956 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellion Rex]

Rassler wrote...
Didn't the writers confirm a mage has to "want" to become an abomination? Its doesn't matter by force or their own will they have to allow it to happen. you must force them to allow it by torture or something.

No, because that's contradicted by mages we see who simply wanted to escape the Gallows during the Last Straw. I'm damned sure Connor didn't want to become an abomination either.

[Willowhugger]

Outside the Fade, demons can forcibly possess someone in a moment of weakness by overwhelming them. I think that's what happened to Uldred. I'm 75% sure that's what happened to Sophia Dryden, as the demon had enough access to enough of her mind to gather information from it, and I haven't seen any examples of demons doing this when they possess corpses.

I dunno, we never talk to any of the corpse abominations other than her. She could be a pretty typical example.

[Veruin]

dragonflight288 wrote...
I'm 75% sure that's what happened to Sophia Dryden, as the demon had enough access to enough of her mind to gather information from it, and I haven't seen any examples of demons doing this when they possess corpses. 

Have we even met any other possessed corpses that weren't *Rawr I'm evul, grr*?

[Willowhugger]

No, because that's contradicted by mages we see who simply wanted to escape the Gallows during the Last Straw. I'm damned sure Connor didn't want to become an abomination either.

He did, however, make a pact with a demon to stop Jowan.

The Desire Demon stopped Jowan, too!

She just exacted a pretty hefty toll.

The little girl with the cat also made an agreement with the demon before you met it, hence why it could possess her.

Modifié par Willowhugger, 23 janvier 2014 - 07:18 .

[dragonflight288]

Veruin wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...
I'm 75% sure that's what happened to Sophia Dryden, as the demon had enough access to enough of her mind to gather information from it, and I haven't seen any examples of demons doing this when they possess corpses. 

Have we even met any other possessed corpses that weren't *Rawr I'm evul, grr*?

Not that I'm aware of. She was obvioulsy dead as it had been centuries since she was possessed, but I'm reasonably sure she was alive at the time she was possessed. There is room for doubt though, but I'm still reasonably positive.

[AresKeith]

Veruin wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...
I'm 75% sure that's what happened to Sophia Dryden, as the demon had enough access to enough of her mind to gather information from it, and I haven't seen any examples of demons doing this when they possess corpses. 

Have we even met any other possessed corpses that weren't *Rawr I'm evul, grr*?

That would be one retarded demon

[Lulupab]

eluvianix wrote...

Rassler wrote...
Didn't the writers confirm a mage has to "want" to become an abomination? Its doesn't matter by force or their own will they have to allow it to happen. you must force them to allow it by torture or something.

No, because that's contradicted by mages we see who simply wanted to escape the Gallows during the Last Straw. I'm damned sure Connor didn't want to become an abomination either.

I put want in quotation for a reason. Connor was like heal my father and I'll do anything. Anything also involves being possessed.

[Willowhugger]

Not that I'm aware of. She was obvioulsy dead as it had been centuries since she was possessed, but I'm reasonably sure she was alive at the time she was possessed. There is room for doubt though, but I'm still reasonably positive.

On my end, I think its better storytelling if you have to agree to be possessed.

I also think that's what canon says.

Agreement, however, can be done under coercion or misinformation or lies.

I admit, however, I could be wrong.

[Hellion Rex]

Willowhugger wrote...

No, because that's contradicted by mages we see who simply wanted to escape the Gallows during the Last Straw. I'm damned sure Connor didn't want to become an abomination either.

He did, however, make a pact with a demon to stop Jowan.

The Desire Demon stopped Jowan, too!

She just exacted a pretty hefty toll.

The little girl with the cat also made an agreement with the demon before you met it, hence why it could possess her.

What deal did Kitty make with Amalia, pray tell?
As for Connor, he tried to make a deal to heal his father, which backfired.

[Willowhugger]

What deal did Kitty make with Amalia, pray tell?
As for Connor, he tried to make a deal to heal his father, which backfired.

It was probably something like, "Do you want me to be with you forever and ever?"

As for Connor, yeah, that's right.

[dragonflight288]

And Connor didn't even know he was dealing with a demon in the first place. He didn't know enough about the Fade to know he visits it each night when he dreams.

[thetinyevil]

eluvianix wrote...

Willowhugger wrote...

Yeah, considering nobody knew about that, and Alrik forbade anyone from bothering either Meredith or Cullen about it, I don't hold Meredith or Cullen responsible on that.

Alrik represents the worst of the system.

Evangeline represents the best.

But even the best system prevents mages from raising their own children.

Templars may not hate Mages but their love is pretty damn awful.

The Templars aren't required to love mages in the least. And a Circle is hardly the best place to raise a child. Pray tell what do you think would happen if an Annulment was proclaimed on a Circle that had CHILDREN in there?

There ARE children in the circle. They are, and I use this word very losely, raised in the circle and if an ROA is called for they are slaughter as mercilessly as the rest. Thought they are probably the easiest for the templars they are the least able to fight back and if one of these children actaually hides good enough not to get stabbed in the gut and left to bleed out then they get the brand.

[Veruin]

Willowhugger wrote...
It was probably something like, "Do you want me to be with you forever and ever?"

As for Connor, yeah, that's right.

Yea, I don't buy the idea that if you don't agree with a demon on anything, you're immune to possession.  I just don't believe that.


Ah, our residential brat has returned.  I wonder what idiocy  and blatant bias she will enlighten us to.

thetinyevil wrote...

There ARE children in the circle. They are, and I use this word very losely, raised in the circle and if an ROA is called for they are slaughter as mercilessly as the rest. Thought they are probably the easiest for the templars they are the least able to fight back and if one of these children actaually hides good enough not to get stabbed in the gut and left to bleed out then they get the brand.

If magic manifests around puberty, how are there children in the circle?

Modifié par Veruin, 23 janvier 2014 - 07:27 .

[dragonflight288]

Veruin wrote...

Willowhugger wrote...
It was probably something like, "Do you want me to be with you forever and ever?"

As for Connor, yeah, that's right.

Yea, I don't buy the idea that if you don't agree with a demon on anything, you're immune to possession.  I just don't believe that.

All you have to do is go into the Fade, get ino a fight and lose it, and BAM, you're possessed. No deal needed. 

Or run into a demon who is already sundered from the Fade, get into a fight and lose, BAM, you're possessed. 

[Willowhugger]

Yea, I don't buy the idea that if you don't agree with a demon on anything, you're immune to possession.  I just don't believe that.

To each their own, I think it makes things more difficult for demons but given most demons can torture you into compliance or settle for inhabiting your corpse--well, really, there's not much holding them back.

I also don't buy the "lose a fight in the Fade" thing since Mages visit the Fade every night.

Modifié par Willowhugger, 23 janvier 2014 - 07:25 .

[Lulupab]

We are lacking evidence mostly but we haven't seen any real forceful possession. Like a mage out of the blue becoming an abomination. They were either very desperate, forced by others or fooled/charmed by a demons which made them want to be abomination, either directly or indirectly. All cases leads to the mage allowing it to happen under various circumstances. None of them are forceful. A demon has not simply penetrated its way through a mage, not util now anyway.

[AresKeith]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Veruin wrote...

Willowhugger wrote...
It was probably something like, "Do you want me to be with you forever and ever?"

As for Connor, yeah, that's right.

Yea, I don't buy the idea that if you don't agree with a demon on anything, you're immune to possession.  I just don't believe that.

All you have to do is go into the Fade, get ino a fight and lose it, and BAM, you're possessed. No deal needed. 

Or run into a demon who is already sundered from the Fade, get into a fight and lose, BAM, you're possessed. 

Or forced possession as shown in DAO and I think DA2

[dragonflight288]

Willowhugger wrote...

Yea, I don't buy the idea that if you don't agree with a demon on anything, you're immune to possession.  I just don't believe that.

To each their own, I think it makes things more difficult for demons but given most demons can torture you into compliance or settle for inhabiting your corpse--well, really, there's not much holding them back.

I also don't buy the "lose a fight in the Fade" thing since Mages visit the Fade every night.

Mages aren't the only ones who go into the Fade each night. Every one who isn't a dwarf does.

But let me clarify. Go into the Fade while conscious, lose a fight, get possessed. Better?  

[Lulupab]

Veruin wrote...

If magic manifests around puberty, how are there children in the circle?

It usually manifests around puberty. Emile de launcet showed signs of magic on 6.

[Hellion Rex]

AresKeith wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Veruin wrote...

Willowhugger wrote...
It was probably something like, "Do you want me to be with you forever and ever?"

As for Connor, yeah, that's right.

Yea, I don't buy the idea that if you don't agree with a demon on anything, you're immune to possession.  I just don't believe that.

All you have to do is go into the Fade, get ino a fight and lose it, and BAM, you're possessed. No deal needed. 

Or run into a demon who is already sundered from the Fade, get into a fight and lose, BAM, you're possessed. 

Or forced possession as shown in DAO and I think DA2

Yes! Good point. The Templars in DA2 having demons forced inside by Tarohne.

[Hellion Rex]

thetinyevil wrote...

There ARE children in the circle. They are, and I use this word very losely, raised in the circle and if an ROA is called for they are slaughter as mercilessly as the rest. Thought they are probably the easiest for the templars they are the least able to fight back and if one of these children actaually hides good enough not to get stabbed in the gut and left to bleed out then they get the brand.

I was talking about newborn babies, fresh from the womb, that have not shown a single sign of magical talent. If you had bothered to look at my post a few spots later, I had clarified what I was talking about.

Modifié par eluvianix, 23 janvier 2014 - 07:29 .

[Veruin]

Rassler wrote...

Veruin wrote...

If magic manifests around puberty, how are there children in the circle?

It usually manifests around puberty. Emile de launcet showed signs of magic on 6.

Perhaps, but it's worth mentioning that those "children" we see in Origins could be young teens.  There was some teen who used a childs model in Athenril's quest.

[Willowhugger]

Yes! Good point. The Templars in DA2 having demons forced inside by Tarohne.

He looked like he was being tortured, probably until he accepted a demon like what was happening to the Senior Enchanters.

[thetinyevil]

eluvianix wrote...

ianvillan wrote...

Willowhugger wrote...

The Templars aren't required to love mages in the least. And a Circle is hardly the best place to raise a child. Pray tell what do you think would happen if an Annulment was proclaimed on a Circle that had CHILDREN in there?

See Origins, it DOES have children there.

Children the Templars let fight abominations while they hid a few rooms away, Children who were helping to keep the abominations contained while the Templars hid. Children they had sentenced to death for no fault of their own and who's only crime was escaping from abominations.

Templars who were trying to prevent a full blown, pride demon led demonic takeover from spilling out of the Circle.

Keep telling yourself that maybe you will actually believe. Yes the big strong templars where trying to stop the circle from being taken by demons over by hiding from...I mean watching the door. Yes that what they were doing they were watching the door they weren't in no way hiding like scared litle rabbits. They were big strong knights who did there job and protected the...you know I can't finish that sentence. 

[Veruin]

Willowhugger wrote...
He looked like he was being tortured, probably until he accepted a demon like what was happening to the Senior Enchanters.

Floating in a state of cryostatis doesn't really scream pain staking torture to me.  It looked more like a ritual.