101 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Angrywolves wrote...

I bet annually more women were taken and turned into sex slaves by slavers than taken and turned into Broodmothers by Darkspawn.

not sure if that's true.

I changed it to non-Darkspawn.

[Big I]

I loved the Architect and loved the Disciples when they weren't  trying to kill me. I didn't really understand Coryheus, but the idea of a magister turned darkspawn over a thousand years old is awesome. Bring on more intelligent darkspawn.

[Augustei]

I do want more intelligent Darkspawn yes, What I certainly don't want to happen however is Bioware trying that crap they did with the Geth and attempting to make them sympathetic... So that rules out a Darkspawn companion as well which I think is a stupid idea, and yes I thought Legion was a stupid idea but not to the level of a Darkspawn companion

[Mecha Elf]

Yes because they have unknown motives at the moment so they could be either evil or good idk

[Paul E Dangerously]

I'll leave the whole rape and breeding argument and whatsit to others, but I'd rather not see the Darkspawn get the "poor ol' us" status the Geth got in ME3. Don't get me wrong, I actually liked the fact the Quarians were in the wrong there, but the Darkspawn aren't sympathetic. They've killed hundreds of thousands at the very least, and corrupt the land - in some cases, irreversibly.

[Orctavius]

Yes, I thought the Architect was a great character even though my warden killed his face. It would be silly for there to be another blight so soon, so if the Darkspawn are to appear in any future DA games in a significant capacity, they need to have more motivation than grrr kill grrr ect. Not that they don't make good rampaging evil hordes, but there's no reason we can't have both.

[In Exile]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
A small civil war. There was no way that more than tiny fraction of Darkspawn were with either the Arcitect or Mother. And I'm not advocating a complete utopia, I'm advocating more the Darkspawn become more isolationist as they seem to have been doing if you spare the Architect. The Darkspawn need nothing from us, so there's no need to be in contact with races that hate them.  

The darkspawn need rape factories to create more darkspawn, and they need to have blood farms to create more Awakened darkspawn. A "small civil war" (almost entirely) obliterated Amaranthine and most of northern Ferelden. What if another "small civil war" happens in the future? Darkspawn are going to need women to rape to bolster their forces and people to bleed to bolster their Awakened darkspawn numbers. 

And, no, you're advocating for a utopia. Because you're advocating for a society where darkspawn don't comit crimes of violence against each other and have a kind of political unity that's been impossible to achieve IRL for our entire existence as a species. 

Would there still be a few bands that occasionally kidnap and possibly rape women? Probably. And yet even when mindless monsters, I bet annually more women were taken and turned into sex slaves by non-Darkspawn than taken and turned into Broodmothers by Darkspawn. 

Human trafficking, as horrible as it is, still gets outdone by what the darkspawn do. And the scale of it, too. 

[Macgeezy731]

I think in a way that the best way to present the dark spawn is the same way that Tolkien did with the Orcs. ultimately they were led by some insanely powerful and intelligent beings, while the rest retained just enough sentience to be just above feral creatures. I think that suits the "Darkspawn" well, with either some fallen magister like corypheus or then again some old god. Also whats to say that the Architect isn't some magister's apprentice that followed them into the black city and was too weak to keep his identity but powerful enough obviously to manipulate other darkspawn?

(before some one bashes me with quotes from David Gaider in an interview or a comment I haven't read, realize that this is just my own person idea on the Architects origin. however incorrect it may be)

[Rolling Flame]

In Exile wrote...

Darkspawn are going to need women to rape to bolster their forces...

Sorry for being picky, but I'm not sure that's entirely true. The kossith women who were transformed before the First Blight are apparently still going strong, given the continued existence of the Ogres. I think it's realistic to assume that the Darkspawn have many broodmothers hidden away in the darkest pits of the Deep Roads, which enable them to replenish their numbers after a Blight.

So, unless something cataclymic happens to those broodmothers, I don't believe intellgent Darkspawn would need scores of women to rape. Of course, whether or not it is a primal urge of theirs is another matter.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Intelligent Darkspawn romance for DA:I

[Invisible Man]

The Sin wrote...

Intelligent Darkspawn romance for DA:I

I hope bioware doesn't take you seriously. *shutters*

[Vortex13]

In Exile wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...
If the actions of the Inquisition are being spurned by a world threating demon invasion; the kind of threat where everyone will die if it is not dealt with; then I see no reason why the narrative needs to explain how the Awakened allies will integrate with society hundreds of years from the time the story takes place, or even that they need to integrate with society. If we are looking at a do or die scenario, I don't think that people would look a gift horse in the mouth too closely if we had an Awakened like the Messenger offering aid; the common militia of Amaranthine didn't seem too offended at accepting a Darkspawn's help.

The game needs to explain why we allow the Awakened rape factories to continue unabated, why the rape factories are somehow a morally better choice than just killing the lot of them and dealing with the demon invasion alone, and why every group in Thedas is suddenly OK with the idea of things that literally poison all of existence massing an army and crossing into their lands - the thing which is a blight by definition. Darkspawn are the closest thing to absolute evil in the setting, and are, in theological terms, basically devils. 

Let's work with the rape abominations requires a lot of justifications, since at minimum you have to sell everyone on the fact that they're less bad than the demons. Who don't poison the land. And who, in the endgame, would be banished forever beyond the Veil. 

DA:A has the people that opened with "kill it immediately on sight" not react to the "let it help option", but that looks like a complete failure of the game as opposed to a plausible reaction, given how strongly they then advocate for killing it if you tie it up. 

Who said that allying with Darkspawn in DA:I would mean agreeing to rape factories? I would be assuming that the amount of Darksapwn would be comparable to the amount of mages that helped the player in DA:O (at most); a small elite fighting force.

Awakened could make for powerful mages, as the Taint is theoretically more powerful then Blood Magic since it doesn't require blood to work. Or failing that, Darkspawn could make for excellent guides into the Deep Roads; more so then the Dwarves; and could help the player in locating alternate routes, lyrium deposits (red and blue), or the location of Darkspawn concentrations.

Yes, it is entirely possible that your Awakened allies could go 'bad' in the future, but it is no more then what the werewolves did in DA:O. Also the werewolves (if chosen over the elves) don't start infecting the other members of your army once you have them in the ranks, to bolster their numbers. There is absolutely no indication that they infect others until after the final battle, and the Blight is ended.

Again, this doesn't have to be like ME 3, were every single plot and decision is wrapped up before the ending of the game. Working with Awakened in DA:I wouldn't have to equate to finding a permanent solution to their condition, or their role in greater Thedas society. 

[Angrywolves]

There won't be any awakened allies in DAI.
I feel sure fixing the veil tears and stabilizing the countries will be the top priority.
Whether a player killed the Architect or not in Awakening will of course determine if the Architect plays a future role. Whether the Architect can create awakened darkspawn or influence darkspawn to somehow ameliorate/change their behavior remains to be seen.
Certainly the Architect doersn't seem shy about killing for his research and we don't know if he will stop killing or agree to terms that he will keep with the rest of humanity.

Personally I am not in favor of darkspawn allies or trying to ally with them in any sense.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

In Exile wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
A small civil war. There was no way that more than tiny fraction of Darkspawn were with either the Arcitect or Mother. And I'm not advocating a complete utopia, I'm advocating more the Darkspawn become more isolationist as they seem to have been doing if you spare the Architect. The Darkspawn need nothing from us, so there's no need to be in contact with races that hate them.  

The darkspawn need rape factories to create more darkspawn, and they need to have blood farms to create more Awakened darkspawn. A "small civil war" (almost entirely) obliterated Amaranthine and most of northern Ferelden. What if another "small civil war" happens in the future? Darkspawn are going to need women to rape to bolster their forces and people to bleed to bolster their Awakened darkspawn numbers. 

And, no, you're advocating for a utopia. Because you're advocating for a society where darkspawn don't comit crimes of violence against each other and have a kind of political unity that's been impossible to achieve IRL for our entire existence as a species. 

Would there still be a few bands that occasionally kidnap and possibly rape women? Probably. And yet even when mindless monsters, I bet annually more women were taken and turned into sex slaves by non-Darkspawn than taken and turned into Broodmothers by Darkspawn. 

Human trafficking, as horrible as it is, still gets outdone by what the darkspawn do. And the scale of it, too. 

1. I never said the Darkspawn should all hold hands and sing the Friendship Song. All I said was they seemed to be going for an isolationist society, according to the Epilogue slides. There are sure to be conflicts, just because that's the cost of sentience: they'll get different opinions. But the cost will be smaller for both sides from that than if they find another Old God to awaken and start another Blight. The one in Origins was surprisingly small in comparison to the others that razed the entire continent. 

2. I'm not saying it isn't. But the former happens a lot more. You encounter a lot of slaver rings, and yet the Darkspawn raiding parties are never mentioned aside from Alistair saying there is the occasional one. If it happened as often as slavers, then the surface races would have joined the Dwarves in going into the Deep Roads to exterminate them ages ago.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Rolling Flame wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Darkspawn are going to need women to rape to bolster their forces...

Sorry for being picky, but I'm not sure that's entirely true. The kossith women who were transformed before the First Blight are apparently still going strong, given the continued existence of the Ogres. I think it's realistic to assume that the Darkspawn have many broodmothers hidden away in the darkest pits of the Deep Roads, which enable them to replenish their numbers after a Blight.

So, unless something cataclymic happens to those broodmothers, I don't believe intellgent Darkspawn would need scores of women to rape. Of course, whether or not it is a primal urge of theirs is another matter.

Exactly. As stated before, by you I might add In Exile, the Darkspawn are ageless. They do not die of old age. Or disease since they are disease personified. The only way they die is to be killed by someone or something. And we know the Darkspawn are very protective of their Broodmothers from Origins and Awakening. So if the Darkspawn stop their offensive actions by following the Awakened, then they will not lose the numbers that garner the need to create new Broodmothers. The only reason they do now is the constant war with the Dwarfs.

[Angrywolves]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Rolling Flame wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Darkspawn are going to need women to rape to bolster their forces...

Sorry for being picky, but I'm not sure that's entirely true. The kossith women who were transformed before the First Blight are apparently still going strong, given the continued existence of the Ogres. I think it's realistic to assume that the Darkspawn have many broodmothers hidden away in the darkest pits of the Deep Roads, which enable them to replenish their numbers after a Blight.

So, unless something cataclymic happens to those broodmothers, I don't believe intellgent Darkspawn would need scores of women to rape. Of course, whether or not it is a primal urge of theirs is another matter.

Exactly. As stated before, by you I might add In Exile, the Darkspawn are ageless. They do not die of old age. Or disease since they are disease personified. The only way they die is to be killed by someone or something. And we know the Darkspawn are very protective of their Broodmothers from Origins and Awakening. So if the Darkspawn stop their offensive actions by following the Awakened, then they will not lose the numbers that garner the need to create new Broodmothers. The only reason they do now is the constant war with the Dwarfs.

Not sure the darkspawn don't die assertion is accurate.

Since players are always asking me for links, I am asking for one. or some proof of that assertion.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Angrywolves wrote...
Not sure the darkspawn don't die assertion is accurate.

Since players are always asking me for links, I am asking for one. or some proof of that assertion.

I've only heard it from other people, so I have no links sorry. So far the only evidence for it that I have found is Corypheus, who is a Darkspawn Emisarry who has lived ever since him and his fellow Tevinter magistrates went into the Golden City, which was hundres of years ago, so long past a human life span.

[Angrywolves]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...
Not sure the darkspawn don't die assertion is accurate.

Since players are always asking me for links, I am asking for one. or some proof of that assertion.

I've only heard it from other people, so I have no links sorry. So far the only evidence for it that I have found is Corypheus, who is a Darkspawn Emisarry who has lived ever since him and his fellow Tevinter magistrates went into the Golden City, which was hundres of years ago, so long past a human life span.

Corypheus isn't an ordinary darkspawn.He's one of the original Tevinter mages that entered the Golden City.
Plus he was a Dumat worshipper.So his immortality if true could be from other sources.

[Vortex13]

Angrywolves wrote...

There won't be any awakened allies in DAI.
I feel sure fixing the veil tears and stabilizing the countries will be the top priority.
Whether a player killed the Architect or not in Awakening will of course determine if the Architect plays a future role. Whether the Architect can create awakened darkspawn or influence darkspawn to somehow ameliorate/change their behavior remains to be seen.
Certainly the Architect doersn't seem shy about killing for his research and we don't know if he will stop killing or agree to terms that he will keep with the rest of humanity.

Personally I am not in favor of darkspawn allies or trying to ally with them in any sense.

I can see your and In Exile's side of things, but I do hope for some more interaction with the non-human/elf/dwarf/qunari races of Thedas. Darkspawn as allies is asking for a lot; I will admit; but I would prefer at least some alliance between the player and (if not Awakened then) some fantasy creature. 

It just doesn't make sense that things like werewolves or Sylvan (or Awakened) would not try and help the one party seeking to stop the demon invasion that is threatening everything. In ME 3 is wasn't just the Humans and Turians doing all the fighting, even the less combat capable races stepped up to help in some form or fashion.

IMO it would be disappointing if only the humans, elves, dwarves, and qunari were the only forces trying to do anything about the Fade tear, especially since it has been shown in the past titles that things like werewolves, Sylvan, Awakened (well just the Messenger) etc. are quite capable of working with the player towards a common goal.

[Akka le Vil]

I find the "ununderstandable" horde threat to be much more compelling, frightening and effective. Also, it helps making it different than just a cosmetically different human - the mind is completely alien.

On top of that, I a bit tired of the now-conventionnal "showing unexpected depth in the enemy". It's become so overused that the "unexpected" part now happens only if the enemy actually STAYS unfathomable and evil.

As such, I LOATHE the "intelligent" darkspawn. I'm fine with them being cunning in their own way, but I'd like it to be so utterly alien and evil that we can't understand them, and above all I'd like to keep a total impossibility to communicate. If you can communicate, you can understand, and if you can understand, the menace loses its mystery and its inherent frightening quality.
Also, it opens the door to the also-overused "it's all a misunderstanding" (non)twist.

The Zergs were already ruined with this. Please keep at least one mindless, evil, uncomprensible, mysterious horde that you can't reason with.

[Vortex13]

Akka le Vil wrote...

I find the "ununderstandable" horde threat to be much more compelling, frightening and effective. Also, it helps making it different than just a cosmetically different human - the mind is completely alien.

On top of that, I a bit tired of the now-conventionnal "showing unexpected depth in the enemy". It's become so overused that the "unexpected" part now happens only if the enemy actually STAYS unfathomable and evil.

As such, I LOATHE the "intelligent" darkspawn. I'm fine with them being cunning in their own way, but I'd like it to be so utterly alien and evil that we can't understand them, and above all I'd like to keep a total impossibility to communicate. If you can communicate, you can understand, and if you can understand, the menace loses its mystery and its inherent frightening quality.
Also, it opens the door to the also-overused "it's all a misunderstanding" (non)twist.

The Zergs were already ruined with this. Please keep at least one mindless, evil, uncomprensible, mysterious horde that you can't reason with.

You can still have an enemy capable of communication, but still be Culthulu-esqe in nature. The Pre-Catalyst Reapers, or the Brethren Moons of Dead Space being prime examples. 

[Akka le Vil]

Vortex13 wrote...

You can still have an enemy capable of communication, but still be Culthulu-esqe in nature. The Pre-Catalyst Reapers, or the Brethren Moons of Dead Space being prime examples. 

True, but it's still much less disturbing and frightening than a foe you can't understand nor communicate with. The "mindless horde" archetype exists for a reason.

[Angrywolves]

The sylvans were insane.The old tree said so, so they can hardly become allies.

Vortex 13 said:

"I can see your and In Exile's side of things, but I do hope for some more interaction with the non-human/elf/dwarf/qunari races of Thedas. Darkspawn as allies is asking for a lot; I will admit; but I would prefer at least some alliance between the player and (if not Awakened then) some fantasy creature. "

Don't know what you mean by a fantasy creature.
We've got humans, plain humans, some templars, some mages, elves, dwarves(probably Orzammar and Kal Sharok) qunari and presumably some Tal Vashoth, Flemeth, whatever she is, probably some apostate mages like Flemeth Daughters,maybe some good spirits such as the one that helped Wynne,and who knows what else.
Don't want darkspawn allies.Anything else that hasn't been an enemy of mankind can be an ally.

[Nerevar-as]

Intelligent enemies seem to be more interesting, but I liked the originals better - they are like a force of nature, uncaring and merciless, no reasoning is possible and only death stops them. I think it´s a simpler way to create a fearful nemesis, writing an intelligent enemy that feels terrible can be done, but an horde? The always Evil societies D&D like don´t do it for me, it´s hard to buy 99.999% of the population are psychos.

[Angrywolves]

I had suggested the possibility of other creatures in other threads.
Since some of the fade rifts are underwater I had suggested intelligent ocean life.Dolphins or porpoises.Players didn't seem interested in that.I mention "deep one"cthulhu mythos type creatures.Players didn't seem interested in those . I had mentioned dark elves like those in BG2. Players seemed to be adamantly against that.

We will see the Fex from Par Vollen at some point.That may not be until DA4 though.

So I don't know what else we'll see in DAI.