76 réponses à ce sujet

[Gorkanus]

Ok when you stop being ironic Call Me, well Maybe.
Just question how many of you are from USA ?

[Angrywolves]

Jugo616 wrote...

Also make rogue stealth as an actual hiding behind objects and stuff. Ranged classes should aim manualy. No crosshair. Poisoned caracters should get the antidote in a set time or game over. And we should eat and drink at regular intervals. Also all caracters should sleep for atleast 8 hours a night. And if you go to the Black Pearl you should have a 20percent chance to get AIDS and die. Game over.

well said and an appropriate response.

[Fetunche]

The constant threat of demon possession is just Chantry hype. The Tevinter imperium seems to manage without a demon invasion every other day. DAI already has enough unnecessary busy work added with the lack of health regen, resource micromanagement, crafting and the weapon and armour wearing out and needing repair. I would like an engaging story and fun gameplay not homework.

[Magdalena11]

I would be interested in knowing what lore says that mages are subject to demonic whispers all the time. Can you cite a source or is it your belief?

I believe that after the Harrowing, the only time a mage would normally encounter a demon would be in the fade. I think the games already provide enough opportunity to allow players to listen to demons or turn them down. DAO had the mage origin harrowing and Connor's desire demon and DA2 had the Night Terrors quest line, just off the top of my head.

If you're going to ask for more challenges for mages, rogues should have to solve a puzzle every time they pick a lock or disarm a trap and warriors should have to specifically target weak points manually with every combat. Just saying....

[Jorji Costava]

Jugo616 wrote...

Also make rogue stealth as an actual hiding behind objects and stuff. Ranged classes should aim manualy. No crosshair. Poisoned caracters should get the antidote in a set time or game over. And we should eat and drink at regular intervals. Also all caracters should sleep for atleast 8 hours a night. And if you go to the Black Pearl you should have a 20percent chance to get AIDS and die. Game over.

The difference between these concerns and the one about mage possession is that the former aren't particularly relevant to any of the central story lines or themes, while mage possession obviously is relevant to the mage/templar conflict, since it's supposed to be the main motivation for the existence of Templars. If mage PC never has to deal with possession in any way shape or form, then there's a danger that the game could fall into the trap of too much telling, not enough showing, where possession is something we're constantly told is bad but never have to experience for ourselves. Meanwhile, there are limits to the effectiveness of constantly showing other mages getting possessed, as DA2 illustrated.

At the end of the day, it might be better to address this sort of thing with a sidequest or two rather than a persistent game mechanic. Losing the game because you got possessed as a result of failing a sidequest doesn't seem anywhere near as frustrating as constantly having to deal with the threat of auto-failure whenever certain conditions are met.

[Angrywolves]

osbornep said:

"At the end of the day, it might be better to address this sort of thing with a sidequest or two rather than a persistent game mechanic. Losing the game because you got possessed as a result of failing a sidequest doesn't seem anywhere near as frustrating as constantly having to deal with the threat of auto-failure whenever certain conditions are met."

acceptable.

[AltanIV]

Magdalena11 wrote...

I believe that after the Harrowing, the only time a mage would normally encounter a demon would be in the fade. I think the games already provide enough opportunity to allow players to listen to demons or turn them down. DAO had the mage origin harrowing and Connor's desire demon and DA2 had the Night Terrors quest line, just off the top of my head.

That. Although, I'd prefer the fade phase to be more like the ones in DAO than the one in DA2. 

You could as well have surprise fade phase. Like your camp was attacked once or twice in DAO. Where you would actually be "dreaming" but as a mage you see your dream differently than you would if you were a warrior or a rogue and you understand the fade for what it is.

[Sylvius the Mad]

No quick-time events. Ever. Not one, under any circumstances.

[Inprea]

osbornep wrote...

Jugo616 wrote...

Also make rogue stealth as an actual hiding behind objects and stuff. Ranged classes should aim manualy. No crosshair. Poisoned caracters should get the antidote in a set time or game over. And we should eat and drink at regular intervals. Also all caracters should sleep for atleast 8 hours a night. And if you go to the Black Pearl you should have a 20percent chance to get AIDS and die. Game over.

The difference between these concerns and the one about mage possession is that the former aren't particularly relevant to any of the central story lines or themes, while mage possession obviously is relevant to the mage/templar conflict, since it's supposed to be the main motivation for the existence of Templars. If mage PC never has to deal with possession in any way shape or form, then there's a danger that the game could fall into the trap of too much telling, not enough showing, where possession is something we're constantly told is bad but never have to experience for ourselves. Meanwhile, there are limits to the effectiveness of constantly showing other mages getting possessed, as DA2 illustrated.

At the end of the day, it might be better to address this sort of thing with a sidequest or two rather than a persistent game mechanic. Losing the game because you got possessed as a result of failing a sidequest doesn't seem anywhere near as frustrating as constantly having to deal with the threat of auto-failure whenever certain conditions are met.

It's nice to see an actual suggestion. I could live with a side quest or two but it would need to do a good job of showing why the Inquisitor is well beyond the trickery of demons so that it need not be brought up again.

[Potato Cat]

I do think the threat needs to be presented far better. However, I sympathise with everyone who thinks having the PC deal with these issues is a bit much. So what I think should happen is have a companion who deals with this struggle and for that to be their story arc.

[Inprea]

Magdalena11 wrote...

I would be interested in knowing what lore says that mages are subject to demonic whispers all the time. Can you cite a source or is it your belief?

I believe that after the Harrowing, the only time a mage would normally encounter a demon would be in the fade. I think the games already provide enough opportunity to allow players to listen to demons or turn them down. DAO had the mage origin harrowing and Connor's desire demon and DA2 had the Night Terrors quest line, just off the top of my head.

If you're going to ask for more challenges for mages, rogues should have to solve a puzzle every time they pick a lock or disarm a trap and warriors should have to specifically target weak points manually with every combat. Just saying....

The act of drawing power from the Fade can draw the attention of the spiritual beings on the other side of the Veil, leading to an increased risk of demonic possession
if the mages are not vigilant enough. A possessed mage becomes a
distortion of his or her former self, a twisted monster known as an abomination that has enough power to wipe entire villages off the map.


http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Mage

We also have statements from those such as Avalean if you bring her into the fade with Hawke. When she notes if mages can resist such temptations she's not sure they're entirely human to begin with. Plus I don't assume Uldred willingly allowed himself to be posesssed.

I haven't read anything to suggest the harrowing is an immunization against being possessed. It's a test to see if you can resist being possessed at your weakest.

I do of course wonder. If it's all that risky then why aren't scared apprentices that have been ripped from their families with very little if any training not constantly going abomination?

[Sylvius the Mad]

The side-quest could involve the PC somehow overcoming the risk by capturing or controlling demons in some way. Much as the Dark Ritual allowed the PC a way out of the guaranteed death sentence of being a Grey Warden.

[Enigmatick]

So is "the mage experience" what the kids are calling it nowadays?

[Jorji Costava]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

The side-quest could involve the PC somehow overcoming the risk by capturing or controlling demons in some way. Much as the Dark Ritual allowed the PC a way out of the guaranteed death sentence of being a Grey Warden.

Sounds like as good a premise as any for such a quest. The only thing that would need to be worked out would be the consequences of not completing such a quest, since presumably if you skip it, you haven't completely overcome the risk of possession.

Enigmatick wrote...

So is "the mage experience" what the kids are calling it nowadays?

I believe the technical term is "the phenomenology of mage-hood."

[Cainhurst Crow]

andy69156915 wrote...

Secretlyapotato wrote...

You're rude.

The thing about me is, my rudeness is in direct correlation to how stupid I think someone is being or how stupid an idea is. My rudeness shows what I think of this idea.

To be honest it seems rather constant then in correlation to anything.

[Iron Fist]

Enigmatick wrote...

So is "the mage experience" what the kids are calling it nowadays?

I call it "2 girls 1 staff." 

Modifié par MevenSelas, 24 décembre 2013 - 07:34 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

Fetunche wrote...

The constant threat of demon possession is just Chantry hype. The Tevinter imperium seems to manage without a demon invasion every other day. DAI already has enough unnecessary busy work added with the lack of health regen, resource micromanagement, crafting and the weapon and armour wearing out and needing repair. I would like an engaging story and fun gameplay not homework.

We've never been to tevinter, and the stories that come from it from the few sources from there don't paint a very good picture of it in the first place. The fact they still train templars to fight magic and give them the right of annulment as part of enforcing the laws of the circle, despite having no reason to do so, makes it pretty clear that threats posed by dark magic and abominations are still as high as they are in other circles.

[The Baconer]

Wouldn't being able to easily wipe the map clean of any non magic-resistant enemies during battle also be a part of the 'Mage Experience'? Exhaustion or possibly death as a side effect of casting too many powerful spells within a short period of time? Having to specialize in a branch of magic, like mages lore-wise do, as opposed to being a magical swiss army knife?

The 'Mage Experience' could imply a multitude of things.

Modifié par The Baconer, 24 décembre 2013 - 07:46 .

[Magdalena11]

Inprea wrote...

Magdalena11 wrote...

I would be interested in knowing what lore says that mages are subject to demonic whispers all the time. Can you cite a source or is it your belief?

I believe that after the Harrowing, the only time a mage would normally encounter a demon would be in the fade. I think the games already provide enough opportunity to allow players to listen to demons or turn them down. DAO had the mage origin harrowing and Connor's desire demon and DA2 had the Night Terrors quest line, just off the top of my head.

If you're going to ask for more challenges for mages, rogues should have to solve a puzzle every time they pick a lock or disarm a trap and warriors should have to specifically target weak points manually with every combat. Just saying....

The act of drawing power from the Fade can draw the attention of the spiritual beings on the other side of the Veil, leading to an increased risk of demonic possession
if the mages are not vigilant enough. A possessed mage becomes a
distortion of his or her former self, a twisted monster known as an abomination that has enough power to wipe entire villages off the map.


http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Mage

We also have statements from those such as Avalean if you bring her into the fade with Hawke. When she notes if mages can resist such temptations she's not sure they're entirely human to begin with. Plus I don't assume Uldred willingly allowed himself to be posesssed.

I haven't read anything to suggest the harrowing is an immunization against being possessed. It's a test to see if you can resist being possessed at your weakest.

I do of course wonder. If it's all that risky then why aren't scared apprentices that have been ripped from their families with very little if any training not constantly going abomination?

Thanks for all the links.  

Aveline is reacting to her own failure to resist temptation.  She is expressing her own opinion and I believe the thought that if she couldn't resist temptation, how do mages?  I think it's her hurt pride talking.

I have to disagree about Uldred.  While I'm sure he never planned to become possessed I do believe he willfully sought out and dealt with a demon after his humiliation at Ostagar.  The fact that it was a pride demon is significant.

I never said the harrowing immunized against possession.  What I'm saying is that the mage who has resisted being thrown in front of a demon once is likely to be able to do it again.  That's the whole reason harrowed mages can't be made tranquil.

Good point about new apprentices - I don't know if you've read The Calling, but Fiona's nightmare involves her being whipped by her former master.  She resists the demons she said were whispering promises to her but still manages to kill her master and is sent to the circle for her crimes.  This was without any training and in very dire circumstances.

My point is that each class has potentially game breaking consequences so mages shouldn't have to prove anything.  Rogues can get caught and sent to prison and be removed from society in prison.  Certain warrior specializations sound even riskier.  A berserker in the throes of rage might fall over dead at the end of a fight like that Clayne leader spoken of by the ash warrior at Ostagar.  If it can be assumed that a rogue who gets caught will only get chewed out and a berserker knows when to say when then the day-to-day details of spellcasting for a trained mage should be assumed as well.

[Inprea]

Magdalena11 wrote...
My point is that each class has potentially game breaking consequences so mages shouldn't have to prove anything.  Rogues can get caught and sent to prison and be removed from society in prison.  Certain warrior specializations sound even riskier.  A berserker in the throes of rage might fall over dead at the end of a fight like that Clayne leader spoken of by the ash warrior at Ostagar.  If it can be assumed that a rogue who gets caught will only get chewed out and a berserker knows when to say when then the day-to-day details of spellcasting for a trained mage should be assumed as well.

My interest is more into wanting to play a lore accurate mage rather then having anything to do with the other classes. With all the time they spent talking about it and all the importance they put on the danger of possession it never seems to trouble the player character. No matter how desperate the situation is the PC never even seems to be troubled by a demon.

From a PC perspective resisting possession seems like an utter joke at the moment. Making a deal with a demon seems as difficult of a choice as grabbing a red hot iron or not.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Well if gameplay in dragon age was consistent with lore pc mage wouldn't do crap and ended beaten by everyone because pretty much mages are useless well ending only as team healer nothing more...
ignoring that s/he could turn into abomnation at any moment.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 24 décembre 2013 - 10:08 .

[Phoenix_Fyre]

Only thing I have a hard time grasping is playing a blood mage

I tried it in DA2, and felt... well... like a hypocrite... I dunno, since MageHawke can be the only person to use blood magic w/o reprocussions

[Zanallen]

The first step would be to have a game where you can only play as a mage and design the game around the player being a mage.

[Cainhurst Crow]

I'd say having dream sequences, even just brief 30 second ones in which nothing happens, would be a good acknowledgement, with the option to talk to our companions about it. Sort of like the dreams from origins, except for the mages only. Maybe have them even just bring up resisting demons in dialouge when talking to a fellow mage, or people ignorant about what its like to be mages.

Nothing major amount to a side quest worthy thing, but something at least.

[Reaverwind]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Well if gameplay in dragon age was consistent with lore pc mage wouldn't do crap and ended beaten by everyone because pretty much mages are useless well ending only as team healer nothing more...
ignoring that s/he could turn into abomnation at any moment.

That's one of the things that irked me as well - mage party members weren't all that useful, and I prefer to kill things faster rather than have a healer bot deadweight.