58 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Even if you hand the base to TIM you get bad lines. You don't get a chance to talk to The Illusive Man in a reasonable manner after the Suicide Mission. Shepard get her panties in a bunch and goes all "my way or the highway." In ME3 you have no opportunity to work with TIM anyway. Remember, this is Mass Effect where you choices matter.

I don't remember any problems with the lines there. Anyone know of a set of vids with the different options?

[teh DRUMPf!!]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

It's this abomination nonsense that pushes me towards keeping the base. I don't know why BioWare thought that people's reason for destroying the base was because of some ridiculous sense of "this place is tainted".

'Hard for them to know what players think until after the fact.

With the way they presented the Collectors and their base, I think they were expecting players to be thoroughly repulsed.

And honestly, it's a reasonable expectation, considering the fanbase we're dealing with.

[KaiserShep]

Well, to be fair, the base being treated as disposable rather than providing any useful information made it a bit easier. The funny thing is that despite the base being destroyed, Cerberus still manages to extract bits of Collector tech aside from the reaper larva, like those barriers they put up in various parts of Omega. Being able to finally fabricate some of those nifty particle rifles sure would've been handy, even if it only proves useful against ground forces. It would've been nice if there was something, anything that made the base a more significant point in the plot other than simply ending the Collectors.

The problem with the decision is that we only get a general idea of getting useful intel from Illusive Man, only to have it tossed back as it being totally ruthless with a snarky comment about wanting to build a reaper, so we're naturally being led to believe that it's nothing but a macabre slaughterhouse that should be wiped from the galaxy. If not for the greater threat at hand, I would be inclined to agree. Problem is, we're only permitted to give it to what turned out to be the indoctrinated Space Reich in the end.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 26 décembre 2013 - 08:25 .

[teh DRUMPf!!]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

As I said, my belief for destroying the base is that it is inherently uncontrollable, and too much of a danger via indoctrination to keep.

I trust Cerberus more than I trust anybody else with the base, but I don't think they can control it. I don't buy any of that 'abomination' crap.

Anybody who believes any of that stuff deserves to fail hard and miserably in my opinion.

This thread takes me back...

I started the series w/ ME2, and I destroyed the base (and kept destroying it subsequently) because I had a really bad understanding of what was what in the Mass Effect world. I got why I had to work with Cerberus, but I couldn't guage how large or powerful they were, and what they truly stood for (I only knew what they claimed to stand for). So I, like many, did not trust them in the least. Next, you had the Collectors, who were terrorizing the galaxy despite their low-profile nature. So it made me think that, if the Collectors could do this much damage despite not being very prominent players, what would Cerberus do with it -- a group recognized as terrorists by the largest galactic government body?

It wasn't until my third playthrough that I finally got that the Reapers were a different entity than the Collectors and that they were the main event. Still, this didn't mean much to me because I had no idea what the Reapers were capable of. All I saw was a large fleet approaching the Milky Way. The solution seemed simple: band everyone together and fight.

Then, I played ME1. Suffice it to say, I realized just about everything I thought before was wrong. I still kept destroying the base because I couldn't shake the bad feeling in my gut about TIM/Cerberus getting their hands on Collector tech, but it was a much more difficult decision to make, and deep down I kinda knew I was not making a logical/practical decision.

In the end, I'm glad that keeping the base yields the better outcome, even if that's only by a negligible difference. It's a symbolic victory for the Renegade path, where Mass Effect was thought to be "biased" towards the Paragon values.

I can't remember my initial reaction to the Collectors or their base, which indicates I probably wasn't moved by either of them. I can, however, remember by reaction to Sovereign on Virmire. Those two things do not even compare. This is one of many areas where ME1 brought my opinion of ME2 down to earth a little. ME1's villain was a god and the encounter with said villain was pretty damn frightening. ME2, OTOH, had us fighting mutant bugs and resorted to shock-anvils like Kelly/Lilth getting processed to make us fear them. It was Ed Wood-caliber pulp shlock. LOL!

[wolfhowwl]

What do you guys think of having the option of giving it to someone other than Cerberus like the Council or Alliance?

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 26 décembre 2013 - 08:34 .

[KaiserShep]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

I can't remember my initial reaction to the Collectors or their base, which indicates I probably wasn't moved by either of them. I can, however, remember by reaction to Sovereign on Virmire. Those two things do not even compare. This is one of many areas where ME1 brought my opinion of ME2 down to earth a little. ME1's villain was a god and the encounter with said villain was pretty damn frightening. ME2, OTOH, had us fighting mutant bugs and resorted to shock-anvils like Kelly/Lilth getting processed to make us fear them. It was Ed Wood-caliber pulp shlock. LOL!

Man, it's kind of a shame how Sovereign has the most properly villainous conversation. Harbinger was meant to be the bigger, badder reaper somehow, but with battle cries and calling Shepard an "annoyance", he sure burned away his cool points.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

StreetMagic wrote...

It has nothing to do with a particular fanbase. It's reasonable, period. Most people don't see repurposing corpses into machines/batteries/what have you as anything but bizarre.

I have no idea where you got the idea that keeping the base means using/repurosing corpses. Truly no idea. I mean, it would not even have corpses lying around to begin with. The bodies they collected would have been processed already to make the human centipede Reaper, remember? What you'd study there is schematics. How are Reapers built, weaknesses you can find/exploit. If anything is created, it would be new tech through reverse-engineering (ala Thanix Cannon).

As for the fanbase, let's not kid ourselves, this is a group of people who largely subscribe to typical ME Paragon virtues. I initially thought this was just the Mass Effect writing team's inability to write ambiguity very well and for always rewarding the Paragon path, but I see the same thing hold true Dragon Age, which has neither ME's two problems.

Few people are as "openminded" or "progressive" as you are. You're fringe. The equivalent of someone with a poop or ****** fetish, and thinks everyone else is not being normal.

Few people are like me, this is true. And here I am, going about sharing my uncommon perspective.

Kinda hurts these "normal people" in the pucker when I do it, too, dudn't it?

Having said that, I don't have any fetishes that are particularly out there. Only one a little unusual is my love for a prominent chin on a woman, but that's about it. I do not get feet fetishes whatsoever, much less those for poo poo.

[Farangbaa]

StreetMagic wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...


Few people are like me, this is true. And here I am, going about sharing my uncommon perspective.

As long as you admit it's uncommon, I see no issue. lol. I just don't care when Synthesis/Control supporters act like they've tapped into some higher metaphyical "Truth", and don't recognize the uphill battle in convincing others. Like it's all supposed to be obvious or something.

You know why the entirety of Mass Effect is crap?

With the speed at which technology is moving forward, right now, in real life, we'll have reached Synthesis long before the Reapers come.

Synthesis IS the future.

But in Mass Effect, that stuff still has to happen, for some unexplainable reason. There's only a few people that have integerated machinery/robotics/whatever into their body, and those are Reaper helpers/tools and Shepard. 

FTL Travel? Sure! Transhumans? GTFO!

http://documentaryad...ocumentary.html

[cap and gown]

@StreetMagic

Do you save the cure data?

[Bourne Endeavor]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

As I said, my belief for destroying the base is that it is inherently uncontrollable, and too much of a danger via indoctrination to keep.

I trust Cerberus more than I trust anybody else with the base, but I don't think they can control it. I don't buy any of that 'abomination' crap.

Anybody who believes any of that stuff deserves to fail hard and miserably in my opinion.

I am curious why you would trust Cerberus with anything. The narrative goes out of its way to portray them as hilariously incompetent whenever they attempt to do experiments on anything, Reaper tech or otherwise. In fact, most instances inevitably involve you having step in because they've gotten themselves killed, indoctrinated or trapped.

[Display Name Owner]

Yeah, hate all that abomination talk. It's kind of funny imo, Shep doesn't mind using cryo ammo or polonium rounds without berating whoever invented them, and that's a pretty harsh way to kill somebody. Eh.

Anyway, I've decided I really might as well just preserve the base every time. It's the only way the Cerberus arc makes a lick of sense. Well, it at least removes the wtf of how they somehow got all that data and technology from a scattered cloud of charred rubble.

[cap and gown]

isnudo wrote...

Anyway, I've decided I really might as well just preserve the base every time. It's the only way the Cerberus arc makes a lick of sense. Well, it at least removes the wtf of how they somehow got all that data and technology from a scattered cloud of charred rubble.

Good point.

[CosmicGnosis]

Uggghhhh, this always frustrates me. Look at these great points. Legion has the best argument:

Garrus: "I don't know Shepard. What happened here was horrible, but we have to stop the Reapers. If we destroy this base, then all these people died for nothing."

Mordin: "Agreed. Collector Base horrific. Vile experiments. But should use what's here. Risks galaxy to ignore opportunity."

Legion: "Shepard-Commander. This facility is data. It has no inherent ethical value. Destroying it will not return those lost. Keeping it may save others."

Aaaaaaand then look at what they say later:

Garrus: "I hope Cerberus can figure out what to do with all that tech. I also hope they don't decide to do something worse than what the Collectors were planning. Watch yourself, Shepard."

Mordin: "Cerberus better than Collectors. Still wouldn't turn base over to them. Risky. More than risky. Dangerous. Hope you know what you're doing."

Legion: "An interesting choice, Shepard-Commander. The Old Machines offered your race what the geth aspire to: Unity. Transcendence. Now you possess the knowledge yourselves. We hope you do not use it. Your species has much potential. You should build your own future."

Thanks for all your advice back at the base, guys! To be fair, Garrus has a reasonable response, but the other two just ****** me off. Especially Legion, who offered the most compelling argument for keeping the base. 

This is why I said that the game fails to clearly convey what keeping the base actually means. I would definitely keep it to study it, but not to use it. And that is the confusing part. Some of the characters, even TIM himself, claim that the base should be studied, but then the other characters act like TIM is actually going to build a Reaper, and is therefore just as bad as the Reapers.

Perhaps most annoying of all, none of the characters ever express concern that the base might indoctrinate people, which is the single most rational reason for destroying it. Other than the ME3 ending, BioWare failed spectacularly with the Collector Base, from its presentation to its consequences. 

[cap and gown]

Well, the Collector Base decision is like a lot of decisions in ME1: give me a reasonable third option! Like with Shiala: why is it freedom or death? Why can't I just arrest her? Or the queen? Why do I have to let her go or kill her on the spot? Why can't I contact the council first and see what they want?

[Dextro Milk]

StreetMagic wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Anybody who believes any of that stuff deserves to fail hard and miserably in my opinion.

Why would you be so upset about it. I don't want anything to do with your game experience. Or vice versa. I don't see why it matters what other people play.

That said, it's not a "belief" on my part. I see ME2 as a mission to rescue and/or avenge lost colonists. And maybe in my Shepard's mind, a warning sign to anyone who wants to screw with humanity. I don't suddenly see it as a grab for power or research at the end. My goals weren't to repurpose anyone's corpse. It's disgusting and disrespectful. Same goes with making a helmet or cane out of a dead friend's bones. I don't see it as particulary compatible with my original goal.

Agreed. 100%

[Bourne Endeavor]

cap and gown wrote...

Well, the Collector Base decision is like a lot of decisions in ME1: give me a reasonable third option! Like with Shiala: why is it freedom or death? Why can't I just arrest her? Or the queen? Why do I have to let her go or kill her on the spot? Why can't I contact the council first and see what they want?

Because how dare you get in the way of their movie? I mean isn't it enough they let you make some choices that are usually arbitrary and pointless? Honestly.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

cap and gown wrote...

Well, the Collector Base decision is like a lot of decisions in ME1: give me a reasonable third option! Like with Shiala: why is it freedom or death? Why can't I just arrest her? Or the queen? Why do I have to let her go or kill her on the spot? Why can't I contact the council first and see what they want?

Sparatus: "Shepard! A rachni queen? Don't you know what to do, you idiot? Why did we bother to make you a Spectre in the first place? Don't you know what they did 2000 years ago?"

Shepard: "No, Councilor I wasn't around then. They didn't teach about Rachni in Earth History."

Valern: "Look it up on the Extranet, we've got work to do."

Tevos: "We don't interfere in the decisions of our Spectres. Call us with your report when your mission is complete."

Later.....

Sparatus: "You killed it? You fool!"
Valern: "It was the last of its kind. We could have studied it."

Let's not forget Grunt's comments in ME2 about the Collector Base (I don't remember his exact words):

Grunt: Hmmm... Use the enemy's weapons against him. That's a sound strategy.
Later: Giving the base to The Illusive Man was weak, Shepard. <_<


Welcome to another round of "Damned if you do. Damned if you don't."

[cap and gown]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Welcome to another round of "Damned if you do. Damned if you don't."

Spare the queen:
Turian councilor: How could you let it live? Do you know how many people died in the Rachni War?

Kill the queen:
Turian councilor: Do you enjoy committing genocide?
(Best renegade response in ME1: "Sometimes, TURIAN.")

Eclipse Merc in Dantius Towers let go:
Garrus: "Anybody else would have killed him."

Eclipse Merc in Dantius Towers pushed out the window:
Garrus: "That was a little extreme."

Modifié par cap and gown, 27 décembre 2013 - 05:06 .