55 réponses à ce sujet

[themikefest]

I agree. I to enjoyed the dlc even though I had to pay $15 to finally see Samantha off the ship.

Its too bad that Steve, Miranda, Samantha and Jack couldn't be with Shepard when in the casino. They can distract the guard as well as anyone else. I would be interested in what Jack would wear to the casino and what her dialogue would've been for those that had her for a LI

[BaladasDemnevanni]

crimzontearz wrote...

I am glad ME3 then turned the series into something you like because Grim and Gritty could not be used to describe ME1&2

But hopefully Bioware will let it die there and return the series to what it was before ME3, at least Citadel seemed to show they CAN do it as long as "the artist" keeps to himself.

I think this is a laughably bad point. Citadel has about as much in common with ME1 and 2 as ME3 does, which is to say very little.

ME1 and 2 had several dark and gritty moments, despite not as a collective whole being dark and gritty. In a similar vein, Citadel takes enjoyable character quirks of companion characters and raises them to the tenth degree. Citadel is exclusively about the light-hearted. But ME1 and 2 certainly never lose track of the main threat, referencing pretty frequently what the player needs to do and having several serious conversations with companion characters.

Citadel, on the other hand, exists in its own private bubble.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 26 décembre 2013 - 05:05 .

[GimmeDaGun]

iakus wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...

You can't produce a whole game along the lines of a semi-canonical, tongue-in-cheek, deliberately cheesy fan service dlc, which The Citadel was. It would not work. It is a great dlc, I just do not like it. 

it is my firm belief that Citadel was so popular specifically because ME3 was too dark, gritty and generally unpleasant to people.  Like a glass of cold milk after biting into something far too spicy.  it may not be what you'd normally go for, but at that particular moment, there are few things you desire more.

It depends on how you look at it, really. Different people like it - or dislike it, in my case - for different reasons. 

For those who did not like ME3 it was the glass of cold milk you discribe. To many, who were fans of the trilogy it was a nostalgic moment of saying good bye to all the characters and fond memories of the fandom (memes, inside jokes etc.). To some (like myself) it was a beautifully crafted dlc, but its content was not for them. Others found it lame. 

I'm glad that to those who disliked the direction ME3 took it brought some level of comfort. To me, it remains a fan-service dlc which I will play sometime just to enjoy the light-hearted fan-fic feel it has, outside the context of the story and game. 

[BaladasDemnevanni]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

iakus wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...

You can't produce a whole game along the lines of a semi-canonical, tongue-in-cheek, deliberately cheesy fan service dlc, which The Citadel was. It would not work. It is a great dlc, I just do not like it. 

it is my firm belief that Citadel was so popular specifically because ME3 was too dark, gritty and generally unpleasant to people.  Like a glass of cold milk after biting into something far too spicy.  it may not be what you'd normally go for, but at that particular moment, there are few things you desire more.

It depends on how you look at it, really. Different people like it - or dislike it, in my case - for different reasons. 

For those who did not like ME3 it was the glass of cold milk you discribe. To many, who were fans of the trilogy it was a nostalgic moment of saying good bye to all the characters and fond memories of the fandom (memes, inside jokes etc.). To some (like myself) it was a beautifully crafted dlc, but its content was not for them. Others found it lame. 

I'm glad that to those who disliked the direction ME3 took it brought some level of comfort. To me, it remains a fan-service dlc which I will play sometime just to enjoy the light-hearted fan-fic feel it has, outside the context of the story and game. 

Personally? I would have preferred Citadel to omit a main plot altogether and instead focus entirely on increasing character interactions, whether romances, basic conversations, a few more individual missions or increasing reactivity to previous choices.

Instead of the collective silliness of the party, I would have enjoyed more in the style of Garrus and Shepard's 1v1 time shooting stuff off a roof. Yes, it had a fun light-hearted aspect, but did a much better job showcasing what makes these characters enjoyable.

[crimzontearz]

I think this is a laughably bad point. Citadel has about as much in common with ME1 and 2 as ME3 does, which is to say very little.

ME1 and 2 had several dark and gritty moments, despite not as a collective whole being dark and gritty. In a similar vein, Citadel takes enjoyable character quirks of companion characters and raises them to the tenth degree. Citadel is exclusively about the light-hearted. But ME1 and 2 certainly never lose track of the main threat, referencing pretty frequently what the player needs to do and having several serious conversations with companion characters.

Citadel, on the other hand, exists in its own private bubble.

entirely not the point

[Daemul]

The Citadel DLC was alright, it was tolerable, I wouldn't say I loved it but it didn't make me rage like Pinnacle Station did so it passes, but man the party was so crap. When I chose the Energetic party I was expecting a party similar to those I used to go to in my upper High School/University days, where crazy s**t would go down and chaos would erupt with the police being called in and people getting arrested etc. Them days.

With the squadmates being of an older age I can see why it was tame affair compared to the parties I went too back in the day, but man I was still expecting so much more than we got. Bioware, if your going to do a party do it right next time, or just call me and I'll show you how its done.

[GimmeDaGun]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...

iakus wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...

You can't produce a whole game along the lines of a semi-canonical, tongue-in-cheek, deliberately cheesy fan service dlc, which The Citadel was. It would not work. It is a great dlc, I just do not like it. 

it is my firm belief that Citadel was so popular specifically because ME3 was too dark, gritty and generally unpleasant to people.  Like a glass of cold milk after biting into something far too spicy.  it may not be what you'd normally go for, but at that particular moment, there are few things you desire more.

It depends on how you look at it, really. Different people like it - or dislike it, in my case - for different reasons. 

For those who did not like ME3 it was the glass of cold milk you discribe. To many, who were fans of the trilogy it was a nostalgic moment of saying good bye to all the characters and fond memories of the fandom (memes, inside jokes etc.). To some (like myself) it was a beautifully crafted dlc, but its content was not for them. Others found it lame. 

I'm glad that to those who disliked the direction ME3 took it brought some level of comfort. To me, it remains a fan-service dlc which I will play sometime just to enjoy the light-hearted fan-fic feel it has, outside the context of the story and game. 

Personally? I would have preferred Citadel to omit a main plot altogether and instead focus entirely on increasing character interactions, whether romances, basic conversations, a few more individual missions or increasing reactivity to previous choices.

Instead of the collective silliness of the party, I would have enjoyed more in the style of Garrus and Shepard's 1v1 time shooting stuff off a roof. Yes, it had a fun light-hearted aspect, but did a much better job showcasing what makes these characters enjoyable.

I agree with you, except for the omittion of main plot. I prefer a solid main-plot with some further lore exploration, plot extention and additional character interactions, moments (something along the lines of Leviathan) + the character moments you describe.

Instead of the silly self-containded side-plot, the Armax arena stuff, new hub area with the mini-games, the aparment and the party I would have focused more on additional character interactions (more along the line the ones which were already in the game) and patching up the game and the plot with the addition of scenes, conversations, cutscenes and an interesting side-plot which has more connection to the main plot and the lore. 

[Daemul]

crimzontearz wrote...

I guess it's not for me. When I bought it I expected something completely different. So it was a waste of money for me. I'm not a fan who is so in love with the characters - especially not their cheesy side, nor one who cares about the romances in the game. I'm more of the fan of the lore and the grittiness and grimmness of the story and universe. To me the ending is just fine as it is.

I am glad ME3 then turned the series into something you like because Grim and Gritty could not be used to describe ME1&2

But hopefully Bioware will let it die there and return the series to what it was before ME3, at least Citadel seemed to show they CAN do it as long as "the artist" keeps to himself.

On a side note, I would gave paid an extra 10$ to have citadel GLUED after the credits of ME3

What? You and I must have been playing a different series because ME1 and ME2 aren't even remotely similar to Citadel DLC. 

[Iakus]

Daemul wrote...

What? You and I must have been playing a different series because ME1 and ME2 aren't even remotely similar to Citadel DLC. 

Just because they aren't like Citadel doesn't make them grim and gritty.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

iakus wrote...

Daemul wrote...

What? You and I must have been playing a different series because ME1 and ME2 aren't even remotely similar to Citadel DLC. 

Just because they aren't like Citadel doesn't make them grim and gritty.

I don't recall him saying ME1 or 2 were grim and gritty. On the other hand, the poster he was responding to did claim that Citadel returned the series to a style similar to ME1 and 2, which it doesn't.

That A does not equal B does not mean that A now equals C.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 26 décembre 2013 - 05:36 .

[dreamgazer]

Daemul wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

I guess it's not for me. When I bought it I expected something completely different. So it was a waste of money for me. I'm not a fan who is so in love with the characters - especially not their cheesy side, nor one who cares about the romances in the game. I'm more of the fan of the lore and the grittiness and grimmness of the story and universe. To me the ending is just fine as it is.

I am glad ME3 then turned the series into something you like because Grim and Gritty could not be used to describe ME1&2

But hopefully Bioware will let it die there and return the series to what it was before ME3, at least Citadel seemed to show they CAN do it as long as "the artist" keeps to himself.

On a side note, I would gave paid an extra 10$ to have citadel GLUED after the credits of ME3

What? You and I must have been playing a different series because ME1 and ME2 aren't even remotely similar to Citadel DLC. 

What, you didn't play the version of Citadel that featured a forced choice to kill one of two squadmates, the option to commit literal genocide of a species, and an ending choice between sending masses of humans or aliens to death?

[Daemul]

iakus wrote...

Daemul wrote...

What? You and I must have been playing a different series because ME1 and ME2 aren't even remotely similar to Citadel DLC. 

Just because they aren't like Citadel doesn't make them grim and gritty.

I never said they were grim and gritty. There is a middle ground between Grim/Gritty and whatever Citadel was, just because it isn't one of them it doesn't mean that  it's the other. 

[GimmeDaGun]

StreetMagic wrote...

I think ME2 is grim if you outright suck. As a person and as a player. Then you're not healing dying batarians, barely upgrading the Normandy, and you let someone other than Jack or Samara do the biotic bubble.

Basically, the default Shepard Bioware uses for a non-import ME3 game. That's the only reason why it's so gritty.. because they made the default choices for ME2 reflective of the lowest common denominator retards. That's a great basis for a game, isn't it?

I'm getting off the point though. Otherwise, I don't think ME2 is any more gritty than a Marvel comic series.

Grim and gritty does not equal deliberately evil or stupid or the absolute void of light heartedness or kindness. From a role-playing point of veiw though, it makes sense for a colonist Shepard to hate all batarians and let a batarian die or kill any batarian who looks at him or her the bad way. 

You can play the game in many ways. For instance I kill the council, because I would find it stupid to focus the attack on the geth ships which endanger the DA, while the huge ass reaper tries to open the portal for the galactic apocalypse. It's not stupid, nor evil. Or not giving Miranda the intel when she asks for it (which leads to her death)
is absolutely logical. I would not give an (ex? - you can't be sure) Cerberus top agent, Alliance intel while the Alliance is at war with the organization and under the pressure of the reaper invasion. Yeah, Miranda dies, but the whole scene makes more sense then: she sacrifices herself for her sister, dies by the sword of another Cerberus agent, this way she kind of redeems herself for being a blind Cerberus follower and cold and calculated agent. It also gives more weight to Shepard's decision. He is not perfect, he has to deal with the consequences of his deeds or the lack of them. It also makes Kai-Leng less of an incapable, but more of an annyoing ******. 


etc. etc. etc. 

I usually try to role-play my character and do the things which I think are right or more in line with my feelings. Sometimes they are brash and ruthless moves, sometimes they are more polite and kind, it depends on the situation, and yes sometimes people die or suffer as a consequence. I don't like playing a flawless, super-hero Shepard (or any other character). I like to play a violent badass with flaws and with a no-nonsense attitude. This playstyle alone makes the first two games a lot darker for me (but the story is already pretty dark, you only have a chance to make it less painfully obvious by playing a different style). 

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 26 décembre 2013 - 06:00 .

[Minic78]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

I think ME2 is grim if you outright suck. As a person and as a player. Then you're not healing dying batarians, barely upgrading the Normandy, and you let someone other than Jack or Samara do the biotic bubble.

Basically, the default Shepard Bioware uses for a non-import ME3 game. That's the only reason why it's so gritty.. because they made the default choices for ME2 reflective of the lowest common denominator retards. That's a great basis for a game, isn't it?

I'm getting off the point though. Otherwise, I don't think ME2 is any more gritty than a Marvel comic series.

Grim and gritty does not equal deliberately evil or stupid or the absolute void of light heartedness or kindness. From a role-playing point of veiw though, it makes sense for a colonist Shepard to hate all batarians and let a batarian die or kill any batarian who looks at him or her the bad way. 

You can play the game in many ways. For instance I kill the council, because I would find it stupid to focus the attack on the geth ships which endanger the DA, while the huge ass reaper tries to open the portal for the galactic apocalypse. It's not stupid, nor evil. Or not giving Miranda the intel when she asks for it (which leads to her death)
is absolutely logical. I would not give an (ex? - you can't be sure) Cerberus top agent, Alliance intel while the Alliance is at war with the organization and under the pressure of the reaper invasion. Yeah, Miranda dies, but the whole scene makes more sense then: she sacrifices herself for her sister, dies by the sword of another Cerberus agent, this way she kind of redeems herself for being a blind Cerberus follower and cold and calculated agent. It also gives more weight to Shepard's decision. He is not perfect, he has to deal with the consequences of his deeds or the lack of them. It also makes Kai-Leng less of an incapable, but more of an annyoing ******. 


etc. etc. etc. 

I usually try to role-play my character and do the things which I think are right or more in line with my feelings. Sometimes they are brash and ruthless moves, sometimes they are more polite and kind, it depends on the situation, and yes sometimes people die or suffer as a consequence. I don't like playing a flawless, super-hero Shepard (or any other character). I like to play a violent badass with flaws and with a no-nonsense attitude. This playstyle alone makes the first two games a lot darker for me (but the story is already pretty dark, you only have a chance to make it less painfully obvious by playing a different style). 

Very well said. My first playthrough of the series I tried to make all the "right" decisions and be superhero Shepard, and it was by far the most uninteresting one.

[Bleachrude]

I'm not sure it's fair to say that the Citadel was JUST lighthearted. The main mission part of the DLC I think would have fit inn very well with the rest of ME1/ME2 with it being both silly/self-referential/grim and gritty (as someone said...the recruitment for samara is a perfect example of how ME welded both aspects together).

The romances, depending on the characters (jack and thane) were also somewhat emotionally deep and would be something I classify as "serious" compared to say Garrus and Tali romances that put a smile to your face. Listening to Anderson's datapads vs listening to Mordin's datapads is another good example I think. The former is completely serious and has some very interesting lore revelations while the latter is just pure fun.

It's the meetups, the NPCs you can meet around silversun strip and the actual party itself that goes straight into the fluffiness aspect with no *serious* aspect but the ending itself "The Best" had a LOT of ME fans choking up especially given how both Hale and Meer nailed those final scene.

[Deager]

GimmeDaGun wrote...
I usually try to role-play my character and do the things which I think are right or more in line with my feelings. Sometimes they are brash and ruthless moves, sometimes they are more polite and kind, it depends on the situation, and yes sometimes people die or suffer as a consequence. I don't like playing a flawless, super-hero Shepard (or any other character). I like to play a violent badass with flaws and with a no-nonsense attitude. This playstyle alone makes the first two games a lot darker for me (but the story is already pretty dark, you only have a chance to make it less painfully obvious by playing a different style). 

Easily my favorite Shepard was played that way. Ended up 3/5 renegade in ME3 as a result. I too had tried the "hero" or paragon route the first play-through and yes, everybody got hugs and I took the green pill, but it just didn't feel quite right.

I'll go back to the beginning of the post. I'm definitely a Citadel DLC fan. But the context was just too weird during the main game for me. But, for some it works. And for others, it just never works, which is understandable. I do know that I am looking forward to the next game in the Mass Effect universe.

[Sable Rhapsody]

iakus wrote...

Well, not "glue" it to postcredits, but edited the dialogue to make it sound postgame, so you can do Citadel after completing the main game and not have references to the Reapers or Cerberus in the present tense.

Citadel Epilogue Mod, most important mod after MEHEM to me

Do tell!  I have been absent from the ME fandom for quite a while, and this is certainly a nice surprise.

[CaIIisto]

Depends what you value in ME I guess. For me, a large part of it has always been the characters and the myriad of interactions. To that end, Citadel was a goldmine, for me at least.

On a personal note - it gave me a far better emotional bookend to the trilogy than the OE or EC did.

[Invisible Man]

I had 2 common sense issues with the citadel dlc... first when shep opened that sealed door before the walkway with his/her spectre code ,while comms were hacked (I was thinking that's going to bite me in the a**). why not simply hack the door? second, when shep is in the archives and uses the normandy's command codes also while communications are hacked (seriously, I face-palmed myself at that point) other than that, loved the dlc.

[bluSPECTRE]

iakus wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

....yeah well Iakus I play on Xbox so I am screwed

Microsoft really needs to develop its own version of Steamworks

This. Absolutely all of this. Make it happen Microsoft!

[Iakus]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

iakus wrote...

Well, not "glue" it to postcredits, but edited the dialogue to make it sound postgame, so you can do Citadel after completing the main game and not have references to the Reapers or Cerberus in the present tense.

Citadel Epilogue Mod, most important mod after MEHEM to me

Do tell!  I have been absent from the ME fandom for quite a while, and this is certainly a nice surprise.

Info can be found here:

http://social.biowar.../index/17084774

Enjoy 

Modifié par iakus, 28 décembre 2013 - 03:30 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

iakus wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

iakus wrote...

Well, not "glue" it to postcredits, but edited the dialogue to make it sound postgame, so you can do Citadel after completing the main game and not have references to the Reapers or Cerberus in the present tense.

Citadel Epilogue Mod, most important mod after MEHEM to me

Do tell!  I have been absent from the ME fandom for quite a while, and this is certainly a nice surprise.

Info can be found here:

http://social.biowar.../index/17084774

Enjoy 

Kind of sucks for me since Cerberus, led by Miranda and my Shepard, is the new shadow hyperpower in the galaxy. So speaking of it in past tense is kind of weird. Although, granted, only a few of the squad would be in on it. 

Also, why aren't so many people dead? Like EDI, Garrus, Tali, Javik, Jack, and Ashley (shot for her final betrayal)?

My headcanon is srs biz.

[David7024]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

iakus wrote...

Well, not "glue" it to postcredits, but edited the dialogue to make it sound postgame, so you can do Citadel after completing the main game and not have references to the Reapers or Cerberus in the present tense.

Citadel Epilogue Mod, most important mod after MEHEM to me

Do tell!  I have been absent from the ME fandom for quite a while, and this is certainly a nice surprise.

Info can be found here:

http://social.biowar.../index/17084774

Enjoy 

Kind of sucks for me since Cerberus, led by Miranda and my Shepard, is the new shadow hyperpower in the galaxy. So speaking of it in past tense is kind of weird. Although, granted, only a few of the squad would be in on it. 

Also, why aren't so many people dead? Like EDI, Garrus, Tali, Javik, Jack, and Ashley (shot for her final betrayal)?

My headcanon is srs biz.

Your head canon makes Shepard not seem like a hero so it is not 'srs biz'