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[The Elder King]

I agree with eluvianix. My human characters are generally against slavery and elven segregation.

[lil yonce]

hhh89 wrote...
@Youth4ever: I personally don't think the leak as many credibility. Expecially because it wasn't necessarily been posted in february. The first time people talked about it (not only there) was after the PAX demo, and there isn't a direct link to the post, but only a screenshot that could've been easily edited.

What screenshot - I'm not sure what you mean.

Plus, the things in the leak seems to be taken from the demo and changed in some way (the three allied groups rapresents the three types of keeps, with two names taken by images of objects present in the demo and one mixing a background of one of the keep's choices and the name of a known DA organization); the political part of the leak (Ferelden and Orlais clashing) is already known since DA2.

A few things could have been changed in development between now and February, and demo changes may reflect that - but I really don't see what's changed - I don't think I'm seeing what you're seeing here.

The main plot seems to be (to me anyway) to be ripped off from ME3.

I disagree, but I suppose we'll see when DA3 comes out.

[Hellion Rex]

MasterScribe wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

I agree with eluvianix. My human characters are generally against slavery and elven segregation.

I don't care. Shemlen, especially their mages, are dangerous. Elvhen and their mages need to be protected.

The only way is to infiltrate the templars and steer them away from Dalish clans.

By the way guys, I'm trying to add a new dynamic to this debate (and roleplay my character). 

Well, Dalish mages are just as "dangerous" as us shemlen. Hell, the Dalish magi seem more dangerous IMO, because they can command nature in ways that few mages outside the Dalish can replicate.

Modifié par eluvianix, 31 décembre 2013 - 06:46 .

[Hellion Rex]

MasterScribe wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

I agree with eluvianix. My human characters are generally against slavery and elven segregation.

I don't care. Shemlen, especially their mages, are dangerous. Elvhen and their mages need to be protected.

The only way is to infiltrate the templars and steer them away from Dalish clans.

By the way guys, I'm trying to add a new dynamic to this debate (and roleplay my character). 

By the way, did you see the new concept art from today? It looked related to the elvhen.

[The Elder King]

@Youth4ever: Sorry, back in september there wasn't a direct link to the 'leak', but only a screenshot. I saw not that the link dragonflight posted have the direct posts.
As for the changes, the leak talked about three main groups that supported the Inquisition. In the demo the 'allies' are reduced to the mere functions of the keep. It seems to me a big change, considering that the keeps' functions will unlikely have a role in main quests (as the advisors seem to have in the leak).

[Hellion Rex]

MasterScribe wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

I agree with eluvianix. My human characters are generally against slavery and elven segregation.

I don't care. Shemlen, especially their mages, are dangerous. Elvhen and their mages need to be protected.

The only way is to infiltrate the templars and steer them away from Dalish clans.

By the way guys, I'm trying to add a new dynamic to this debate (and roleplay my character). 

Well, Dalish mages are just as "dangerous" as us shemlen. Hell, the Dalish magi seem more dangerous IMO, because they can command nature in ways that few mages outside the Dalish can replicate.

Until a Dalish mage blows up a building and starts an international war, I will stand by my belief that shem are more dangerous than elves.

Must the elvhen always blame us shemlen? Surely better rights for us means better rights for you all too? :innocent:

[Invisible Man]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Invisible Man wrote...

as for people being able to differentiate between Templars & Red Templars. if you're relaxing in your backyard and enjoying a beer or whatever, and lets say... all of a sudden you see armed troops wearing SAS commando garb (for the sake of this discussion assume you know what sas uniforms look like) shooting up your street would you assume they aren't british commandos?

Since SAS uniforms are almost identical to normal british military uniforms, then no I wouldn't assume it was british special forces.

And Red Templars appears to be distinctly different in appearance to normal Templars. The red glow around them springs to mind.

the point I was getting at was: if you see what looks like british commandos would you automatically think they're IRA terrorists disguised as british paratroopers? or Airborne Rangers dressed as SAS commandos? 

[KainD]

hhh89 wrote...

I agree with eluvianix. My human characters are generally against slavery and elven segregation.

If elves don't stay segregated they will die out. Everytime they mate with humans, they become less in number, as offsprings are always human.

And we don't see dwarves living in big numbers with humans, why should elves? 

[KainD]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Why SHOULDN'T they work towards the improvement of life quality for all? And exactly WHAT do the subjects owe you of you are not even going to improve their life quality? Oh yeah, thats right: nothing.

Because everyone can't have everything. The more you give the less is left for yourself. Subjects are inferior and can be eliminated if they forget their place, they owe masters their lives. 

[Rotward]

KainD wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Why SHOULDN'T they work towards the improvement of life quality for all? And exactly WHAT do the subjects owe you of you are not even going to improve their life quality? Oh yeah, thats right: nothing.

Because everyone can't have everything. The more you give the less is left for yourself. Subjects are inferior and can be eliminated if they forget their place, they owe masters their lives. 

You and massivelyeffective would get along fantasticly. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Threat300 wrote...

If mages are given freedom, it'll likely turn into another version of the tevinter imperium where slavery & blood magic is encouraged. Will be alot of abominations caused by all the untrained mages too

Says who? Most mages don't want another Tevinter, most just want to be left alone and enough time has passed since Tevinter was driven out of the South that they now have a completely different culture.

And there would only be a lot of untrained mages running around if all the trained mages are in hiding or killed. If they had a base of operations, legitimate facilities, and say a templar squad on the grounds with much more limited power compared to what they have now, those same mages would have a place to train, the mages could be more or less autonomous, and security can still be maintained.

Simple dragon age is dark fantasy world and story are cynical and dark it is no hard deduce that it can end only badly humanity is corrupted and flawed , thedas is miserable place with many grey and black characters and little good characters from more idealistic games so there is no place for being naive.

It would be entirely stupid when mages often turn into abomnation as 2 games proved tot hat point ant they wouldn't turn during war when most of them has no experience ,no support from the World , no money and they are hunted everywhere pretty much that picture shows a beautifully that.

 

[daveliam]

While I think that the templars have a point about the potential dangers of mage possession, I can never support them after seeing, not one but two, Rites of Annulment called to massacre innocent people in the name of "justice" or "religion". I sided with Meredith once just to see what would happen and side with the mages in every single playthrough since. There's no excuse for the organized slaughtering of innocents. The ends don't justify the means.

[TheKomandorShepard]

daveliam wrote...

While I think that the templars have a point about the potential dangers of mage possession, I can never support them after seeing, not one but two, Rites of Annulment called to massacre innocent people in the name of "justice" or "religion". I sided with Meredith once just to see what would happen and side with the mages in every single playthrough since. There's no excuse for the organized slaughtering of innocents. The ends don't justify the means.

Well there is always excuse you might like it or not and giving that 99% of mages were insane blood mages or just abomnations they weren't so innocent.Well templars weren't much better.  

[The Elder King]

KainD wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

I agree with eluvianix. My human characters are generally against slavery and elven segregation.

If elves don't stay segregated they will die out. Everytime they mate with humans, they become less in number, as offsprings are always human.

And we don't see dwarves living in big numbers with humans, why should elves? 

Sorry, I wasn't probably clear. I meant the way Andrastian nations segregate elves in the alienage.

[daveliam]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Well there is always excuse you might like it or not and giving that 99% of mages were insane blood mages or just abomnations they weren't so innocent.Well templars weren't much better.  

Some of the mages were insane blood mages and/or abominations.  Not all of them and I don't think that sacrificing few for the many is a sound choice.  Although I will acknowledge that others feel that way.  There were a bunch of mages holed up with Hawke in the Gallows at the end who weren't blood mages.  Bethany wasn't a blood mage.  I think back to the Rite of Annulment at the Circle Tower.  Wynne, those three mages, and those two children were innocents, but Greagoir would have slaughtered them.  I can't ever support that.

Of course, that being said, not all Templars are bad either.  Cullen made the right move when he defected from Meredith.  That gives me hope that, if he has a position of power in DA: I, he might not stay so close-minded about mages. 

[KainD]

daveliam wrote...
I think back to the Rite of Annulment at the Circle Tower.  

God, how I wish that I could just throw a fireball in Greagoir's face, slaughter all the templars and have Uldred help me battle the blight, after he is done with Irving and Wynne, and the others. Which I am 100% sure he totally would, if reasoned with properly. 

Werewolves, Golems and Abominations. Darkspawn would sh*t themselves.. as would those redcliff guys. xD

Modifié par KainD, 31 décembre 2013 - 09:28 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

daveliam wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Well there is always excuse you might like it or not and giving that 99% of mages were insane blood mages or just abomnations they weren't so innocent.Well templars weren't much better.  

Some of the mages were insane blood mages and/or abominations.  Not all of them and I don't think that sacrificing few for the many is a sound choice.  Although I will acknowledge that others feel that way.  There were a bunch of mages holed up with Hawke in the Gallows at the end who weren't blood mages.  Bethany wasn't a blood mage.  I think back to the Rite of Annulment at the Circle Tower.  Wynne, those three mages, and those two children were innocents, but Greagoir would have slaughtered them.  I can't ever support that.

Of course, that being said, not all Templars are bad either.  Cullen made the right move when he defected from Meredith.  That gives me hope that, if he has a position of power in DA: I, he might not stay so close-minded about mages. 

dude i don't know in what version of da 2 you played as far i renember you could count non-blood mages on fingers when i don't have anything against blood magic but it seems that 99/100 blood mages are insane psychopaths who are drunk with power.I second case sure it is example how necessary evil is only excuse to make things easier but is that rly bad to make things easier no that part of human nature. 

I just love how many make excuse for cullen because he turn on meredith after they slaughtered mages and hawke wanted kick their ass it was like hey
A)lets go rape this person
B)ok
After rape
Policeman) hands on your head
B)oh you criminal sucm you deserve go to prison you monster! I will help you dear policeman this person
is mad!

Most templars are fanatics many have hate issues others are corrupted hell if guys treat weasley as good templar despite guy attack us with his fanaticism  "the order dictates" after we saved his dumb a** and want sell us templar even after pretty much says a lot.

KainD wrote...

daveliam wrote...
I think back to the Rite of Annulment at the Circle Tower.  

God,
how I wish that I could just throw a fireball in Greagoir's face,
slaughter all the templars and have Uldred help me battle the blight,
after he is done with Irving and Wynne, and the others. Which I am 100%
sure he totally would, if reasoned with properly. 

Werewolves, Golems and Abominations. Darkspawn would sh*t themselves.. as would those redcliff guys. xD

Yes why we shouldn't help unstable ax-crazy monster who want destroy everything on his path and summon more crazy monster and want turn us into abomnation i can't see how that would go wrong ignoring that the negotiations would end like trying reason with jason voorhees.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 31 décembre 2013 - 09:41 .

[AresKeith]

KainD wrote...

daveliam wrote...
I think back to the Rite of Annulment at the Circle Tower.  

God, how I wish that I could just throw a fireball in Greagoir's face, slaughter all the templars and have Uldred help me battle the blight, after he is done with Irving and Wynne, and the others. Which I am 100% sure he totally would, if reasoned with properly. 

Werewolves, Golems and Abominations. Darkspawn would sh*t themselves.. as would those redcliff guys. xD

Yea, how dare he do something because the Circle Tower was just about taken over by Blood Mages and demons <_<

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

KainD wrote...

daveliam wrote...
I think back to the Rite of Annulment at the Circle Tower.  

God, how I wish that I could just throw a fireball in Greagoir's face, slaughter all the templars and have Uldred help me battle the blight, after he is done with Irving and Wynne, and the others. Which I am 100% sure he totally would, if reasoned with properly. 

Werewolves, Golems and Abominations. Darkspawn would sh*t themselves.. as would those redcliff guys. xD

A pride demon with a big army of abominations & blood mages would take orders from a mortal?

[daveliam]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

dude i don't know in what version of da 2 you played as far i renember you could count non-blood mages on fingers when i don't have anything against blood magic but it seems that 99/100 blood mages are insane psychopaths who are drunk with power. 

You can't actually think that because there were only a dozen mages milling about in that scene in the game that means that 99% of all mages are blood mages.  Yes, there were A LOT of blood mages in Kirkwall, I get it.  However, those mages were meant to indicate that there were non-blood mages who were rallying behind Hawke. 

They were also mostly identical character models.  Do you think that this means that they were identical octuplets?  Or do you recognize that it's a limitation of the game engine?  It's the same thing with that scene.  They couldn't have put dozens of mages there for obvious reasons.  It's just like in the scene with the Arishok at the end of Act 2.  There were a bunch of duplicate nobles there (all said, only about a dozen).  Do you think that this means that all of the nobles in Kirkwall were killed outside of 6 sets of identical twins?

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
I just love how many make excuse for cullen because he turn on meredith after they slaughtered mages and hawke wanted kick their ass it was like hey
A)lets go rape this person
B)ok
After rape
Policeman) hands on your head
B)oh you criminal sucm you deserve go to prison you monster! I will help you dear policeman this person
is mad!

I wasn't making excuses for Cullen.  He was wrong up to the point where he defected from Meredith.  I'm hoping that this means that his character won't use the absolutist thinking that leads to the slaughtering of innocents in the next story.  If he does, I won't be able to have him as a companion because I won't support those views.  That was my point.

And you scenario happens all the time.  Criminals turn on a former partner and they receive a lighter sentence.  That happens, whether you agree with it or not.

[Red Panda]

*flips a coin*

Heads. Tails. It makes no difference.

It's all a chance, all binary. All yes or no.

This conflict is no different to me.

[Veruin]

Threat300 wrote...

A pride demon with a big army of abominations & blood mages would take orders from a mortal?

It's alright.  Let them live in their PC special snowflake delusion.

[KainD]

Threat300 wrote...

A pride demon with a big army of abominations & blood mages would take orders from a mortal?

I don't need him to take orders, I need his help, which is in his interests as well, darkspawn wouldn't leave him alone.