154 réponses à ce sujet

[llandwynwyn]

The problem with DA2 is that it was almost the same place everytime you'd a convo with an specific companion. With Fenris, his generic dark, dirty mansion. Isabela, the hanging man. Varic, the hanging man. So on and so forth. Yes, it's their place, I'm aware of that...it gets boring after replaying the game 3x times.

Modifié par llandwynwyn, 24 décembre 2013 - 01:32 .

[Direwolf0294]

I think I'd prefer having a prompt to let you know when a companion has major dialogue available.

It got pretty annoying in Mass Effect to continually do rounds on the ship to find out if companions had any new dialogue or not after each mission.

[Dermain]

Direwolf0294 wrote...

I think I'd prefer having a prompt to let you know when a companion has major dialogue available.

It got pretty annoying in Mass Effect to continually do rounds on the ship to find out if companions had any new dialogue or not after each mission.

Yep, which is why for DA2 they decided to have "quests" indicating when those types of conversations were avaible. Unfortunately, the community complained about that so we're not getting that again.

[Jonathan Seagull]

Ambeth wrote...

Wait, we could go talk to companions in their homes even without quests? And they would have something to say? That's... not how I remember things.

I think you may have slightly misunderstood what David was saying. He did not mean that there were always conversations available regardless of the "quest" status. Rather, that all games (which include such dialogues) have specific points at which new conversations became available. The quest notification mechanic of DA2 was simply to let players know about it upfront rather than having to keep checking back in vain.

I hope that made sense. Apologies if I've misunderstood where the confusion lies.

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

But that's obviously impossible. You can't, for example, ever ask for directions in an RPG. The very nature of an RPG is that this freedom does not exist. So any conversation has to start from the basic limitation of pre-written exchanges.

But it does.  I could initiate a conversation, and then discover that there was no meaningful line of questioning on that subject.  That is the PC checking with the companion right then and there.

That the question I want to ask isn't listed doesn't mean I can't ask that question - only that the response to that question is neither substantive nor modelled by the game.

Now, the same could be true without initiating the conversation at all.  But then it becomes somewhat incongruous if the companion does actually have something relevant to say back at the camp.  Why didn't he say it then?

Allowing us to check for new dialogue whenever and wherever we like is a good feature.

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

Was I supposed to gather real information form the character's physical imagine, or was that just fluff?

Just fluff.  Just like the real world.

I maintain that DAO's conversations mimicked real world conversations just about exactly.  DA2's conversations, on the other hand, gave me no control at all over my character.

[St. Victorious]

After reading what David said about there being no quests for conversations, I think that could get rather annoying and tiresome to have to constantly check with companions. I'd still like to see some sort of notification when at least potentially important dialogue is available. Maybe something as simple as them being highlighted on the map? Its not forced or intrusive like a quest notification, but still has a level of convenience for finding out new info or flavor.

[craigdolphin]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Allowing us to check for new dialogue whenever and wherever we like is a good feature.

I don't often agree with Sylvius the Mad, but when I do I wonder if my sanity is slipping.

*gibber*

[Ponendus]

David Gaider wrote...

You will be able to speak with your companions at any time. If they don't have a full, cinematic conversation queued up, then you have access to the same kind of "standard" questions that you could ask companions in DAO (which change over time, depending on context).

You will not be able to talk to them anywhere, however. Those conversations are only available in a "safe zone", such as the equivalent of the party camp. Conversations while out on a mission are restricted to banter and mission-specific dialogue (such as Alistair's conversation that pops up before you enter Redcliffe the first time).

There are also no quests provided to alert you that a companion has a major conversation waiting. While those were intended as a convenience feature, some people evidently interpreted that as them being told to go and talk to the companion--and thus they felt they could only talk to a companion when the companion wanted. Which is perception only, sure, but what else is agency but perception? So the conversations are there for the player to discover, if they wish, short of the companion seeking them out on their own.

This is um... perfect! Exactly what I was hoping for.

[Owen14]

David Gaider wrote...

You will be able to speak with your companions at any time. If they don't have a full, cinematic conversation queued up, then you have access to the same kind of "standard" questions that you could ask companions in DAO (which change over time, depending on context).

You will not be able to talk to them anywhere, however. Those conversations are only available in a "safe zone", such as the equivalent of the party camp. Conversations while out on a mission are restricted to banter and mission-specific dialogue (such as Alistair's conversation that pops up before you enter Redcliffe the first time).

There are also no quests provided to alert you that a companion has a major conversation waiting. While those were intended as a convenience feature, some people evidently interpreted that as them being told to go and talk to the companion--and thus they felt they could only talk to a companion when the companion wanted. Which is perception only, sure, but what else is agency but perception? So the conversations are there for the player to discover, if they wish, short of the companion seeking them out on their own.

This is great! I loved checking in with my companions at camp after advancements in the plot in DAO. It felt a lot more natural than what felt like blatant plot-specific quests in DA2.

Thanks Dave!

[Sylvius the Mad]

St. Victorious wrote...

After reading what David said about there being no quests for conversations, I think that could get rather annoying and tiresome to have to constantly check with companions. I'd still like to see some sort of notification when at least potentially important dialogue is available. Maybe something as simple as them being highlighted on the map? Its not forced or intrusive like a quest notification, but still has a level of convenience for finding out new info or flavor.

I wouldn't object to the companions being allowed to initiate conversation with the PC.  If they want to talk about something, they should be allowed to bring it up.

Why does the PC have to be the driver of every conversation?

[metatheurgist]

^ yep. World doesn't resolve around the PC. Though I'd prefer it if they didn't try to start convos while there's a giant spider sitting on my face (I think that happened a bit in NWN, not the spider, the starting convos during fights).

[Uccio]

Origin conversation was the best. If I wanted to talk to someone I could do so. In Da2 I had to wait for the homebase which was massively annoying.

[David7204]

David7204 wrote....

The conversations would all still be there. Who cares if they take place when the party is walking around or not? Why does it even matter? The player can wait until they're in camp or whatever to ask them generic questions about their background. The character isn't going anywhere.

[Reznore57]

It's possible companions will say stuff like "I have to talk to you when you have a minute"...
In DA2 , they sometimes did when they had some important quests waiting.

[Kaosbuddy]

David7204 wrote...

David7204 wrote....

The conversations would all still be there. Who cares if they take place when the party is walking around or not? Why does it even matter? The player can wait until they're in camp or whatever to ask them generic questions about their background. The character isn't going anywhere.

It matters, because the DA2 approach left you unable to talk to them about anything outside of certain moments.

"So, Aveline - Crazy-Eyes McChantry wants us to take this Qunari mage out of the city... sound like a trap to you?"
"Whatever you need."
"... Helpful. Fenris? No rants about smuggling a mage to freedom?"
"Always a pleasure."
"... We really need some new friends, Bethany."
"We shouldn't talk here!"
"Of course..."

[David7204]

I don't think we're on the same page.

Yes, companions obviously should have plenty of context sensitive dialogue discussing the mission, the environment, characters they've met, choices to make, that sort of thing. In other words, stuff happening around them, right now. In other words, the environment contributes to the conversation.

However, general conversations such as background and romance gain nothing by being discussed on the battlefield instead of at camp. In fact, not only do they gain nothing, they lose a great deal. So what's the point? Is there some kind of desperate dependency on being able to discuss romance with your companions at any time and any place? Do people just have uncontrollable urges to learn about their companions background RIGHT NOW during a mission?

(Note that conversations based on stuff like romance aren't necessarily general. For example, the kiss and conversation with Liara in LotSB just wouldn't be the same on the Normandy. This only applies to conversations that are general.)

I don't understand what people think they're gaining here.

Modifié par David7204, 24 décembre 2013 - 09:27 .

[werewoof]

i wanna be able to interact with them more freely rather than just like, sparse designated conversation points, but i also hope they don't just stand around until you talk to them. let them mill around whatever keep you're in, do stuff, talk to each other even.

[David7204]

Okay, do you know what you even mean by 'more freely'? That's not real helpful. Do you realize they ways this mechanic could and almost certainly would make conversations less immersive?

[bluebeam]

David Gaider wrote...

You will be able to speak with your companions at any time. If they don't have a full, cinematic conversation queued up, then you have access to the same kind of "standard" questions that you could ask companions in DAO (which change over time, depending on context).

Does that mean the system will be like in DAO/ME2 where you could have at least the illusion of a conversation even when the companion had nothing new to say? That's great news. The system implemented in Awakening/DA2/ME3 made me feel like I was talking to dolls.

Example: I want to see if Ashley has something to say.
click on Ashley--> "Good to see you!"
Uhm, we met like five minutes ago, Ashley.
click again -->"Good to see you!"
Gosh, I recruited Ashley VI.

[werewoof]

David7204 wrote...

Okay, do you know what you even mean by 'more freely'? That's not real helpful. Do you realize they ways this mechanic could and almost certainly would make conversations less immersive?

more freely as in when i damn well want to? say i wanna play a character that likes to chat with their companions and asks a lot of questions while they're hanging around at the keep. alternately, play a character that doesn't like to chat them up too much and doesn't do that. i'm not sure why you're making such a fuss, it's not like you'll be forced to stare straight at them and ask every single question. and it won't mean that you won't have dialogue with them at plot points or during quests. 

[David7204]

I'm 'making a fuss' because this necessitates scenes of far inferior cinematic quality.

[werewoof]

David7204 wrote...

I'm 'making a fuss' because this necessitates scenes of far inferior cinematic quality.

you do realize this will be on a new engine right?

one with better cinematic abilities than the one origins had?

if your big beef is "the cinematography dissappoints me" then i dunno what to tell you bucko 

[David7204]

This issue has utterly nothing whatsoever to do with the game engine. Game engines cannot preform magic.