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[Rotward]

My instinct is to say mages, but that really depends on the specific mages and templars. I'm certainly not going to pick mages if they're taking slaves and turning into abominations left and right.

Honestly, if I can, I'll choose to destroy both.

[KainD]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

KainD wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
I'm not understanding your position.

Are you saiyng we should never use quarantene/Circles?
Or that we should kill all potential infected/mages?

Both. 

Seems kinda harsh dunnit?

No, seems honest an rational. If a group posses direct threat to you, and there is no way around that threat, it's better to just eliminate said group, than to compromise your safety while at the same time not even giving that group their full rights as well. Compromise is a lose/lose. 
If you eliminate one side, then the other one will be more happy, and dead don't care. 

Tevinter does it right - they are honest, the strongest rule, and mages are a superior race. 
Qunari do it right, their mages are completely controlled by their masters with special rods, mages do something useful. 
Tranquil solution does it right - removes magic while at the same time makes use of the body, which is very similar to what Qunari do.
Outright killing mages is a good solution in a non magocracy society, which might simply be seen by some as more merciful than Tranquil or Qunari solution. 
Circle solution - bullsh*t solution that doesn't work. 

There's also Dalish, but that kind of attitude works only in small community, because everybody is in their little monkey sphere, so they care for each other a lot more, mage or not. 

Modifié par KainD, 30 décembre 2013 - 08:53 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

KainD wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

KainD wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
I'm not understanding your position.

Are you saiyng we should never use quarantene/Circles?
Or that we should kill all potential infected/mages?

Both. 

Seems kinda harsh dunnit?

No, seems honest an rational. If a group posses direct threat to you, and there is no way around that threat, it's better to just eliminate said group, than to compromise your safety while at the same time not even giving that group their full rights as well. Compromise is a lose/lose. 
If you eliminate one side, then the other one will be more happy, and dead don't care. 

Tevinter does it right - they are honest, the strongest rule, and mages are a superior race. 
Qunari do it right, their mages are completely controlled by their masters with special rods, mages do something useful. 
Tranquil solution does it right - removes magic while at the same time makes use of the body, which is very similar to what Qunari do.
Outright killing mages is a good solution in a non magocracy society, which might simply be seen by some as more merciful than Tranquil or Qunari solution. 
Circle solution - bullsh*t solution that doesn't work. 

There's also Dalish, but that kind of attitude works only in small community, because everybody is in their little monkey sphere, so they care for each other a lot more, mage or not. 

"Look at me! I am so hardcore, dark and gritty on the internet! I totally advocate the abject butchering of thousands of people, because that is like the totally rational thing to do!"

The Circle solution works fine, it controls the amges, contains the threat they pose, and allows them to increase their mastery of the magical arts. All the while it allows the mundanes to lead a life completely uninfluenced by magic.

There is no need for the brutality of the Qunari, the stupidity of the Tranquil Solution, or the oppression of Tevinter.

And no... Mages are obviously NOT a superior race, otherwise they would rule unrivaled. They don't. Proving your asinine statement wrong.

[KainD]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
"Look at me! I am so hardcore, dark and gritty on the internet! I totally advocate the abject butchering of thousands of people, because that is like the totally rational thing to do!"

The Circle solution works fine, it controls the amges, contains the threat they pose, and allows them to increase their mastery of the magical arts. All the while it allows the mundanes to lead a life completely uninfluenced by magic.

There is no need for the brutality of the Qunari, the stupidity of the Tranquil Solution, or the oppression of Tevinter.

And no... Mages are obviously NOT a superior race, otherwise they would rule unrivaled. They don't. Proving your asinine statement wrong.

You are just calling the OTHER half of Thedas stupid. Ironically it's the circles that broke, not the Qunari or Tevinter. 

Mages are a superior race, but the get overwhemed by numbers, as they are few. 

Modifié par KainD, 31 décembre 2013 - 12:25 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

KainD wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
"Look at me! I am so hardcore, dark and gritty on the internet! I totally advocate the abject butchering of thousands of people, because that is like the totally rational thing to do!"

The Circle solution works fine, it controls the amges, contains the threat they pose, and allows them to increase their mastery of the magical arts. All the while it allows the mundanes to lead a life completely uninfluenced by magic.

There is no need for the brutality of the Qunari, the stupidity of the Tranquil Solution, or the oppression of Tevinter.

And no... Mages are obviously NOT a superior race, otherwise they would rule unrivaled. They don't. Proving your asinine statement wrong.

You are just calling the OTHER half of Thedas stupid. Ironically it's the circles that broke, not the Qunari or Tevinter. 

Mages are a superior race, but the get overwhemed by numbers, as they are few. 

I highly doubt that half of Thedas was in support of the Tranquil Solution.... And I didn't say that the Tevinter or Qunari were stupid, I said that they were oppressive and brutal. Which is highly unecessary.

If a race does not have the breeding capability to keep its numbers up, and as a result gets overtaken, then it is NOT a superior race. Period. End of discussion. Superior means that it is the best suited for survival in ALL areas.
Not to mention that Mages are not even a seperate race to begin with, but we can let that slide for the sake of discussion.

[KainD]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
I highly doubt that half of Thedas was in support of the Tranquil Solution.... And I didn't say that the Tevinter or Qunari were stupid, I said that they were oppressive and brutal. Which is highly unecessary.

Improving life quality is highly unecesarry, ok. 

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
If a race does not have the breeding capability to keep its numbers up, and as a result gets overtaken, then it is NOT a superior race. Period. End of discussion. Superior means that it is the best suited for survival in ALL areas.
Not to mention that Mages are not even a seperate race to begin with, but we can let that slide for the sake of discussion.

Fair enough, if that is your definition. 

[thetinyevil]

I think my first play through is going to be a really pissed off mage who hates everyone especially the Chantry and wants to see the world burn. I wonder how that will screw the world up?

The next character will be a lot more sedate and even tempered.

[EmperorSahlertz]

KainD wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
I highly doubt that half of Thedas was in support of the Tranquil Solution.... And I didn't say that the Tevinter or Qunari were stupid, I said that they were oppressive and brutal. Which is highly unecessary.

Improving life quality is highly unecesarry, ok. 

Qunari improves the life quality of their mages? Tevinter improves the life quality of their slaves? Nope, don't think so.

KainD wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
If a race does not have the breeding capability to keep its numbers up, and as a result gets overtaken, then it is NOT a superior race. Period. End of discussion. Superior means that it is the best suited for survival in ALL areas.
Not to mention that Mages are not even a seperate race to begin with, but we can let that slide for the sake of discussion.

Fair enough, if that is your definition. 

What is your definition? To be able to do "more" than another race (again disregarding that mages are nota  seperate race)? Exactly what do you base your claim that mages are superior lifeforms on?

[KainD]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Qunari improves the life quality of their mages? Tevinter improves the life quality of their slaves? Nope, don't think so.

No, and why should they? That's not their primary concern. The ones that are in power, improve the life quality for themselves. You don't have to be a complete a&s to your subjects, treating them with some care never hurts, as long as they know their place, might even prove more effective, but you don't owe them anything either. 

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
What is your definition? To be able to do "more" than another race (again disregarding that mages are nota  seperate race)? Exactly what do you base your claim that mages are superior lifeforms on?

Surviveability + conviencience of life is my definition superiority. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...


The Circle solution works fine, it controls the amges, contains the threat they pose, and allows them to increase their mastery of the magical arts. All the while it allows the mundanes to lead a life completely uninfluenced by magic.

There is no need for the brutality of the Qunari, the stupidity of the Tranquil Solution, or the oppression of Tevinter.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 31 décembre 2013 - 09:08 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Magdalena11 wrote...
This was true hundreds of years ago.  Before the mess in Kirkwall, mages were permitted to travel and had some privacy and while things weren't right they weren't what they became later.  What I'm saying it is the chantry who has kept the hate and fear alive.

Fear keeps fear alive.
Enough with this stupid idea that people only fear mages because of the Chantry. Unlike the witch hunts in the middle ages, in TheDas witches actually exist. And they are actually terribly dangerous.

Take a look at the Qunari - did the Cahtnry tell them mages are dangerous? Nope.

Atheists can come to the simple conclusion that mages are dangerous and should be feared.

So yea....

If the warden and co. could wipe him out Irving and the other captive mages could have if Niall had reached them with the litany. 

Warden and co are special and don't prepresent the abilities of life-expectancy of others.
"But the Warden could kill X easily" means nothing.
It's a game.
You can have a 100 foot colossus made out of obsidian that you kill by hacking it with a sword, that doesn't make such a monster any less dangerous or any less likely to pulverize an entire army.

I would consider allowing mages more freedoms, including the right to marry and raise families, personal privacy in their own quarters and exist without fear of persecution outside the circle confines in regulated conditions minimum requirements.

They already have that. Peoepl are reading way too much into a rumor told by some young mages.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Magdalena11 wrote...
 Back to what to do if there's no cure - back to blocking the means of transmission not the sick person. 

Since we are talking about mages, that is the only scenario that matters. There is no cure, there are no detection methods, there is nothing.

And the "blocking means of transmission" is ironicly, tranquility.

Only people who are actively showing symptoms that put the population at risk are confined.  

Beign a mage IS an active condition.

An entire town will be quaranteed if the viral threat is deemed dangerous enough. Hell, NUKING the town would be acceptable in some cases.

No, that is just stupid - and completely ineffective to boot.

Give the poster a cigar!  I knew you'd get it.

Wht you dont' get it is that the comparions sucks, because in the case of mages it's NOT stupid and ineffective.

[EmperorSahlertz]

KainD wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Qunari improves the life quality of their mages? Tevinter improves the life quality of their slaves? Nope, don't think so.

No, and why should they? That's not their primary concern. The ones that are in power, improve the life quality for themselves. You don't have to be a complete a&s to your subjects, treating them with some care never hurts, as long as they know their place, might even prove more effective, but you don't owe them anything either. 

Why SHOULDN'T they work towards the improvement of life quality for all? And exactly WHAT do the subjects owe you of you are not even going to improve their life quality? Oh yeah, thats right: nothing.

KainD wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
What is your definition? To be able to do "more" than another race (again disregarding that mages are nota  seperate race)? Exactly what do you base your claim that mages are superior lifeforms on?

Surviveability + conviencience of life is my definition superiority. 

Neither of which is something mages have more of, than any other human being, defeating your own claim.... (not to mention that by your definition most bacteria are superior lifeforms to humans)

[Bayonet Hipshot]

MAGES FTW !

.....*In Darth Sidious' voice* ..... "Once more the mages will rule Thedas, and, we shall have peace....."

[Androme]

 Templars, of course. Peace and order is more important than the rights of a few.

Modifié par Androme, 31 décembre 2013 - 01:08 .

[dragonflight288]

Androme wrote...

 Templars, of course. Peace and order is more important than the rights of a few.

While many templars may work for peace and order, in Inquisition you will also have the Red Templars, and thsoe guys are most definitely NOT working for peace and order, period. Youth4Ever once linked me to a very possible leaked spoiler about them, and trust me, if that leak is right, then these guys don't even have good intentions and are just as bad as the worst blood mages of Tevinter.

If you want me to post the link to the possible spoiler, I can, but I don't know if you want the possible spoiler or not so I didn't link it immediately.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Red Templars are not Templars. If someone says they support the Templars, they are not in fact supporting the Red Templars, because Red Templars are not Templars.

[dragonflight288]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Red Templars are not Templars. If someone says they support the Templars, they are not in fact supporting the Red Templars, because Red Templars are not Templars.

They are the templars and seekers who left the Chantry, so they WERE templars, and they still wear the armor.

We as gamers will know the truth, but would the average citizen make the distinction between the men and women wearing templar armor who are burning down their village and killing all the citizens compared to the men and women wearing templar armor who are guarding the Chantry? Most won't.

Like it or hate it, the actions of the Red Templars WILL reflect poorly upon all templars, even the ones who aren't red templars.

[EmperorSahlertz]

They call the ex-Templars Red Templars, which means the people are capable of making the distinction between the Red Templars and the Templars.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Androme wrote...

 Templars, of course. Peace and order is more important than the rights of a few.

While many templars may work for peace and order, in Inquisition you will also have the Red Templars, and thsoe guys are most definitely NOT working for peace and order, period. Youth4Ever once linked me to a very possible leaked spoiler about them, and trust me, if that leak is right, then these guys don't even have good intentions and are just as bad as the worst blood mages of Tevinter.

If you want me to post the link to the possible spoiler, I can, but I don't know if you want the possible spoiler or not so I didn't link it immediately.

Could send me a link via PM..I am curious to see it...I have my own theories about them Red  Templars..would like to compare with another

Modifié par The Sin, 31 décembre 2013 - 01:46 .

[thetinyevil]

I would like that link as well.

[dragonflight288]

I'll look it up and post it later today. I'm off to a dentist appointment. Please be patient, I'll get to it after I get back.

[The Spirit of Dance]

Easy choice; Templars.

[dragonflight288]

Okay, I have the link.

Now before you dismiss what this completely anonymous poster said, remember that this came out before any significant information was announced by Bioware, and Red Templars weren't even announced yet this anonymous poster is talking about them. Thus far what he predicted is pretty accurate.

Specifically on page 2 is this segment.



POSSIBLE SPOILER ALERT FOR THOSE WHO DON'T WANT TO BE SPOILED BY A POST AN ANONYMOUS PERSON PUT OUT IN A FORUM, IGNORE WHAT FOLLOWS IF YOU DO NOT WANT RAISED EXPECTATIONS.










-You play as The Inquisitor, who runs the Inquisition

-Leliana is now an advisor to the Inquisitor, also is a leader of a group known as the Purple Crows

-There are two other advisors as well, one represents the Red Fist which is more militaristic while the other, the Gold Keys puts more emphasis on political stuff, they advise you on how to approach problems and you choose which way to go

-Morrigan returns, is now court mage to the Orlaisian empress

-Story focuses on trying to stop the Red Templars while trying to keep order throughout Orlais and Ferelden (The Red Templars are trying to cause havoc between the two in order to get you and everyone else off their tail)

-Game takes place in all sorts of places inbetween Orlais and Ferelden

-Main bad guy is trying to literally tear his way into the Black City in hopes of becoming a god, aparantly tore the sky open and stuff

and


Problem:The Red Templars are trying to start a war between Orlais and Ferelden so that they can break into the black city while everyone is distracted

Your job: To stop the Red Templars with your merry band of men as well as the help of three organizations.

As problems arise, you will go to these organizations for guidance. Which advice you take will ultimately change how you proceed with the quest.

For example, the Orlesian empress has planned a ball for all those of importance in the land. This is a prime opportunity for the Inquisition to gain allies, but there is a good chance that the Red Templars will also try to pull something off.

The Gold Keys will recommend that you seek the aid of the empress herself in order to attain well needed funds for the Inquisition.

The Red Fist will recommend that you seek the aid of the empress's brother, head of the orlesian military, so that you will have the manpower you need to combat the red templars.

The Purple Crows will recommend that you seek the aid of an elven ambassador looking to gain nobility from the empress so that you have the support and knowledge of the many elves throughout orlais and ferelden.

I personally don't know how much I believe it, but this stuff was posted last February, before anything was announced from Bioware.

Modifié par dragonflight288, 31 décembre 2013 - 03:56 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

We have known about the Red Templars ever since the first gameplay trailer last year (which was in February if I recall correctly).. And the poster is unsourced AND anonymous (which usually means complete and utter bull**** has been spewed). Don't put too much stock into this supposed "leak".
Especially since it is just Mass Effect 3's plot recoloured and reshaped to fit the DA setting.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 31 décembre 2013 - 04:07 .