217 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

Don't be ridiculous. You're not suggesting carrying the trilogy choices forward any more than I am. The choices don't matter either way, in the sense you're using "matter." Either way, your trilogy Shepard probably lived in a different MEU from the one ME4 will be set in. The difference is that this is always true with your plan. My preferred ME4 is a future that a Shepard could have created, while yours is not.

You are right in that I'm not suggesting carrying forward the choices.  However, your suggestion of canonizing an outcome that could have been created in ME3 will lead to outcries of favoritism and far more complaints that "chocies don't matter" than my own suggestion, which levels the playing field for everyone:

Everyone's ending is equal.  Nobody gets a "canonical" outcome.  Nobody's ending is the "Bioware pet"

And FWIW, a Destroy ending with the relays wrecked comes very close to what I am suggesting, since it's not an outcome that can be achieved (short of a low EMS ending, which is not what you mean, I believe)  But it probably comes too close to "classic" Destroy.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Don't be ridiculous. You're not suggesting carrying the trilogy choices forward any more than I am. The choices don't matter either way, in the sense you're using "matter." Either way, your trilogy Shepard probably lived in a different MEU from the one ME4 will be set in. The difference is that this is always true with your plan. My preferred ME4 is a future that a Shepard could have created, while yours is not.

You are right in that I'm not suggesting carrying forward the choices.  However, your suggestion of canonizing an outcome that could have been created in ME3 will lead to outcries of favoritism and far more complaints that "chocies don't matter" than my own suggestion, which levels the playing field for everyone:

Everyone's ending is equal.  Nobody gets a "canonical" outcome.  Nobody's ending is the "Bioware pet"

And FWIW, a Destroy ending with the relays wrecked comes very close to what I am suggesting, since it's not an outcome that can be achieved (short of a low EMS ending, which is not what you mean, I believe)  But it probably comes too close to "classic" Destroy.

Still, this strikes me more of a "If I can't have what I want, no one can" sort of mentality.

If anything, choices don't matter is a greater issue with your option, because now Bioware is ignoring all four ending possibilities. That doesn't go away because they decide to say no to all four groups.

To put it another way, if you're okay with Bioware ignoring all four endings, why can't they ignore three endings and describe the one they choose as an alternate universe? Or simply choose  the setting they see the most potential for in more stories?

[His Name was HYR!!]

StreetMagic wrote...

I just want to know a premise. They could even break it down to seven or eight words, and I'd be fine. I don't really care for all the secrecy and "entire franchise being up in limbo" thing. Not exactly the best foot to get started on.

Agreed. I want to determine whether or not it sounds like an adventure I want to embark on to get excited.

Screenshots won't cut it. Video trailer? Mayyyybe.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Seboist wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

I enjoyed the challenge of RPing a truly balanced Shepard: my 45/55 "renegon" engineer, Cid.

He's far from bland.

Ditto. My Machiavellian True Neutral Soldier, John Sheploo, is one of the most interesting characters in fiction, IMO, and I wouldn't have been able to make him if not for the great challenge of RPing. 

And I still smirk at posts deriding Shepard as an incompetent idiot militarily. Armchair warriors at their finest.

I fail to see how Shepard is any better than Marcus Fenix or Master Chief, Shepard's "plan" usually consists of "go here and shoot everything" and the few things that are more complex than that like his plan of attack against the Tuchanka Reaper are very simplistic.

And what exactly is your detailed critique?

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...
You are right in that I'm not suggesting carrying forward the choices.  However, your suggestion of canonizing an outcome that could have been created in ME3 will lead to outcries of favoritism and far more complaints that "chocies don't matter" than my own suggestion, which levels the playing field for everyone:

Everyone's ending is equal.  Nobody gets a "canonical" outcome.  Nobody's ending is the "Bioware pet"

(So you're just trying to keep these other players happy, and it's a side effect that one of your personal problems with the endings gets erased in the process? If you say so.)

This would be a fair point if I thought there was a was a serious problem. I don't. RPG series have picked canon before and people dealt with it. They would again. Perhaps we'll get lucky and some of the entitled whiners will ragequit before release, though I suppose that's too much to hope for.

Edit: I don't really understand the supposed mindset here. Some players will be happy if nobody gets a sequel that matches one of their endings, but will be furious if any player gets a sequel that does?

And FWIW, a Destroy ending with the relays wrecked comes very close to what I am suggesting, since it's not an outcome that can be achieved (short of a low EMS ending, which is not what you mean, I believe)  But it probably comes too close to "classic" Destroy.

There's nothing in-game that says how fast the relays will be repaired in Destroy, if they ever will.

Modifié par AlanC9, 26 décembre 2013 - 06:04 .

[AlanC9]

StreetMagic wrote...

If it's this hard to maintain a great sci-fi setting, then they should just torch it. Anyone who can't keep this going ****ing sucks. It writes itself.

edit: Sorry, just sort of musing on all of these disputes about the endings.

It shoudln't be this difficult to keep Mass Effect going.

It isn't difficult. iakus is just trying to pretend that it is.

Modifié par AlanC9, 26 décembre 2013 - 05:59 .

[Ghost Lightning]

In honesty, it wouldn't be at all difficult to just leave out references to the previous games. If it could cause potential problems in continuity and setting, just don't include it.

[Ghost Lightning]

Morocco Mole wrote...

You don't need to mention every single choice made.

But you do need to mention major things like the endings, the quarian and geth, and the genophage.

Well that would depend on when they set the game. If they go with hundreds or even thousands of years after ME3, those things can be mentioned as smaller or even passing references. Which might be for the best.

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

(So you're just trying to keep these other players happy, and it's a side effect that one of your personal problems with the endings gets erased in the process? If you say so.)

Did I ever deny that?  I have not.  But just because it "fixes" (for lack of a better term) a problem for me doesn't mean what I have said is untrue.

This would be a fair point if I thought there was a was a serious problem. I don't. RPG series have picked canon before and people dealt with it. They would again. Perhaps we'll get lucky and some of the entitled whiners will ragequit before release, though I suppose that's too much to hope for.

Bioware embracing the whole import business has created a gamechanger.  "Picking a canon" is now a lot more problematic.  Just look at "councilor Udina"  I know you were playing DA2.  Are you aware of how much controversy centered around Anders?

Edit: I don't really understand the supposed mindset here. Some players will be happy if nobody gets a sequel that matches one of their endings, but will be furious if any player gets a sequel that does?

Look at the crew roster in ME3 and tell me there were no cries of favoritism.

There's nothing in-game that says how fast the relays will be repaired in Destroy, if they ever will.

I said wrecked, not damaged.  And Destroy heavilly implies they will be repaired in fairly short order.

Modifié par iakus, 26 décembre 2013 - 06:37 .

[BaladasDemnevanni]

iakus wrote...

Look at the crew roster in ME3 and tell me there were no cries of favoritism.
.

Still, I'd be careful about taking too much from that. If the complaining that went on these forums was an indication, when ME2 launched, I would have thought it was hated by every RPG fan in the galaxy.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...
Did I ever deny that?  I have not.  But just because it "fixes" (for lack of a better term) a problem for me doesn't mean what I have said is untrue.

Sure. But when someone has a reason for believing a position that has nothing to do with the substantive merits of the position, it's not great for credibility. You're better off if Bio swallows this argument even if the argument is b.s. 

Bioware embracing the whole import business has created a gamechanger.  "Picking a canon" is now a lot more problematic.  Just look at "councilor Udina"  I know you were playing DA2.  Are you aware of how much controversy centered around Anders?

Unless ME4 will import saves, how is this an issue? And the substance of your position is that Bio should ignore ME3, so if this is a gamechanger it's no better for your argument.

Look at the crew roster in ME3 and tell me there were no cries of favoritism.

I didn't mean to imply that  we don't have entitled whiners. I only meant that they should be ignored. Like the people whining about Leliana on the DA:I board.

I said wrecked, not damaged.  And Destroy heavilly implies they will be repaired in fairly short order.

I didn't get the memo about how fast they would be repaired. The only characters we see returning to their homeworlds have centuries of life ahead of them.

Modifié par AlanC9, 26 décembre 2013 - 07:24 .

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

Sure. But when someone has a reason for believing a position that has nothing to do with the substantive merits of the position, it's not great for credibility. You're better off if Bio swallows this argument even if the argument is b.s. 

Then I should just sit down and shut up just because I like my own idea?  I'm not even arguing the merits that benefit me personally, as that's beside the point!

Unless ME4 will import saves, how is this an issue? And the substance of your position is that Bio should ignore ME3, so if this is a gamechanger it's no better for your argument.

It's an issue if it canonizes an ending that's achieveable in-game.  It makes that decision the "right" one and everyone else chose "wrong"

And I'm saying that Mass Effect 1, 2, and 3 should remain a standalone trilogy.  There should be neither a save import nor a canon outcome of the choices in it.

I didn't get the memo about how fast they would be repaired. The only characters we see returning to their homeworlds have centuries of life ahead of them.

And it's Hackett, a human and not exactly a spring chicken, who is talking about how everything they lost and more will be rebuilt.

Modifié par iakus, 26 décembre 2013 - 07:32 .

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...
Then I should just sit down and shut up just because I like my own idea?  I'm not even arguing the merits that benefit me personally, as that's beside the point!

Doesn't benefit you? Must I dig up the multiple posts where you said that you have no further interest in the MEU if the existing endings remain real? You've been saying that for months.

Which means that this...

And I'm saying that Mass Effect 1, 2, and 3 should remain a standalone trilogy.  There should be neither a save import nor a canon outcome of the choices in it.

... is in your personal interest, and quite obviously so. You need the existing endings retconned out, and this does precisely that. It's better at solving your problem that the problem you're purporting to solve.

Anyway, I'm not trying to deter you from making such arguments. That's not possible. Just adding grains of salt as needed.

And it's Hackett, a human and not exactly a spring chicken, who is talking about how everything they lost and more will be rebuilt.

But rebuilt when?

Modifié par AlanC9, 26 décembre 2013 - 08:33 .

[Sebby]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

iakus wrote...

Look at the crew roster in ME3 and tell me there were no cries of favoritism.
.

Still, I'd be careful about taking too much from that. If the complaining that went on these forums was an indication, when ME2 launched, I would have thought it was hated by every RPG fan in the galaxy.

RPG fans (ie not LARPers) don't consider ME2 anymore of an RPG than Gears of War or Doom(which are better games than it btw).

[Sebby]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Ghost Lightning wrote...

Well that would depend on when they set the game. If they go with hundreds or even thousands of years after ME3, those things can be mentioned as smaller or even passing references. Which might be for the best.

The choices at the end of ME3 will be effecting the galaxy for generations. And let's not forget that there are two species who are incredibly long lived

Four including Geth and Reapers.

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

And I'm saying that Mass Effect 1, 2, and 3 should remain a standalone trilogy.  There should be neither a save import nor a canon outcome of the choices in it.

... is in your personal interest, and quite obviously so. You need the existing endings retconned out, and this does precisely that. It's better at solving your problem that the problem you're purporting to solve.

Yiup, you got me.  I'm advocating a position that I like rather than one I think would damage the franchise.  

Guilty, your Honor!

Though for your information, my position isn't to retcon out the endings, as to leave the endings as endings.   Not yet another divergence that will be clumsily brought together into a single canon.

Anyway, I'm not trying to deter you from making such arguments. That's not possible. Just adding grains of salt as needed.

I like my position.  Duly noted. 

 But rebuilt when?

As I said, given that it's an older human sounding so optimistic (way more optimistic than Low EMS Hackett) I think the implication is that it'll happen within his lifetime.

[Iakus]

Morocco Mole wrote...

I like that choosing a canon ending is somehow damaging to the franchise.

In a franchise that stresses "no canon" you eman?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

"Admiral Gerrel to the Geth fleet. The Citadel has opened. Is our weapon ready?"

Geth Prime: "Affirmative Admiral."

Daro'Xen: "We must make haste and fire it at the Citadel Ring before the Crucible docks!"

Tali (from Earth): "This is Admiral Tali'Zorah vas Normandy. Call off your assault! Commander Shepard is on the Citadel."

Gerrel: "Belay that order! The Geth assure us this weapon will destroy the Reapers."

Geth Prime: "We are in position."

Xen: "I am ready, Admiral."

Gerrel: "Fire!"

All quarian and geth ships target a point on the Citadel Ring with a Purple beam. It reaches the ring just in the nick of time. All the reapers in the galaxy grind to a halt and explode. Commander Shepard was caught in the purple beam and became a legend, and takes a 1/4 second gasp of air somewhere in London. Was Shepard found? Possibly. Could be found if Bioware needs Shepard again. Or not. Maybe Shepard has amnesia and is now a construction worker, but has dreams about his/her waifu, Liara.

End result: the quarians and the geth blew up the reapers.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Morocco Mole wrote...

I like that choosing a canon ending is somehow damaging to the franchise.

Well personally, I think the franchise should just end period, but that's just me. These kinds of stories really aren't sustainable for long. Too much branching stories and characters, etc.

Not that it's a bad thing. Just that your story in Mass Effect probably isn't my story and vice versa.

I'd rather continue my story on my own for my own purposes.

[Dean_the_Young]

iakus wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

I like that choosing a canon ending is somehow damaging to the franchise.

In a franchise that stresses "no canon" you eman?

Since when has there been no canon? Has Shepard not always been a Human N7 marine, and the first human spectre? Didn't we always end up with a multi-racial council, Councilor Udina, and Shepard surviving the Suicide Mission? Doesn't Cerberus always get their cybernetics and indoctrination technology from the Collector Base?

There has always been a canon, and canonical options and paths through the variables. The story has always been within the scope of what the writers provided for, ie the canon, and has always operated under the direction of the writers. Not the players.