154 réponses à ce sujet

[werewoof]

David7204 wrote...

This issue has utterly nothing whatsoever to do with the game engine. Game engines cannot preform magic.

then i dunno what else to tell you 'cause if your big reason for them cutting down content is "the cinematography could potentially be not good enough for me" then maybe movies are more your thing

[David7204]

It's not a question of 'potentially.' The cinematography would be of far inferior quality, period. Far, far inferior. A great deal of potential would go right down the drain.

Modifié par David7204, 24 décembre 2013 - 09:58 .

[werewoof]

David7204 wrote...

It's not a question of 'potentially.' The cinematography would be of far inferior quality, period. Far, far inferior. A great deal of potential would go right down the drain.

honestly i would rather have the freedom to interact with my companions when i want to rather than being stuck to a rigid set of scripted events and i'm willing to put up with """inferior"""" cinematography for that. i put up with origins entire aesthetic and it was an ugly game. 

if they could do said scripted events to where they don't feel like i spend 90% of my time running errands and little scraps of actually interacting with the characters i've come to love, sure, i could go for it, but if it's between freedom to interact with my companions when i feel like it and pretty camera angles, i can deal with the ugly cinematography. 

Modifié par tiktac, 24 décembre 2013 - 10:03 .

[thedistortedchild]

tiktac wrote...

David7204 wrote...

It's not a question of 'potentially.' The cinematography would be of far inferior quality, period. Far, far inferior. A great deal of potential would go right down the drain.

honestly i would rather have the freedom to interact with my companions when i want to rather than being stuck to a rigid set of scripted events and i'm willing to put up with """inferior"""" cinematography for that. i put up with origins entire aesthetic and it was an ugly game. 

if they could do said scripted events to where they don't feel like i spend 90% of my time running errands and little scraps of actually interacting with the characters i've come to love, sure, i could go for it, but if it's between freedom to interact with my companions when i feel like it and pretty camera angles, i can deal with the ugly cinematography. 

Seconded!

[philippe willaume]

thedistortedchild wrote...

tiktac wrote...

David7204 wrote...

It's not a question of 'potentially.' The cinematography would be of far inferior quality, period. Far, far inferior. A great deal of potential would go right down the drain.

honestly i would rather have the freedom to interact with my companions when i want to rather than being stuck to a rigid set of scripted events and i'm willing to put up with """inferior"""" cinematography for that. i put up with origins entire aesthetic and it was an ugly game. 

if they could do said scripted events to where they don't feel like i spend 90% of my time running errands and little scraps of actually interacting with the characters i've come to love, sure, i could go for it, but if it's between freedom to interact with my companions when i feel like it and pretty camera angles, i can deal with the ugly cinematography. 

Seconded!

thirded

[SonOfZeus92]

• Nice thread. I agree with the original post.

Modifié par SonOfZeus92, 24 décembre 2013 - 02:35 .

[vaire]

What Mr. Gaider said makes me look forward even more to this new game, but there was another aspect of interaction with our companions that wasn't touched in this thread (from what I have seen).
Namely: party reactions to our behavior; I do not mean the quest choiches (which usually do elicit reactions in our party), but minor things that would flesh out more the personalities and add realism to the experience.
For example: I know that there could be some love interests (like Isabela) that wouldn't be bothered by a lover who brings them along when he/she goes to the brothel (still it would be nice to hear what they would have to say about it), yet having Anders, Merril or Fenris being totally unreactive as you pay for a pronstitute in front of them maybe not even 24 hours after you declared your "undying love" is actually pretty odd. XD
I understand this is a minor thing, still it would be fun to see such reactions.

[In Exile]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
But it does.  I could initiate a conversation, and then discover that there was no meaningful line of questioning on that subject.  That is the PC checking with the companion right then and there.

But it's not. It's character derailment. If I think it's in-character to ask a question, and the game does not allow this, then it broke my character. Not much, but still broke her. 

That the question I want to ask isn't listed doesn't mean I can't ask that question - only that the response to that question is neither substantive nor modelled by the game.

Any logic that allows you to insert an infinite number of events between two points is just broken. At minimum, it breaks the basics of sensory experience, and it's entirely analogous to just pretending events on screen don't happen. 

[Quyk Sylvyr]

Maybe I'm just hoping for too much. . . but I don't see why we can't have both. Allow some conversations that can take place anywhere (i.e. the "not important" conversations) while restricting other conversations to a set place. That way, you can script the interactions between the companions around those important conversations while allowing you to have basic conversations elsewhere.

To me it would make sense that a companion would be willing to discuss basic information at a random camp, but they might be less willing to have a heart-to-heart in a place without privacy.

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

Any logic that allows you to insert an infinite number of events between two points is just broken. At minimum, it breaks the basics of sensory experience, and it's entirely analogous to just pretending events on screen don't happen.

No it isn't.  It isn't ignoring evidence.  It just refuses to draw conclusions from a lack of evidence.  Those are two very different things.

And sensory experience is already broken.

[Sylvius the Mad]

David7204 wrote...

I'm 'making a fuss' because this necessitates scenes of far inferior cinematic quality.

The cinematic quality is irrelevant.  The cinematics add nothing to the game.

[Bleachrude]

David Gaider wrote...


There are also no quests provided to alert you that a companion has a major conversation waiting. While those were intended as a convenience feature, some people evidently interpreted that as them being told to go and talk to the companion--and thus they felt they could only talk to a companion when the companion wanted. Which is perception only, sure, but what else is agency but perception? So the conversations are there for the player to discover, if they wish, short of the companion seeking them out on their own.

Ironically David...I hope you realize people are going to complain about this change as well (you can't win...)

There were people that actually L:IKED the fact that the game informed you when major new dialogue was present versus having yo constantly check each and every time (which was annoying in ME1 and ME2). Unless you go the ME3 route where after EVERY mission, the companions have at least one to two lines of new banter.

That said..people complained about this in ME3 when I thought this was BRILLIANT. It actually encouraged me to go check out every companion after every mission since there was always something new to hear AND see (please, please let their be more inter-party companion interaction a la ME3) 

[Jaulen]

vaire wrote...

What Mr. Gaider said makes me look forward even more to this new game, but there was another aspect of interaction with our companions that wasn't touched in this thread (from what I have seen).
Namely: party reactions to our behavior; I do not mean the quest choiches (which usually do elicit reactions in our party), but minor things that would flesh out more the personalities and add realism to the experience.
For example: I know that there could be some love interests (like Isabela) that wouldn't be bothered by a lover who brings them along when he/she goes to the brothel (still it would be nice to hear what they would have to say about it), yet having Anders, Merril or Fenris being totally unreactive as you pay for a pronstitute in front of them maybe not even 24 hours after you declared your "undying love" is actually pretty odd. XD
I understand this is a minor thing, still it would be fun to see such reactions.

This is actually exactlly what I'd like more of and what would make the companions feel more realistic or autonomous. To have comapnion reactions triggered by what the protag does.


Like Alistair getting mad after the fact with Connor.....hard to take his anger seriously.....he should have brought it up at that time, not three quests later when I finally go back to camp. (this is one I think was done wrongly)

Alistair bringing up his background the first time you go to redcliff....done well.

Alistair's comments if you kill the soldier in the woods, or the guy in the cage.

Zevran voicing his disagreement if you decide to kill the elves when you confront the Lady of the Forest, or use the slaves to gain power with the tevinter slavers in the alienage.

Wynne would confront you about annulling the circle, and destroying the ashes.

Leliana would confront you about the ashes (although if she wasn't there you could lie to her, shouldn't have been an option if you 'killed' Wynne)

Sten confronting you when he gets irritated at Haven that we're not headed toward the Archdemon.


Fenris getting upset that you're taking too long to help him with Denarius or Hadriana and confronting you about it.

Having Anders confront you and possibly leave after the fade sequence if you took him with.

Little things like the companion character just looking at Hawke and smiling or forwning when they make a decision that the companion does/does not agree with.

Things like that make the companions really have personalities, and seem like their own 'person' compared to the protag.

More of that...I hate when I think "Oh! I shouldn't take so and so with, they aren't going to like what I do here." But then, I do something they shouldn't be totally okay with, and they just stand there. Not saying anything. Not even flinching.

Bleachrude wrote...

Ironically David...I hope you realize people are going to complain about this change as well (you can't win...)

There were people that actually L:IKED the fact that the game informed you when major new dialogue was present versus having yo constantly check each and every time (which was annoying in ME1 and ME2). Unless you go the ME3 route where after EVERY mission, the companions have at least one to two lines of new banter.

That said..people complained about this in ME3 when I thought this was BRILLIANT. It actually encouraged me to go check out every companion after every mission since there was always something new to hear AND see (please, please let their be more inter-party companion interaction a la ME3)

^ I also agree with that 100%. It was sometimes like  a game of hide and seek tryingto find the companions to talk to them. I liked the poker game, or when they were interacting with others, and not just Shep after a mission when you went to talk to them.

Modifié par Jaulen, 24 décembre 2013 - 09:43 .

[David7204]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I'm 'making a fuss' because this necessitates scenes of far inferior cinematic quality.

The cinematic quality is irrelevant.  The cinematics add nothing to the game.

[werewoof]

David7204 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I'm 'making a fuss' because this necessitates scenes of far inferior cinematic quality.

The cinematic quality is irrelevant.  The cinematics add nothing to the game.

as much as i hate to agree with someone who uses a martin freeman gif, i will say that it's wrong to say cinematics add nothing to the game. they add a lot! i'm just more willing to forgive them if it means more dialogue and interaction with the characters i love. doesn't do anything for me if the game is really gorgeous with brilliant cinematic scenes, but about as deep as a puddle because you only have a few scripted intervals to talk to characters at. 

that being said i actually do want to see both. figure out a way to make the scenes where you chit chat with companions look decent without limiting you to specific plot points only. i fail to see where you're getting the impression that they couldn't do that. they could still script the conversations to be cutscenes, at the very least for the ones at wherever our bases will be. might not be the most brilliant cinematics of our time, but maybe that'd be enough for you. 

Modifié par tiktac, 24 décembre 2013 - 10:55 .

[Nightdragon8]

David Gaider wrote...

There are also no quests provided to alert you that a companion has a major conversation waiting. While those were intended as a convenience feature, some people evidently interpreted that as them being told to go and talk to the companion--and thus they felt they could only talk to a companion when the companion wanted. Which is perception only, sure, but what else is agency but perception? So the conversations are there for the player to discover, if they wish, short of the companion seeking them out on their own.

Umm I'm not sure if you played teh same gaem we did Gaider, because I couldn't just go into the Hanged man and talk to Verric or Isabella, or go t Meriells home and talk to her. All we would get was there standered one liners. At least thats all I have gotten. So they aren't wrong in thinking that way.

As for the quest marker thing meh. I think BW didn't realize that in games like this completionist like way they have to do everything. Also I think there was an EXP reward for doing it, not much but if there is still is experence then they will do it.

So its more of a "See quest marker, go to quest marker, do quest" sort of thing. You can blame MMOs for that one.

[KiwiQuiche]

David7204 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

And considering the clustercuss of DAI I think there will be many hugs needed, both for companion AND the PC

Such reactions need to be confined to certain (few) circumstances.

I agree- having a hug fest in the middle of a brawl would be odd. Even the convo with Anders, him complaining about Merrill/Fenris while bomb hunting was weird since you get into a fight upon exiting the conversation. So not instigating convos during a fight or in stupid situations- I always liked that about ME1 if you tried to talk to a compaion during a gun fight they would yell "now is not the time"

But with Marathari, there wasn't a fight or anything going on, just Merrill crying over her. It's even more uncomfortable if she's your LI and Hawke does nothing to comfort her- Hawke of all people would understand what its like to loose a mother.

[Sylvius the Mad]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Just curious--do you headcanon that the Archdemon never died?

I haven't.   I suppose I could.

Why do you ask?

[Sylvius the Mad]

David7204 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I'm 'making a fuss' because this necessitates scenes of far inferior cinematic quality.

The cinematic quality is irrelevant.  The cinematics add nothing to the game.

They offer no improvement in player agency.  They in no way enhance the ability to roleplay your character.  They offer no meaningful content at all that can't be provided in a less expensive way.

Simply turning off the cinematics and replacing everything with text descriptions would improve DA2 (and ME), in my eyes, and make it vastly cheaper to develop.

[thats1evildude]

I didn't much care about not being able to talk to companions anywhere because I rarely conversed with companions outside of camp in DAO anyway.

[draken-heart]

I would rather they have a combo of origins and ][. One where you can talk to companions anywhere, but new/important dialogue has to happen at camp/companion's home base.

[NRieh]

David Gaider:
....they felt they could only talk to a companion when the companion wanted. Which is perception only

But...that's what actually happens in game. There is a handful of one-liners, that you can hear clicking on your companion, but you can only initiate a talk when companion has some business aka 'quest'.

Of course, I understand that no game can fit in 7 years of real-time chats and events. So, I'm pretty sure, that myHawke could talk to Anders much more often (and, very likely, not just talk...).

Yet me (player) could only say something to companions during those cut-scenes, which were either 'accept quest - return quest' or some little 'aftermath' triggered by those quests (aka 'questioning beliefs'). Also, those cut-scenes were the only option to see companion-companion interaction (I mean SEE, not hear in party banters). That's not much like 'perception' to me, that's simple math.

Not to mention, that for those players, who do not headcanon, it's the _only_ available content.

Modifié par Nrieh, 25 décembre 2013 - 07:53 .

[FireAndBlood]

thats1evildude wrote...

I didn't much care about not being able to talk to companions anywhere because I rarely conversed with companions outside of camp in DAO anyway.

This. I understand wanting to talk to your companions at any time unlike ME3 and DA2 but I don't understand the appeal of talking to them in the midlle of the deep roads or some other random place.