191 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellion Rex]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Silfren wrote...

What you're refusing to get is that it wouldn't make any sense for your character to be homophobic in a world where no cultures are homophobic.  There is in-game precedent for prejudice between humans and elves, etc., but there is NO basis for homophobia within the world. 

I think I remember when you steal from Bann Darby's silversmith, if you try to insinuate he's gay he looks wrongfooted for a second, the guard laughs derisively, and the silversmith tells you to screw off. That's about as homophobic as it gets though.

I'm sorry, but who?

[daveliam]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

To be honest a person saying they want their character to be able to express a certain view or action because it is what their character would do is perfectly alright. Going in and telling them you aren't allowed to expess that view because my character wouldn't do that, despite the person talking about their own character and not the other persons, is the crazier part. More so because it's basically imposing one playstyle and mindset to everyone else and forcing them to conform to it, rather then presenting more varied options and letting you choose what to express, that is nuttier.

Also, "types of prejudice are present in our society" hasn't stopped players from demanding their character be anti-religious or atheist in a middle ages analouge where religious thought is highly dominant and crying foul when it doesn't happen all the time. I don't see why they should get to express disaproval at orginized religions just for being orginized religions and yet others can't express disaproval at aspects of people for similar reasons.

I completely agree with you that one person's playing style shouldn't dictate what is available for another.  I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy in stating that it's because it's "more realistic" for some reason, despite it not being "more realistic" in the actual game setting.  And, I'd be inclinedto agree with you about the religion, but not because it's based on medievel Europe, but because there isn't much precedent for athiesm in the game.  Except that there is a precedent for it because there are characters who express athiestic views in the game (like Morrigan).

[Veruin]

eluvianix wrote...

I'm sorry, but who?

Probably one of Slim Couldry's quests.

[Hellion Rex]

Veruin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

I'm sorry, but who?

Probably one of Slim Couldry's quests.

Yup. Never touched those.

[Zkyire]

tiktac wrote...

bless you silfren

its almost as if FreshIstay doesn't actually care about dragon age canon or their characters' narrative at all and is just looking for an excuse to be homophobic because they got all ickied out when anders hit on them, oh no

telling an npc you aren't into them? fine

telling an npc you aren't into them because of their gender? whatever

rudely telling an npc you aren't into them because they're being a creep or your character is just harsh? fine

specifically wanting to be disgusted by an npc's advances because of their gender despite no canon societal context to imply anything more than being slightly offput? transparent plea for an excuse to bash queer people in game 

I personally don't believe the franchise needs any more than what it has (maybe a tiny amount in specific, heated arguments or whatever) but mostly it's fine.

But as for the bolded, so what if he does want that? They're not people. They're fictional characters. People here keep going on about "role playing" their PC, well, what good is role playing if you can only role play a socially tolerant character without prejudice?

[Silfren]

Zkyire wrote...

tiktac wrote...

bless you silfren

its almost as if FreshIstay doesn't actually care about dragon age canon or their characters' narrative at all and is just looking for an excuse to be homophobic because they got all ickied out when anders hit on them, oh no

telling an npc you aren't into them? fine

telling an npc you aren't into them because of their gender? whatever

rudely telling an npc you aren't into them because they're being a creep or your character is just harsh? fine

specifically wanting to be disgusted by an npc's advances because of their gender despite no canon societal context to imply anything more than being slightly offput? transparent plea for an excuse to bash queer people in game 

I personally don't believe the franchise needs any more than what it has (maybe a tiny amount in specific, heated arguments or whatever) but mostly it's fine.

But as for the bolded, so what if he does want that? They're not people. They're fictional characters. People here keep going on about "role playing" their PC, well, what good is role playing if you can only role play a socially tolerant character without prejudice?

There's plenty of options for a PC to be socially intolerant.  Not having the option to be homophobic hardly rules that out, when you have the option as a human to be blatantly racist toward elves and as that or any other character to be intensely nationalistic and prejudiced against various groups.

[Iron Fist]

The writers have been incredibly intolerant of intolerant people. Shame on them. 

[werewoof]

Zkyire wrote...

tiktac wrote...

bless you silfren

its almost as if FreshIstay doesn't actually care about dragon age canon or their characters' narrative at all and is just looking for an excuse to be homophobic because they got all ickied out when anders hit on them, oh no

telling an npc you aren't into them? fine

telling an npc you aren't into them because of their gender? whatever

rudely telling an npc you aren't into them because they're being a creep or your character is just harsh? fine

specifically wanting to be disgusted by an npc's advances because of their gender despite no canon societal context to imply anything more than being slightly offput? transparent plea for an excuse to bash queer people in game 

I personally don't believe the franchise needs any more than what it has (maybe a tiny amount in specific, heated arguments or whatever) but mostly it's fine.

But as for the bolded, so what if he does want that? They're not people. They're fictional characters. People here keep going on about "role playing" their PC, well, what good is role playing if you can only role play a socially tolerant character without prejudice?

because there's no canon reason for these to be included in the game? if he wants to roleplay his character that way with his imagination, i guess that's his own business (even if i think it's still transparent and gross), but asking it to be included in the game despite it going against canon lore simply so he can have an excuse to be queerphobic in game is ridiculous. bioware isn't obliged to change their entire game canon to something that would undoubtedly be hurtful towards a good chunk of their fanbase just so a couple of straight dudes can "roleplay" characters who get their panties in a wad whenever a male character dares to hit on them. 

you can roleplay a bigoted character in other ways, you can roleplay a jerk, but there's no canon reason to roleplay a character that's queerphobic or at least, anything more than slightly put off by it. someone above me said something about word budgets and whatnot. why expend game resources on something that doesn't actually fit or make sense, just so that a couple dudebros can use it to yell at gay characters? 

i'm not saying he can't dislike a male character that hits on his character. i think it's queerphobic and crappy, but i can't control how he feels about his video games. he can roleplay it that way if he wants i guess. i'm just talking about him asking for it to actually be a game option despite there being no real reason for that.

Modifié par tiktac, 24 décembre 2013 - 08:32 .

[Shark17676]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

Nightwing99 wrote...
i am interested to read why you thought that about Hespith/Branka came off a little unnecessary

"So, Branka's gone off her rocker and has been turning what's left of her house into Darkspawn. Did I mention the women get fed Darkspawn flesh, and turned into horrible abominations to breed more Darkspawn? Oh, by the way, we were also lovers."

Two women fell in love off-screen.  I see nothing unusual about it.

Would it have been less "unnecessary" for you if Hespith was a man?

[Shark17676]

FreshIstay wrote...

Silfren wrote..

Casting my vote with the guy above you.  You keep trying to insist that your character can be against homosexuality without being homophobic.  That's not at all how it works.  Homophobia as a form of bigotry does not exist within Thedas, so individuals are not going to be against it the way you keep insisting, because whether you accept it or not, "I disapprove of this lifestyle" IS a form of homophobia.  People who grow up within cultures that don't care much about it aren't going to form that kind of opinion...they're going to not care.

You keep trying to turn my words into something else. And you can be against Homosexuality without being homophobic.
 

I stopped reading right there.  Report me if you want to for insulting you, but you deserve it.  That is the most ignorant, idiotic thing I've read all week.

[leaguer of one]

tiktac wrote...

Zkyire wrote...

tiktac wrote...

bless you silfren

its almost as if FreshIstay doesn't actually care about dragon age canon or their characters' narrative at all and is just looking for an excuse to be homophobic because they got all ickied out when anders hit on them, oh no

telling an npc you aren't into them? fine

telling an npc you aren't into them because of their gender? whatever

rudely telling an npc you aren't into them because they're being a creep or your character is just harsh? fine

specifically wanting to be disgusted by an npc's advances because of their gender despite no canon societal context to imply anything more than being slightly offput? transparent plea for an excuse to bash queer people in game 

I personally don't believe the franchise needs any more than what it has (maybe a tiny amount in specific, heated arguments or whatever) but mostly it's fine.

But as for the bolded, so what if he does want that? They're not people. They're fictional characters. People here keep going on about "role playing" their PC, well, what good is role playing if you can only role play a socially tolerant character without prejudice?

because there's no canon reason for these to be included in the game? if he wants to roleplay his character that way with his imagination, i guess that's his own business (even if i think it's still transparent and gross), but asking it to be included in the game despite it going against canon lore simply so he can have an excuse to be queerphobic in game is ridiculous. bioware isn't obliged to change their entire game canon to something that would undoubtedly be hurtful towards a good chunk of their fanbase just so a couple of straight dudes can "roleplay" characters who get their panties in a wad whenever a male character dares to hit on them. 

you can roleplay a bigoted character in other ways, you can roleplay a jerk, but there's no canon reason to roleplay a character that's queerphobic or at least, anything more than slightly put off by it. someone above me said something about word budgets and whatnot. why expend game resources on something that doesn't actually fit or make sense, just so that a couple dudebros can use it to yell at gay characters? 

i'm not saying he can't dislike a male character that hits on his character. i think it's queerphobic and crappy, but i can't control how he feels about his video games. he can roleplay it that way if he wants i guess. i'm just talking about him asking for it to actually be a game option despite there being no real reason for that.

He has a point. I personally don't want to act like a bigot but I can understand someone's want to roloplay as one.

[Silfren]

Shark17676 wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Silfren wrote..

Casting my vote with the guy above you.  You keep trying to insist that your character can be against homosexuality without being homophobic.  That's not at all how it works.  Homophobia as a form of bigotry does not exist within Thedas, so individuals are not going to be against it the way you keep insisting, because whether you accept it or not, "I disapprove of this lifestyle" IS a form of homophobia.  People who grow up within cultures that don't care much about it aren't going to form that kind of opinion...they're going to not care.

You keep trying to turn my words into something else. And you can be against Homosexuality without being homophobic.
 

I stopped reading right there.  Report me if you want to for insulting you, but you deserve it.  That is the most ignorant, idiotic thing I've read all week.

I don't think there's anything to report, personally.  You attacked what they wrote, not them personally.  Of course, whether they will agree is another matter...

[Silfren]

leaguer of one wrote...

tiktac wrote...

because there's no canon reason for these to be included in the game? if he wants to roleplay his character that way with his imagination, i guess that's his own business (even if i think it's still transparent and gross), but asking it to be included in the game despite it going against canon lore simply so he can have an excuse to be queerphobic in game is ridiculous. bioware isn't obliged to change their entire game canon to something that would undoubtedly be hurtful towards a good chunk of their fanbase just so a couple of straight dudes can "roleplay" characters who get their panties in a wad whenever a male character dares to hit on them. 

you can roleplay a bigoted character in other ways, you can roleplay a jerk, but there's no canon reason to roleplay a character that's queerphobic or at least, anything more than slightly put off by it. someone above me said something about word budgets and whatnot. why expend game resources on something that doesn't actually fit or make sense, just so that a couple dudebros can use it to yell at gay characters? 

i'm not saying he can't dislike a male character that hits on his character. i think it's queerphobic and crappy, but i can't control how he feels about his video games. he can roleplay it that way if he wants i guess. i'm just talking about him asking for it to actually be a game option despite there being no real reason for that.

He has a point. I personally don't want to act like a bigot but I can understand someone's want to roloplay as one.

No, he really doesn't.  He's asking for Bioware to throw out its existing canon to accomodate his personal desire to be queerphobic, to use Tiktac's word, and it seems quite apparent, to me at least, that he's asking for it because he wants to project his personal views into the game.  And he keeps trying to assert that a statement of "I don't find homosexuality acceptable" is somehow not homophobic even though it rather clearly is.

Modifié par Silfren, 24 décembre 2013 - 08:44 .

[Veruin]

Silfren wrote...

No, he really doesn't.  He's asking for Bioware to throw out its existing canon to accomodate his personal desire to be queerphobic, to use Tiktac's word, and it seems quite apparent, to me at least, that he's asking for it because he wants to project his personal views into the game.  And he keeps trying to assert that a statement of "I don't find homosexuality acceptable" is somehow not homophobic even though it rather clearly is.

Is there not a difference between having to like something and actively suppressing it?

[Silfren]

Veruin wrote...

Silfren wrote...

No, he really doesn't.  He's asking for Bioware to throw out its existing canon to accomodate his personal desire to be queerphobic, to use Tiktac's word, and it seems quite apparent, to me at least, that he's asking for it because he wants to project his personal views into the game.  And he keeps trying to assert that a statement of "I don't find homosexuality acceptable" is somehow not homophobic even though it rather clearly is.

Is there not a difference between having to like something and actively suppressing it?

Point, missing it.

Someone who is not homophobic is someone who is not going to care about homosexuality one way or the other.  The minute you have an ideological problem with it, you ARE homophobic, period.  Just like there's more to racism than membership in the KKK, racist slurs, and burning crosses, there's more to homophobia than stoning people and voting against equal marriage rights.

And only a fool would somehow try to claim that having an ideological problem with it somehow doesn't lead to that person trying to suppress it, even if it's a passive suppression and not an active one.

Modifié par Silfren, 24 décembre 2013 - 08:54 .

[Toasted Llama]

daveliam wrote...

Gender is a social construct.  You are talking about biological sex.  Those are two different concepts.

Though I've seen plenty of people throw away biological sex as well because they think anything beyond genitals is constructed by society. Wrong wording perhaps, but my original point still stands.
As soon as someone says something among the lines of "women are less likely to fight because they are not as strong as men" you get thrown the "that's not true and made by society to opress women!" card.





Aaaanyway, back to topic: considering people have pulled this card on the restricted romances forum:

Why would anyone care how someone plays in their playthroughs? If someone wants to play as a homophobic, why should you care? Just because YOU don't want to play as a homophobic person doesn't mean it should be completely left out of the game

[Zkyire]

tiktac wrote...
because there's no canon reason for these to be included in the game? if he wants to roleplay his character that way with his imagination, i guess that's his own business (even if i think it's still transparent and gross), but asking it to be included in the game despite it going against canon lore simply so he can have an excuse to be queerphobic in game is ridiculous. bioware isn't obliged to change their entire game canon to something that would undoubtedly be hurtful towards a good chunk of their fanbase just so a couple of straight dudes can "roleplay" characters who get their panties in a wad whenever a male character dares to hit on them. 

you can roleplay a bigoted character in other ways, you can roleplay a jerk, but there's no canon reason to roleplay a character that's queerphobic or at least, anything more than slightly put off by it. someone above me said something about word budgets and whatnot. why expend game resources on something that doesn't actually fit or make sense, just so that a couple dudebros can use it to yell at gay characters? 

i'm not saying he can't dislike a male character that hits on his character. i think it's queerphobic and crappy, but i can't control how he feels about his video games. he can roleplay it that way if he wants i guess. i'm just talking about him asking for it to actually be a game option despite there being no real reason for that.

So your character can be an absolute sadistic, racist, murdering scumbag, but he's not allowed to not like gay people?

How do gay people watch tv shows with homophobic characters? Do they accept that it's fictional? Or do they "get their panties in a wad" as you say?

[Veruin]

Zkyire wrote...

How do gay people watch tv shows with homophobic characters? Do they accept that it's fictional? Or do they "get their panties in a wad" as you say?

Depends where you live.  In America, just about everyone gets their panties in a wad.

[L. Han]

Most people today do not want to rock the boat, deviate into any unique path. Same goes for the BioWare team and any team.

Well, maybe a few.

[Zkyire]

Silfren wrote...
And only a fool would somehow try to claim that having an ideological problem with it somehow doesn't lead to that person trying to suppress it, even if it's a passive suppression and not an active one.

It really, really does not.

I have an "idealogical problem" with a certain real-world religion. But I have not, am not and will not partake in any "suppression" of that belief system.

Modifié par Zkyire, 24 décembre 2013 - 09:00 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

eluvianix wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Silfren wrote...

What you're refusing to get is that it wouldn't make any sense for your character to be homophobic in a world where no cultures are homophobic.  There is in-game precedent for prejudice between humans and elves, etc., but there is NO basis for homophobia within the world. 

I think I remember when you steal from Bann Darby's silversmith, if you try to insinuate he's gay he looks wrongfooted for a second, the guard laughs derisively, and the silversmith tells you to screw off. That's about as homophobic as it gets though.

I'm sorry, but who?

Yeah, this is one of Slim's quests. You've never touched them? Really? Honestly, he's my favorite NPC in the game.

The Mad Hanar wrote...

I am of the belief that if you want to tell a mature story, then you can't act like your world is some sort of fantasy land where everyone loves everybody.

I could have told you after one playthrough that that's not the way Thedas is. Just the same, homophobia isn't really necessary for this. People in Thedas already have enough hatred for each other, trust me on that.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 24 décembre 2013 - 09:03 .

[Angrywolves]

eluvianix wrote...

Veruin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

I'm sorry, but who?

Probably one of Slim Couldry's quests.

Yup. Never touched those.

I always do those.They're enjoyable.

Would be interesting to see if Slim shows up in DAI.
He might make a good agent.

[Silfren]

Zkyire wrote...

Silfren wrote...
And only a fool would somehow try to claim that having an ideological problem with it somehow doesn't lead to that person trying to suppress it, even if it's a passive suppression and not an active one.

It really, really does not.

I have an "idealogical problem" with a certain real-world religion. But I have not, am not and will not partake in any "suppression" of that belief system.

Oh, but it absolutely does.  Or do you think that a parent expressing an ideological problem with homosexuality doesn't have a profound effect on their gay child? 

Modifié par Silfren, 24 décembre 2013 - 09:01 .

[spirosz]

This will go places.