255 réponses à ce sujet

[Toasted Llama]

Also, I'll throw in Cicero's slave Tiro in for facts sake:

Tiro earned a fortune and was able to retire to an estate by serving as a slave and died at the extremely old age of 99.

Yes, you read that correct. A slave had more rights, power and money than most of the people here on BSN did because he bought his freedom with the money he earned as a slave.

This guy also lived past the life expectancy of today

[Fortlowe]

Delude yourself if you must. Pedophilia in the church is an aberration. The church doesn't want pedophiles. They just have them. Pedophilia in slavery is systemic. It is part of the process. Intended. Expected. Calculated. Part of a system designed to dominate a human being for every moment of their entire lives.

[AresKeith]

Can we not bring Pedophilia into this

[Zkyire]

The Inquisitor has no in-game reason for owning slaves. The game isn't set in Tevinter.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

AresKeith wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Orkfaeller wrote...

Getting a bit annoyed when people consider slavery ( or other topic ) in games like this as "evil".

Owning someone else in ancient/medieval times wasn't evil, it was natural ( if you were a person of power ),

So yeah, I'd hope slavery/thraldom will be a thing, but not exclusivly to sadistic, "evil" characters.

The problem is that it's already been established as this in-setting. So, it's a little late for the setting as a whole to consider it as anything but this.

Not really

Honest slavery is portrayed as the reserve of the Tevinters, who it is very difficult to argue aren't evil. The Orlesians pretend not to own slaves, due to the fact that slavery is outlawed out of hatred of Tevinter. Slave gangs exist in Kirkwall due to law and order existing on paper. And then there's the way slavery is handled in the one quest in Origins that deals with it.

The one even neutral representation of slavery is when you are allowed to enslave the already broken Orana, which is adknowledged as illegal and gets you called out on it. Not to mention that it happens in the presence of an escaped slave, who is shown as having had very good reasons to escape his bonds. You are allowed to sell him back into slavery, which ends in him being brainwashed, and I think he's heavily implied to be walking back into mindless servitude, even the sexual variety. I don't think there's much of an argument to be made that the devs aren't already hitting us over the head with "slavery is evil," and I'm not sure I'd be okay with the turn-around the original comment in this line suggests.

[Toasted Llama]

Fortlowe wrote...

Delude yourself if you must. Pedophilia in the church is an aberration. The church doesn't want pedophiles. They just have them. Pedophilia in slavery is systemic. It is part of the process. Intended. Expected. Calculated. Part of a system designed to dominate a human being for every moment of their entire lives.

And who gave you all of this great wisdom? Because some of the historical works I've read (as in, I had to translate quite my share of ancient greece/latin pieces for my education and I've seen quite my share of artistic works depicting this topic) contradict this.

[Sully13]

Slavery just is not cool.
But it would be cool to play as an Elven Sparticus and start a rebelion. just without the crusifiction.

[AlexanderCousland]

Freshistay wrote...

Freshistay wrote...

An indentured servant is not a Slave

Fast Jimmy wrote...
According to the FreshIstay definition? That's fine. You'll forgive me if I don't give a rat's rear end about your definition.

According to a historian's definiton? Yes - it is considered slavery. 

Indentured Servant

Slave

For people who care to know the actual definition

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Okay... and here is the Oxford English Dictionary definition, which includes people who are underpaid.
http://www.oxforddic...n_english/slave

...as well as the WordReference.com definition that has the same variable definition as well...

http://www.wordrefer...efinition/slave

That you can paste a definition from one source that mentions the right words you want does not make it the academic or historical definition of the word. 

I'll refer back to the Wikipedia link on slavery, which has dozens of linked and verified sources as to the broad definition and history of the term "slavery."

Oh Jimmy Boi.
Indentured servitude isn't even historically recognized as a concept until 1723.
You still haven't proved an indentured servant is a slave AND you didn't even provide a link to the definition of indentured servitude. 

YOU: indentured servant = Slave
Me : NO 

But I don't have a problem that slavery is a subject in Dragon Age, adds to the experience.

Modifié par FreshIstay, 26 décembre 2013 - 08:58 .

[9TailsFox]

JCAP wrote...

MidnightsFury wrote...

Oh you really went all out, many thanks! Well we may need that much popcorn. Storm's a comin!

The better part is there someone is actually trying to prove slavery isn't evil. Oh ya, this thread is going places!!!

In DA 2 case it would be evel just to let that elf girls go an be free, because she wouldn't know how. Best is to take hear and give job even if she wouldn't know what to do with money.

[Fast Jimmy]

Fortlowe wrote...

Delude yourself if you must. Pedophilia in the church is an aberration. The church doesn't want pedophiles. They just have them. Pedophilia in slavery is systemic. It is part of the process. Intended. Expected. Calculated. Part of a system designed to dominate a human being for every moment of their entire lives.

You make it sound like slavery was invented in some shady backroom as a way to get perverts their jollies.

In reality, slavery is almost always rooted as a by-product of war. Even North American slavery, often held up as the pinnacle of racism and European brutality (as it rightly should) initially started from Barbary pirtaes (read - fellow Africans) who raided coastal African villages and kidnapped their targets or enemies. It is a source of labor and quick money, not some vile scheme designed to forever torment those under its thumb, let alone to try and rape children.

All of this is far afield of the topic - slavery exists in Thedas. It is looked down upon, but it takes widespread abuse of it to register on anyone's radar... Loghain had enslaved a quarter of the alienage it seemed like before anyone even began to be suscpicious, let alone took action. Couple that with the fact that an Arl owns the land his subjects live in (with the added implication that they live and die by their command) and you have a situation where there is an atmosphere for both "standard" cases of slavery to exist in the narrative, as well as de-facto ones.

Should there be an option to say such systems are despicable? Sure. Absolutely. Should the player be given the option to say "this is not ideal, but selling these slaves could result in earning X money/resource/agents/what-have-you" as well? Well, I think so. We are allowed to perform a blood magic sacrifice of some slaves in DA:O and still be called a hero, I don't see why we wouldn't be able to have some interactions and options with slavery in DA:I as well.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 26 décembre 2013 - 09:05 .

[9TailsFox]

Zkyire wrote...

The Inquisitor has no in-game reason for owning slaves. The game isn't set in Tevinter.

DA:I script already leaked? I hope not and you just writer, then please no spoilers.

Modifié par 9TailsFox, 26 décembre 2013 - 09:05 .

[Toasted Llama]

9TailsFox wrote...

In DA 2 case it would be evel just to let that elf girls go an be free, because she wouldn't know how. Best is to take hear and give job even if she wouldn't know what to do with money.

Because managing financial affairs, dictation and being a gardener is such a terrible job to do.

And becoming a free person, owning an estate, a fortune and dying of old age is also terrible.

[AresKeith]

9TailsFox wrote...

Zkyire wrote...

The Inquisitor has no in-game reason for owning slaves. The game isn't set in Tevinter.

DA:I script already leaked? I hope not and you just writer, then please no spoilers.

Honestly, there's no reason for the Inquisitor to have slaves

[Fast Jimmy]

FreshIstay wrote...
Oh Jimmy Boi.
Indentured servitude isn't even historically recognized as a concept until 1723.

...okay? Is anything after 1722 not considered history all of a sudden? Because I know some American History experts who would, quite staunchly, agree that events that happened between 1723 and today count as history.

You still haven't proved an indentured servant is a slave AND you didn't even provide a link to the definition of indentured servitude. 

YOU: indentured servant = Slave
Me : NO 

But I don't have a problem that slavery is a subject in Dragon Age, adds to the experience.

I already linked to the Wikipedia article on slavery. I'll post it again, just because I like you so much.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery

Oh, and here is the link to the Indentured Servitude Wikipedia page as well. You'll notice it classifies it as a form of "white slavery". And that it goes in a LITTLE more detail than a dictionary. And has more verified sources as well.

http://en.wikipedia....tured_servitude

[hotdogbsg]

So....any bets on how long before this thread is closed?

[KainD]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Oakfaeller: I also hope your slave kills your love interest. Cause vindictive slaves were also "a thing".

Only if your LI is someone incompitent, aka not a battle type, probably only option if they are a romance-able NPC. 

[Sully13]

But more reason to atleast try an fight it. i can see the scene help free the slaves and get a few soldiers / workers or help the slavers for financial suport.

[Sully13]

Hotdogbsg i will take that bet. this thread could be better suted to requesting anatomocaly correct characters.

[Osena109]

 Id be down to owning a slave army like the  unsullied  but id free them like danny did to earn there trust to fight for me

Modifié par Osena109, 26 décembre 2013 - 09:21 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Osena109 wrote...

 Id be down to owning a slave army like the  unsullied  but id free them like danny  did to earn there trust  to fight for me

And if they, much more realistically, said "screw this, I'm outta here" and left you high-and-dry for an army, how would that make you feel?

[JCAP]

Fast Jimmy wrote...


I would rather live than die. 

There you stand on the battlefield injured, watching the enemy picking up the survivors and putting chains in them. You have some time before they reach you. You heard stories of the enemy slaves. Some masters treat them reasonably well, while others just don't give a damn about them.

Here I ask you again Jimmy, would you face that uncertain future wich may be short or long, mercilless or hopeful that one day you might buy your way out? (this is assuming you can do that, many slaves didn't have that luck)


Ah, worth mentioning, usually the only slaves in Roman Empire Era could buy their freedom were the gladiators because they were the only ones that could make so much money.

No sorry, employing someone means giving someone something in return of their service willingly. I can be a ****** and pay them next to nothing but as long I am not forcing them it is employment.

In that lord giving work scenario you are putting me on the spot. If I help them you say I am exploring them or if I turn them away I am a murderer.

And those that sold themselves weren't forced (or were by their situation?). I wouldn't call that slavery but I wouldn't call either employment. I would call that "don'tRemember servitude" from Mass Effect 2 on Elysium.

If you classify only the absolutely worst cases of slavery as slavery, then yes... it will be undeniably bad. Just like you can classify the absolute most heinous cases of killing people to be murder, then it is pretty bad as well. But if you take the action, murder - the act of killing another - and then see all of the circumstances and scenarios that this can come about, you'd see that murder is a very bad thing... but not always the WORST thing. And if killing someone is truly evil, would self-defense (a form of murder) be bad? No, of course not.

If you cookie cut a word or practice to only take its most deviant, terrible form, then that word losses meaning, because it is not even indicative of what is being talked about. The same goes with slavery - if we are saying that people who aren't being paid for their wages, who may have volunteered to be put in that situation, who weren't sexually abused and who didn't have their children abducted and sold to the highest bidder weren't slaves, than you have effectively made the word slavery useless. Because those scenarios fall under the definition of slavery - people who weren't obligated to their masters all of their lives, who didn't suffer the worst abuses imaginable and who were forced to do so or face death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery

I lost my train of thought in that argument. I don't know why you are bringing sexual assaults and etc into this.

Yeah, there are different levels of slavery and murder. Self-defence usually isn't bad. But the only thing I am concluding with your argument is that it is ok to enslave someone as long I treat him with respect. So you are saying that humans can be pets and therefore we are not all equal?



Let's imagine this scenario: 

I am a noble of some kingdom that allows slavery. One day I see another noble shopping slaves and he wants to buy a girl.

I find myself pitying that girl and I buy her so I can free her later.

I used slavery rules for a good thing, but would this have happened if that kingdom didn't allowed slavery? 


In medieval times they imprisoned enemy soldiers to ramsom or to free them later, another times they executed them. While the Romans usually put them in the Circus and their only way out was winning every fight.

I can understand the medieval lords but don't the romans just seem like cats playing with food? Or in case of slaves that didn't go to the arena, don't you think the romans were just exploring them before they died?

Modifié par JCAP, 26 décembre 2013 - 09:24 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

It wouldn't be realistic for them all to ditch. Fighting is all they know, and they're being offered a chance to do it. Some of the ones who the training didn't stick so well to would ditch, and I think that they did in the text. But the majority of them, I think, would do what the majority of the Unsullied did.

[Osena109]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Osena109 wrote...

 Id be down to owning a slave army like the  unsullied  but id free them like danny  did to earn there trust  to fight for me

And if they, much more realistically, said "screw this, I'm outta here" and left you high-and-dry for an army, how would that make you feel?

I don't think they would you  would be giveing them  option not forceing them and that is all the unsullied know is war so i think they would fallow  on that merit alone what other skills do they have that is there lot am sure they can not read or do math they sure can not  make familys as they lack the tools

[AlexanderCousland]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...
Oh Jimmy Boi.
Indentured servitude isn't even historically recognized as a concept until 1723.

...okay? Is anything after 1722 not considered history all of a sudden? Because I know some American History experts who would, quite staunchly, agree that events that happened between 1723 and today count as history.

You still haven't proved an indentured servant is a slave AND you didn't even provide a link to the definition of indentured servitude. 

YOU: indentured servant = Slave
Me : NO 

But I don't have a problem that slavery is a subject in Dragon Age, adds to the experience.

I already linked to the Wikipedia article on slavery. I'll post it again, just because I like you so much.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery

Oh, and here is the link to the Indentured Servitude Wikipedia page as well. You'll notice it classifies it as a form of "white slavery". And that it goes in a LITTLE more detail than a dictionary. And has more verified sources as well.

http://en.wikipedia....tured_servitude

Don't know why you'd think the categorization of White Slavery would interest me but.....

It should tell you something that the title Indentured Servitude has its own definition
and the title Slave has another BUT I waive the white flag because we are running in circles.





Nice convo tho.

[Sully13]

That was my point about the choice freeing a slave army and helping a former inslaved people sounds cool to me.