442 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

To be honest mages in kirkwall would end dead anyway meredith just was waiting to chop them so Anders just
accelerated things.Pretty in the end she admists that she will carry her work on other circles (chop other mages). 

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 28 décembre 2013 - 10:05 .

[Lord Raijin]

eluvianix wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

@MisterJB Congratulations! You just showed just how brutal the Templar's are. Look how they're murdering the innocent mages of the Circle. Great job exposing your Templar's true form.

No, the point of the post was to show that by forcing the Gallows conflict, Anders caused quite a few innocent deaths, both mages and nonmages, caught in the crossfire.

Sure Let's blame Anders for everything that happen in Kirkwall. Lets blame Anders for giving Hawke the map to the deep roads where the idol was located at ...which later fall in the hands of a demented Knight-commander.

Anders did not force a conflict in the gallows. Meredith delcared R.o.A (which she was legally bounded) rather than to do the moral thing by arresting and executing Anders for his high crime against the Chantry. The mages from the Circle had NOTHING to do with the bombing of the Chantry. It was Meredith demented mind that wanted to see every mage slaughtered over what 1 mage did.



This is the face of what was truly wrong with Kirkwall.


Mages have every right to fight for unjustice.

Bioware made it nice and clear that the true antagonist was Meredith, not Anders.

The only reason Meredith called for an Annulment is because Anders blew up a Chantry and killed the Grand Cleric. He forced her hand into calling for the Rite.

Anders blew up the Chantry for a valid reason. I don't feel that I have to explain what was going on there because you already know. The aggressors were the templars. Even Cassandra, a Seeker, made her final analyzation and said that it was Meredith that provoked the war, not Hawke.

[Veruin]

MisterJB wrote...
*snipped*

I laughed at the third and fifth ones.

[The Elder King]

@Rassler, this isn't about Anders. This is about spirit possession/merging being extremely dangerous and the fact that mortals aren't necessarily able to control themselves. Anders struggled for years to be in control of his body, during which he nearly killed a mage/killed a mage. If he was able to be 'in control' only if he came to agree with justice's extreme methods, otherwise the spirit assumed direct control like Harbinger at his prime.
Anders's negative emotions corrupted Justice. And the majority of mages aren't likely going to have a limited level of negative emotions to let the spirit remaining 'good' and passive. So no, I think that an army of Anders-level of possessed mages would end in a disaster. Anders isn't in the slightest a good example of mage that can merge with a spirit in a good way.

[MisterJB]

eluvianix wrote...
Thanks for the lesson, jerk. Your point could have been made without it.

It wouldn't have come across as strongly.

[dragonflight288]

eluvianix wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

@MisterJB Congratulations! You just showed just how brutal the Templar's are. Look how they're murdering the innocent mages of the Circle. Great job exposing your Templar's true form.

No, the point of the post was to show that by forcing the Gallows conflict, Anders caused quite a few innocent deaths, both mages and nonmages, caught in the crossfire.

Sure Let's blame Anders for everything that happen in Kirkwall. Lets blame Anders for giving Hawke the map to the deep roads where the idol was located at ...which later fall in the hands of a demented Knight-commander.

Anders did not force a conflict in the gallows. Meredith delcared R.o.A (which she was legally bounded) rather than to do the moral thing by arresting and executing Anders for his high crime against the Chantry. The mages from the Circle had NOTHING to do with the bombing of the Chantry. It was Meredith demented mind that wanted to see every mage slaughtered over what 1 mage did.



This is the face of what was truly wrong with Kirkwall.


Mages have every right to fight for unjustice.

Bioware made it nice and clear that the true antagonist was Meredith, not Anders.

The only reason Meredith called for an Annulment is because Anders blew up a Chantry and killed the Grand Cleric. He forced her hand into calling for the Rite.

I sort of disagree with you here, in that Anders didn't force Meredith's hand, as she had every right to lock up the mages and force a search at this point and there would be nothing Orsino could've done about it, since she also had every right to call for the Annulment. The choice was on Meredith's head alone.

But on the other hand, anyone who knew Meredith, her reputation or what her underlings were saying would also know that she wouldn't hesitate to use the Annulment if given the opportunity, especially since she was appealing to the Divine for permission and going behind Elthina's back, so there is no way whatsoever Anders didn't know what the most likely outcome was, the slaughter of all the mages in the Circle.

I split the blame between Meredith and Anders 60-40 percent, 60 going to Meredith and 40 going to Anders, because Meredith ultimately still was the one who gave the order, not Anders.

[Eternal Phoenix]

I'd choose the templars always.

The mages had their chances of freedom in both DA games. Once in the Circle and again in Kirkwall and look at how those places turned out with blood mages and demons roaming free.

The mage supporters are a whiny bunch too...

[Invisible Man]

there is the templar-free circle in the imperium too.

[Dave of Canada]

Invisible Man wrote...

there is the templar-free circle in the imperium too.

Templar exist in the Imperium. It's how they keep weak mages in line and deal with abominations.

Difference is, Tevinter Templar's checks are paid by the magisters rather than the Chantry.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 28 décembre 2013 - 11:23 .

[TK514]

The pro-Mages of the BSN have convinced me that the Chantry and Templar-led Circles are the proper and responsible choice.

[dragonflight288]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Invisible Man wrote...

there is the templar-free circle in the imperium too.

Templar exist in the Imperium. It's how they keep weak mages in line and deal with abominations.

Difference is, Tevinter Templar's checks are paid by the magisters rather than the Chantry.

Also, the templars there don't take lyrium and don't have the capacity to negate spells and drain mana.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Elton John is dead wrote...

The mage supporters are a whiny bunch too...

Yes, mage, elf & quarian supporters are incredibly whiny alot of the time. Frustrating arguing with them since they never accept anything negative their favourite race might have done at all.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Mages, just to ****** off the Mage fans.

In truth, I'd be having a difficult time who to kill - I want them both dead.

[Vandicus]

dragonflight288 wrote...


I split the blame between Meredith and Anders 60-40 percent, 60 going to Meredith and 40 going to Anders, because Meredith ultimately still was the one who gave the order, not Anders.

Ah, but Meredith was crazy pants because of the red lyrium idol by that point. The way I see it, Anders tricked a crazy person(who unfortunately had yet to be relieved of command) into believing that the mages were going to destroy the templars and Kirkwall with it by launching a strike against the Templars' civilian chain of command. With a not-paranoid Knight Commander, it wouldn't have been a problem, but Anders did this precisely because he knew what the results would be. Meredith didn't know what was going on, and probably didn't know this would start the mage-templar war(which Anders did know because he was trying to create it). Essentially she was ignorant of what her actions were going to create by virtue of being crazy and paranoid.

[Treacherous J Slither]

I support the mages. With training they are no longer dangerous and oppressing them cannot be justified.

Who is Wynne a danger to? Bethany? Zarathian? Merrill? Malcolm?

What's the big deal?

Should Professor Xavier of Marvels X-Men be locked up?
Should his enemy Magneto be locked up?

One is praised for his good deeds. The other is hated for his evil deeds. They are judged on their actions. Only ignorant, hateful fools fearful of their power condemn them both.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Uhm... Zathrian created a curse that lasted for a century, which cursed humans to become Werewolves, undoubtably costing the lifes of hundreds.

And that whole Mutant Regristration Act certainly has a lot of parallels to the mage debate in DA- You can certainly argue that meta-humans, mutants and all the other superpowered people should be locked up, or at least be highly regulated.

[Treacherous J Slither]

What Anders did was wrong. No doubt about it. But HE committed that crime. NOT the Circle. HE should be punished for that crime. NOT the Circle.

Unfortunately hateful, ignorant people don't make that dinstinction. They generalise. They prejudge.

An elf mugs and kills someone you care about so you lead an angry mob to the alienage and wipe it out?

Annuling the Circle was an atrocity. As much as Anders blowing up the Chantry.

[Treacherous J Slither]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Uhm... Zathrian created a curse that lasted for a century, which cursed humans to become Werewolves, undoubtably costing the lifes of hundreds.

And that whole Mutant Regristration Act certainly has a lot of parallels to the mage debate in DA- You can certainly argue that meta-humans, mutants and all the other superpowered people should be locked up, or at least be highly regulated.

That wolf curse had unintended consequences and he was wrong for what he did in retaliation. No argument there. I was more aiming for whether or not he was a current threat.
You agree with the Mutant Registration Act? Which side did you pick in the Civil War? Captain America or Iron Man? 

[EmperorSahlertz]

I didn't say I agreed with the Registration act. Just that an arguement can be made for it. Though I am sympathetic to the notion.

And in the Civil War event I gravitated towards Iron Man, but that was mostly because I have always been an Iron Man fan, since I was a wee boy back in the day.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 29 décembre 2013 - 03:48 .

[Lord Raijin]

Elton John is dead wrote...


The mage supporters are a whiny bunch too...

Pro-Templars like you are intolerant to ones freedom and have zero respect or understand it. It scares me that you encourage a police like state, and believe that everyone should be in total control and constantly watched by authority figure.

[Red Panda]

I still think a mandate requiring mages and templars to procreate with each other would go a long way in flipping the gravity of the situation on its head.

[Texhnolyze101]

I'm with the mages 100% now and forever.

[BlueMagitek]

JSlither wrote...

I support the mages. With training they are no longer dangerous and oppressing them cannot be justified.

Who is Wynne a danger to? Bethany? Zarathian? Merrill? Malcolm?

What's the big deal?

Should Professor Xavier of Marvels X-Men be locked up?
Should his enemy Magneto be locked up?

One is praised for his good deeds. The other is hated for his evil deeds. They are judged on their actions. Only ignorant, hateful fools fearful of their power condemn them both.

They still face danger even with training; you see a Senior Enchanter (Uldred) become an abomination, and he seemed to be in Irving's trusted circle.

Also, Xavier should totally be locked up for what he has done.  Have you forgotten Onslaught?

[SgtSteel91]

Holding my opinion until Inquisition comes out and I see where Mages and Templars stand.

[Texhnolyze101]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Invisible Man wrote...

there is the templar-free circle in the imperium too.

Templar exist in the Imperium. It's how they keep weak mages in line and deal with abominations.

Difference is, Tevinter Templar's checks are paid by the magisters rather than the Chantry.

Templars in the imperium don't know how to fight against magic so no they don't keep anyone  in check.