442 réponses à ce sujet

[afgrdnq1]

I'll try to be neutral. But if it comes down to it I'll pick mages.

[TheKomandorShepard]

hhh89 wrote...

Pardon us, Thekomandorshepard, if we don't believe that the right solution is to kill 99% of the mages.

In what way right solution morally i never claimed that ,in terms of safety this solution is king and best solution (well only effective solution) and that is fact. 

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 30 décembre 2013 - 02:28 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

rasloveszev wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

@MisterJB Congratulations! You just showed just how brutal the Templar's are. Look how they're murdering the innocent mages of the Circle. Great job exposing your Templar's true form.

No, the point of the post was to show that by forcing the Gallows conflict, Anders caused quite a few innocent deaths, both mages and nonmages, caught in the crossfire.

Revolutions RARELY end peacefully. When war happens PEOPLE DIE, ESPECIALLY INNOCENT PEOPLE! Hell, even Anders said "Better to have a quick death than a slow one." 

"Fun" fact: in wartime the safest place you can be is in the army.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 30 décembre 2013 - 02:28 .

[Fast Jimmy]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Pardon us, Thekomandorshepard, if we don't believe that the right solution is to kill 99% of the mages.

In what way right solution morally i never claimed that ,in terms of safety this solution is king and best solution (well only effective solution) and that is fact. 

Not really. Killing every Mage in the Circle wouldn't stop new ones from being born. And woudl only increase the number of hedge Mages in hiding, such that you'd eventually have a Mage rebellion army on your hands, which would win, take over the world and we're right back to the Tevinter Imperium.

We need a more permanent solution to the problem. The Circle served as that for over a millenia. It could use some improvements, but it has worked remarkably well up until the present.

[The Elder King]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Pardon us, Thekomandorshepard, if we don't believe that the right solution is to kill 99% of the mages.

In what way right solution morally i never claimed that ,in terms of safety this solution is king and best solution and that is fact. 

I wasn't necessarily talking about morality. And it's not a fact, it's an opinion. Unless for you 'safety' means just protection to magical threats (which would unlikely end anyway). and you don't consider the consequences of southern Thedas having few mages.
Plus, what Fast Jimmy said.

Modifié par hhh89, 30 décembre 2013 - 02:33 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Pardon us, Thekomandorshepard, if we don't believe that the right solution is to kill 99% of the mages.

In what way right solution morally i never claimed that ,in terms of safety this solution is king and best solution (well only effective solution) and that is fact. 

Not really. Killing every Mage in the Circle wouldn't stop new ones from being born. And woudl only increase the number of hedge Mages in hiding, such that you'd eventually have a Mage rebellion army on your hands, which would win, take over the world and we're right back to the Tevinter Imperium.

We need a more permanent solution to the problem. The Circle served as that for over a millenia. It could use some improvements, but it has worked remarkably well up until the present.

And who said that i won't kill new born mages well templars already bring mages to circles they can on the spot kill mage.Now without wasting time new anti-magical faction would focus entirely on hunting mages and killing them instead most forces watching them and wasting time. Dead people can't be rebel.It served very bad as it seems not only is open for abuses but also don't protect world from mages and allow them escape and rampage that what we saw to this moment proves it circles are just bad mages can't be controled.   

hhh89 wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Pardon us, Thekomandorshepard, if we don't believe that the right solution is to kill 99% of the mages.

In
what way right solution morally i never claimed that ,in terms of
safety this solution is king and best solution and that is fact. 
[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

I
wasn't necessarily talking about morality. And it's not a fact, it's an
opinion. Unless for you 'safety' means just protection to magical
threats (which would unlikely end anyway). and you don't consider the
consequences of southern Thedas having few mages.
Plus, what Fast Jimmy said.

This is not opinion that if you destroy/kill danger it stops being danger(how mage can be dangerous if he/she is dead...).They don't do much anyway for time to time they take part in battle (few mages) and get crushed very quickly.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 30 décembre 2013 - 02:39 .

[IllusiveManJr]

I guess mages.

[Lotion Soronarr]

KainD wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Then I guess you're agaisnt quaranteens and locking people into mental wards?

I am. If you can't live with them, just kill them. wtf? 
You put rabid dogs to sleep, not orginize a special preserve for them. 

I'm not understanding your position.

Are you saiyng we should never use quarantene/Circles?
Or that we should kill all potential infected/mages?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Magdalena11 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Then I guess you're agaisnt quaranteens and locking people into mental wards?

Yes, I am and by the way, nice analogies.  Universal precautions and specific barrier-based precautions have replaced quarantine for all but a very minute number of specific, already diagnosed, active conditions.  People who have a disease in its dormant state or who are not actually spreading body fluids are not restricted.  People are only committed to a locked unit against their will if they have proven that they are a danger to themselves and others by their actions and speech.  They are no longer locked away just because they have received a diagnosis of mental illness.  Only a very small number of beds in mental facilities are on locked wards. 

You don't quarantene sick poeple if there is a cure.
But what if there isn't?
The Black plauge ring a bell?

You don't think, if a new and dangerous desease appeared, and there is no cure, that quanteene wouldn't be enforced? You saw the hysteria over the "bird flu"... what do you think would happen if a more dangerous and more virulent virus appeared?

In both cases, the number of people affected by these restrictions to their liberty is tiny compared to the number of people who were locked away 100 years ago and in both cases it is because their active symptoms prohibit any other action.

And the number of mages is tiny compared to hte number of others.

Most mass murderers are male.  Would you lock away all males because one of them might lose it and go postal?

No, that is just stupid - and completely ineffective to boot.

[The Elder King]

@Thekomandor: again, the magical/demonic threats would unlikely end with your plan. Expecially becuase you can't find all mages. There are a lot of mages that hide already for the Chantry, and I doubt you'd be able to kill the magisters and the sareebas. Your plan is almost impossible to realize, unless you have some kind of supernatural weapon.
And again, the hyphotethical elimination of the vast majority of mages have other negative consequences. For example, southern Thedas would likely not be able to defend from a qunari invasion. Or if they can, it'd be at the cost of much more lives.

[Fast Jimmy]

And who said that i won't kill new born mages well templars already bring mages to circles they can on the spot kill mage.Now without wasting time new anti-magical faction would focus entirely on hunting mages and killing them instead most forces watching them and wasting time. Dead people can't be rebel.It served very bad as it seems not only is open for abuses but also don't protect world from mages and allow them escape and rampage that what we saw to this moment proves it circles are just bad mages can't be controled.    

The Templars are terrible at finding Mages. There is no "spidey sense" they have that would let them identify a Mage (resisting posting the Cullen "Mages aren't people like the rest of us" line said to a Hawke Mage in DA2 screenshot), they rely primarily on others reporting Mage activity to them.

How many people would report their family, friends or children as being a Mage if they knew it meant certain death for them? People in Thedas believe that Mages are better off in the Circle. Of you suddenly are sending them not a lockdown version of Hogwarts, but instead a firing squad, you will have many people be less compliant.

Templars aren't Mage bloodhounds. A solution that consists of finding everyone with magic and killing them would be very ineffective and require more resources than even the Chantry could dedicate in the long term.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 30 décembre 2013 - 02:51 .

[Magdalena11]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

You raise a good point (but I think a family would call for the templars before killing their child). The circle does protect those who can't protect themselves. If the chantry hadn't indoctrinated the public to be afraid it wouldn't be like that but that boat's already sailed. Having said this, a mage who has completed training and proven him- or herself to be both capable of adequate defense and self-restraint no longer needs these protections.

Okay, so a couple things...

The Chantry didn't indoctrinate people to be afraid of Mages... the Mages did that. The original history of the Inquisition was that it was created to protect the general populace from maleficar, blood mages and the demons/abominations they either intentionally or inadvertently released. There was no Templars to call, no protection to be had.

This was true hundreds of years ago.  Before the mess in Kirkwall, mages were permitted to travel and had some privacy and while things weren't right they weren't what they became later.  What I'm saying it is the chantry who has kept the hate and fear alive.

Fast Jimmy wrote...

When people say "abolish the Circle" but then suggest that people should just call on the Templars if anything goes wrong, that's insanely naive. There are only Templars numbering in the dozens assigned to a Circle... there isn't NEARLY enough to have a force sizeable enough to take down one abomination, let along a group of Blood Mages if it came to that, in every town, village and hamlet. People would be defenseless if things went awry and they didn't happen to live in a major area with some form of protection.

I disagree that the dozens of templars assigned to a circle can't take down an abomination.  Why else are they present at harrowings?

Fast Jimmy wrote...

And who would be giving these tests, by the way? Other Mages? Where would this be done, if not in a Circle setting? Would it be the same test? Many Mages would rather be made into mindless slaves than take the Harrowing - would that still be the case, even though many feel it is inhumane? If someone were to fail the test and become an abomination, who would put that Mage down? As we can see from DA:O, one Abominated Mage can take down and infect an entire Circle's worth of Mages.

Yes, mages could still do harrowings and evaluate the promotion of mages within its ranks.  I'm not calling for the abolition of the circle.  I'm saying it should be controlled by its own.  The rite of tranquility, while repulsive, is a valid procedure for those who desire it or who are deemed by the senior enchanters to be too vulnerable to risk temptation.  Uldred wasn't just an abomination.  He was possessed by an intelligent, powerful desire demon.  If the warden and co. could wipe him out Irving and the other captive mages could have if Niall had reached them with the litany.  Perhaps if the slap in the face by the chantry mother hadn't been so hard and the restrictions against mages so harsh Uldred wouldn't have lost it and looked to a pride demon for help.

Fast Jimmy wrote...
Is the Circle system perfect? No. It is not.

Does it provide tons of safeguards and structure to keep the world at large safe? Yes. Absolutely.

Agreed.  I just think that those structures and safeguards could be provided by the mages themselves.  If their continued liberty were at stake they would have great motivation to keep their number on the straight and narrow.

Fast Jimmy wrote...
People who feel the Circle needs to be destroyed are basically saying "the lives of innocents don't matter to me - I'd rather see people (mundane and Mages both) die and suffer just so I can say Mages are free.

That may or may not be true.  What this person who thinks that the circle needs to be in control of the mages says is that because the lives of innocents matters to me and I don't want to see people die and suffer in the mage/templar conflict I would like to see that mages have adequate freedom.

Fast Jimmy wrote...
Changing the Circle to allow for more freedom as well as having some better form of checks and balances to prevent Templar abuse is a valid request. Tearing down the whole system and violently growing mages and the rest of the world back together is not.

I would consider allowing mages more freedoms, including the right to marry and raise families, personal privacy in their own quarters and exist without fear of persecution outside the circle confines in regulated conditions minimum requirements.  Better checks and balances are a good step.  First among these is that first enchanters should not be appointed by them.  Any rights given to mages could be taken away in a week if the templars appointed a puppet.

I'm not suggesting randomly throwing mages into the population.  What I am suggesting is that the circle needs a drastic overhaul.

[TheKomandorShepard]

hhh89 wrote...

@Thekomandor: again, the magical/demonic threats would unlikely end with your plan. Expecially becuase you can't find all mages. There are a lot of mages that hide already for the Chantry, and I doubt you'd be able to kill the magisters and the sareebas. Your plan is almost impossible to realize, unless you have some kind of supernatural weapon.
And again, the hyphotethical elimination of the vast majority of mages have other negative consequences. For example, southern Thedas would likely not be able to defend from a qunari invasion. Or if they can, it'd be at the cost of much more lives.

Of course it will at least in region that was implemented for tevinter and qunari and i am not responsible they can damage themselves but every manifestation and protecting them will be heavily punished and peoples who help capture mage will be rewarded.So any mage will get on my teritory will be screwd because peoples will quickly sell them for reward and most will do it even without encourage.So as i said instead watching mages every force of new anti-magical faction will be hunt them down peoples will fear helping them and will want money so it will be very effective.So only way to mage could survive wilderness and even there templars hunt mages and now will be in full effectiveness. 
Qunari can be defeated without mages thedas need end with superstitions of chantry and push advancement so they can obtain better technology so well technology is better than mages and can be controled.And even without they can win.In long term it cost less lives than mages will kill skipping that mages who will turn into abomnations in battlefield.

Fast Jimmy wrote...

And who said that i won't kill
new born mages well templars already bring mages to circles they can on
the spot kill mage.Now without wasting time new anti-magical faction
would focus entirely on hunting mages and killing them instead most
forces watching them and wasting time. Dead people can't be rebel.It
served very bad as it seems not only is open for abuses but also don't
protect world from mages and allow them escape and rampage that what we
saw to this moment proves it circles are just bad mages can't be
controled.    

The Templars are terrible at finding
Mages. There is no "spidey sense" they have that would let them identify
a Mage (resisting posting the Cullen "Mages aren't people like the rest
of us" line said to a Hawke Mage in DA2 screenshot), they rely
primarily on others reporting Mage activity to them.

How many
people would report their family, friends or children as being a Mage if
they knew it meant certain death for them? People in Thedas believe
that Mages are better off in the Circle. Of you suddenly are sending
them not a lockdown version of Hogwarts, but instead a firing squad, you
will have many people be less compliant.

Templars aren't Mage
bloodhounds. A solution that consists of finding everyone with magic and
killing them would be very ineffective and require more resources than
even the Chantry could dedicate in the long term.

Because templars are incompetent and waste most resources to watch mages instead hunting them make new anti-magical faction more ruthless , trained and independent of chantry nonsense add to that system of rewards and punishments that i mentioned above a little indoctrination teaching that mages are evil and here we go much more efficient than before.

Ps you are overestimating humankind many don't even need excuse to kick out their childrens other will sell friends for survival or money here we go peoples will do that what is convenient for them that is human nature.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 30 décembre 2013 - 03:02 .

[Fast Jimmy]

I disagree that the dozens of templars assigned to a circle can't take down an abomination.  Why else are they present at harrowings?

I'm saying the dozen Templars at a Circle can take down an Abomination. But having a dozen Templars (and all the lyrium that would involve) would be impossible. Templars are highly trained special forces that require years of training to be effective. To station enough to take out an abomination in every settlement would be an effort in the complete undoable.

Agreed. I just think that those structures and safeguards could be provided by the mages themselves. If their continued liberty were at stake they would have great motivation to keep their number on the straight and narrow.

Again - Uldred is proof this is entirely a false premise. A single abomination led to nearly every other Mage in the entire Circle being killed or possessed. A Mage is no match for an abomination. Only Templars have the skill set, abilities and magical resistance to go toe-to-toe with a Mage-gone-bad. Having Mages police Mages is like trying to put out a fire with paper... it won't put out the fire and it is only more likely to spread the flames.

I would consider allowing mages more freedoms, including the right to marry and raise families, personal privacy in their own quarters and exist without fear of persecution outside the circle confines in regulated conditions minimum requirements. Better checks and balances are a good step. First among these is that first enchanters should not be appointed by them. Any rights given to mages could be taken away in a week if the templars appointed a puppet.

I'm not suggesting randomly throwing mages into the population. What I am suggesting is that the circle needs a drastic overhaul.

I'm sorry... then you support the Templars, not the Mages.

The Mages made their decision, they cast their lot - they voted and said "no more Circle." They are not going back and are willing to kill to keep it that way.

If you support a form of the Circle, even one with more rights and freedoms, then you support the Templars. The Mages are going to war to say they won't go back.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 30 décembre 2013 - 03:20 .

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

afgrdnq1 wrote...

I'll try to be neutral. But if it comes down to it I'll pick mages.

[Magdalena11]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Magdalena11 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Then I guess you're agaisnt quaranteens and locking people into mental wards?

Yes, I am and by the way, nice analogies.  Universal precautions and specific barrier-based precautions have replaced quarantine for all but a very minute number of specific, already diagnosed, active conditions.  People who have a disease in its dormant state or who are not actually spreading body fluids are not restricted.  People are only committed to a locked unit against their will if they have proven that they are a danger to themselves and others by their actions and speech.  They are no longer locked away just because they have received a diagnosis of mental illness.  Only a very small number of beds in mental facilities are on locked wards. 

You don't quarantene sick poeple if there is a cure.
But what if there isn't?
The Black plauge ring a bell?

You don't think, if a new and dangerous desease appeared, and there is no cure, that quanteene wouldn't be enforced? You saw the hysteria over the "bird flu"... what do you think would happen if a more dangerous and more virulent virus appeared?

Allow me to clarify.  By quarantine I mean the antiquated practice of isolation wards and marks on the door.  The modern equivalent is confining a person to his house because he can't leave it without infecting people no matter what barrier precautions he takes.  As far as I know, the only condition to which this still applies is tuberculosis that is resistant to all antibiotics.  Even though there are many diseases for which there is no cure with more every year we are able to prevent the spread of disease through barriers like gloves and masks.  Why do you think people out in the street are wearing masks where bird flu is endemic (present in low but constant numbers)?  The Black Death, a.k.a. bubonic plague is present in the prairy dog and ground squirrel population out West.  There are cases every year.  It is cured easily with antibiotics and well-known to local docs.  Back to what to do if there's no cure - back to blocking the means of transmission not the sick person.  

In both cases, the number of people affected by these restrictions to their liberty is tiny compared to the number of people who were locked away 100 years ago and in both cases it is because their active symptoms prohibit any other action.

And the number of mages is tiny compared to hte number of others.

Only people who are actively showing symptoms that put the population at risk are confined.  If someone is diagnosed with bipolar disorder because he was aprehended standing in the street axe in hand saying the voices are telling him to kill people he is confined in a mental health facility until his symptoms are brought under control.  If he commits a crime under such circumstances law enforcement may take over and confine him some more for what he's done.  He's actually done something, though.  If he'd freaked out when he started hearing voices and looked for help on his own like most people do he'd be treated with medication and no one would ever know his diagnosis.

Most mass murderers are male.  Would you lock away all males because one of them might lose it and go postal?

No, that is just stupid - and completely ineffective to boot.

Give the poster a cigar!  I knew you'd get it.

[vaire]

Most definitely Mages, naturally instituting a form of compulsory school system that would not include the separation from family and preventive incarceration. Those two things are what makes the Circle a de facto punishment and when you punish people based on what they could do (not what they did) you are actually encouraging them to commit a crime since the contingency of punishment disappears.
Moreover I would also try to avoid separating them totally from society since such a thing is bound to make Mages unable to learn how to interact with others and so much more likely to fall into a demon's grasp when faced with non-mages. Every time a part of the population has been completely separated from the other history has taken a dark turn.
Yes, a method of control would be needed but I think a mixed "police force" of Mages and not-Chantry-controlled Templars would be the best solution.
About Uldred: he was not alone at all, he had several blood mages backing him up (you can even talk to one) and there are mages resisting him without tuning into abomination into the tower and in the very room he is in thus I would not say Mages are no match against an abomination, more vulnerable yes, but definitely able to resist if you consider Uldred is possessed by a Pride demon.

[KainD]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
I'm not understanding your position.

Are you saiyng we should never use quarantene/Circles?
Or that we should kill all potential infected/mages?

Both. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

KainD wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
I'm not understanding your position.

Are you saiyng we should never use quarantene/Circles?
Or that we should kill all potential infected/mages?

Both. 

Seems kinda harsh dunnit?

[Invisible Man]

is it just me or are people willingly misreading or misunderstanding each other simply to make what the other is saying seem foolish? or is it just the language barrier? I've seen this on both sides of the issue.

Modifié par Invisible Man, 30 décembre 2013 - 04:42 .

[WardenWade]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I disagree that the dozens of templars assigned to a circle can't take down an abomination.  Why else are they present at harrowings?

I'm saying the dozen Templars at a Circle can take down an Abomination. But having a dozen Templars (and all the lyrium that would involve) would be impossible. Templars are highly trained special forces that require years of training to be effective. To station enough to take out an abomination in every settlement would be an effort in the complete undoable.

Agreed. I just think that those structures and safeguards could be provided by the mages themselves. If their continued liberty were at stake they would have great motivation to keep their number on the straight and narrow.

Again - Uldred is proof this is entirely a false premise. A single abomination led to nearly every other Mage in the entire Circle being killed or possessed. A Mage is no match for an abomination. Only Templars have the skill set, abilities and magical resistance to go toe-to-toe with a Mage-gone-bad. Having Mages police Mages is like trying to put out a fire with paper... it won't put out the fire and it is only more likely to spread the flames.

I would consider allowing mages more freedoms, including the right to marry and raise families, personal privacy in their own quarters and exist without fear of persecution outside the circle confines in regulated conditions minimum requirements. Better checks and balances are a good step. First among these is that first enchanters should not be appointed by them. Any rights given to mages could be taken away in a week if the templars appointed a puppet.

I'm not suggesting randomly throwing mages into the population. What I am suggesting is that the circle needs a drastic overhaul.

I'm sorry... then you support the Templars, not the Mages.

The Mages made their decision, they cast their lot - they voted and said "no more Circle." They are not going back and are willing to kill to keep it that way.

If you support a form of the Circle, even one with more rights and freedoms, then you support the Templars. The Mages are going to war to say they won't go back.

Just to interject briefly, regarding the bolded it is an interesting point and I'm very curious about how it will play out in Inquisition   Some mages, such as Vivienne, appear to be very pro-Circle and may not have supported rebellion (IIRC the vote to fight seemed a close thing). 

During the PAX Prime demo footage I believe Cassandra mentions more or less that "the Inquisitor has taken us far from the Circle..."  It made me think that perhaps not all the Circles have fallen or rebelled, or that they will do so, and that there may be Circles we will visit that are still operational (such as Vivienne's Circle or perhaps Kinloch Hold) and with mages and templars still working together as much as circumstances allow.

Do you believe that might be possible?

Modifié par WardenWade, 30 décembre 2013 - 05:42 .

[Magdalena11]

Invisible Man wrote...

is it just me or are people willingly misreading or misunderstanding each other simply to make what the other is saying seem foolish? or is it just the language barrier? I've seen this on both sides of the issue.

It's really easy to misinterpret something you think goes against your beliefs.  I am a native speaker of American English and frequently express myself in an unclear manner.  In answer you your question - deliberate? probably not.  Language barrier?  Yes.  We should have all been born mind-readers.

I think this is an issue many people feel passionately about.  A lot of the people (including myself) really are expressing the point of view that they feel does the greatest good.  Some feel that personal liberty is worth a slight degree of risk to overall welfare.  Others feel that denying freedom to a small group of innocents is an acceptable sacrifice to protect the world at large.  Both groups are driven mostly by good intention even though they differ on how these intentions should be implemented.

I'm actally getting pretty tired of the argument in general and as Fast Jimmy pointed out, the world state for the Inquisition is set already.  War has been declared.  Each player will be playing a solo game and no one is going to tell him or her what to think.  Maker, Mythal and Ancestors help us if they do bring out multiplayer.  

The mage/templar issue is only one of many that DAI will have to deal with.  Darkspawn, Demons and Politics, Oh my!

[Beerfish]

Kill all mages, thus there is no reason to have templars thus we get rid of both problems. You can thank me later for solving all the problems of thedas.

[Vandicus]

Templars. Not only would there be far less total casualties in the case of their victory, they will be necessary to fight off the Tevinter Imperium, who I have no doubt will seize this opportunity to try to invade the rest of Thedas while recruiting mages from the ranks of the rebellion. Templars are not a risk-factor when warring with Tevinter, while mages don't have a clear power structure, a strong support base, rapport with the rulers of the realms, and are also vulnerable to forced possessions or being persuaded to join Tevinter through normal means.

Mages winning means they either found a 3rd Tevinter Imperium or get taken over by the 2nd Tevinter Imperium.

Templars winning means a chance at fighting back the 2nd Tevinter Imperium, and probably a return to a system similar to what they had in place within a couple generations.

[Invisible Man]

Magdalena11 wrote...

Invisible Man wrote...

is it just me or are people willingly misreading or misunderstanding each other simply to make what the other is saying seem foolish? or is it just the language barrier? I've seen this on both sides of the issue.

It's really easy to misinterpret something you think goes against your beliefs.  I am a native speaker of American English and frequently express myself in an unclear manner.  In answer you your question - deliberate? probably not.  Language barrier?  Yes.  We should have all been born mind-readers.

I think this is an issue many people feel passionately about.  A lot of the people (including myself) really are expressing the point of view that they feel does the greatest good.  Some feel that personal liberty is worth a slight degree of risk to overall welfare.  Others feel that denying freedom to a small group of innocents is an acceptable sacrifice to protect the world at large.  Both groups are driven mostly by good intention even though they differ on how these intentions should be implemented.

I'm actally getting pretty tired of the argument in general and as Fast Jimmy pointed out, the world state for the Inquisition is set already.  War has been declared.  Each player will be playing a solo game and no one is going to tell him or her what to think.  Maker, Mythal and Ancestors help us if they do bring out multiplayer.  

The mage/templar issue is only one of many that DAI will have to deal with.  Darkspawn, Demons and Politics, Oh my!

native english speaker over here as well. most seem to think i'm british & not american, most of the time i don't know whether I should feel flattered or insulted by it. I've had very little, if any trouble understanding what's been said & even implied in this thread. maybe because I take the time to read & understand what the poster is stating, and if they actually might have another meaning I'm not Immediately seeing, all before I come to a judgment on it. though most do seem to be straight forward with their posts. personally, I'm just tired in general, not of this discussion in particular. been feeling the weather for the last few weeks, seems to have shut me down like someone hit my power button.