscience literally ceased to exist. She literally died... literally.

Storytelling 101: bringing back a character who was obviously killed because you don't have the ability to make a new interesting character is not a good story, and proves you are a bad writer... literally.

Modifié par Guns, 23 décembre 2013 - 07:02 .

[Gwydden]

Steelcan wrote...

Bullsh*t the implication in game was very clear,you killed her.  If they had planned for her to appear again she wouldnt have been able to be killed.

That was not my point. It is a loophole nevertheless. BioWare determines whether your character actions succeed or not, and since it was never explicit that you did kill her...

She happens to be important for DAI plot. It's their character, it's their world, it's their story. In the writer's place, I'd be pissed people got into such an uproar over an insignificant choice because it didn't turn out how they wanted it to.

Read the contract - you get to determine the choices the PC makes. The developers get to determine the outcome of those choices.

Modifié par Gwydden, 23 décembre 2013 - 07:03 .

[Afro_Explosion]

Guns wrote...

Gwydden wrote...

@Guns

You didn't have an option to kill her. You had an option to try to kill her. The consequence of that action was never shown during DAO.

Storytelling 101: don't let what the audience wants get in the way of a good story.

I literally had the option to seperate her head from her neck. She's dead. I saw the option and I saw the consequence. She literally had no blood running to her brain anymore. Her heart literally stopped pumping blood through her body. Her conscience literally ceased to exist. She literally died... literally.

Storytelling 101: bringing back a character who was obviously killed because you don't have the ability to make a new interesting character is not a good story, and proves you are a bad writer... literally.

Thedas is a fantasy world if flemeth can cheat death why not leliana, she dies with the ashes obvious solution. 

[Gwydden]

Guns wrote...

She's dead. I saw the option and I saw the consequence. I literally had the option to seperate her head from her neck. She literally had no blood running to her brain anymore. Her heart literally stopped pumping blood through her body. Her conscience literally ceased to exist. She literally died... literally.

[Dismissive] Gameplay/story segregation.

[Steelcan]

Star fury wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Ah BioWare choices, in ME they are made pointless and insignificant, and in DA they just get retconned....

Both your statement are wrong. But don't let logic and sense stop you.

.  I could provide examples if you'd like

Collector Base decision, made insignificant, made an all himan council, retconned, supported Cerberus, ignored and have some proAlliance autodialogue, killed the rachni, lol nope, destroyed the heretic geth, mainstream geth still join the reapers

DA, Leliana died, nope, Sten was left in a cage, nope, Anders died, nada, pick a boon, that will be retconned away, told Cullen about Anders, zip

[CynicalShep]

Shepard literally died in ME2 *moonwalks away*

[AresKeith]

mx_keep13 wrote...

Guns wrote...

Gwydden wrote...

@Guns

You didn't have an option to kill her. You had an option to try to kill her. The consequence of that action was never shown during DAO.

Storytelling 101: don't let what the audience wants get in the way of a good story.

I literally had the option to seperate her head from her neck. She's dead. I saw the option and I saw the consequence. She literally had no blood running to her brain anymore. Her heart literally stopped pumping blood through her body. Her conscience literally ceased to exist. She literally died... literally.

Storytelling 101: bringing back a character who was obviously killed because you don't have the ability to make a new interesting character is not a good story, and proves you are a bad writer... literally.

Thedas is a fantasy world if flemeth can cheat death why not leliana, she dies with the ashes obvious solution. 

Because Flemeth is a powerful Mage or something more and Leliana is not? 

[Gwydden]

Shepard was a powerful mage? The Spirit Monk in JE, too?

The things you learn in the BSN.

[Guns]

mx_keep13 wrote...
Thedas is a fantasy world if flemeth can cheat death why not leliana, she dies with the ashes obvious solution. 

Because it was obvious even before the choice that you weren't going to kill Flemeth. Morrigan even said so, this was just to set her back and let Morrigan escape/give her time.

There was no inclination of that with Leliana. You had the option to kill Wynne there if you wished too and she did not come back AND SHE HAD A FRIGGIN FADE SPIRIT POSSESSING HER. But yeah Leliana, a normal spy with no magical attributes, got up, sprinkled a little of the ashes on her neck, and her head just glued right back on. Yup, excellent story telling. Bioware should see if they can sell the rights for that script. 

[Gwydden]

Guns wrote...

Because it was obvious even before the choice that you weren't going to kill Flemeth. Morrigan even said so, this was just to set her back and let Morrigan escape/give her time.

There was no inclination of that with Leliana. You had the option to kill Wynne there if you wished too and she did not come back AND SHE HAD A FRIGGIN FADE SPIRIT POSSESSING HER. But yeah Leliana, a normal spy with no magical attributes, got up, sprinkled a little of the ashes on her neck, and her head just glued right back on. Yup, excellent story telling. Bioware should see if they can sell the rights for that script. 

With all due respect (I'm really sorry, but I'm tired today, and not in the mood to turn tactful mode on), you're aware you're throwing a fit because a choice you made didn't turn out how you wanted, right? Whatever happened to unexpected consequences?

And how is that particular choice so important that it merits such an uproar?

Modifié par Gwydden, 23 décembre 2013 - 07:14 .

[FireAndBlood]

Guns wrote...

Gwydden wrote...

@Guns

You didn't have an option to kill her. You had an option to try to kill her. The consequence of that action was never shown during DAO.

Storytelling 101: don't let what the audience wants get in the way of a good story.

She's dead. I saw the option and I saw the consequence. I literally had the option to seperate her head from her neck. She literally had no blood running to her brain anymore. Her heart literally stopped pumping blood through her body. Her conscience literally ceased to exist. She literally died... literally.

Storytelling 101: bringing back a character who was obviously killed because you don't have the ability to make a new interesting character is not a good story, and proves you are a bad writer... literally.

I cut off Zevran's head during his ambush, five minutes later he joined my party, five hours later he and my warden were going at it like kinky nugs.

[Steelcan]

My favorite part is how even if Leliana wasn't decapitated she was still maimed, mauled, incinerated, frozen, petrified, slashed, etc... The ashes are defiled and of no us, yet she still managed to walk/crawl off a mountain

[Iakus]

Steelcan wrote...

My favorite part is how even if Leliana wasn't decapitated she was still maimed, mauled, incinerated, frozen, petrified, slashed, etc... The ashes are defiled and of no us, yet she still managed to walk/crawl off a mountain

I am still willing to withold judgement until an explanation is provided.  if it makes sense, go with it.  If it's another Lazarus Project, then proceed with ridicule.

[Steelcan]

iakus wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

My favorite part is how even if Leliana wasn't decapitated she was still maimed, mauled, incinerated, frozen, petrified, slashed, etc... The ashes are defiled and of no us, yet she still managed to walk/crawl off a mountain

I am still willing to withold judgement until an explanation is provided.  if it makes sense, go with it.  If it's another Lazarus Project, then proceed with ridicule.

Im fully expecting a quick "rumors of my death...blah" then no more mention of it

[Guns]

Gwydden wrote...
With all due respect (I'm really sorry, but I'm tired today, and not in the mood to turn tactful mode on), you're aware you're throwing a fit because a choice you made didn't turn out how you wanted, right? Whatever happened to unexpected consequences?

With all due respect (I'm really sorry, but I'm tired today, and not in the mood to turn tactful mode on), you are aware that's the whole point of this thread? That Bioware said our choices would matter and we are given the option to import them only for them to be ignored 

Gwydden wrote...
And how is that particular choice so important that it merits such an uproar?

Well if you recall...

Gwydden wrote...
She happens to be important for DAI plot.

FireAndBlood wrote...
I cut off Zevran's head during his ambush, five minutes later he joined my party, five hours later he and my warden were going at it like kinky nugs.[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie]

In which case there was a cutscene immediatly after to show that he did not die. Not a two year period where they said she wad dead in that option, but then decided to bring her back regardless of your decision because they are incompetent writers.

Modifié par Guns, 23 décembre 2013 - 07:20 .

[FireAndBlood]

Steelcan wrote...

My favorite part is how even if Leliana wasn't decapitated she was still maimed, mauled, incinerated, frozen, petrified, slashed, etc... The ashes are defiled and of no us, yet she still managed to walk/crawl off a mountain

Well clearly a wizard did it.