27 réponses à ce sujet

[KBABZ]

I've noticed recently that nobody seems to have figured out the exact mechanics behind how long it takes for the Reaper IFF to be installed by EDI, which can put limitations on those who want to romance Tali, recruit Legion, and get the unique dialogue by bringing Legion along to Tali's Missions and save all of the crew at the Suicide Mission.

The only clue that I've figured out is that the minimum recquirement is to have completed all of the Dossier recruitment missions, but other than that the actual mathematics behind it haven't gotten nearly as much research put into them as the mechanics of the Suicide Mission or Priority: Earth, which to me is a real shame.

Anyone happen to know the mechanics, or where I could find it?

[cap and gown]

Basically, as long as you have an active loyalty mission in your journal you will not get the kidnapping for 2 missions following the acquisition of the IFF. This is how you can do Legion's loyalty mission, for example, without triggering the kidnapping. As long as you get a loyalty mission into your journal before going to the galaxy map then you will only get the kidnapping after two missions have gone by or you have no more loyalty missions outstanding.

For instance, you can pick up Tali's loyalty mission, get the IFF, do Tali's loyalty mission with Legion, get Legion's loyalty mission, and do it. Now the kidnapping will occur. Note that it is vital that you have a loyalty mission in your journal before using the galaxy map for this to work.

I have also been informed that at the conclusion of Legion's loyalty mission the next time you go to the galaxy map you will get the kidnapping whether or not his mission was the only one you have done and you still have another loyalty mission outstanding. This seems to be an exception to the two mission rule.

[RedCaesar97]

I just searched the Web using Google. From what I have read, the consensus seems to be that you have up to two missions between getting the Reaper IFF and having it installed, although I read a post that someone mentioned they had four.

So after completing the Derelict Reaper (Reaper IFF) mission, you have time for two missions. I believe this is dependent on the number of Primary Missions still open. So as long as at least one Primary Mission is still open, such as Tali's Loyalty Mission, then you have time to complete missions before the Reaper IFF is installed and the crew is abducted.

The only exception to this rule is if all Primary Missions (recruit and loyalty) were completed prior to retrieving the Reaper IFF. In this case, the Reaper IFF will be installed immediately after the Derelict Reaper unless you wake and talk to Legion, in which case you have one more mission you can complete before the Reaper IFF is installed.

[KBABZ]

Damn, so it sounds like rescuing all of the crew, bringing Legion to Tali's Loyalty Mission and locking in the romance with Tali will require careful planning! Thanks for the help guys. I'm currently playing through ME2 to test out how to meet my requirements, so this helps a lot.

I've just found out the hard way that you do not need to have all squad members in order to trigger the Suicide Mission. Here's who my latest attempt worked out:

• Went to Derelict Reaper without completing any Missions after Horizon, just Assignments (so no new squad members gained or Loyalty Missions completed) and picked up Legion. Decided to wake him at the end.
• Immediately went to Haestrom and recruited Tali.
• Picked up Legion's Loyalty Mission right after that.
• After completing Legion's Loyalty Mission, Reaper IFF was ready for installation.

What this resulted in is a contendor for one of the worst approaches to the Suicide Mission, with only Miranda, Jacob, Garrus, Grunt, Mordin, Jack, Legion and Tali on my squad. Could have been even worse had I sold Legion to Cerberus and not woken Grunt! It makes me wonder how that affects Mass Effect 3; if I had never met Samara, for example, would that mean she doesn't appear at the Ardat-Yakshi Monastary? Does Morinth appear in Priority: Earth? Seems to warrant an investigation for another time...

ADDENDUM: Worth noting that I went to Tali first and picked up her Loyalty Mission before accessing the Galaxy Map to find that the IFF was ready to be installed. So it seems that if the Loyalty Mission theory is correct, you need to have one open before going back to the Normandy for the game to not trigger the IFF immediately. As Mordin says, this requires more testing...

Modifié par KBABZ, 24 décembre 2013 - 04:02 .

[cap and gown]

I was in the situation you describe with Tali once but it worked out in the end:

IFF
Tali Loyalty w/Legion: post-mission dialogue about trial
Legion Loyalty: post-mission dialogue about linking suits
Galaxy Map-kidnapping: post-mission dialogue w/Tali setting up sexy time; also post-mission dialogue w/Mordin (very, very important!
Enter Omega 4 relay: sexy time!

[cap and gown]

KBABZ wrote...
with only Miranda, Jacob, Garrus, Grunt, Mordin, Jack, Legion and Tali on my squad.

What about Zaeed and Kasumi? The Zaeed DLC, at least, is free.

[KBABZ]

Oh yes, I had Zaeed and Kasumi, forgot about them. As far as I'm aware, though, they don't have any influence on story mechanics until the Suicide Mission (they don't count towards the Dossiers needed to trigger Horizon, for example).

I'm also trying to have Legion be present for Haestrom and Tali's Loyalty Mission, and have enough Missions left over after Tali's Loyalty Mission to romance her and not lose all of the crew once the Collectors board. This seems to be impossible as I would need a total of five Missions between picking up Legion and the IFF being ready for installation:

• One for picking up Tali from Haestrom after the Derelict Reaper
• Another as a stop-gap between recruiting Tali so as to pick up her Loyalty Mission
• Yet another to actually complete Tali's Loyalty Mission, which starts up the romance afterwards when talking to her
• One last one to 'lock in' the Romance and get maximum Cabin action

And that's not even getting into the post-Legion Loyalty Mission dialogue!

It's worth noting that in the scenario I just completed, I went to Tali first and picked up her Loyalty Mission before accessing the Galaxy Map to find that the IFF was ready to be installed. I also had Jacob, Miranda, Mordin, Grunt and Garrus' Loyalty Missions unlocked but not completed, so this debunks the Loyalty Mission theory unless it applies to post-Horizon squadmates.

Out of curiosity, how did people figure out the mechanics behind the Suicide Mission? Was it constant play-testing, or did someone look at the game code?

Modifié par KBABZ, 24 décembre 2013 - 04:17 .

[cap and gown]

You can still romance Tali post-SM. In fact, you can have multiple romances post-SM. Just keep doing missions to advance the dialogue.

[KBABZ]

cap and gown wrote...

You can still romance Tali post-SM. In fact, you can have multiple romances post-SM. Just keep doing missions to advance the dialogue.

Does that include a Cabin scene?

[cap and gown]

yes

[KBABZ]

Interesting; I always thought that only happened if you had the Suicide Mission for the "in case we all die" factor. Tell, how is the cabin scene triggered?

[cap and gown]

As soon as you exit the "lock-in" dialogue (assuming you agree to hook up) you get a loading screen that shows the elevator going up to Shepard's cabin, after which the scene plays out just like it would when you go through the Omega 4 relay. Only problem with this is you don't get a chance to talk to Mordin first and get his tips for interspecies sex.

[KBABZ]

Ahh okay. I'll consider that a cool but minor omission in this case. So it seems that the only problem left is that this romantic arc completion needs to be initiated by completing three Missions or Assignments afterwards.

[Xariann]

--------------- ME 3 SPOILERS -------------

As far as I know Morinth appears if:

1. You met her in ME 2
2. You DON'T do the Ardat-Yakshi mission in ME 3

Modifié par Xariann, 26 décembre 2013 - 08:57 .

[KBABZ]

Just finished my second test. I had every single post-Horizon Loyalty Mission active and no pre-Horizon ones (so Samara, Thane, Tali and Legion's), and the Reaper IFF was ready three Missions after picking up Legion, same as before. This has led me to believe that what triggers the Collector Boarding is not a timer from after picking up the IFF, but actually the acquisition of Legion's Loyalty Mission one mission after recruiting him (this would make sense as his Mission is related to the Reapers). The purpose of my next test is seeing if that is true or not. Luckily I made a save just before talking to Legion to acquire his Loyalty Mission, so it'll be less time-consuming.

[cap and gown]

My understanding is that Legion's LM triggers the kidnapping regardless.

[KBABZ]

cap and gown wrote...

My understanding is that Legion's LM triggers the kidnapping regardless.

So far only my first test has involved actually doing that Loyalty Mission. The second one had me picking it up but not actually attending to it; I did a Firewalker mission to tick over so I could grab Tali's Loyalty Mission after, and then the Reaper IFF was ready once I accessed the Galaxy Map after that. So both had the same sequence: pick up Loyalty Mission, do one Mission or Assignment of any kind, and then the Reaper IFF was ready.

My third test is to see whether that plays out reliably. If it does then I can confirm that it is picking up Legion's Loyalty Mission that sets the Mission/Assignment timer for the Collector Boarding, rather than the Derelict Reaper itself. I expect my hypothesis to be proven wrong, however.

[KBABZ]

Well I just completed test 3, and the Collector Boarding occured at the exact same time as tests 1 and 2: three Missions/Assignments after the Derelict Reaper Mission is completed. This is strange because it flies in the face of all the claims of the Collector Boarding occuring four or five Missions after, which has led me to believe that the trigger is related somehow to how many Missions/Assignments the player may have in their Journal at the time.

I doubt this is the case however because the sequence of events I have always encountered correlates to all three tests: three Missions/Assignments after the Derelict Reaper. This also means that it's impossible to bring Legion along to both Tali's Recruitment and Loyalty Missions; given one or the other I lean more toward the Loyalty Mission given the alternate dialogue that entails for Mass Effect 3.

It has again made me ponder why we know so much about the Suicide Mission mechanics and not the Collector Boarding mechanics.

Modifié par KBABZ, 28 décembre 2013 - 05:03 .

[cap and gown]

You can do either/both Tali's/Legion's loyalty after the SM. You don't need to have either or both loyal to have everyone survive if Kasumi does the vents.

[KBABZ]

I figured as much; with a full Paragon approach (which is what my guide tries to do most of the time) then the lack of Tali being loyal is easily compensated. I was trying to keep everything down to pre-Suicide Mission, I guess. I'll note that in the guide.

Still curious as to what the exact mechanics are, given the various reports people have made.

[RedCaesar97]

KBABZ wrote...
It has again made me ponder why we know so much about the Suicide Mission mechanics and not the Collector Boarding mechanics.

That has a simple answer: a lot people tested the mechanics of the Suicide Mission so that they could (a) keep everyone alive, or ( get a specific outcome.

As for the Collector Boarding mechanics, most players either try to recruit everyone and complete their loyalty missions before going to the Derelict Reaper (Reaper IFF). 

You seem to be unique in that you want to romance Tali and bring Legion to her loyalty mission, and get a bunch of other conversations done and whatnot.

If you want to discover the mechanics behind the Collector Boarding, go right ahead. For science!

[cap and gown]

Well, there is the unique scene you get if you do Tali's recruitment with Legion. And further uniqueness by bringing Legion to her trial. Trying to fit in the romance and loyalty missions with all of that before the kidnapping, though, is likely not possible.

Modifié par cap and gown, 28 décembre 2013 - 03:31 .

[KBABZ]

cap and gown wrote...

Well, there is the unique scene you get if you do Tali's recruitment with Legion. And further uniqueness by bringing Legion to her trial. Trying to fit in the romance and loyalty missions with all of that before the kidnapping, though, is likely not possible.

No, not unless you intentionally set aside two optional Assignments or Missions that aren't Tali: Treason to do after the Suicide Mission. The only thing you'd lose there is Mordin's Sex Ed talk, but considering the wealth of new dialogue brought about by bringing Legion along it's a small price to pay in my opinion.

RedCaesar97 wrote...

As for the Collector Boarding mechanics, most players either try to recruit everyone and complete their loyalty missions before going to the Derelict Reaper (Reaper IFF). 

You seem to be unique in that you want to romance Tali andbring Legion to her loyalty mission, and get a bunch of other conversations done and whatnot.

If you want to discover the mechanics behind the Collector Boarding, go right ahead. For science!

I'm a bit obsessive in trying to tease out the best scenario for getting unique dialogue, and I'm surprised that more players haven't figured it out. I do seem to have figured out the trigger, though; three Missions/Assignments after the Reaper IFF is acquired. Those who have reported four, five or more Missions/Assignments I'm assuming have either counted wrong or are in very unique circumstances that I won't bother trying to replicate as I'm not that dedicated to the cause at the moment. I have suspected though that it may be different depending on whether you're playing on PC, 360 or PS3.

Modifié par KBABZ, 28 décembre 2013 - 04:03 .

[cap and gown]

For PC players there is a way to get Legion right from the get-go. A thread discussing that is either in the ME2 spoilers forum, or the strategy and build forum. There is quite a bit of unique Legion dialogue not available to console players. (Well, I guess you can use gibbed to get it, at least for xbox, but I have never used it.)

[KBABZ]

Yeah I realized that too, but I'm not going to have my guide dabble into hacking the game. It's a shame though; between splitting the game down the middle due to 360 disc space and locking Legion to a Mission that sets a timer to the end of the game (if you want to keep all the crew alive), Bioware locked out a lot of potential dialogue opportunities. Would have been hell for my guide, of course, but still.