76 réponses à ce sujet

[Inprea]

Now I'm not talking about the circle system or anything along those lines so just leave that out. What I'm talking about is the constant whispering of the demons to the mage. I believe it has been mentioned before that it's too easy for the players to just ignore this aspect of being a mage as they never have to experience it to the same degree an actual mage would experience. So any ideas for how the players could be made to actually experience this struggle?

A few ideas.

The first that comes to mind is a required attribute level. It's said that a mage's willpower is what lets them resist the call of a demon so perhaps if a mage lets their willpower fall too far behind their magic attribute they become posessed as they have too much magical power and not enough willpower. The required willpower to resist could also go up based on the situation. The closer a mage is to death the harder it is for them to resist.

I've experience something similar to this in other games. In Vampire bloodlines your vampire is in constant danger of going into a blood frenzy based on how badly injured you are and how much blood you have. A high willpower score let you suffer more damage without going crazy but there was always a risk. I rather enjoyed the mechanic but it did lead me to boost up my willpower alot simply to remove the fear of frenzy. For those not familiar with the world of darkness a blood frenzy is when a vampire goes crazy gets a massive boost to all physical attributes and will feed on the first available target within reach. So the first unlucky sob they see is dead.

The second one I can think of is a quick time event. A mage must be constantly mindful of the demons and not to fall to them. Well it's not like a demon is going to tell you when it's going to try to tempt or trick you. Thus the player must be constantly watching for an indicator. Now this could add some real difficulty depending on how tough the event was and that may be the problem. I believe it may chase some people away from playing a mage as they wouldn't want to actually have to be observant and prepared to resist temptation.

The third seems rather costly but another option would be the player has to avoid being tricked. One notion could be that the player character wakes up in a dream that seems real. Now the player must figure there way out but their are several ways out. If they go the wrong way they end up being posessed. This could work real well with a love interest. Perhaps there would be a seen before the LI accepts the players affection where the LI comes into their room to talk to them though it's actually a demon and the mage is dreaming. If the character doesn't figure it out, the player goes down the wrong dialogue path, they get posessed.

Any other ideas on how the player might be made to experience the temptations of demons that wouldn't be too easy for the player to simply shrug off?

[andy6915]

So you want a bunch of needless gimmicks that do nothing but cause frustration. No.

Modifié par andy69156915, 24 décembre 2013 - 02:36 .

[Inprea]

andy69156915 wrote...

So you want a bunch of needless gimmicks that do nothing but cause frustration. No.

No. I want the experience of playing a mage to be as true to the lore as possible rather then plot armor protecting the player from every form of difficulty associated with being a mage.

[andy6915]

And I want to play as a class without having to deal with bull****. I shouldn't be forced to deal with a bunch of gimmicky garbage just because you want gameplay sticking to canon so closely that it's annoying. Should we start giving archers limited arrows too? Rogues given limited flasks? Templar specializations needing to drink tons of lyrium potions or go into bad withdraws? I'll take plot armor that makes the game and class more actually fun to play over this nonsense ANY DAY.

[Inprea]

andy69156915 wrote...

And I want to play as a class without having to deal with bull****. I shouldn't be forced to deal with a bunch of gimmicky garbage just because you want gameplay sticking to canon so closely that it's annoying. Should we start giving archers limited arrows too? Rogues given limited flasks? Templar specializations needing to drink tons of lyrium potions or go into bad withdraws? I'll take plot armor that makes the game and class more actually fun to play over this nonsense ANY DAY.

Good for you. I however don't care about what you want. Thanks for bumping the thread though and keeping it on the front page a little longer.

[Ieldra]

How would you deal with the fact that according to lore, failure means basically "game over"?

[Angrywolves]

I don't want the game so realistic that I have to worry about my mage being seduced by demons and having to constantly take steps to counter it.
That's too much time and effort when there's other things I would rather be focused on.Sorry.

[andy6915]

Ieldra2 wrote...

How would you deal with the fact that according to lore, failure means basically "game over"?

Easy, you get a gameover. That's how I read the OP. Willpower doesn't get leveled at the same rate as magic=lots of random quicktime events that come out of no where, failure to make the QTE=gameover. Or it makes you get lost in a Fade segment that is like a maze, and wrong turn or picking the wrong dialogue with a fake NPC=gameover. The bigger a gap between magic and willpower, the more either happen. So you would get gameovers for things completely unrelated to fighting because "lore"... Which is, again, a horrible idea.

Modifié par andy69156915, 24 décembre 2013 - 04:34 .

[Secretlyapotato]

andy69156915 wrote...

Inprea wrote...

Good for you. I however don't care about what you want. Thanks for bumping the thread though and keeping it on the front page a little longer.

Oh good, you're an ass as well as someone who comes up with terrible ideas. Great combination. By the way, I'll be shocked if even a single person agrees with this idea as being a good one. Expect just about every response to be similar to mine.

You're rude.

[andy6915]

Secretlyapotato wrote...

You're rude.

The thing about me is, my rudeness is in direct correlation to how stupid I think someone is being or how stupid an idea is. My rudeness shows what I think of this idea.

Modifié par andy69156915, 24 décembre 2013 - 04:37 .

[Reaverwind]

andy69156915 wrote...

And I want to play as a class without having to deal with bull****. I shouldn't be forced to deal with a bunch of gimmicky garbage just because you want gameplay sticking to canon so closely that it's annoying. Should we start giving archers limited arrows too? Rogues given limited flasks? Templar specializations needing to drink tons of lyrium potions or go into bad withdraws?

Gimmicky garbage? Implementing resource management helps with both RP AND game balance. For too long, this kind of thing has been outright cut from games claiming to be RPG's.

[andy6915]

Reaverwind wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

And I want to play as a class without having to deal with bull****. I shouldn't be forced to deal with a bunch of gimmicky garbage just because you want gameplay sticking to canon so closely that it's annoying. Should we start giving archers limited arrows too? Rogues given limited flasks? Templar specializations needing to drink tons of lyrium potions or go into bad withdraws?

Gimmicky garbage? Implementing resource management helps with both RP AND game balance. For too long, this kind of thing has been outright cut from games claiming to be RPG's.

resource management=keep 1 stat at the same exact level or above another (willpower over magic) at all times or have to randomly deal with QTEs from no where or sudden loads to another area where where you have to play a maze mini game, and you get a gameover if you fail either.

Really? This is resource management? Sounds like "gimmicky" is the perfect word to me.

Modifié par andy69156915, 24 décembre 2013 - 04:59 .

[Iakus]

 I like the idea in principle, but It would be tricky to implement without making things overly complicated.  Probably why lyrium addiction was never implemented into DAO.

But I do think the game could use some sort of demonstration to the palyer just how dangerous the life of a mage is. Simply playing as an Amell, or a Hawke seems to deonstrate that a mage is Cursed with Awesome

But a mage is supposed to be Blesssed with Suck

[TeamLexana]

Sounds like a totally different type of game in op, so no thanks. Maybe a stand alone with Mage being the only class available but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

[Inprea]

Ieldra2 wrote...

How would you deal with the fact that according to lore, failure means basically "game over"?

Well as Wolves mentioned it would mean a game over in most cases. As typically when a mage is posessed that means their life is over. The exception perhaps being the Rivani Seers and cases like Anders. Well and perhaps a case like Connor's which was a strange one.

Now I would prefer if failure did indeed result in a game over but perhaps instead of that your companions could save you. There could however be side affects of them doing so. Such as the mage could suffer a permenant reduction to their spellpower due to the chunk of their being that the demon cost them. 

Such things are off topic though. I wanted to start up a conversation about how bioware could let the player experience their character being in dangers of being posessed. It is suppose to be a constant threat in the life of every mage but we as the player never experience that part of being a mage. What would you do to add this missing aspect of being a mage into the game or do you prefer if it's an unseen threat only influencing none player characters?

Modifié par Inprea, 24 décembre 2013 - 05:09 .

[Red Panda]

Reaverwind wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

And I want to play as a class without having to deal with bull****. I shouldn't be forced to deal with a bunch of gimmicky garbage just because you want gameplay sticking to canon so closely that it's annoying. Should we start giving archers limited arrows too? Rogues given limited flasks? Templar specializations needing to drink tons of lyrium potions or go into bad withdraws?

Gimmicky garbage? Implementing resource management helps with both RP AND game balance. For too long, this kind of thing has been outright cut from games claiming to be RPG's.

By that logic we should require players to sleep, eat, drink, and bathe regularly in game.

Eating would include minigames and quicktime events to avoid choking.


Drinking would include events so you don't spill it on yourself and damage the look of your armor.


Not sleeping means you become a one hit wonder who does one point of damage to enemies only.

Bathing prevents all your party members from leaving.





No offense, but there's a good reason why such things were cut. It doesn't help to have your game be as intuitive as a nuclear submarine's control panel. I'm glad that age of RPGs is basically dead and gone.


Complexity=/=Depth

[TeamLexana]

You do realize Mage isn't the only class available in the game right?

[Reaverwind]

andy69156915 wrote...

Reaverwind wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

And I want to play as a class without having to deal with bull****. I shouldn't be forced to deal with a bunch of gimmicky garbage just because you want gameplay sticking to canon so closely that it's annoying. Should we start giving archers limited arrows too? Rogues given limited flasks? Templar specializations needing to drink tons of lyrium potions or go into bad withdraws?

Gimmicky garbage? Implementing resource management helps with both RP AND game balance. For too long, this kind of thing has been outright cut from games claiming to be RPG's.

resource management=keep 1 stat at the same exact level or above another (willpower over magic) at all times or have to randomly deal with QTEs from no where or sudden loads to another area where where you have to play a maze mini game, and you get a gameover if you fail either.

Really? This is resource management? Sounds like "gimmicky" is the perfect word to me.

I don't agree with the OP's suggestions on how to change the mage experience - although I do agree it should be changed. However, removing unlimited ammo, limiting flasks, and adding the requirement for lyrium ingestion are all ideas that should be implemented. I do seem to remember that Bioware has stated that they're looking into ways to removing some of that plot armor for mages - it will definitely be interesting to see what they've come up with.

[Arllekin]

unless it's implemented a viable way to continue the game with a possessed character or a way to replace him ( that goes for the main character ), i don't see this mechanic working.

[Red Panda]

Reaverwind wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

Reaverwind wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

And I want to play as a class without having to deal with bull****. I shouldn't be forced to deal with a bunch of gimmicky garbage just because you want gameplay sticking to canon so closely that it's annoying. Should we start giving archers limited arrows too? Rogues given limited flasks? Templar specializations needing to drink tons of lyrium potions or go into bad withdraws?

Gimmicky garbage? Implementing resource management helps with both RP AND game balance. For too long, this kind of thing has been outright cut from games claiming to be RPG's.

resource management=keep 1 stat at the same exact level or above another (willpower over magic) at all times or have to randomly deal with QTEs from no where or sudden loads to another area where where you have to play a maze mini game, and you get a gameover if you fail either.

Really? This is resource management? Sounds like "gimmicky" is the perfect word to me.

I don't agree with the OP's suggestions on how to change the mage experience - although I do agree it should be changed. However, removing unlimited ammo, limiting flasks, and adding the requirement for lyrium ingestion are all ideas that should be implemented. I do seem to remember that Bioware has stated that they're looking into ways to removing some of that plot armor for mages - it will definitely be interesting to see what they've come up with.

No offense to the original poster, but a more moderate approach sounds a lot better.

[Fast Jimmy]

It the DA team did a game that had the PC be a Mage regardless, I could see this type of concept incorporated into the game to be something interesting to see. But given that the game allows you to choose class means this is tricky, if not outright impossible, to successfully do in a way that doesn't alienate gamers or make the Mage class feel as if it is the "special" class.

As is, Mages are nerfed in gameplay in accordance with the lore anyway. You can rain down fire that will burn all your enemies... which does just as much damage as a warrior slamming his sword on the ground, or a rogue using a dagger while leaping out of the shadows... that incongruency has to be present or else the Mage class would need a downside so dramatic as to make the game require some huge level of juggling that one class alone. Which leads us back to our original problem, of the Mage class becoming the "special" class.

[Inprea]

OperatingWookie wrote...
No offense to the original poster, but a more moderate approach sounds a lot better.

None taken. Those were just three ideas. I was hoping to get some others. Though it seems people are more focused on the three suggestions I made rather then making ones of their own.

[Angrywolves]

Players feel the game will be challenging enough without overly complicating matters.

[Jugo616]

Also make rogue stealth as an actual hiding behind objects and stuff. Ranged classes should aim manualy. No crosshair. Poisoned caracters should get the antidote in a set time or game over. And we should eat and drink at regular intervals. Also all caracters should sleep for atleast 8 hours a night. And if you go to the Black Pearl you should have a 20percent chance to get AIDS and die. Game over.

[LOLandStuff]

And if your character goes to sleep for 8 hours, console or PC should be on, else it doesn't count and no fast-forward either.