154 réponses à ce sujet

[Marakov7]

Almost forgot...I did do one playthrough as a dwarf noble. I led Bhelen to believe that I was siding with him, but betrayed him at the very end by choosing Harrowmont - was disappointed that I didn't get more of a reaction from him. Then I showed my baby brother that I believed in a less-subtle form of Dwarven politics - I decapitated him, stuck his head on a pike outside of the Chamber of Assembly, and shouted "Okay, who's next?" Getting no response, I left Orzammar.

Only bad thing about that scenario is that my child with Mardy didn't get his birthright restored. Gotta look at the big picture: the kid's dad is gonna be famous, my warden will take care of his financial obligations, and the boy can tell his friends "My daddy killed the archdemon, what has yours done?" Instant respect...just gotta be a little patient.

Modifié par Marakov7, 27 décembre 2013 - 04:42 .

[daveliam]

When I play a dwarf, I always go Harrowmont with Aeducans and Bhelen with commoners. It makes sense with the storylines. The Aeducan wouldn't support the brother who betrayed him/her and would rather honor his/her father's request by putting Harrowmont on the throne. The commoner would support Bhelen because then Rica and her child would be raised up to noble class.

When I play another race, with has only happened in one play through, I went with Bhelen because he was the "rightful" heir from an outsider's perspective.

I hate metagaming if it would go against what I think my character would do. I prefer the Bhelen ending, but I just couldn't see either of my Aeducan's supporting Bhelen after what he did.

[Toasted Llama]

daveliam wrote...

I hate metagaming if it would go against what I think my character would do. I prefer the Bhelen ending, but I just couldn't see either of my Aeducan's supporting Bhelen after what he did.

This. Only argument I could give for my f!Aeducan is that she prefers a rough hand to get the job done and that she gave Bhelen's wit credit, but the fact that he did no proper research who would support his ideas (which my f!Aeducan would) and just slaughter anyone who had the potential of stealing the throne, was too ruthless even for my f!Aeducan.

[General TSAR]

If you care about the casteless then Bhelen.

[DRTJR]

My playthroughs were as such.
City Elf rouge, Bhelen although he hated him, Bhelen was the King Orzammar needed not the one they deserved.

Blood mage Elf, she needed not just more but better troops ergo Bhelen. Although no Anvil That would be a bridge too far.

Dalish Elf Warrior, Bhelen and gave him the Anvil.

[Afro_Explosion]

My both my dwarf noble and commoner side with bhelen for their son or rica.

[badboy64]

I always sided with Bhelen.

Modifié par badboy64, 27 décembre 2013 - 06:10 .

[Han Shot First]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Bhelen: Bad Man, Good King

Harrowmont: Good Man, Bad King

I went with Bhelen.

I just love how harrowmont goes as good man just because he is lawful sure he may be obsessed about dwarves laws but he isn't good guy.Guy is just pri*** that hate casteless.

Both are di*** but at least behlen try improve others life not mindlessly follow dwarven abusive laws.

Harrowmont is flawed, but I'd still consider him a good man. He isn't an oathbreaker or regicide or a kinslayer like Bhelen, and unlike Bhelen he does not lust for power. Keep in mind that in medieval cultures, oath-breaking, regicide and kinslaying are the worst crimes a person can commit. And Bhelen has done all three.  Harrowmont wants the throne because he was charged with ruling by the fallen king, and he considers it his duty. In contrast Bhelen wants the throne for the power and priveleges it bestows, and he was willing to murder for it.

While Harrowmont's prejudice against the casteless makes him a deeply flawed man, he is also very much a man of his times. The rest of dwarven society looks down on the casteless, and Harrowmont isn't alone in those views. You have to take into account the culture he belongs to.

Also Bhelen's crusade to improve the lot of the casteless doesn't necessarily wash away his sins and make him a saint. That is particularly the case considering it was most likely motivated, at least in part, by realpolitik. Bhelen may genuinely sympathize with the lot of the casteless, but I have no doubt he is also motivated to lift them up because it would give him a very large base of diehard supporters. It would offset whatever opposition there was to his rule amongst certain factions of the nobility, warrior, and smith castes.

That all being said I chose Bhelen with my canon Warden (human noble), because it was obvious to an outsider that Orzammar needed to change if it was to survive. Harrowmont was a traditionalist, whereas despite being completely immoral and power-hungry, Bhelen had the vision to institute radical change. 

[Dabrikishaw]

Harrowmont for my Aeducans and Bhelen for everyone else.

[Zered]

Bah the casteless are usless anyway.

[Grieving Natashina]

michalooo wrote...

Bah the casteless are usless anyway.

My Dwarf Commoner Warden would like a word with you.  Don't mind the dripping dagger, she just..uh...killed some Darkspawn.  Yeah, that's it, nothing to worry about. 

[Angrywolves]

Starsyn wrote...

michalooo wrote...

Bah the casteless are usless anyway.

My Dwarf Commoner Warden would like a word with you.  Don't mind the dripping dagger, she just..uh...killed some Darkspawn.  Yeah, that's it, nothing to worry about. 

Like the untouchables from Indian society, it's unfair for therm to be treated as nonpersons.
They have value.<_<

[Knight of Dane]

Harrowmont with my Dwarf noble(s)

Bhelen with most others.

[Zered]

Angrywolves wrote...

Starsyn wrote...

michalooo wrote...

Bah the casteless are usless anyway.

My Dwarf Commoner Warden would like a word with you.  Don't mind the dripping dagger, she just..uh...killed some Darkspawn.  Yeah, that's it, nothing to worry about. 

Like the untouchables from Indian society, it's unfair for therm to be treated as nonpersons.
They have value.<_<

Yep, for instance I'd value them as cannon fodder agains't the spawn

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

michalooo wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

Starsyn wrote...

michalooo wrote...

Bah the casteless are usless anyway.

My Dwarf Commoner Warden would like a word with you.  Don't mind the dripping dagger, she just..uh...killed some Darkspawn.  Yeah, that's it, nothing to worry about. 

Like the untouchables from Indian society, it's unfair for therm to be treated as nonpersons.
They have value.<_<

Yep, for instance I'd value them as cannon fodder agains't the spawn

That's more value than Harrowmont gives them.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Marakov7 wrote...

Only bad thing about that scenario is that my child with Mardy didn't get his birthright restored. Gotta look at the big picture: the kid's dad is gonna be famous, my warden will take care of his financial obligations, and the boy can tell his friends "My daddy killed the archdemon, what has yours done?" Instant respect...just gotta be a little patient.

Did you go to Harrowmont about your kid? If not, there's only so much comfort he gets out of your exploits, on account of living in Dust Town.

[Marakov7]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Marakov7 wrote...

Only bad thing about that scenario is that my child with Mardy didn't get his birthright restored. Gotta look at the big picture: the kid's dad is gonna be famous, my warden will take care of his financial obligations, and the boy can tell his friends "My daddy killed the archdemon, what has yours done?" Instant respect...just gotta be a little patient.

Did you go to Harrowmont about your kid? If not, there's only so much comfort he gets out of your exploits, on account of living in Dust Town.

I had made arrangements with Bhelen but those went out the window when I double-crossed him...hmm, never thought about trying to make arrangements with Harrowmont after the fact. As far as the kid living in Dustown, that's what I was referring to when I said that my warden would take care of his financial obligations - can't imagine any of my wardens flipping burgers at the Thedasian version of McDonald's after ending the blight. Yeah, head cannon, but that's all I got. lol

[Mecha Elf]

Bhelen because he brings change to the dwarves

[rasloveszev]

Fortlowe wrote...

I think the jury is still out on who wound up being a better king. Both are examples of how to lead. One with compassion. The other with ambition. Harrowmont dies a good man. Bhelen lives to grow more corrupt.

Are you serious?! Harrowmount's the kind of politician that takes dumps on poor people and causes the Dwarves to become isolated. Harrowmount doesn't even die a good man, he dies a terrible leader. The reason why he might have been assassinated is because he restricted trade and rights of the Casteless!

[satunnainen]

To be honest, both of them are flawed as leaders.

Harrowmount is too stuck to the old and traditional ways. You could say that the whole dwarven culture is the same way, but he does not have a vision or courage to make the needed changes, In the end he is stuck between the traditionalists and the ones who want changes, and their ever increasing fights.

Bhelen on the other hand is a power hungry maniac who will do anything to get the leadership. If he helps the dwarven community while leading, its only by accident. He will sacrifice any amount of people if he thinks he will gain something by doing it.

Harrowmount might be a better person, but sometimes you need a tyrant to make changes. Bhelen on the other hand can make results. His motives are unclear, so giving full power to such person is a huge risk.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Han Shot First wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Bhelen: Bad Man, Good King

Harrowmont: Good Man, Bad King

I went with Bhelen.

I just love how harrowmont goes as good man just because he is lawful sure he may be obsessed about dwarves laws but he isn't good guy.Guy is just pri*** that hate casteless.

Both are di*** but at least behlen try improve others life not mindlessly follow dwarven abusive laws.

Harrowmont is flawed, but I'd still consider him a good man. He isn't an oathbreaker or regicide or a kinslayer like Bhelen, and unlike Bhelen he does not lust for power. Keep in mind that in medieval cultures, oath-breaking, regicide and kinslaying are the worst crimes a person can commit. And Bhelen has done all three.  Harrowmont wants the throne because he was charged with ruling by the fallen king, and he considers it his duty. In contrast Bhelen wants the throne for the power and priveleges it bestows, and he was willing to murder for it.

While Harrowmont's prejudice against the casteless makes him a deeply flawed man, he is also very much a man of his times. The rest of dwarven society looks down on the casteless, and Harrowmont isn't alone in those views. You have to take into account the culture he belongs to.

Also Bhelen's crusade to improve the lot of the casteless doesn't necessarily wash away his sins and make him a saint. That is particularly the case considering it was most likely motivated, at least in part, by realpolitik. Bhelen may genuinely sympathize with the lot of the casteless, but I have no doubt he is also motivated to lift them up because it would give him a very large base of diehard supporters. It would offset whatever opposition there was to his rule amongst certain factions of the nobility, warrior, and smith castes.

That all being said I chose Bhelen with my canon Warden (human noble), because it was obvious to an outsider that Orzammar needed to change if it was to survive. Harrowmont was a traditionalist, whereas despite being completely immoral and power-hungry, Bhelen had the vision to institute radical change. 

Well thats up to you some see mages as good guys orther templars morality judgment is up to you but in reality both morally are low.In practice law doesn't make you better harowmonnt abuse others with law and don't give single fu*** about that only about his "duty" (what doesn't make him better person) behlen is chaotic when harrowmont is lawful both are pr*** but as i said behlen in his selfishness improve someone life.So someone might don't respect his methods but have to respect what he achieved when harrowmont is foolish abusive pr*** that didn't do nothing.

So as i said it isn't good vs evil where harrowmont is knight in shining armor and behlen is classical villain.It is order vs chaos in grey shades.  

[DarthSideus2]

I usually destroy the Anvil and choose Harrowmont.

[WidePaul]

I've just finished a playthrough with bhelen chosen for first time ever, and will be doing a female dwarf playthrough (not decided on noble or commoner yet) who will side with harrowmont

[rasloveszev]

WidePaul wrote...

I've just finished a playthrough with bhelen chosen for first time ever, and will be doing a female dwarf playthrough (not decided on noble or commoner yet) who will side with harrowmont

It's easier to choose Harrowmont if you're the noble.

[superdeathdealer14]

I had tried the dwarf noble origin story and after I finished it I instantly knew that I would always choose Harrowmont I kept using Harrowmont for at least 3 playthroughs and I couldn't understand why I kept getting a "bad ending" for Orzammar.

Until for my main character I finally tried choosing Bhelen that and my main character has the same douchebag nature of Bhelen, and after seeing how choosing Bhelen over Harrowmont has a better ending, I always go for Bhelen now. Oh sure Bhelen is a douche but at least he is a benefit to Orzammar instead of making it an even worse cesspit then before.

Modifié par superdeathdealer14, 30 décembre 2013 - 05:41 .