442 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

daveliam wrote...

Some of the mages were insane blood mages and/or abominations.  Not all of them and I don't think that sacrificing few for the many is a sound choice.  Although I will acknowledge that others feel that way.  There were a bunch of mages holed up with Hawke in the Gallows at the end who weren't blood mages.  Bethany wasn't a blood mage.  I think back to the Rite of Annulment at the Circle Tower.  Wynne, those three mages, and those two children were innocents, but Greagoir would have slaughtered them.  I can't ever support that.

Wether you suport it or not, sometimes such things have to be done.

Sacrificing few for the many is not a choice people usually WANT to make, it's one they HAVE to make. You're not supposed to like it. I don't like it.

Yet, in Gregoirs shoes I'd do the same thing.

[Jaison1986]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

daveliam wrote...

Some of the mages were insane blood mages and/or abominations.  Not all of them and I don't think that sacrificing few for the many is a sound choice.  Although I will acknowledge that others feel that way.  There were a bunch of mages holed up with Hawke in the Gallows at the end who weren't blood mages.  Bethany wasn't a blood mage.  I think back to the Rite of Annulment at the Circle Tower.  Wynne, those three mages, and those two children were innocents, but Greagoir would have slaughtered them.  I can't ever support that.

Wether you suport it or not, sometimes such things have to be done.

Sacrificing few for the many is not a choice people usually WANT to make, it's one they HAVE to make. You're not supposed to like it. I don't like it.

Yet, in Gregoirs shoes I'd do the same thing.

Gregoir and his templars were weak in my opnion, even thought he had dozens of templars at his disposal, he was too afraid to wipe out the abominations himself, and all small 4 man team got the job done for him.

And about your argument, some mage supporters feel the same about sacrificing few for the sake of many, but in their case the ones being sacrificed are the templars, instead of the mages for the greater good.

[PinkysPain]

Gaider said three years ago Tevinter circle membership was mandatory, but now I read that the World of Thedas book says it's not? Could someone who has the World of Thedas book quote me the part about circle membership being voluntary in Tevinter?

I have always assumed that the designers meant for every semi-stable society in the Dragon Age world to have the majority mages living in bondage in some way, whether controlled by templars, each other or by a literal leash.

Modifié par PinkysPain, 01 janvier 2014 - 04:19 .

[PinkysPain]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Sacrificing few for the many is not a choice people usually WANT to make, it's one they HAVE to make. You're not supposed to like it. I don't like it.

In cRPGs I sacrifice the world for principle ... if I want misery I'll read the paper, in cRPGs I play like there is objective morality and a moral universe which in the end rewards good and punishes evil (no matter how the short term results might suggest otherwise, just got to have faith).

Modifié par PinkysPain, 01 janvier 2014 - 04:23 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

World of Thedas does not say that Circle membership isn't mandatory. All it says is that it is viewed differently in Tevinter. Where many of the other countries might see the Circle as some sort of punishment, the Tevinters see it as a great privilege to be a member of the Circle.

[Veruin]

Jaison1986 wrote...


Gregoir and his templars were weak in my opnion, even thought he had dozens of templars at his disposal, he was too afraid to wipe out the abominations himself, and all small 4 man team got the job done for him.

Yes, the NPCs who don't have the gift of being the PC demigod feared and couldn't handle the creatures who lore wise, are supposed to be realy powerful.

[Jaison1986]

Veruin wrote...

Jaison1986 wrote...


Gregoir and his templars were weak in my opnion, even thought he had dozens of templars at his disposal, he was too afraid to wipe out the abominations himself, and all small 4 man team got the job done for him.

Yes, the NPCs who don't have the gift of being the PC demigod feared and couldn't handle the creatures who lore wise, are supposed to be realy powerful.

Indeed! All that fierce and painful combat training they get is just for show. I guess that whole thing about templars training warrior from the best they can find was just an joke in the end.

[Gwydden]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Wether you suport it or not, sometimes such things have to be done.

Sacrificing few for the many is not a choice people usually WANT to make, it's one they HAVE to make. You're not supposed to like it. I don't like it.

Yet, in Gregoirs shoes I'd do the same thing.

Have to? They don't have to do anything. Who determines responsability?

Yes, in Gregoir's place, I'd do the same. But going from that to saying a random dude you don't know HAS to do something just because you said so...

The difference between wanting to and having to is hardly an objective one.

Modifié par Gwydden, 01 janvier 2014 - 04:40 .

[Hellion Rex]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

World of Thedas does not say that Circle membership isn't mandatory. All it says is that it is viewed differently in Tevinter. Where many of the other countries might see the Circle as some sort of punishment, the Tevinters see it as a great privilege to be a member of the Circle.

Indeed. Being a member if the Circle in Tevinter is a completely different animal. 

[daveliam]

Gwydden wrote...

Have to? They don't have to do anything. Who determines responsability?

Yes, in Gregoir's place, I'd do the same. But going from that to saying a random dude you don't know HAS to do something just because you said so...

The difference between wanting to and having to is hardly an objective one.

I think that this is my issue with the argument.  Pepole who side with the templars often (not always) state that it's necessary to exterminate mages.  My argument is that I don't think it is.  I'm always interested in seeking compromise and looking for other solutions.  Because the Rite of Annulment exists, I think it gives the templars an "out" to take an extreme action that, if it didn't exist, they might not pursue.  Necessary is subjective, not absolute.

[Veruin]

Jaison1986 wrote...

Indeed! All that fierce and painful combat training they get is just for show. I guess that whole thing about templars training warrior from the best they can find was just an joke in the end.

"We were prepared for one or two abominations....not the horde that followed." - Gregoir.

[AresKeith]

Jaison1986 wrote...

Veruin wrote...

Jaison1986 wrote...


Gregoir and his templars were weak in my opnion, even thought he had dozens of templars at his disposal, he was too afraid to wipe out the abominations himself, and all small 4 man team got the job done for him.

Yes, the NPCs who don't have the gift of being the PC demigod feared and couldn't handle the creatures who lore wise, are supposed to be realy powerful.

Indeed! All that fierce and painful combat training they get is just for show. I guess that whole thing about templars training warrior from the best they can find was just an joke in the end.

/Facepalm

[KainD]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Oh man... KainD is willing to destroy himself just to make meatsuit for a demon... I thought he was a mage supremacist, but it turns out he is just plain ol' stupid...

Nah, I am just not afraid of change and opportunities. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

KainD wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Oh man... KainD is willing to destroy himself just to make meatsuit for a demon... I thought he was a mage supremacist, but it turns out he is just plain ol' stupid...

Nah, I am just not afraid of change and opportunities. 

There aren't many oppertunities in death..

[KainD]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

There aren't many oppertunities in death..

Depends what kind of death, and who's death. 

[The Elder King]

KainD wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Oh man... KainD is willing to destroy himself just to make meatsuit for a demon... I thought he was a mage supremacist, but it turns out he is just plain ol' stupid...

Nah, I am just not afraid of change and opportunities. 

Considering that a person's identity is generally destroyed when a demon possesses him/her, I don't honestly see much opportunity in demon possession, other than for the demon.

[EmperorSahlertz]

KainD wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

There aren't many oppertunities in death..

Depends what kind of death, and who's death. 

In the matter we were speaking about, it would be your own death.

[KainD]

hhh89 wrote...

Considering that a person's identity is generally destroyed when a demon possesses him/her, I don't honestly see much opportunity in demon possession, other than for the demon.

There are different kinds of possesion. Willing, unwilling and forced. There are different kind of fade creatures that want different things. You can be destroyed by a fade entity, or you can very much be yourself. 

[KainD]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
In the matter we were speaking about, it would be your own death.

I'm interested in partnership, not dominance, one way or another. 

[The Elder King]

So far the only times a mage conserved their identity was with spirits, and only one time it didn't cause trouble for the host, because in the other case the negative emotions of the host corrupted the spirit, and the host without help would've lost control (and in some cases he did). So I really don't see much opportunity most of the times a spirit/demon possess/merge with a mortal.

[KainD]

hhh89 wrote...

So far the only times a mage conserved their identity was with spirits, and only one time it didn't cause trouble for the host, because in the other case the negative emotions of the host corrupted the spirit, and the host without help would've lost control (and in some cases he did). So I really don't see much opportunity most of the times a spirit/demon possess/merge with a mortal.

Because it's never their freaking goal. Everything works when you focus on it. 
Don't go in just thinking about what the demon can do for you, think what you can do for the demon as well, think about what the demon wants, and how you both can benefit from the joining, how you can complete eachother in the fade and  beyond. 
You can pretty much give the demon everything they've ever wanted and more, without them resorting to destroying your identity to get it. You can get so much more from the demon when they are happy. They will never want to let you go, or hurt you in any way. 

[Veruin]

They're getting crazier and crazier.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Veruin wrote...

They're getting crazier and crazier.

I know, right?

[EmperorSahlertz]

KainD wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

So far the only times a mage conserved their identity was with spirits, and only one time it didn't cause trouble for the host, because in the other case the negative emotions of the host corrupted the spirit, and the host without help would've lost control (and in some cases he did). So I really don't see much opportunity most of the times a spirit/demon possess/merge with a mortal.

Because it's never their freaking goal. Everything works when you focus on it. 
Don't go in just thinking about what the demon can do for you, think what you can do for the demon as well, think about what the demon wants, and how you both can benefit from the joining, how you can complete eachother in the fade and  beyond. 
You can pretty much give the demon everything they've ever wanted and more, without them resorting to destroying your identity to get it. You can get so much more from the demon when they are happy. They will never want to let you go, or hurt you in any way. 

And what is to stop the demon from utterly destroying you, once you have been stupid enough to let it inside? Exactly WHAT would motivate a demon to fulfill its end of the bargain, once it had possessed you? Its sense of honour? Yeah... Good luck with that.

[KainD]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
And what is to stop the demon from utterly destroying you, once you have been stupid enough to let it inside? Exactly WHAT would motivate a demon to fulfill its end of the bargain, once it had possessed you? Its sense of honour? Yeah... Good luck with that.

What is stopping you from destroying something you like? There is no bargain, there is just the bond, you just don't get it. You have to have a chaotic evil mindset to understand.