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[Master Warder Z_]

SgtSteel91 wrote...

Magdalena11 wrote...
And, of course the fact that everyone assumes the templars are good and noble and would never stoop to using their position to abuse their charges belies the fact is that they're only human and have been shown to be susceptible to the same human frailties as anyone else.

But mages aren't susceptible those same frailities? If not more so since they can use their superior abilites to rule the population as they see fit?

Like they do in the one place in thedas where slavery is legalized, mages run the state and the religious head also comes from the circle.

 

[dragonflight288]

I have yet to see ANY.

Very well, then. Let me provide a few examples the Warden sees, which are actually kind of funny, but scary in their implications for such a minor character. This scene highlights Morrigan's charm, but it is quite scary what the implications Carroll was expecting are before she terrified him.

Leliana talking to Carroll makes it clear that the templars say things behind Gregoire's back, and the implications cannot be ignored either, despite it being funny in this scene as well.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Master Warder Z wrote...

 As i have said for years.

Lambert had the right of it.

Templars 

Asunder has barely been out for two years, so you only very narrowly get a pass with your use of plural there 

[Master Warder Z_]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

 As i have said for years.

Lambert had the right of it.

Templars 

Asunder has barely been out for two years, so you only very narrowly get a pass with your use of plural there 

I know ^.^

I am clever; And i actually recall the North American Release date considering i had the thing preordered set to be delivered to my door the actual day of release.

[Master Warder Z_]

dragonflight288 wrote...

I have yet to see ANY.

Very well, then. Let me provide a few examples the Warden sees, which are actually kind of funny, but scary in their implications for such a minor character. This scene highlights Morrigan's charm, but it is quite scary what the implications Carroll was expecting are before she terrified him.

Leliana talking to Carroll makes it clear that the templars say things behind Gregoire's back, and the implications cannot be ignored either, despite it being funny in this scene as well.

So a templar acting like a human being with urges...some how what? convicts the entirity of the order of rape or something?

In either of these cases Caroll didn't instigate anything until the PC's companions began engaging in diologue with the express intent to GET across the lake.

So therefore blaming the templar for anything in that situation is just patently ridicious.

[EmperorSahlertz]

dragonflight288 wrote...

I have yet to see ANY.

Very well, then. Let me provide a few examples the Warden sees, which are actually kind of funny, but scary in their implications for such a minor character. This scene highlights Morrigan's charm, but it is quite scary what the implications Carroll was expecting are before she terrified him.

Leliana talking to Carroll makes it clear that the templars say things behind Gregoire's back, and the implications cannot be ignored either, despite it being funny in this scene as well.

NEITHER of those two are examples, or even implications, of widespread Templar raping of mages.... Mages aren't even MENTIONED in any of those cases. So nope... Not seen ANY implication of Templar rape of mages, besides the two certified cases we know of.

[dragonflight288]

Master Warder Z wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

I have yet to see ANY.

Very well, then. Let me provide a few examples the Warden sees, which are actually kind of funny, but scary in their implications for such a minor character. This scene highlights Morrigan's charm, but it is quite scary what the implications Carroll was expecting are before she terrified him.

Leliana talking to Carroll makes it clear that the templars say things behind Gregoire's back, and the implications cannot be ignored either, despite it being funny in this scene as well.

So a templar acting like a human being with urges...some how what? convicts the entirity of the order of rape or something?

In either of these cases Caroll didn't instigate anything until the PC's companions began engaging in diologue with the express intent to GET across the lake.

So therefore blaming the templar for anything in that situation is just patently ridicious.

A templar pretty much asking for a bribe by spending time with beautiful women, and in one case making it clear that they say things behind Gregoire's back since they knew he would disapprove, added into the templar who made a comment in front of Gregoire and is getting sent onto a dead-end job, his secret fantasy is having a family while in a job that keeps him from it, added again onto an apprentice who says the templars watch them bathe, added again to Cullen saying that many templar he knew discusses killing mages with glee, added again to the negative things Alistair says about the templars and the chantry, and you have a lot of little things adding up that makes a near exact replica of the Stanford Prison Experiment conditions.

[Master Warder Z_]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

I have yet to see ANY.

Very well, then. Let me provide a few examples the Warden sees, which are actually kind of funny, but scary in their implications for such a minor character. This scene highlights Morrigan's charm, but it is quite scary what the implications Carroll was expecting are before she terrified him.

Leliana talking to Carroll makes it clear that the templars say things behind Gregoire's back, and the implications cannot be ignored either, despite it being funny in this scene as well.

So a templar acting like a human being with urges...some how what? convicts the entirity of the order of rape or something?

In either of these cases Caroll didn't instigate anything until the PC's companions began engaging in diologue with the express intent to GET across the lake.

So therefore blaming the templar for anything in that situation is just patently ridicious.

A templar pretty much asking for a bribe by spending time with beautiful women, and in one case making it clear that they say things behind Gregoire's back since they knew he would disapprove, added into the templar who made a comment in front of Gregoire and is getting sent onto a dead-end job, his secret fantasy is having a family while in a job that keeps him from it, added again onto an apprentice who says the templars watch them bathe, added again to Cullen saying that many templar he knew discusses killing mages with glee, added again to the negative things Alistair says about the templars and the chantry, and you have a lot of little things adding up that makes a near exact replica of the Stanford Prison Experiment conditions.

Four things to disprove this notion.

1. The Party was attempting to bribe the Templar to get by, He was under orders to not allow any one into the tower and the party needed to get into said tower therefore asking to be a speicial case required them bribing, threatening or otherwise gaining access to said location.

2. No where is stated that the male templars watch the female or male mages bathe, and considering how common female templars are i would be quite surprised if you had female templars watching male mages bathe or vice versa.

3. And there are plenty of mages who describe killing templars with glee, there isn't anything inherently making those rogues the majority of either entity is there?

4. Alistair was a self indulgent narrasist when it came to the Chantry and Templars, He viewed the entire thing as a punishment to begin with for being a bastard, if you had some one who had come to the order by choice in Adolesence like Kerran stating such things it would have actually carried weight.

To me this doesn't ring true of any "result" gathered during SPE.

[dragonflight288]

Before I get into the list, I get the impression that you guys have some preconceived notion that since I'm arguing in favor of mages I must think all templars, or the vast majority of them are the problem, are perverts, and are abusing their power. I do not have that opinion, I have never expressed that opinion, and I actually think most templars may be like Kerren in DA2, simply trying to do their job and support their families, but the system as it stands is so open to abuse with so little oversight that it allows bad eggs in the templars to horrifically abuse the mages without fear of consequences, and I'm not arguing against templars as a majority but against the system itself, and how flawed it is as it stands and is need of reformation.

I am taking into account all the small details mentioned in the games and books, adding them up, and looking at the extremes that are very visible and apparent, and I have logically drawn the conclusion that many templars (not all, not most, but many) are like Kerras, Alrik, Rylock and so on, even if we don't outright see them.

Now I'll move onto the list.

1. The party had seals that proved they were what they claimed to be, and he was being obstinate.

2. The complete lack of privacy in the apprentice and full-fledge mage dorms allow almost anyone to look in, not just certain genders, so it's possible that it's female templars watching female mages, but there are next to no walls to inhibit the view of male templars watching female mages, so privacy is a very large issue here.

3. Taking into account that this is Ferelden, so it's not as extreme as Kirkwall, and that Carroll made it clear to Leliana that they say things behind Gregoire's back, it doesn't prove or disprove how many, their views and so on, but there are templars who are acting in ways that templars shouldn't. I don't think Gregoire would approve of the happy time Carroll was thinking of when he wanted to spend time with Morrigan and Leliana.

4. Alistair hated that he had no choices in the matter, but that doesn't mean he's wrong.

It doesn't have to ring true to you or Emperor in the end though, as it's just a game. I saw all the small things and drew my own conclusion, and you disagree with it, and since it's just a fictional world, in the end it's all right, as no one is really affected beyond the people we annoy here on the forums. lol.

[Magdalena11]

Master Warder Z wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

I have yet to see ANY.

Very well, then. Let me provide a few examples the Warden sees, which are actually kind of funny, but scary in their implications for such a minor character. This scene highlights Morrigan's charm, but it is quite scary what the implications Carroll was expecting are before she terrified him.

Leliana talking to Carroll makes it clear that the templars say things behind Gregoire's back, and the implications cannot be ignored either, despite it being funny in this scene as well.

So a templar acting like a human being with urges...some how what? convicts the entirity of the order of rape or something?

In either of these cases Caroll didn't instigate anything until the PC's companions began engaging in diologue with the express intent to GET across the lake.

So therefore blaming the templar for anything in that situation is just patently ridicious.

A templar pretty much asking for a bribe by spending time with beautiful women, and in one case making it clear that they say things behind Gregoire's back since they knew he would disapprove, added into the templar who made a comment in front of Gregoire and is getting sent onto a dead-end job, his secret fantasy is having a family while in a job that keeps him from it, added again onto an apprentice who says the templars watch them bathe, added again to Cullen saying that many templar he knew discusses killing mages with glee, added again to the negative things Alistair says about the templars and the chantry, and you have a lot of little things adding up that makes a near exact replica of the Stanford Prison Experiment conditions.

Four things to disprove this notion.

1. The Party was attempting to bribe the Templar to get by, He was under orders to not allow any one into the tower and the party needed to get into said tower therefore asking to be a speicial case required them bribing, threatening or otherwise gaining access to said location.

2. No where is stated that the male templars watch the female or male mages bathe, and considering how common female templars are i would be quite surprised if you had female templars watching male mages bathe or vice versa.

3. And there are plenty of mages who describe killing templars with glee, there isn't anything inherently making those rogues the majority of either entity is there?

4. Alistair was a self indulgent narrasist when it came to the Chantry and Templars, He viewed the entire thing as a punishment to begin with for being a bastard, if you had some one who had come to the order by choice in Adolesence like Kerran stating such things it would have actually carried weight.

To me this doesn't ring true of any "result" gathered during SPE.

1.  Grey Warden documents.

2.  Does it really matter which gender templar is watching mages bathe?  If that's what they're doing they're abusing their position.  Period.

3.  Which plenty of mages describe killing templars with glee or any other emotion?  I kinda think all the mages want is to be left alone.

4.  Leaving the question of Alistair's involuntary entry into the chantry and the narcicsm you seem to think he has aside, Kerran didn't like the way mages were treated by the chantry either.  That was why he got involved in Thrask's plan to begin with.

[EmperorSahlertz]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Before I get into the list, I get the impression that you guys have some preconceived notion that since I'm arguing in favor of mages I must think all templars, or the vast majority of them are the problem, are perverts, and are abusing their power. I do not have that opinion, I have never expressed that opinion, and I actually think most templars may be like Kerren in DA2, simply trying to do their job and support their families, but the system as it stands is so open to abuse with so little oversight that it allows bad eggs in the templars to horrifically abuse the mages without fear of consequences, and I'm not arguing against templars as a majority but against the system itself, and how flawed it is as it stands and is need of reformation.

I am taking into account all the small details mentioned in the games and books, adding them up, and looking at the extremes that are very visible and apparent, and I have logically drawn the conclusion that many templars (not all, not most, but many) are like Kerras, Alrik, Rylock and so on, even if we don't outright see them.

Yet somehow you jump to broad conclusions based on no evidence. You have yet to provide a SINGLE shred of evidence that Templars raping mages is a common occurence.

dragonflight288 wrote...
1. The party had seals that proved they were what they claimed to be, and he was being obstinate.

Hmm interesting. So if Carrol had actually had those documents he was talking about, it would have been PROOF that he was the Queen of Antiva? That is certainly an interesting viewpoint. Nevertheless his orders were to let NONE across, so even if he had accepted that they were Grey Wardens, he still wouldn't let anyone across, without some convincing going on.

dragonflight288 wrote...
2. The complete lack of privacy in the apprentice and full-fledge mage dorms allow almost anyone to look in, not just certain genders, so it's possible that it's female templars watching female mages, but there are next to no walls to inhibit the view of male templars watching female mages, so privacy is a very large issue here.

We see four floors of a tower several hundred feet high, and you make broad claims as to the privacy of all mages in the Circle. Sure, privacy could see some improvement, but considering that most peasant **** where they eat, I think the mages should be grateful that they even have access to bathing facilities.
And mages are in need of constant surveilance, ESPECIALLY the apprentices who have not yet proven themselves. And since we have no source on the matter from a Harrowed mage, your claims are again unsupported.

dragonflight288 wrote...
3. Taking into account that this is Ferelden, so it's not as extreme as Kirkwall, and that Carroll made it clear to Leliana that they say things behind Gregoire's back, it doesn't prove or disprove how many, their views and so on, but there are templars who are acting in ways that templars shouldn't. I don't think Gregoire would approve of the happy time Carroll was thinking of when he wanted to spend time with Morrigan and Leliana. 

They told STORIES about sultry poetesses behind Greagoirs back. How in the name of **** is that proof of Templars raping mages? What the hell kind of leap of logic does it require to reach such a conclusion?

dragonflight288 wrote...
4. Alistair hated that he had no choices in the matter, but that doesn't mean he's wrong.

I don't recall Alistair ever mentioning ANYTHING about Templars raping mages without repercussions. As a matter of fact, he says he enjoyed the strict discipline, which would PROBABLY mean that if Templars are so disciplined that they DON'T break their own rules very often. Another point AGAINST your claims.

dragonflight288 wrote...
It doesn't have to ring true to you or Emperor in the end though, as it's just a game. I saw all the small things and drew my own conclusion, and you disagree with it, and since it's just a fictional world, in the end it's all right, as no one is really affected beyond the people we annoy here on the forums. lol.

Of course, but when you accuse the Templar Order of widespread raping amges, then you are by association accusing Templar supproters of supporting rapists. People take offense to that. Especially when the claims are not supported by anyhting in the lore other than some very questionable and/or circumstancial proof, and only TWO certified cases of actual rape.
If you jsut took issue with the fact that oversight of Templars seems to have declined in recent years, allowing for cases such as Alrik and Kerras, that would be fine. But you claim that rape is a common occurence, even though there is no proof to back up that claim.

[dragonflight288]

Of course, but when you accuse the Templar Order of widespread raping amges, then you are by association accusing Templar supproters of supporting rapists. People take offense to that. Especially when the claims are not supported by anyhting in the lore other than some very questionable and/or circumstancial proof, and only TWO certified cases of actual rape.

If that's the impression you got from me, then I must apologize since I know you and many other templar supporters don't support rape or rapists.

I question and criticize the system and how open it is to abuse, and I refuse to overlook the small details. I don't need to be told straight out or see it happen on screen to know it's happening. I know that if I was a Seeker and I saw and heard what my Warden did in the Circle's, I would want to investigate the templars to see if any were abusing their powers or not. If nothing came of it, then I'd leave the matter be and get on with my life. But there potential for abuse and all the small details added together is enough cause for concern that I wouldn't rest easy just writing it off and not even bother looking into the matter.

Like I've said many times, one of the biggest problems with the system is that most templars aren't held accountable for their actions, and don't live in fear of receiving any reprisals. We don't even know how thoroughly questioned they are when they kill apprentices, or think they kill them in the case of Anerein in order to determine that death is the appropriate response compared to simply bringing them back.

[EmperorSahlertz]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Of course, but when you accuse the Templar Order of widespread raping amges, then you are by association accusing Templar supproters of supporting rapists. People take offense to that. Especially when the claims are not supported by anyhting in the lore other than some very questionable and/or circumstancial proof, and only TWO certified cases of actual rape.

If that's the impression you got from me, then I must apologize since I know you and many other templar supporters don't support rape or rapists.

I question and criticize the system and how open it is to abuse, and I refuse to overlook the small details. I don't need to be told straight out or see it happen on screen to know it's happening. I know that if I was a Seeker and I saw and heard what my Warden did in the Circle's, I would want to investigate the templars to see if any were abusing their powers or not. If nothing came of it, then I'd leave the matter be and get on with my life. But there potential for abuse and all the small details added together is enough cause for concern that I wouldn't rest easy just writing it off and not even bother looking into the matter.

Like I've said many times, one of the biggest problems with the system is that most templars aren't held accountable for their actions, and don't live in fear of receiving any reprisals. We don't even know how thoroughly questioned they are when they kill apprentices, or think they kill them in the case of Anerein in order to determine that death is the appropriate response compared to simply bringing them back.

I'd be inclined to agree with you that Templars lack accountability, but this appears to be a recent development. After all the Templars used to be terrified by the mere mention of a Seeker arriving. So obviously oversight was something that was done effectively in previous years. However recently, as the Templars have grown in power, the accountability of the Templars has begun to errode away. But it still seems that the Templars need to hide their criminal activity, based on the fact that both Kerras and Alrik went to great length to keep knowledge of their deeds away from their superiors.

[dragonflight288]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Of course, but when you accuse the Templar Order of widespread raping amges, then you are by association accusing Templar supproters of supporting rapists. People take offense to that. Especially when the claims are not supported by anyhting in the lore other than some very questionable and/or circumstancial proof, and only TWO certified cases of actual rape.

If that's the impression you got from me, then I must apologize since I know you and many other templar supporters don't support rape or rapists.

I question and criticize the system and how open it is to abuse, and I refuse to overlook the small details. I don't need to be told straight out or see it happen on screen to know it's happening. I know that if I was a Seeker and I saw and heard what my Warden did in the Circle's, I would want to investigate the templars to see if any were abusing their powers or not. If nothing came of it, then I'd leave the matter be and get on with my life. But there potential for abuse and all the small details added together is enough cause for concern that I wouldn't rest easy just writing it off and not even bother looking into the matter.

Like I've said many times, one of the biggest problems with the system is that most templars aren't held accountable for their actions, and don't live in fear of receiving any reprisals. We don't even know how thoroughly questioned they are when they kill apprentices, or think they kill them in the case of Anerein in order to determine that death is the appropriate response compared to simply bringing them back.

I'd be inclined to agree with you that Templars lack accountability, but this appears to be a recent development. After all the Templars used to be terrified by the mere mention of a Seeker arriving. So obviously oversight was something that was done effectively in previous years.

True. The Seekers of Truth Codex makes this quite clear.

However recently, as the Templars have grown in power, the accountability of the Templars has begun to errode away. But it still seems that the Templars need to hide their criminal activity, based on the fact that both Kerras and Alrik went to great length to keep knowledge of their deeds away from their superiors.

I don't think Alrik went to that great of length. True, Alrik really got onto his inferior for questioning his orders and pretty much kept him from going to Meredith, and Kerras warned Alain not to tell anyone about him going into his room at night, but a simple walk around the Gallows courtyard is enough to gather all necessary evidence against them. For Alrik, just count how many new tranquil there are, what they're saying and how they even say they belong to Alrik now.

Kerras is a harder nut to crack in that Thrask says that Meredith considers much of what he does as justified as far back as Act 1, so you'd need a Seeker of Truth for him.

But that brings me to the next thing you brought up. When did the templars stop fearing when the Seeker's showed up? When did they stop caring about being investigated? It's not really clear in the time-line so I won't speculate on that, but I think we can agree that as of the events of Asunder, or more accurately before the novel began but after Kirkwall, that the system wasn't working like it was originally designed in the Nevarran Accord where mages were allowed a certain level of autonomy whereas templars merely watched and advised (Gregoire, as well as World of Thedas on the Nevarran Accord.)

I don't know when things started going downhill, but the system as of the Dragon Age doesn't work and needs reformation.

[SgtSteel91]

Maybe the Seekers and Chantry just got lazy about checking the Templars? Maybe they just didn't care what was happening in the Circle as long as there wasn't any magic related problems.

Modifié par SgtSteel91, 30 décembre 2013 - 01:10 .

[The Baconer]

Depends on my Inquisitor at the time, and what our perogative and goals are.

If we're supposed to be just restoring the "general order" of things, then on my first playthrough I will probably be downsizing both factions significantly if they resist.

[EmperorSahlertz]

dragonflight288 wrote...

I don't think Alrik went to that great of length. True, Alrik really got onto his inferior for questioning his orders and pretty much kept him from going to Meredith, and Kerras warned Alain not to tell anyone about him going into his room at night, but a simple walk around the Gallows courtyard is enough to gather all necessary evidence against them. For Alrik, just count how many new tranquil there are, what they're saying and how they even say they belong to Alrik now. 

I don't think you should take the ambient dialogue (or monologue technically) too seriously. It is there to set the atmosphere but that is about it. And the Gallows is a Circle with historically high numbers of failed Harrowings and Blood Mages. I don't think anyone can keep full track of every single Tranquil there. The Circle must house several hundreds of amges, remembering everyone of them by name and face, will be nigh on impossible for the higer ranked Templars, who probably don't have daily interactions with the lower ranked mages. And the lower ranked Templars are being coerced by Alrik to not bring the issue to Meredith.
Basically it is a case of the higher ups not knowing anything is amiss (and having no reasonable way of finding out on their own), and the lower ranks being incapable of bringing the issue up.

dragonflight288 wrote...
But that brings me to the next thing you brought up. When did the templars stop fearing when the Seeker's showed up? When did they stop caring about being investigated? It's not really clear in the time-line so I won't speculate on that, but I think we can agree that as of the events of Asunder, or more accurately before the novel began but after Kirkwall, that the system wasn't working like it was originally designed in the Nevarran Accord where mages were allowed a certain level of autonomy whereas templars merely watched and advised (Gregoire, as well as World of Thedas on the Nevarran Accord.)

I don't know when things started going downhill, but the system as of the Dragon Age doesn't work and needs reformation.

I would guess that it really started deteriorating the moment Lambert was named High Lord Seeker. He was clearly better suited in the role as a Templar, but the Divine in her eternal wisdom made him Lord Seeker. Which brings me to my other point, the Templars had a high influence over the previous Divine (whose name I cannot remember), so it stands to reason that they would influence her to install a Lord Seeker who would be more sympathetic to the Templars than doing his actual job.
Now don't get me wrong, I think what most of Lambert does in Asunder is fully justified, and even the correct course of action, but... His fervor does get the better of him, and as I said he would have been a far better Knight-Commander (or even Knight-Divine which supposedly is the highest ranking Templar) than Lord Seeker.

[dragonflight288]

He would probably be a better Knight-Vigilant or Knight Divine than Lord High Seeker.

Yes, he had every reason to suspect Rhys of killing Pharamond thanks to Adrian, and I think he had every right to arrest Rhys at that moment pending investigation...I don't think he had the right to break up the whole conclave and announce that the Divine's authority no longer mattered.

EDIT: yeah, that does sound like a good place where things started changing.

Modifié par dragonflight288, 30 décembre 2013 - 01:39 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

dragonflight288 wrote...

He would probably be a better Knight-Vigilant or Knight Divine than Lord High Seeker.

Yes, he had every reason to suspect Rhys of killing Pharamond thanks to Adrian, and I think he had every right to arrest Rhys at that moment pending investigation...I don't think he had the right to break up the whole conclave and announce that the Divine's authority no longer mattered.

Well, I did say most.. Though I think the second the mages started talking about rebellion then he had every right to break up the meeting. But that is a hair-splitter really, and at the end of the day, we do not have sufficient data on the authority and duties of the Lord Seeker in general to reach any sort of objective conclusion.

[eye basher]

The thing is that most mages have never been in a fight before much less a war most spend their lives stuck inside a library reading books and you want you send them against a bunch of bloodthirsty religious fanatics hellbent on the believe killing mages is going to make the world alright again that doesn't sound like a god idea to me.

[DarthSideus2]

I pretty much always play as a mage in games that allow me to choose so......right or wrong, I'm siding with the Mages.

[PinkysPain]

Starsyn wrote...

From what I've read, that's one of the goals of the main character in Inquisition.   I think the players will have a hand in ending the war.

As I see it there are two ways to truly end the conflict :

- strengthen the veil such that mages can no longer be posessed ... will be seen as a cop out by the pro-templar players (screw them though, this is the right way to go).

- remove magic from the world entirely ... would make the Dragon Age universe kinda boring.

Without fundamentally changing the way magic works the best we can expect is a return to the status quo, which is inherently unstable and will just lead to war all over again.

Modifié par PinkysPain, 30 décembre 2013 - 02:35 .

[dragonflight288]

PinkysPain wrote...

Starsyn wrote...

From what I've read, that's one of the goals of the main character in Inquisition.   I think the players will have a hand in ending the war.

As I see it there are two ways to truly end the conflict :

- strengthen the veil such that mages can no longer be posessed ... will be seen as a cop out by the pro-templar players (screw them though, this is the right way to go).

- remove magic from the world entirely ... would make the Dragon Age universe kinda boring.

Without fundamentally changing the way magic works the best we can expect is a return to the status quo, which is inherently unstable and will just lead to war all over again.

Or have a Qunari invasion and pretty much force both sides to stop fighting simply to maintain their ways of life without being killed, their tongues cut out and their mouths sewn shut, or forcibly converted.

[Treacherous J Slither]

BlueMagitek wrote...

JSlither wrote...

Uldred was a dummy that fooled around with a demon stronger than him. There will always be some dummy to do something dumb. That's where the magic police come in. Mages and mundanes trained to handle stuff like that. But that kind of thing is rare. Your average mage will never encounter an abomination much less your average thedosian. Demonic possession is a fringe threat. Proper knowledge and training makes it even less of a threat.
Appaerently I have forgotten Onslaught. Still, he's judged on his actions and not his potential. Same should be for the mages.

But that goes against your initial argument, that training gets rid of the general dangers of magic; when it is possible for a senior enchanter to be susceptible to such a thing, that argument falls flat. 
The average mundane never encounters that, because most mages are in the Circle.  Have you forgotten Redcliffe?

You asked if both Xavier and Magneto should be locked up; I would actually advocate that, on the basis of their potentials, Xavier be watched more than Magneto, as Xavier is capable of completely rewriting a person's memory and more.
You're right. Uldred got possessed so training and knowledge doesn't completely negate the threat. Fortunately this is where the magic police come in.
Redcliffe happened because that boy was improperly trained IMO and Isolde couldn't bring herself to kill him. No one seemed to want to kill him actually. Now if my ideas were implemented in this scenario the I believe the chances of him being possessed would lower significantly and if it didn't the damage to the town wouldn't have been as extensive. Or maybe it would have if the magic police didn't arrive in time to prevent it.
Still, demonic possession is rare. In the Circle or out. The Warden and Hawke see and do many things that the average thedosian will only dream of. If possession was common then Tevinter must have a real good handle on it and if they have such a handle on it then is it truly so dangerous?
Watching Xavier is pointless. He's one of the most powerful telepaths in the world. He could sabotage their entire operation and they wouldn't even know it unless he wanted them to. The way I see it is as long as he seems to be a good guy he should be left alone. It should be this way for all mutants. Mages too.

Whoops..my reply is in the quote somehow. I'm typing off my PS3...

Modifié par JSlither, 30 décembre 2013 - 03:58 .

[SgtSteel91]

eye basher wrote...

The thing is that most mages have never been in a fight before much less a war most spend their lives stuck inside a library reading books and you want you send them against a bunch of bloodthirsty religious fanatics hellbent on the believe killing mages is going to make the world alright again that doesn't sound like a god idea to me.

But that's speculation on how the War is going to be fought until Inquisition comes out. Maybe the Mages will be losing since they are less trained waging war than the Templars. Maybe Bioware will write that the Mages found another way to fight on even ground with the Templars or both sides are in a stalemate for one reason or another. We just don't know yet.

Modifié par SgtSteel91, 30 décembre 2013 - 03:46 .