154 réponses à ce sujet

[Zoikster]

andy69156915 wrote...

Zoikster wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

I actually agree with David here. Conversations definitely felt more alive in DA2 and ME2 and ME3 than in prior games where conversations were much more static.

Def disagree with this. 

So you prefer objectively worse cinematology and camera work and directing just so you can have a conversation in the middle of a battle if you want.

No - I think the writing was just flat-out worse for DA2 and the conversations felt static and unimportant. 

[andy6915]

Zoikster wrote...

No - I think the writing was just flat-out worse for DA2 and the conversations felt static and unimportant.

Well your are just flatly wrong about the "static" part. Say what you will about the rest, but the actual directing in cutscenes was far better in DA2 where people actually moved and acted organically than "let's stand around like statues while we talk" like Origins was.

And I meant the thing about conversation in the middle of a fight. I once had Allistair make me choose between him and Zevran when we were surrounded by darkspawn because I accidently clicked him at a bad time... Who then got mad when I said it wasn't the time for this conversation, because in a middle of a fight is obviously the best time to bring THAT up.

[Zoikster]

andy69156915 wrote...

Zoikster wrote...

No - I think the writing was just flat-out worse for DA2 and the conversations felt static and unimportant.

Well your are just flatly wrong about the "static" part. Say what you will about the rest, but the actual directing in cutscenes was far better in DA2 where people actually moved and acted organically than "let's stand around like statues while we talk" like Origins was.

And I meant the thing about conversation in the middle of a fight. I once had Allistair make me choose between him and Zevran when we were surrounded by darkspawn because I accidently clicked him at a bad time... Who then got mad when I said it wasn't the time for this conversation, because in a middle of a fight is obviously the best time to bring THAT up.

At least that conversation sounds interesting. I'm not talking about animations and cut-scenes, I'm talking about quality of writing, which means the quality of discussion. I really don't feel like DA2 was up to par in its most basic format; however, I did enjoy the voice-overs.

[andy6915]

Zoikster wrote...

I'm not talking about animations and cut-scenes.

Well me and David are.

DA2 writing=/=DA2 directing and camera work and animations

Modifié par andy69156915, 23 décembre 2013 - 07:56 .

[Gregolian]

I always enjoyed being able to talk to my companions whenever I wanted in DA:O. DA2's one liners that you got unless you were in their hangout area was quite annoying and made it feel much more impersonal.

[Jonathan Seagull]

For what it's worth, the last indication I remember (which could certainly be outdated) is that you would indeed be able to engage companions in conversation at essentially any time -- meaning at any given point in the story, as opposed to only when they have something specific to discuss -- but not necessarily anywhere.

In other words, if you decide you want to talk to Varric, you can do so, but maybe not in the middle of a dungeon. I think this provides a nice balance because it gives you more freedom in engaging companions, while still allowing for more detailed cinematic work.

Modifié par Jonathan Seagull, 23 décembre 2013 - 08:31 .

[Gregolian]

Jonathan Seagull wrote...

For what it's worth, the last indication I remember (which could certainly be outdated) is that you would indeed be able to engage companions in conversation at essentially any time -- meaning at any given point in the story, as opposed to only when they have something specific to discuss -- but not necessarily anywhere.

In other words, if you decide you want to talk to Varric, you can do so, but maybe not in the middle of a dungeon. I think this provides a nice balance because it gives you more freedom in engaging companions, while still allowing for more detailed cinematic work.

I agree with this.  Speaking to them in the middle of an area where baddies could be or during a fight is kinda loopy...  but not being allowed to chat with them in the streets of Kirkwall (as an example from DA2) next to a weapons shop was goofy.

[Kidd]

Jonathan Seagull wrote...

For what it's worth, the last indication I remember (which could certainly be outdated) is that you would indeed be able to engage companions in conversation at essentially any time -- meaning at any given point in the story, as opposed to only when they have something specific to discuss -- but not necessarily anywhere.

In other words, if you decide you want to talk to Varric, you can do so, but maybe not in the middle of a dungeon. I think this provides a nice balance because it gives you more freedom in engaging companions, while still allowing for more detailed cinematic work.

I believe this is what was said and meant, yes. I have a hard time believing BioWare would go back to talking anywhere when that completely disables most interesting animations. 

[Spectre slayer]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Jonathan Seagull wrote...

For what it's worth, the last indication I remember (which could certainly be outdated) is that you would indeed be able to engage companions in conversation at essentially any time -- meaning at any given point in the story, as opposed to only when they have something specific to discuss -- but not necessarily anywhere.

In other words, if you decide you want to talk to Varric, you can do so, but maybe not in the middle of a dungeon. I think this provides a nice balance because it gives you more freedom in engaging companions, while still allowing for more detailed cinematic work.

I believe this is what was said and meant, yes. I have a hard time believing BioWare would go back to talking anywhere when that completely disables most interesting animations. 

Hmm something like that, however we will not be able to talk to them wherever we want and not everywhere in the world. We can only talk to them in certain safe area's and after certain points in the story or after reaching a point in the world, in fact according to Gaider there's not even an icon to initiate a conversation in the world.

No, the main difference between DAO and DA2 conversations with the party members was the lack of random questions-- being able to to ask the character questions about their past or about the lore. The full conversations-- as in the ones that actually progressed their plots or relationships, were gated (mostly by approval level). DA2 had more content on the plot side, as in the one plot per act (as opposed to DAO, which simply had one short plot per party member), though I think the perception of many people is that those plots were simply quests and not really "part" of the character's interactions.
We sort of hit a middle ground in DAI. There are the random questions you can ask the party member, similar to DAO, and we're down to one plot again (which is part of their development arc). They have the full conversations which are primarily gated by event, as mentioned (though these depend on the player seeking them out, usually-- no more missions demanding you seek the party member out). You still cannot talk to them anywhere in the world (there's not even the option to click on them outside of "safe" areas), but there are certain conversations that can initiate elsewhere, depending on whether they're present.

http://social.biowar...ndex/17225147/3

@Mike_Laidlaw well I mean like being able to speak to the character when you want like DA origins? And thank you for your answer xxx5:39pm - 5 Nov 13

@Dixie_Sweety123 Oh! Then, yes. You'll be able to do that.5:54pm - 5 Nov 13

@Mike_Laidlaw Please tell me. #DAI Conversations with companions everywhere or in a certain area?6:34pm - 5 Nov 13

@IlidanDA Not everywhere.8:00pm - 5 Nov 13

@Mike_Laidlaw So where?8:08pm - 5 Nov 13
@IlidanDA Somewhere.8:23pm - 5 Nov 13

There are still ambient conversations and also interactive party banter.

[Afro_Explosion]

I liked the character interactions in da2 it felt like they had lives beyond you, like when they visit each other.

Modifié par mx_keep13, 23 décembre 2013 - 04:16 .

[Wulfram]

I often prefer the "objectively worse" cinematography. It feels more natural and, for lack of a better word, immersive.

Real conversations are very boringly shot from a cinematic PoV

[Pasquale1234]

Wulfram wrote...

I often prefer the "objectively worse" cinematography. It feels more natural and, for lack of a better word, immersive.

Real conversations are very boringly shot from a cinematic PoV

^This.

Conversation quests quickly became little more than a PITA chore in DA2, at least for me.  I don't play games to watch pre-scripted cinematic moments, but to immerse myself in that world - and being able to converse with companions is part of that.

Scenario:  You've just thwarted the Qunari threat and been declared Champion of Kirkwall, and a litany of "go talk to your companions" quests trigger.  Three of those companions are standing right there, but you cannot talk to them there.  Instead, you have to run to an exit point and wait thorugh load screen after load screen after load screen to have those conversations and complete those quests.  There is nothing organic about that.

[StarLitStranger]

andy69156915 wrote...

Zoikster wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

I actually agree with David here. Conversations definitely felt more alive in DA2 and ME2 and ME3 than in prior games where conversations were much more static.

Def disagree with this. 

So you prefer objectively worse cinematology and camera work and directing just so you can have a conversation in the middle of a battle if you want*.

*And yes that happens. I once had Allistair make me choose between him and Zevran when we were surrounded by darkspawn because I accidently clicked him at a bad time... Who then got mad when I said it wasn't the time for this conversation, because in a middle of a fight is obviously the best time to bring THAT up.

I would just reload the save after that. I always do that if I get annoyed.


I think it is so much better to be able to set them aside and look at them with the 3rd person camera. Feels more like a real conversation.

It is also so easy to miss really interesting dialouge the other way.

Now that being said... I hope the seperate what dialouge options that are available throughout the game instead of just lumping them all together at the start.

Modifié par StarLitStranger, 23 décembre 2013 - 05:37 .

[First_Warden]

I want companions arguing with each, person your talking to and especially to the Antagonist whoever that may be. I also like the fact they're bringing back hugging. I always kissed Leliana when I had the chance

[Sylvius the Mad]

David7204 wrote...

I would much rather have companions interact with each other and the environment (which they really can't do if the player can talk to them anywhere with anyone) then be able to talk to them anywhere.

In fact, I really don't see much point in it. Why would it matter if the player can talk to them anywhere?

If the PC sees something he'd like to ask his companion about, why shouldn't he be able to ask the companion right then?

Player agency is much more important than presentation or cinematics.  I have yet to derive any value at all from the cinematics in BioWare's games.

[Jaulen]

David7204 wrote...

No, there should obviously be dialogue on missions. But it should focus on the missions, or the environment. Characters commenting on that sort of thing. Focus on what's happening around them.

Asking questions about the character's background, about romance, that sort of thing - that can wait until the characters are at camp.

This way, all conversations can be context-sensitive and thus of higher cinematic quality.

I agree with this. It was a little jarring in DAO to accidentially click on Alistair right after a battle, all covered in darkspawn gore, and he gives me a rose.


I want the companion banter again (I loved that bit from DAO and DA2), have the companions comment on specific things/areas that might relate to them or when the protag does/says something they may/may not agree with (that was missing a lot in both games, the 'click on tree' get Anders to say something bit was not super well done in DA:A). Many times I'd walk into an area and think that somebody should say something ... but nothing, or I make a choice/say something I know a companion may not like and nothing happens (If I recall correctly DA2 did this better than DAO).

And the 'get to know your companions' scripted convos were better than DAO where they just kind of stand there...and stand there...DA2 convos felt more organic.

[Wulfram]

Just kind of standing there is how most conversations happen, I think.

[David Gaider]

You will be able to speak with your companions at any time. If they don't have a full, cinematic conversation queued up, then you have access to the same kind of "standard" questions that you could ask companions in DAO (which change over time, depending on context).

You will not be able to talk to them anywhere, however. Those conversations are only available in a "safe zone", such as the equivalent of the party camp. Conversations while out on a mission are restricted to banter and mission-specific dialogue (such as Alistair's conversation that pops up before you enter Redcliffe the first time).

There are also no quests provided to alert you that a companion has a major conversation waiting. While those were intended as a convenience feature, some people evidently interpreted that as them being told to go and talk to the companion--and thus they felt they could only talk to a companion when the companion wanted. Which is perception only, sure, but what else is agency but perception? So the conversations are there for the player to discover, if they wish, short of the companion seeking them out on their own.

[Ambeth]

Wait, we could go talk to companions in their homes even without quests? And they would have something to say? That's... not how I remember things.

[In Exile]

Wulfram wrote...

I often prefer the "objectively worse" cinematography. It feels more natural and, for lack of a better word, immersive.

Real conversations are very boringly shot from a cinematic PoV

I disagree completely. DA:O conversations were far worse for me because of how unnatural they felt, and how much they broke immersion. None of the cues that would be there in a real conversation - body language, facial cues, etc. - were there. The statutes just confused me, because I couldn't figure out what DA:O was trying to be - did it want to be an abstraction or a cinematic presentation of a conversation? Was I supposed to gather real information form the character's physical imagine, or was that just fluff? 

[In Exile]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
If the PC sees something he'd like to ask his companion about, why shouldn't he be able to ask the companion right then?

But that's obviously impossible. You can't, for example, ever ask for directions in an RPG. The very nature of an RPG is that this freedom does not exist. So any conversation has to start from the basic limitation of pre-written exchanges. 

[Angrywolves]

David Gaider wrote...

You will be able to speak with your companions at any time. If they don't have a full, cinematic conversation queued up, then you have access to the same kind of "standard" questions that you could ask companions in DAO (which change over time, depending on context).

You will not be able to talk to them anywhere, however. Those conversations are only available in a "safe zone", such as the equivalent of the party camp. Conversations while out on a mission are restricted to banter and mission-specific dialogue (such as Alistair's conversation that pops up before you enter Redcliffe the first time).

There are also no quests provided to alert you that a companion has a major conversation waiting. While those were intended as a convenience feature, some people evidently interpreted that as them being told to go and talk to the companion--and thus they felt they could only talk to a companion when the companion wanted. Which is perception only, sure, but what else is agency but perception? So the conversations are there for the player to discover, if they wish, short of the companion seeking them out on their own.

Someone isn't playing DAI today.

The conversations in DAO had some bugs if I recall and didn't always properly trigger.
Of course the DAO pc players could mod those conversations to bypass the bugs, a luxury that reportedly won't be available to them in DAI.
Supposedly we'll have the return of kissing your Li.Players complained about missing that in DA2.Trigger that should be interesting.
The slap that was taken out of DAO, where Morrigan slaps the warden. I guess the thinking was that was too violent. Something like that, when a companion turns against the Inquisitor would be interesting, since of course it was taken out of DAO.:innocent:

[Karlone123]

David7204 wrote...

I would much rather have companions interact with each other and the environment (which they really can't do if the player can talk to them anywhere with anyone) then be able to talk to them anywhere.

In fact, I really don't see much point in it. Why would it matter if the player can talk to them anywhere?

It's almost like everyone else is having a good time at a party, and you kind of wreck it being the morbid one.

[DyneEnigma]

David Gaider wrote...

You will be able to speak with your companions at any time. If they don't have a full, cinematic conversation queued up, then you have access to the same kind of "standard" questions that you could ask companions in DAO (which change over time, depending on context).

You will not be able to talk to them anywhere, however. Those conversations are only available in a "safe zone", such as the equivalent of the party camp. Conversations while out on a mission are restricted to banter and mission-specific dialogue (such as Alistair's conversation that pops up before you enter Redcliffe the first time).

There are also no quests provided to alert you that a companion has a major conversation waiting. While those were intended as a convenience feature, some people evidently interpreted that as them being told to go and talk to the companion--and thus they felt they could only talk to a companion when the companion wanted. Which is perception only, sure, but what else is agency but perception? So the conversations are there for the player to discover, if they wish, short of the companion seeking them out on their own.

Thanks for replying David. I can't wait to see and experience it in game. So excited for this game. I hope a demo will come out soon, like it did for DA2. I played DA2's demo sooooo many times before the actual game came out.

[SaltBot]

David Gaider wrote...

There are also no quests provided to alert you that a companion has a major conversation waiting. While those were intended as a convenience feature, some people evidently interpreted that as them being told to go and talk to the companion--and thus they felt they could only talk to a companion when the companion wanted. Which is perception only, sure, but what else is agency but perception? So the conversations are there for the player to discover, if they wish, short of the companion seeking them out on their own.

Will we continue to have Companions seek us out of their own volition?  One of my favourite parts of DA2 was going back to Hawke's mansion to see who was waiting to talk to me, if anyone.  It helps that I had Dog there to keep them entertained....