442 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

Rassler wrote...
It seems spirit possession is a much better way to fight templars than blood magic or anything else and with Anders or at least Justice alive I'd say an army of mages possessed by spirits capable of curing tranquility incoming!

Now, that would be great. Creatures that can't help themselves but stricly adhere to their own version of certain ideals and are incapable of pacience or taking a step back to take two steps foward. I mean, just try to have a spirit of Mercy or Compassion trying to decide the course the mages should take along with a spirit of Justice.
The Templars wouldn't even have to do anything; they could just sit back and let the mages destroy themselves.

[Lulupab]

MisterJB wrote...

Meredith and some Templars help fight Orsino if you sided with them.

On a side note I think Bioware did a great job in displaying cause and style of characters.

Anders has an ability named martyr, if you kill him he dies almost instantly and with a smile on his face also he wants to die as people he killed deserve Justice as well. Fitting end.

Meredith probably gets the most horrible death of gaming history. She watches herself turning into stone in full consciousness and agony. As she turns into stone some parts of her body melts into nothingness as she screams horribly to finally become a thing that hardly resembels a human. Fitting end.

[The Hierophant]

eluvianix wrote...

Yeah, I am thinking that the big*** lyrium sword would cut through Orsino like butter.

Not only that since it allows her to leap a dozen meters in the air, is durable enough to fracture stone upon landing from that height, and animate inanimate objects like statues as if she's Ray Harryhausen.

On Topic- as for the op it depends on the character i'm roleplaying. Though if it's possible i'd probably just subjugate them both as a practical pc.

[The Elder King]

Rassler wrote...
It seems spirit possession is a much better way to fight templars than blood magic or anything else and with Anders or at least Justice alive I'd say an army of mages possessed by spirits capable of curing tranquility incoming!

So you mean that you want to merge mages that might have negative emotions with spirits, leading the latter to be corrupted into demons that could force the mages to kill even their own kind, or completely possessing them if the mages don't agree with the extreme measures of the spirit/demon?
Good luck with that.

Modifié par hhh89, 28 décembre 2013 - 08:40 .

[Lulupab]

MisterJB wrote...

Rassler wrote...
It seems spirit possession is a much better way to fight templars than blood magic or anything else and with Anders or at least Justice alive I'd say an army of mages possessed by spirits capable of curing tranquility incoming!

Now, that would be great. Creatures that can't help themselves but stricly adhere to their own version of certain ideals and are incapable of pacience or taking a step back to take two steps foward. I mean, just try to have a spirit of Mercy or Compassion trying to decide the course the mages should take along with a spirit of Justice.
The Templars wouldn't even have to do anything; they could just sit back and let the mages destroy themselves.

You couldn't be more wrong. In case of spirit entering a mortal's body the spirits fully adapts to the hosts ethics. What the host considers injustice, crime, compassion becomes ideals of the spirit as well. Anders showed the world that the "mighty" templars can and should be opposed.

hhh89 wrote...

@Rassler: Anders was an abomination at that
point/merged with Justice at that point. Abominations are lorewise
enourmously powerful, and in Asunder Wynne when 'used' by Faith could
easily defeat a pride demon alone.

If you gonna consider Anders an abomination then consider him a smart one as he was not a mindless creature wanting more power. He was intelligent and fought for a cause that many consider just. I haven't seen any abomination as selfless as Anders. Now imagine an army of Anders wanting the same thing and as strong.

[MisterJB]

I really want one of those swords. Being able to fight like an anime character would be awesome.

[Hellion Rex]

MisterJB wrote...

I really want one of those swords. Being able to fight like an anime character would be awesome.

Including the bat**** craziness that comes with it?

[EmperorSahlertz]

Rassler wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Rassler wrote...
It seems spirit possession is a much better way to fight templars than blood magic or anything else and with Anders or at least Justice alive I'd say an army of mages possessed by spirits capable of curing tranquility incoming!

Now, that would be great. Creatures that can't help themselves but stricly adhere to their own version of certain ideals and are incapable of pacience or taking a step back to take two steps foward. I mean, just try to have a spirit of Mercy or Compassion trying to decide the course the mages should take along with a spirit of Justice.
The Templars wouldn't even have to do anything; they could just sit back and let the mages destroy themselves.

You couldn't be more wrong. In case of spirit entering a mortal's body the spirits fully adapts to the hosts ethics. What the host considers injustice, crime, compassion becomes ideals of the spirit as well. Anders showed the world that the "mighty" templars can and should be opposed.

That is not entirely correct. Both the spirit and the host influence eachother. In the case of Anders for example, Anders was perfectly happy just living the life of an apostate before being possessed by Justice. After becomming possessed, he started to work towards "justice" for all mages, but the anger within Anders warped and perverted Justice into Vengeance. It was no longer justice Anders sought but vengeance.

I don't think what Anders did showed that Templars can be opposed. Anders actions however lead to the Annulment of the Gallows, and if Hawke sides with the amges, then THAT event shows that Templars can be opposed.

Rassler wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

@Rassler: Anders was an abomination at that
point/merged with Justice at that point. Abominations are lorewise
enourmously powerful, and in Asunder Wynne when 'used' by Faith could
easily defeat a pride demon alone.

If you gonna consider Anders an abomination then consider him a smart one as he was not a mindless creature wanting more power. He was intelligent and fought for a cause that many consider just. I haven't seen any abomination as selfless as Anders. Now imagine an army of Anders wanting the same thing and as strong.

I don't think Anders was selfless. Actually he was not selfless at all. His primary motivation was vengeance, which is a very selfish emotion.

[Invisible Man]

I'd say that a mage-templar war would be rather one sided favoring the templars if all things had remained fairly normal; however, at this point things are far from normal. the templars may still have numbers on their side, but if the templars can't remain organized in both force (or unit) cohesion and supplies, the mages would fair far better. as a military force the templars seem to be too fragmented at this point to offer the same show of force one might have come to expect from the order before the current situation. though not having played DA:I this is only theory not even based on soft facts. so take it as you will.

[MisterJB]

Rassler wrote...
You couldn't be more wrong. In case of spirit entering a mortal's body the spirits fully adapts to the hosts ethics. What the host considers injustice, crime, compassion becomes ideals of the spirit as well. Anders showed the world that the "mighty" templars can and should be opposed.

First, that is nonsense. The more Anders is Rivaled, the more he and Vengeance start to differ from each other. There is even a point where Anders will admit he is wrong and try to stop his plans but Vengeance forces him to go with it. Afterwards, Anders can be convinced to Annul the Circle while Vengeance cna do nothing but watch helpless.

Second, even if that was true, it is irrelevant. Different ethics will remain different and spirits are unable to see the world in any way other than black and white which would force these mages possessed by spirits to come into conflict.
For instance, a spirit of Faith might have faith that Templars can be reasoned with while a spirit of Justice would want to kill them all.

I haven't seen any abomination as selfless as Anders.

It was really selfless of him to offer up the entire Kirkwall Circle as unwilling martyrs for his "just cause".

[Hellion Rex]

Rassler wrote...
If you gonna consider Anders an abomination then consider him a smart one as he was not a mindless creature wanting more power. He was intelligent and fought for a cause that many consider just. I haven't seen any abomination as selfless as Anders. Now imagine an army of Anders wanting the same thing and as strong.

Selfless, my ass. I remember watching the cutscene when the battle started in the Gallows. I saw some mages get cut down before they even tried to cast a spell. A bunch of innocents, both mage and nonmage, got caught in the crossfire after Anders acted. They paid the price for his actions. He is the furthest thing from selfless in my mind.

[Invisible Man]

when anders set off that massive mage bomb in the chantry on my first playthrough I said or thought to myself "Anders you stupid bastard! I just united the nobility against the templars. now they'll never back us because of this bulls**t."

Modifié par Invisible Man, 28 décembre 2013 - 09:34 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Rassler wrote...
 I haven't seen any abomination as selfless as Anders.

Wynne was much more selfless than Anders, from refusing to be elevated in rank to volunteering to go to Ostagar to giving her life to save Evangeline's. 

[MisterJB]

YAY! FREEDOM!


THANK YOU, ANDERS! SO SELFLESS OF YOU!


FREEDOM FEELS LIKE DEATH!


OH, I AM SO GLAD ANDERS IS AROUND TO DECIDE WHAT IS BEST FOR US!


I REALIZE NOW HOW THE CIRCLE IS AN INJUSTICE IN MANY PLACES BEYOND KIRKWALL. THANK YOU FOR OPENING MY EYES, ANDERS!
Right before closing them forever, of course.

[Lord Raijin]

MisterJB wrote...

I really want one of those swords. Being able to fight like an anime character would be awesome.

I want a zanpaktou (Bleach).

[Hellion Rex]

MisterJB wrote...


YAY! FREEDOM!


THANK YOU, ANDERS! SO SELFLESS OF YOU!


FREEDOM FEELS LIKE DEATH!


OH, I AM SO GLAD ANDERS IS AROUND TO DECIDE WHAT IS BEST FOR US!


I REALIZE NOW HOW THE CIRCLE IS AN INJUSTICE IN MANY PLACES BEYOND KIRKWALL. THANK YOU FOR OPENING MY EYES, ANDERS!
Right before closing them forever, of course.

I understand the point you are making with the post, and I agree, but was all that really necessary?

[Lord Raijin]

@MisterJB Congratulations! You just showed just how brutal the Templar's are. Look how they're murdering the innocent mages of the Circle. Great job exposing your Templar's true form.

[Hellion Rex]

Lord Raijin wrote...

@MisterJB Congratulations! You just showed just how brutal the Templar's are. Look how they're murdering the innocent mages of the Circle. Great job exposing your Templar's true form.

No, the point of the post was to show that by forcing the Gallows conflict, Anders caused quite a few innocent deaths, both mages and nonmages, caught in the crossfire.

[MisterJB]

Lord Raijin wrote...

@MisterJB Congratulations! You just showed just how brutal the Templar's are. Look how they're murdering the innocent mages of the Circle. Great job exposing your Templar's true form.

Here is the point.


And here is Raijin.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

I've always thought the mages vs. templars thing was pretty uninteresting, honestly.  I had hoped it would remain a side plot, as it was in DA:O.  But if I had to choose, I would liberate the mages.  I'm 100% certain that (unless the writing is just garbage), most of Thedas's nutjobs were in Kirkwall, so normal, smart mages would never consort with demons.

I mean, seriously, in DA 2, mages were like "Oh, snap.  I'm gonna be scolded for not throwing my trash away.  Better cut myself.  Demons RULE!!  Possess me plox!"

[MisterJB]

eluvianix wrote...
I understand the point you are making with the post, and I agree, but was all that really necessary?

My favorite is the third one.
Also, I'm of the opinion that people have become too desensitized to words like "killed" and need to be shown what it really looks like to earn a reaction.

[Lord Raijin]

eluvianix wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

@MisterJB Congratulations! You just showed just how brutal the Templar's are. Look how they're murdering the innocent mages of the Circle. Great job exposing your Templar's true form.

No, the point of the post was to show that by forcing the Gallows conflict, Anders caused quite a few innocent deaths, both mages and nonmages, caught in the crossfire.

Sure Let's blame Anders for everything that happen in Kirkwall. Lets blame Anders for giving Hawke the map to the deep roads where the idol was located at ...which later fall in the hands of a demented Knight-commander.

Anders did not force a conflict in the gallows. Meredith delcared R.o.A (which she was legally bounded) rather than to do the moral thing by arresting and executing Anders for his high crime against the Chantry. The mages from the Circle had NOTHING to do with the bombing of the Chantry. It was Meredith demented mind that wanted to see every mage slaughtered over what 1 mage did.



This is the face of what was truly wrong with Kirkwall.


Mages have every right to fight for unjustice.

Bioware made it nice and clear that the true antagonist was Meredith, not Anders.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

Speaking of blood mages cutting themselves, I'm still trying to process Grace impaling herself and pulling an entire staff through her body.

[Hellion Rex]

MisterJB wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
I understand the point you are making with the post, and I agree, but was all that really necessary?

My favorite is the third one.
Also, I'm of the opinion that people have become too desensitized to words like "killed" and need to be shown what it really looks like to earn a reaction.

Thanks for the lesson, jerk. Your point could have been made without it.

[Hellion Rex]

Lord Raijin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

@MisterJB Congratulations! You just showed just how brutal the Templar's are. Look how they're murdering the innocent mages of the Circle. Great job exposing your Templar's true form.

No, the point of the post was to show that by forcing the Gallows conflict, Anders caused quite a few innocent deaths, both mages and nonmages, caught in the crossfire.

Sure Let's blame Anders for everything that happen in Kirkwall. Lets blame Anders for giving Hawke the map to the deep roads where the idol was located at ...which later fall in the hands of a demented Knight-commander.

Anders did not force a conflict in the gallows. Meredith delcared R.o.A (which she was legally bounded) rather than to do the moral thing by arresting and executing Anders for his high crime against the Chantry. The mages from the Circle had NOTHING to do with the bombing of the Chantry. It was Meredith demented mind that wanted to see every mage slaughtered over what 1 mage did.



This is the face of what was truly wrong with Kirkwall.


Mages have every right to fight for unjustice.

Bioware made it nice and clear that the true antagonist was Meredith, not Anders.

The only reason Meredith called for an Annulment is because Anders blew up a Chantry and killed the Grand Cleric. He forced her hand into calling for the Rite.