191 réponses à ce sujet

[Fredward]

Guns wrote...
If you cannot handle mature themes you should not be playing games rated for mature audiences. Perhaps you should try out the new Mario Bros. game?

Maturity ladies and gentlemen.

This is less about not being able to "handle" mature themes and more about how it would be going againt the lore to suddenly introduce these themes in a big way. Retcons everywhere. For sexism to be a major thing women  would have to lose their equal rights in the military, in politics and in religion. The entire Chantry would have to be rewritten. The two major political players we've seen/heard of (Anora and Celene) would either have to be reduced to figureheads or the stereotypical power behind the throne which Anora already was until recently. Homophobia would be easy enough to introduce I suppose, the Chantry could just start selling "the Maker took a man, not another man" as part of its claptrap but absolutely no mention of any such thing has been made in the previous two games, the books or the comics. They seem more inclined to sell celibacy as their schtick, ie man or woman you should only be devoted to the Maker.

So spare me. Your need for a world where you can feel all maturely dark and troubled doesn't overwrite the need for internal consistency.

[wolfhowwl]

JimboGee wrote...

If any of this were true, I would have been able to tell Anders to **** off because I don't like ****s. Sadly not wanting to offend ****s and Muslims and all the other groups you only have to look at before they scream for the police, is what has caused this nightmare. EA is terrified of offending anybody. You see boys and girls, you cant have it both ways. You either get rid of political correctness or you don't. You cant say its ok in a video game but not ok in real life.

Personally I'd be chuffed if EA allowed us to tell the little fudge packers get lost. Sadly the reality is another outcome. How's you're political correctness stance feeling after reading this? I'll pick my verbal warning/ban up in the morning.

EDIT: they even filtered out the use of the F word? Your chances are zilch. How about queers can I use the word queers?

There are much better reasons in the game to get rid of Anders than him being a ****.

Priorities.

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 24 décembre 2013 - 06:24 .

[Guns]

Ailith430 wrote...
I don't really see a lot of maturity in calling people derogatory names.

The adjective "mature" has a different meaning than the noun "maturity".

Foopydoopydoo wrote...
Maturity ladies and gentlemen.

This is less about not being able to "handle" mature themes and more about how it would be going againt the lore to suddenly introduce these themes in a big way. Retcons everywhere. For sexism to be a major thing women  would have to lose their equal rights in the military, in politics and in religion. The entire Chantry would have to be rewritten. The two major political players we've seen/heard of (Anora and Celene) would either have to be reduced to figureheads or the stereotypical power behind the throne which Anora already was until recently. Homophobia would be easy enough to introduce I suppose, the Chantry could just start selling "the Maker took a man, not another man" as part of its claptrap but absolutely no mention of any such thing has been made in the previous two games, the books or the comics. They seem more inclined to sell celibacy as their schtick, ie man or woman you should only be devoted to the Maker.

So spare me. Your need for a world where you can feel all maturely dark and troubled doesn't overwrite the need for internal consistency.

There are nations where Women are not allowed to fight; Antiva, Women being knights in Orlais, The Qunari nations, etc.. 

[AlexanderCousland]

Foopy you went overboard.

Sexism - throw in a "fix me a sandwich" or "thinking with your penis" type of dialogue, which already exists, and DA is aLready biased towards Female's.

Racism - "knife ear" "shem" sound familiar?

Homophobia - Non-Existent, but as a straight male, It would be nice to be able to tell someone to kick rock's in a harsh tone for getting the wrong Idea. I really dont want to name call or put down anyone's sexuality, but I should be able to let it be known that I don't associate myself with that lifestyle. To be clear, I think lgbt content should be included.

[Guns]

Check your privilege csi miami gendered scum

[Goneaviking]

A thread asking the developers to pander to a dwindling and increasingly irrelevant minority. I wonder if they appreciate the irony.

[Fredward]

FreshIstay wrote...

Foopy you went overboard.

Sexism - throw in a "fix me a sandwich" or "thinking with your penis" type of dialogue, which already exists, and DA is aLready biased towards Female's.

Racism - "knife ear" "shem" sound familiar?

Homophobia - Non-Existent, but as a straight male, It would be nice to be able to tell someone to kick rock's in a harsh tone for getting the wrong Idea. I really dont want to name call or put down anyone's sexuality, but I should be able to let it be known that I don't associate myself with that lifestyle. To be clear, I think lgbt content should be included.

I don't think you (or Guns) is getting it. I'm not saying sexism/homophobia (I'm not mentioning racism because it obviously exists) doesn't exist in Thedas, it does, it always will because people notice and categorize the "different." What I'm saying is that taking it further, institutionalizing it on a broader scale like it is/was in our world wouldn't make consistent, in-world sense. Nor am I even arguing that these things shouldn't be present in fantasy because that's ****ing stupid, I'm arguing that they aren't present in this setting. Not in a large, worldview altering way. Savvy?

Btw someone mentioned the Qunari being sexist, I'm not sure I'd agree with that. They don't value females less they value them differently. There's a difference. As for homophobia in both DAO and DA2 you can show confusion/bewilderment if another man comes on to you, do you want the option to tell him "no sorry morbid fear of ****s that aren't my own" too? Why? I don't see much of a problem with it I guess if you really feel the need but I don't see much point either.

[Paul E Dangerously]

Goneaviking wrote...

A thread asking the developers to pander to a dwindling and increasingly irrelevant minority. I wonder if they appreciate the irony.

Just as a side note, I love just exactly when the word "pandering" gets thrown around and when it isn't. If it's something Poster X likes it's "accessability" or "inclusivity" or some such. If they don't? Pandering!

Personally, I just wish they'd consider the game first and interest groups second. Never going to happen with the way major corporations work these days - and with the way Bioware/EA uses appealing to a particular fangroup as a weapon - but it would be refreshing.

[Guns]

Game companies should make games based on their core audience that are already fans and get new consumers by positive word of mouth, something that's a lot easier to do now with the internet. Trying to make a game for all different groups results in a pile of crap like Dragon Age 2, that just ****** off existing fans and don't work in converting a large amount over rpgs.

Modifié par Guns, 24 décembre 2013 - 07:16 .

[Goneaviking]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

A thread asking the developers to pander to a dwindling and increasingly irrelevant minority. I wonder if they appreciate the irony.

Just as a side note, I love just exactly when the word "pandering" gets thrown around and when it isn't. If it's something Poster X likes it's "accessability" or "inclusivity" or some such. If they don't? Pandering!

Personally, I just wish they'd consider the game first and interest groups second. Never going to happen with the way major corporations work these days - and with the way Bioware/EA uses appealing to a particular fangroup as a weapon - but it would be refreshing.

I was using the term ironicly. I've been on and off here enough to remember how often it got thrown out by people objecting to inclusion of same-sex romance options in previous games.

[Ailith Tycane]

Guns wrote...

Game companies should make games based on their core audience that are already fans and get new consumers by positive word of mouth, something that's a lot easier to do now with the internet. Trying to make a game for all different groups results in a pile of crap like Dragon Age 2, that just ****** off existing fans and don't work in converting a large amount over rpgs.

So by that logic, their main audience is absrudly homophobic, misogynistic straight white men, and they should make the game also as absurdly homophobic and misogynistic?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Ailith430 wrote...

Guns wrote...

Face of Evil wrote...

There is plenty of prejudice in Thedas without needing to inject homophobia or sexism.

JimboGee can go die in a fire.

If you cannot handle mature themes you should not be playing games rated for mature audiences. Perhaps you should try out the new Mario Bros. game?

I don't really see a lot of maturity in calling people derogatory names.

Exactly. In fact, I'd argue that Dragon Age is showing mature themes by having the characters being mature about these issues of predudice based on gender or sexual preference instead of how reality treats them. 

[Fredward]

Ailith430 wrote...
So by that logic, their main audience is absrudly homophobic, misogynistic straight white men, and they should make the game also as absurdly homophobic and misogynistic?

Well duh. That is, of course, what "mature" means. Just go with whatever everyone else is doing. Don't question the status quo. Grimdark. Manly chesthair. I am the 99%.

[Guns]

Ailith430 wrote...

Guns wrote...

Game companies should make games based on their core audience that are already fans and get new consumers by positive word of mouth, something that's a lot easier to do now with the internet. Trying to make a game for all different groups results in a pile of crap like Dragon Age 2, that just ****** off existing fans and don't work in converting a large amount over rpgs.

So by that logic, their main audience is absrudly homophobic, misogynistic straight white men, and they should make the game also as absurdly homophobic and misogynistic?

That was in reply to the two pandering comments above, not about to appealing "homophobic, misogynistic straight white men".

You do realize we don't actually have these views? At least I don't. I just want to be able be play a character in Thedas who is. See some of us actually role play in these games.

[Paul E Dangerously]

Ailith430 wrote...

Guns wrote...

Game companies should make games based on their core audience that are already fans and get new consumers by positive word of mouth, something that's a lot easier to do now with the internet. Trying to make a game for all different groups results in a pile of crap like Dragon Age 2, that just ****** off existing fans and don't work in converting a large amount over rpgs.

So by that logic, their main audience is absrudly homophobic, misogynistic straight white men, and they should make the game also as absurdly homophobic and misogynistic?

DAO was neither, and very few had a problem with that. Even places like 4chan or Reddit are generally fond of Origins.

It only becomes an issue once it's "sledgehammer to the head" level like with DA2, and even there some moments more than others. I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about Fenris, but Anders gets a lot of hate, and justifiably so. It's a clumsily written scene that pushes a male Hawke into a conversation with two flirt options and one negative, and said negative response is written and acted to make him sound as disgusted as possible. Factor in a rather hefty rivalry penalty, and is it any wonder some people were up in arms?

Not that Origins was perfect, mind. The Hespith/Branka thing always came off as a little unnecessary.

[Face of Evil]

"Hefty" Rivalry penalty my ass. I took the 10 points and still had Anders at full friendship by mid-Act 2.

Jesus Christ, are people EVER going to stop whining about this?

[Paul E Dangerously]

Face of Evil wrote...

"Hefty" Rivalry penalty my ass. I took the 10 points and still had Anders at full friendship by mid-Act 2.

Jesus Christ, are people EVER going to stop whining about this?

It's the principle of the matter. It's the only situation in the game I'm aware of that does this - any other friendship/rivalry changes are limited to actual events and things Hawke does (or does not do) as is intended. They aren't supposed to be like/dislike points like with Origins, but instead geared toward that character's cause or motivations.

[Nightwing99]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

Ailith430 wrote...

Guns wrote...

Game companies should make games based on their core audience that are already fans and get new consumers by positive word of mouth, something that's a lot easier to do now with the internet. Trying to make a game for all different groups results in a pile of crap like Dragon Age 2, that just ****** off existing fans and don't work in converting a large amount over rpgs.

So by that logic, their main audience is absrudly homophobic, misogynistic straight white men, and they should make the game also as absurdly homophobic and misogynistic?

DAO was neither, and very few had a problem with that. Even places like 4chan or Reddit are generally fond of Origins.

It only becomes an issue once it's "sledgehammer to the head" level like with DA2, and even there some moments more than others. I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about Fenris, but Anders gets a lot of hate, and justifiably so. It's a clumsily written scene that pushes a male Hawke into a conversation with two flirt options and one negative, and said negative response is written and acted to make him sound as disgusted as possible. Factor in a rather hefty rivalry penalty, and is it any wonder some people were up in arms?

Not that Origins was perfect, mind. The Hespith/Branka thing always came off as a little unnecessary.

i am interested to read why you thought that about Hespith/Branka came off a little unnecessary 

[Paul E Dangerously]

Nightwing99 wrote...
i am interested to read why you thought that about Hespith/Branka came off a little unnecessary

"So, Branka's gone off her rocker and has been turning what's left of her house into Darkspawn. Did I mention the women get fed Darkspawn flesh, and turned into horrible abominations to breed more Darkspawn? Oh, by the way, we were also lovers."

[werewoof]

"i hate political correctness" aka "i want to be able to make bigoted statements while dressing it up like i'm being rebellious"

not using the medieval setting as an excuse to shove in rampant homophobia, racism, and sexism isn't being politically correct, it's just not being a jackass. and also they'd want to keep it to a minimum anyways so it wouldn't affect gameplay too heavily.

now if they include those themes and frame them in such a way as to show that they're a problem, that's fine, because they're not trying to advocate those things, but just, portray how they affect people and even criticize them.

i don't even know what people think is "politically correct" here. not letting you play a complete bigot? acknowledging that people who aren't straight white males exist and actually do things? including a relationship canonically that isn't straight? oh the horror.

[Paul E Dangerously]

tiktac wrote...
i don't even know what people think is "politically correct" here. not letting you play a complete bigot?

They already do. There are plenty of times the Warden can mock/slander people. Like say, Andrastians.

Not what people usually mean when they say bigotry (ie, "against my views") but it is.

[werewoof]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

tiktac wrote...
i don't even know what people think is "politically correct" here. not letting you play a complete bigot?

They already do. There are plenty of times the Warden can mock/slander people. Like say, Andrastians.

Not what people usually mean when they say bigotry (ie, "against my views") but it is.

yeah that's what confuses me a bit here, too. you were able to play a bigot against...the groups that are typically oppressed in dragon age canon?

but some folks are hell bent on being able to be a bigot to groups that aren't even canonically oppressed in the game, just in real life. why yall so hard up to hate gay people and women in your game when there isn't even a canonical, narrative reason for it?

i get it if you want to play a character like that because you want to tell that kind of story or whatever, but you bring in groups that aren't even actually oppressed in thedas, only irl, and it comes off like you just want an excuse to be homophobic/sexist in game.

Modifié par tiktac, 24 décembre 2013 - 09:45 .

[Texhnolyze101]

Plaintiff is sooo going to rage at the OP lol

Modifié par 101ezylonhxeT, 24 décembre 2013 - 09:48 .

[wolfhowwl]

Plaintiff's rage will be have to be impotent as he was forcibly escorted off the premises by the mods.

[Texhnolyze101]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Plaintiff's rage will be have to be impotent as he was forcibly escorted off the premises by the mods.

He was banned?