217 réponses à ce sujet

[NeonFlux117]

StreetMagic wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

Renegade Shepard is hilarious. He's an ends justify the means type of guy. I can see where some might allude to the perceptive that Paragon Shepard is "bland", but really, Renegade Shep is where it's at. Except for killing wrex. I can't do that. But everything else is good stuff.

Wrex always gets me with that line.. "I followed because I wanted to fight for something more than credits."

Yeah, the whole Virmire convo with him is really good. As is the renegade talk down-again you need a bit of intimidate points for it, or just do the family armor thing. 

But yeah. I couldn't kill wrex. I couldn't manipulate Mordin and/or kill him. I guess I saved the data in ME2- Isn't that a paragon action??? 

Still tho, I was renegade with everything else. But I can't kill wrex. That would make me sick. 


I had no problem killing Samara tho. But she kinda annoyed me. I like Morinth. She's my type of functioning sociopath  and plus she even tried to kill Nihlus.... you don't kill Nihlus Saren payed the ultimate price for that one, lulz. 

Modifié par NeonFlux117, 26 décembre 2013 - 07:04 .

[dreamgazer]

I enjoyed the challenge of RPing a truly balanced Shepard: my 45/55 "renegon" engineer, Cid.

He's far from bland.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 26 décembre 2013 - 07:25 .

[Farangbaa]

dreamgazer wrote...

I enjoyed the challenge of RPing a truly balanced Shepard: my 45/55 "renegon" engineer, Cid.

He's far from bland.

Right now I'm playing a Shepard that goes Paragon on all the 'big choices'  (Rachni Queen, saving the colonists, talk down Wrex, etc) but goed Renegade for pretty much everything else.

It's a pretty awesome Shepard that way, I must say.

(I always take the freebies, btw, paragon or renegade)

[Remix-General Aetius]

we have nothing to be excited about. what, a couple of random screenies from a crap angle? that supposed to be excitin'?

no trailer, no gameplay vid, no real info, no proper screenies, no nothing.

[Linkenski]

If the premise is "al-out war" again, I'm out. It's just not interesting. "The final days of First Contact" however could have some interesting interaction between Aliens and Humans however but I'd also like to see something on a smaller scale, and something that isn't written by Single-Minded Mac.

[Nightwriter]

I am hopeful of the idea that they are either getting new writers in or that some of the good writers from before are being given more power.

Kind of a blind hope considering as a fan I'll never know who was responsible for all the writing calls I found devastating before and all the writing calls I found laudable before, but I'll keep at it nonetheless.

[Dean_the_Young]

[quote]iakus wrote...

[quote]Dean_the_Young wrote...

How you get 'remove all the moral conflict of the endings' from that, I don't know. I suppose it's because there's not enough wailing by the credits about how immoral Shepard acting (or not) with limited options, and so the lack of some karmic devastator is an insult to your morality. Or something.[/quote]

Because Bioware bent over backwards (to hilarious extremes at time) to make every option the "right" option.  Virtually all moral ambiguity is removed in EC.
[/quote]You're dodging the question- How?

The costs intended, moral and practical, are still what was intended. Synthetics die in Destroy. Reaper domination in Control. ??? optimism after biological edititing for Synthesis.

You've certainly tilted against all of these more than enough that the only way these are 'right' is that they solve the Reaper threat. Which was always the case.


[quote]
[quote]
Nothing... so long as you acknowledge that it's head canon, and stop trying to treat it as canon or trying to push your headcanon as the canon for everyone else.[/quote]

WTF are you talking about?  I'm suggesting that if Bioware is going to take a "this particular timeline" option to the next game, go with one that's not canon for anybody.  And ending no one can achieve, so no one can claim favoritism![/quote]
A 'no canon at all canon' is not a particular timeline from the canon. Your proposal, on the other hand, conveniently matches up with your previously and often stated desire for MEHEM-compatible head-canon.

MEHEM, and the other post-ME3 headcanon scenarios in which the Crucible effects are not the potential Crucible effects, are the WTF of yours that I oppose.

[quote][quote]

Because some of us don't beleive to reducto ad absurdum fallacies?[/quote]

Not sure if serious or troll [/quote]You tell us- you're the one who made the fallacy.
[quote]
[quote]
 The reason not to ignore everyone's choices is resources and a desire to maintain a degree of narrative cohesion, and that limited carryover has become a hat of Bioware's. The reason to ignore some choices is limited resources and excessive divergence.

[/quote]

Given the endings, trying to maintain narrative cohesion is impossible.  [/quote]Not if you pick an ending and go with it.

[quote]
Heck, cohesion left the building as soon as Shepard got to choose if the genophage was cured or not. [/quote]Not really. Especially in a post-relay galaxy, marginalizing the role of the Krogan to a marginal presence and role is pretty easy regardless of genophage choice. Same with the Geth/Quarians, who were small and/or isolationist anyway.

[quote] There are simply too many possible permutations for the state of the galaxy.  Bioware couldn't keep track of a dozen characters being alive or dead.  [/quote]Except, they did. You just weren't satisfied with it.

Of course, you're also ignorring that a lot of the possible permutations of the galaxy are neatly handled or made containable by picking an ending and applying a time skip.

Of course, if you don't think it can be done, I'd be happy to provide demonstrative examples in the context of a post-Destroy galaxy for you.

[quote]
So I say scrap it all.  EIther make it so vague pretty much anyone's headcanon will fit into it, or pick a noncanon ending to make "canon" But dont' try to shoehorn all the possible galactic states the trilogy created.  

[/quote]Not shoehorning all possible galactic states would go directly against making it so vague all canon, and head canon, will fit into it.

You're trying to have it both ways. I'm not interested in throwing out a perfectly functional setting simply to indulge in your head canon fantasies- I'd find that even more disregarding of playing the franchise than picking a Crucible choice and running with it.

[Iakus]

[quote]Dean_the_Young wrote...

[/quote]You're dodging the question- How?

The costs intended, moral and practical, are still what was intended. Synthetics die in Destroy. Reaper domination in Control. ??? optimism after biological edititing for Synthesis.

You've certainly tilted against all of these more than enough that the only way these are 'right' is that they solve the Reaper threat. Which was always the case.[/quote]

You've been here long enough to know better, but it looks like I'll have to repeat them yet again:

Nobody acknowledges or cares that all synthetics in the galaxy die.
It's portrayed as a "good" thing that the SHepalyst is around to "guide" the other races (though at least renegade Shepalyst sounds like it'll kick the **** of anyone who disagrees)
Everyone is shiny, happy people in Synthesis with no one at all upset that someone violated their genetic code.

Nope.  Everyone is happy, safe, and content with no qualms about SHepard's chocie.


[quote]
A 'no canon at all canon' is not a particular timeline from the canon. Your proposal, on the other hand, conveniently matches up with your previously and often stated desire for MEHEM-compatible head-canon.

MEHEM, and the other post-ME3 headcanon scenarios in which the Crucible effects are not the potential Crucible effects, are the WTF of yours that I oppose.[/quote]

Your blind hatred of MEHEM and other forms of head canon is clouding your judgement.

Did I not just propose a situation in which no canon, not even head canon, is compatible with whatever comes next?



[quote]
Not if you pick an ending and go with it.[/quote]

And I just said pick an ending that's not on the list.  Canonizing one of the original endings is just going to lead to cries of favoritism.  Making Udina the Councilor and creating the breeder queen was bad enough.  And those weren't even true canonizings of chocies

[quote]
Not really. Especially in a post-relay galaxy, marginalizing the role of the Krogan to a marginal presence and role is pretty easy regardless of genophage choice. Same with the Geth/Quarians, who were small and/or isolationist anyway. [/quote]

You can do that for one game maybe.  But this would have to be forever.  All Mass Effect games that follow.  No krogan, geth, quarians, etc.  You really think fans will stand for that?

[/quote]Except, they did. You just weren't satisfied with it.[/quote]

:lol:

Oh, I complained far, far less about that than many others here.  I'd say how they handled teh ME2 squad is one of my minor complaints

[quote]
Of course, you're also ignorring that a lot of the possible permutations of the galaxy are neatly handled or made containable by picking an ending and applying a time skip. [/quote]

You mean trivializing the choice?  Sure, they can go the ME1-ME2 route.  Probably won't be appreciated though

[quote]
Of course, if you don't think it can be done, I'd be happy to provide demonstrative examples in the context of a post-Destroy galaxy for you.[/quote]

How about anyone who doesn't want a post-Destroy galaxy to be canonized?  They do exist.  And some of them aren't even MEHEM fans.  Some actually like Control or Synthesis.  Or even ::gasp::  REFUSE!

[quote]
Not shoehorning all possible galactic states would go directly against making it so vague all canon, and head canon, will fit into it.

You're trying to have it both ways. I'm not interested in throwing out a perfectly functional setting simply to indulge in your head canon fantasies- I'd find that even more disregarding of playing the franchise than picking a Crucible choice and running with it.

[/quote]

No, I'm not trying to have it both ways.  I'm trying to have it at one extreme or the other.  The setting is wrecked, whether you like the chcoies or not.  You either have to canonize a chcoice, p*ssing off anyone who chose differently.  Or you have to  mush them all together to a pont where it doesn't matter what tehy chose, it all turned out the same anyway, thus trivializing it.

I say either ignore the choice entirely, or create an outcome nobody could achieve.  EIther way, leave the trilogy behind.

Modifié par iakus, 26 décembre 2013 - 02:40 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

dreamgazer wrote...

I enjoyed the challenge of RPing a truly balanced Shepard: my 45/55 "renegon" engineer, Cid.

He's far from bland.

Ditto. My Machiavellian True Neutral Soldier, John Sheploo, is one of the most interesting characters in fiction, IMO, and I wouldn't have been able to make him if not for the great challenge of RPing. 

And I still smirk at posts deriding Shepard as an incompetent idiot militarily. Armchair warriors at their finest.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 26 décembre 2013 - 03:40 .

[AlanC9]

NeonFlux117 wrote...

But yeah. I couldn't kill wrex. I couldn't manipulate Mordin and/or kill him. I guess I saved the data in ME2- Isn't that a paragon action??? 

I looked up a gameplay vid. There's a paragon option where Shepard says "this data is tainted," but that isn't the decision point. The decision point actually has four options. It looks like destroying the data happens in the two Renegade choices, and both Paragon choices keep it.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...
Did I not just propose a situation in which no canon, not even head canon, is compatible with whatever comes next?

I must have missed something. What did you propose, again? I don't really see how you can rule out all headcanon since the IT guys are so inventive, but I guess it's conceivable you've pulled it off. How have you ruled out MEHEM? Is Bio supposed to declare Shepard dead? I still wouldn't particularly like the option, but you'd rack up some intellectual integrity points.

How about anyone who doesn't want a post-Destroy galaxy to be canonized?  They do exist.  And some of them aren't even MEHEM fans.  Some actually like Control or Synthesis.  Or even ::gasp::  REFUSE!

Control and Synthesis fans don't typically display the rabid intolerance of Destroy fans. And Refuse fans get a sequel; since they destroyed the MEU themselves their sequel is a blank screen.

The setting is wrecked, whether you like the chcoies or not.  You either have to canonize a chcoice, p*ssing off anyone who chose differently.  

Choosing differently isn't enough. You'd also need to be an entitled whiner.

Modifié par AlanC9, 26 décembre 2013 - 05:13 .

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

I must have missed something. What did you propose, again? I don't really see how you can rule out all headcanon since the IT guys are so inventive, but I guess it's conceivable you've pulled it off. How have you ruled out MEHEM? Is Bio supposed to declare Shepard dead?

Either:

1) Keep everything completely vague.  Don't eleiminate any races that could be wiped out (Heck, keep Kar'Shan around) basically move along as if there was no war, only making vague references to it that doesn't specify any choice the player might have made.  The only "canonical" detail is Shepard saved the galaxy.

I'd even go so far as to say the krogan survived but the genophage is still in place, the geth and quarians survived, but no peace was brokered (the geth still hold Rannoch)

or

2) Have the Reaper War, but give it it's own canon which the player would not be able to achieve in ME3.  Essentially there is a canon, but it's not one we can achieve.  Think KOTOR2 where the Exile is canonically female but had the Handmaiden as one of her companions.  Only to a much greater degree.

Control and Synthesis fans don't typically display the rabid intolerance of Destroy fans. And Refuse fans get a sequel; since they destroyed the MEU themselves their sequel is a blank screen.

Given Destroy fans greatly outnumber Control and Synthesis fans, I'd say you're playing the odds.

As for Refuse fans, your own intolerance towards them is...telling...

Choosing differently isn't enough. You'd also need to be an entitled whiner.

Either big choices like the ending matter, or they don't matter.  you can't have it both ways.  If you canonize an ending, chocies don't matter.  If you trivialize the ending, the choice doesn't matter.  Either way, players have every right to be angry since their chocie won't matter going forward.

My suggestions are both variations of starting anew. 

[Iakus]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Who cares about what people cry about? Seriously.

Tears=lost sales

[Abraham_uk]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Who cares about what people cry about? Seriously.

Lots of people.
The people doing the crying for one.
Anyone with invested interests regarding the people doing the crying.
Anyone just merely interested in what the people are crying about.
Any journalist who is writing a story about the people doing the crying.
Anyone annoyed about the people crying.
Anyone with the same grieviances as the people crying.
Also anyone who asks questions like "who cares about what people cry about"?


Sorry. I will give you credit for this.
It was a good question, even if it was asked in a rhetorical manner.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 26 décembre 2013 - 05:15 .

[Sebby]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

I enjoyed the challenge of RPing a truly balanced Shepard: my 45/55 "renegon" engineer, Cid.

He's far from bland.

Ditto. My Machiavellian True Neutral Soldier, John Sheploo, is one of the most interesting characters in fiction, IMO, and I wouldn't have been able to make him if not for the great challenge of RPing. 

And I still smirk at posts deriding Shepard as an incompetent idiot militarily. Armchair warriors at their finest.

I fail to see how Shepard is any better than Marcus Fenix or Master Chief, Shepard's "plan" usually consists of "go here and shoot everything" and the few things that are more complex than that like his plan of attack against the Tuchanka Reaper are very simplistic.

[ruggly]

TipsLeFedora wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

TipsLeFedora wrote...

If the follow the same philosophy as DA:I then I will be excited.

What do yah mean?

Multiple races,more reactivity from the classes and enviroments and the psuedo open world. I think it would be grand if they did that.

That would be pretty nice.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Seboist wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

I enjoyed the challenge of RPing a truly balanced Shepard: my 45/55 "renegon" engineer, Cid.

He's far from bland.

Ditto. My Machiavellian True Neutral Soldier, John Sheploo, is one of the most interesting characters in fiction, IMO, and I wouldn't have been able to make him if not for the great challenge of RPing. 

And I still smirk at posts deriding Shepard as an incompetent idiot militarily. Armchair warriors at their finest.

I fail to see how Shepard is any better than Marcus Fenix or Master Chief, Shepard's "plan" usually consists of "go here and shoot everything" and the few things that are more complex than that like his plan of attack against the Tuchanka Reaper are very simplistic.

Master Chief is a pretty bright dude actually, at least as written in The Fall of Reach + sequels.

[Abraham_uk]

Ome6ablak wrote...

Who is excited for the next Mass Effect game and why?

Although i had some issues with the entire trilogy, I very much enjoyed the universe that was created by Bioware. I hope that they incorporate all the great things from all 3 games and combine it into one. The exploration of the first game (peoople and planets), the squad building of the second (but without having to do a loyalty mission in order to gain an ability. That was silly!), and the action of the third game.

What are you excited for?

I you want me to come up with loads of ideas, I shall.
I have plenty of them.

I don't think any of my ideas will make it. I'll just have the satisifaction of having come up with them.


Now regarding Mass Effect 4, I just want to see more Mass Effect.
That is it.

More of the Mass Effect universe.
More adventures.
More new locations.
More new stories to be told.
Brand new characters.
Places to explore.
Tough decisions to make.
New information to add to the Universe's lore.
New codex entries.



No more Commander Shepard.
Commander Shepard recieved 3 games.

The Grey Warden only had one game.
Hawke The Champion of Kirkwall only had one game.
The Inquisitor will probably only have one game.

I enjoyed Grey Warden and Hawke, but I have no desire to see them in future games.
I enjoyed Commander Shepard, but I have no desire to see Shepard in future games.

Give us something new. Perhaps we'll be able to pick other races. I have no desire to play a Human anymore.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

1) Keep everything completely vague.  Don't eleiminate any races that could be wiped out (Heck, keep Kar'Shan around) basically move along as if there was no war, only making vague references to it that doesn't specify any choice the player might have made.  The only "canonical" detail is Shepard saved the galaxy.

I'd even go so far as to say the krogan survived but the genophage is still in place, the geth and quarians survived, but no peace was brokered (the geth still hold Rannoch)

Well,  the latter would rule out MEHEM by ruling out ME3 itself. The former would not.

2) Have the Reaper War, but give it it's own canon which the player would not be able to achieve in ME3.  Essentially there is a canon, but it's not one we can achieve.  Think KOTOR2 where the Exile is canonically female but had the Handmaiden as one of her companions.  Only to a much greater degree.

Again, works because ME3 itself is ruled out. OK, these two pass.

Control and Synthesis fans don't typically display the rabid intolerance of Destroy fans. And Refuse fans get a sequel; since they destroyed the MEU themselves their sequel is a blank screen.

Given Destroy fans greatly outnumber Control and Synthesis fans, I'd say you're playing the odds.

I'm just a typical Control fan myself. Control's a better outcome for the galaxy, but it's not appreciably better for a sequel than Destroy. (My ideal sequenl environment is Destroy with the relays still wrecked, but I think that's too unlikely to discuss.) I'm not a fan of the rabid intolerance of the Destroyers, but since I'm indifferent on the substance picking a fight would be absurd. Actually, my impression is that a plurality of Control and Synthesis fans favor a Destroy-based sequel on the merits.

As for Refuse fans, your own intolerance towards them is...telling...

It's not intolerance. If I didn't tolerate fools, I couldn't read this board.

Choosing differently isn't enough. You'd also need to be an entitled whiner.

Either big choices like the ending matter, or they don't matter.  you can't have it both ways.  If you canonize an ending, chocies don't matter.  If you trivialize the ending, the choice doesn't matter.  Either way, players have every right to be angry since their chocie won't matter going forward.

My suggestions are both variations of starting anew. 

Don't be ridiculous. You're not suggesting carrying the trilogy choices forward any more than I am. The choices don't matter either way, in the sense you're using "matter." Either way, your trilogy Shepard probably lived in a different MEU from the one ME4 will be set in. The difference is that this is always true with your plan. My preferred ME4 is a future that a Shepard could have created, while yours is not.

[RogueBot]

I'm pretty hopeful for ME4 and I'm looking forward to it. ME3's ending was objectively bad, IMO, but not worth flipping out over.

The thing is, I'm so used to being disappointed by sci-fi and fantasy stories that I've become numb to it. In comparison to The Phantom Menace, the Matrix sequels, Spider-Man 3, etc., ME3's ending is nothing.

At least the rest of the game was pretty darn good. It wasn't like DA2, where you recycle the same 5 environments over the course of a 30-40 hour game, completely destroying any sense of exploration and creating a sense of claustrophobia.

Judging by DA: Inquisition's development cycle compared to DA2's, Bioware's capable of learning from their mistakes, too (whether they'll admit their mistakes publicly or not), so I'm hopeful for ME4.