956 réponses à ce sujet

[Veruin]

eluvianix wrote...

Bear in mind that there is an obvious language barrier at work here.

Bear in mind, he doesn't seem to have even attempted to reduce that barrier.  

[TheKomandorShepard]

The Baconer wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
yep they were and both sides ended with many losses

The battle you are referring to took place at Marnas Pell, which is a Tevinter city. Before the Chantry responded with exalted marches and the circle of magi, the Qunari had advanced as far south as the Free Marches.

Now, I realize that being wrong is your natural condition, but you could at least try reading the available literature instead of citing your own personal fanfiction.

I wasn't talking about battle only about war and thedas...
when qunari started this they were wining to point...
Is there even a book about qunari wars as far i renember we have only codex unless there is something about that in stolen throne or calling because i didn't read books about that...

[The Elder King]

Without considering the PC's achievements (otherwise we can say that 90% of abominations aren't dangerous at all, in the games the mages lost most of the time against templars, who not only can prevent mages from casting their spell, but (considering what Gaider wrote in Asunder) can protect themselves from magic a lot better than common non-mages (they can erect auras/barriers that limits the effect of magics). I don't see how templars being able to defeat mages (which is what they Excel at), should be considered as evidence that mages aren't powerful.
I'm not saying that they're demigods. I'm saying that they're a powerful, and can turn the tide against certain threats, which isn't stated only in the codex (and not only in the qunari war. They were of great help during the second Blight too, since Drakon recruited a lot of them in his ranks, and they prove to be useful), but they experienced characters in the game too.

[dragonflight288]

 I noticed this has gone into Qunari territory and mages value. So I figure I'll share what I know.

I noticced someone made reference to a codex that talks about mages being Andrastian nations 'ace-in-the-whole' against the Qunari, and that's the Codex Entry "Par Vollen: The Occupied North.

Par Vollen: The Occupied North

In the 30th year of the Steel Age, the first Qunari ships were sighted off the coast of Par Vollen in the far north, marking the beginning of a new age of warfare.History calls this the First Qunari War, but it was mostly a one-sided bloodbath, with the Qunari advancing far into the mainland. Qunari warriors in glittering steel armor carved through armies with ease. Their cannons, the likes of which our ancestors had never seen, reduced city walls to rubble in a matter of seconds.Stories of Qunari occupation vary greatly. It is said they dismantled families and sent captives to "learning camps" for indoctrination into their religion. Those who refused to cooperate disappeared to mines or construction camps.For every tale of suffering, however, there is another of enlightenment deriving from something called the "Qun." This is either a philosophical code or a written text that governs all aspects of Qunari life, perhaps both. One converted Seheran reported pity for those who refused to embrace the Qun, as if the conquerors had led him to a sort of self-discovery. "For all my life, I followed the Maker wherever his path led me," he wrote, "but in the Qun I have found the means to travel my own path."It has been said that the most complete way to wipe out a people is not with blades but with books. Thankfully, a world that had repelled four Blights would not easily bow to a foreign aggressor. And so the Exalted Marchesbegan.The greatest advantage of the Chantry-led forces was the Circle of Magi. For all their technology, the Qunari appeared to harbor great hatred for magic. Faced with cannons, the Chantry responded with lightning and balls of fire.The Qunari armies lacked the sheer numbers of humanity. So many were slain at Marnas Pell, on both sides, that the Veil is said to be permanently sundered, the ruins still plagued by restless corpses. But each year, the Chantry pushed further and further into the Qunari lines, although local converts to the Qun proved difficult to return to Andraste's teachings.By the end of the Storm Age, the Qunari were truly pushed back. Rivain was the only human land that retained the Qunari religion after being freed, and its rulers attempted to barter a peace. Most human lands signed the Llomerryn Accord, excepting the Tevinter Imperium. It is a shaky peace that has lasted to this day.--From [/i]The Exalted Marches: An Examination of Chantry Warfare, by Sister Petrine, Chantry scholar[/i]

Here's an account of the Qunari Wars.

Source: http://dragonage.wik...iki/Qunari_Wars

The First Qunari War data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3D

In 6:30 Steel[1] a race of humanoids previously unknown toThedosians – called Qunari – lands in Par Vollen, which belonged to the Tevinter Imperium at the time. They conquered it quickly.Word of Qunari invasion didn't reach the rest of Thedas until 6:32 Steel when the Qunari invasion began as their ships berth in great numbers at the coasts of Seheron and northern Rivain. The conflict became known as the First Qunari War,[1] one of many Qunari Wars to follow.Conquest of the north data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3DEditWithin two years the invaders spread to Antiva, and captured Treviso in 6:34 Steel as the Qunari's initial advances were great. After they had conquered much of the Tevinter Imperium, Rivain, and Antiva and they began to assault the Free Marches far to the south of the Imperium, only ten years into invasion. Only Minrathousitself remained besieged but unconquered in the north.The invading Qunari did not kill their prisoners, but instead converted the defeated to their rigoristic Qun. All the successful converts became Qunari.Liberation of the north. 

data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3DBy 6:85 Steel, 55 years after the Qunari had been first seen in Thedas, the humans had organized themselves and pushed back. Humans rebelled from Qunari captivity all over Tevinter Imperium, and Qunari's hold began to loosen.The war continued for the rest of the century, and into next one. After nearly quarter of a century, in 7:23 Storm, the Qunari were pushed back to Seheron and Rivain, but still held on to those regions tightly.The Battle of the Nocen Sea was the largest naval engagement in history and resulted in a stalemate and the destruction of many of the ships on both sides. With both sides exhausted, an impasse began.Andrastian and Imperial Chantry data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3D

Next year the Andrastian Chantry and Imperial Chantrywere desperate enough to work together for the first time since the schism to take down the threat to both organizations. They declared the New Exalted Marchesagainst the Qunari – to retake Rivain, and Seheron and Qarinus in Tevinter.The first New Exalted March proved successful, as the holy armies managed to venture deep into Qunari-occupied territory, and plunder Qunari artifacts, such as Tome of Koslun.However, the second New Exalted March that took place 27 year later was a disaster, as the Qunari recaptured much of Antiva. The Qunari landed near Ostwick and launched assaults against Starkhaven and Kirkwall. Starkhaven prevailed, but Kirkwall fell due to the magic of the Saarebas. The city remained under Qunari power until Orlesian Chevalier Ser Michel Lafaille liberated Kirkwall in 7:60 Storm. He found that most of the population was converted to the Qun. Kirkwall was incorporated into the Orlesian Empire, and Lafaille became the ruler of the city, named Viscount by the emperor.The Exalted March ended 24 years later in 7:84 Storm. The Qunari were in retreat, yet still holding on to Kont-aar and Par Vollen.Peace treaty data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3D

By then, rebuilding all the destruction caused was considered more important than trying to dislodge the Qunari from Kont-aar once again. A meeting between envoys of all the human lands (except for Tevinter) and the Qunari at Llomerryn resulted in the signing of the Llomerryn Accords and peace being declared. Peace was not established between Tevinter Imperium and the Qunari, but skirmishes were few while the Qunari pulled back to Par Vollen and rebuilt.

Modifié par dragonflight288, 23 janvier 2014 - 10:42 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

hhh89 wrote...

Without considering the PC's achievements (otherwise we can say that 90% of abominations aren't dangerous at all, in the games the mages lost most of the time against templars, who not only can prevent mages from casting their spell, but (considering what Gaider wrote in Asunder) can protect themselves from magic a lot better than common non-mages (they can erect auras/barriers that limits the effect of magics). I don't see how templars being able to defeat mages (which is what they Excel at), should be considered as evidence that mages aren't powerful.
I'm not saying that they're demigods. I'm saying that they're a powerful, and can turn the tide against certain threats, which isn't stated only in the codex (and not only in the qunari war. They were of great help during the second Blight too, since Drakon recruited a lot of them in his ranks, and they prove to be useful), but they experienced characters in the game too.

I wasn't talking about templars (still qunari have equivalent and tallis know some anti-magical trick as well).Many slavers or mercenaries were able defeat mages or simple force them to flee.Examples sketch , mages killed by leliana, mages captured by slavers ,senior enchanter that can't deal with few spiders and more. Some mages can be rly powerful like corypehus he did impressive magic show (as long that wasn't just varric tale) still he is one of most powerful mages in history.As far beyond some powerful mages , other mages were rather weak or even unable to prevent being possessed.       

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 23 janvier 2014 - 10:47 .

[Veruin]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
(still qunari have equivalent and tallis know some anti-magical trick as well)

Out of curiosity, what is the Qunari equivilent as well as what is Tallis's?  I wouldn't be surprised if it was added in to make her more "awesome".

[Hellion Rex]

Veruin wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
(still qunari have equivalent and tallis know some anti-magical trick as well)

Out of curiosity, what is the Qunari equivilent as well as what is Tallis's?  I wouldn't be surprised if it was added in to make her more "awesome".

The Arvaarad.

[Veruin]

eluvianix wrote...

The Arvaarad.

That only tells me about who is in control of the leash.  Do they have anti-magic abilities like Templars?  Because I don't think that rod would work on non qunari mages.  If it did, I would assume the one in Da2 would have at least tried to use it against Hawke/Merril/Anders.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Veruin wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
(still qunari have equivalent and tallis know some anti-magical trick as well)

Out of curiosity, what is the Qunari equivilent as well as what is Tallis's?  I wouldn't be surprised if it was added in to make her more "awesome".

I can't renember what name they had (qunari have weird names) and tallis means if i renember correctly "to solve" or something like that i can be wrong but in redemption she was send to capture mage so anti-magiacl skills can have sense but you might be right i hate tallis so well...

[Hellion Rex]

Veruin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

The Arvaarad.

That only tells me about who is in control of the leash.  Do they have anti-magic abilities like Templars?  Because I don't think that rod would work on non qunari mages.  If it did, I would assume the one in Da2 would have at least tried to use it against Hawke/Merril/Anders.

They probably have some measure of technology to compensate for the lack of anti-magic. I don't know where in the hell Tallis got her skills from.

[The Elder King]

@thekomandorshepars: Prevent possession isn't a necessarily sign that a mage is weak in term of abilities.
The mages captured by spiders were young and untrained (if you're referring to Fenyerel quest). I don't know about Tallis's abilities or qunari anti-magic abilities in general. Sketch was hunted by numerous powerful groups, and was alone.
I'm not saying that mages can't be defeated by normal people (though they have to be talented). I'm saying that mages are gifted with abilities more powerful than common men, and have proven to be very useful in numerous wars in history. And I'm not saying that most mages are as powerful as the top mages we saw. But they are plently that are powerful.
You want to continue to believe that most mages could be easily defeated by non-mages, and that they're not useful? It's your choice. Just don't expect people to agree with you.

Modifié par hhh89, 23 janvier 2014 - 10:59 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

hhh89 wrote...

Prevent possession isn't a necessarily sign that a mage is weak in term of abilities.
The mages captured by spiders were young and untrained (if you're referring to Fenyerel quest). I don't know about Tallis's abilities or qunari anti-magic abilities in general. Sketch was hunted by numerous powerful groups, and was alone.
I'm not saying that mages can't be defeated by normal people (though they have to be talented). I'm saying that mages are gifted with abilities more powerful than common men, and have proven to be very useful in numerous wars in history. And I'm not saying that most mages are as powerful as the top mages we saw. But they are plently that are powerful.
You want to continue to believe that most mages could be easily defeated by non-mages, and that they're not useful? It's your choice. Just don't expect people to agree with you when the games shown otherwise.

Well Feynriel and Thrask daughter is one but if you play as pro-mage hawke you can get quest with imprisoned mages that were teaken by slavers.Another matter is senior enchanter (which is second highest position in one circle)  that can't handle few spiders.As far velanna and corypheus were only mages that showed be worth something (well i guess other mages companions can puted here as well).Sketch was defated (he had warrior on his side) by group of mercenaries in leliana song and we have situation from da 2 with him.You said that games shown otherwise but please tell me where kirkwall mages were defeated by templars who used pure tactical trening and force not anti-magic that same for seekers from dawn of the seeker but you can argue that was crap. 

If we go into blood mage territory i can admit it blood mages are powerful but normal mages i can argue.  

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 23 janvier 2014 - 11:09 .

[Veruin]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
Another matter is senior enchanter (which is second highest position in one circle)  that can't handle few spiders.

I thought that was because she had arachnophobia and not because she wasn't capable?

[The Baconer]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
I wasn't talking about battle only about war and thedas...
when qunari started this they were wining to point...
Is there even a book about qunari wars as far i renember we have only codex unless there is something about that in stolen throne or calling because i didn't read books about that...

The war drained the resources of every nation in Thedas, leaving most on the brink of collapse. For the giants,
it did not appear to be the damage to their armada or the loss of their
soldiers, but the terrible toll upon the Rivaini population that
prompted their retreat. When the Third New Exalted March had all but
massacred the people of Kont-aar without even chipping the Qunari
occupying force, the giants finally withdrew.

[Br3admax]

The fact that Tevinter and Par Vollen still engage in warfare makes me think that most of that is an overstatement.

[The Elder King]

Veruin wrote...
I thought that was because she had arachnophobia and not because she wasn't capable?

I don't remember if she stated it, but she seemed scared, so it's a possible explanation explanation.
@Thekomandorshepard: as I said, mages can be defeated by non-mages. Not every mage is strong, I'm not arguing that, and facing multiple enemies is difficult even for mages. About Sketch, who captured him in the dlc (I haven't played it)? Beside, he was hunted by powerful enemies, and he might not be a powerful mage. As for the mage captured by slavers in Act 3, I don't recall the quest. Who was captured?
As for examples in the game. Wynne is strong (Asunder actually shown she's far stronger than in DAO). Orsino is strong (as shown if you let him being a bait). Anders is strong. Irving isn't shown fighting, but he's strong willed. Velanna, as you said, is strong. Bethany and Morrigan are very young, but are talented. Marethari was able with her healing magic to slow down the taint of Mahariel for (apparently) a good aumont of time, something that I don't remember being accomplished.
I don't consider the anime's value in term of skills rapresentation, otherwise I doubt I should've many problems when I'll travel with Cassandra.

Modifié par hhh89, 23 janvier 2014 - 11:27 .

[Magdalena11]

eluvianix wrote...

Veruin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

The Arvaarad.

That only tells me about who is in control of the leash.  Do they have anti-magic abilities like Templars?  Because I don't think that rod would work on non qunari mages.  If it did, I would assume the one in Da2 would have at least tried to use it against Hawke/Merril/Anders.

They probably have some measure of technology to compensate for the lack of anti-magic. I don't know where in the hell Tallis got her skills from.

I don't think the control rod would work on non-Qunari mages.  While I realize it's not canon, I think Redemption showed that it was the collar that prevented magic.  And I don't know if a templar's magic nullifying abilities would work on Qunari mages either.  They didn't seem to do much for Cairn.

Which of Tallis' skills did you mean?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Veruin wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
Another matter is senior enchanter (which is second highest position in one circle)  that can't handle few spiders.

I thought that was because she had arachnophobia and not because she wasn't capable?

It is not imposible still she wasn't scared (well beyond being accused of incompetence) she was more that she couldn't handle them but it is disscusion like whether morrigan have crush on sten or just trolling him...

"The war drained the resources of every nation in Thedas, leaving most on the brink of collapse. For the giants,
it did not appear to be the damage to their armada or the loss of their
soldiers, but the terrible toll upon the Rivaini population that
prompted their retreat. When the Third New Exalted March had all but
massacred the people of Kont-aar without even chipping the Qunari
occupying force, the giants finally withdrew.

From where this quote is because it smells like exaggeration it is from codex?  

hhh89 wrote...

Veruin wrote...
I thought that was because she had arachnophobia and not because she wasn't capable?

I don't remember if she stated it, but she seemed scared, so it's a possible explanation explanation.
@Thekomandorshepard:
as I said, mages can be defeated by non-mages. Not every mage is
strong, I'm not arguing that, and facing multiple enemies is difficult
even for mages. About Sketch, who captured him in the dlc (I haven't
played it)? Beside, he was hunted by powerful enemies, and he might not
be a powerful mage. As for the mage captured by slavers in Act 3, I
don't recall the quest. Who was captured?
As for examples in the
game. Wynne is strong (Asunder actually shown she's far stronger than in
DAO). Orsino is strong (as shown if you let him being a bait). Anders
is strong. Irving isn't shown fighting, but he's strong willed. Velanna,
as you said, is strong. Bethany and Morrigan are very young, but are
talented. Marethari was able with her healing magic to slow down the
taint of Mahariel for (apparently) a good aumont of time, something that
I don't remember being accomplished.
I don't consider the anime's
value in term of skills rapresentation, otherwise I doubt I should've
many problems when I'll travel with Cassandra.

Sketch and his friend tug (that was his name?) was caputred by group of mercenaries leliana was there as well still i don't cound her because she was wounded 3 peoples captured sketch and tug and boss captured leliana.

That wasn't third act it was second there is special 2 quest for pro-mages one is about framing templar second is about rescuing mage. here there it is .Orsino menaged to kill few qunari before his group and him of mages were killed well he was only alive and well he is first enchanter most powerful mage in circle , anders and wynne were "special"  as they were possessed crap even wynne skill give her massive bonus for spell power (still it may be just gameplay) but anders prove that spirit gives you a lot of power. I m not impresed with marethari especially that she ended as abomnation because she loved merril but still... with bethany im not impresed as well as im not with carver she died with ogre. 

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 23 janvier 2014 - 11:51 .

[Veruin]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
 whether morrigan have crush on sten or just trolling him...

Morrigan has a thing for power and men..so I wouldn't be surprised if she just wanted some no commitment fun. 

[Medhia Nox]

@Veruin: If you accuse her of being incompetent... she actually says she doesn't think so, and THEN realizes what she's saying and emphatically says no.

Which to me says... she's incompetent.

But I hardly hold her accountable - incompetence is a Thedosian mage trait.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 24 janvier 2014 - 12:16 .

[Hellion Rex]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Veruin: If you accuse her of being incompetent... she actually says she doesn't think so, and THEN realizes what she's saying and emphatically says no.

Which to me says... she's incompetent.

But I hardly hold her accountable - incompetence is a Thedosian mage trait.

SIlly Morrigan hater.

Edit: Incompetence is hardly a monopoly held by mages.

Modifié par eluvianix, 24 janvier 2014 - 12:17 .

[The Elder King]

@Thekomandorshepard: first, thanks for the info.
Second, Anders and Wynne were very skilled healer even before Faith and Justice's intervention. And I wasn't talking about Faith's ability. Spirits can strenghten mages, but we don't know if they can by default, or they have to assume control of the body. When in Asunder Whnne defeated a aprire demon, Faith assumed control in the fade. When she annihilated the darskpawn before, she used, as far as I know, her own powers.
Marethari's actions in act 3 could mean that she was stupid and careless, but her magical abilities were impressive. Slowing the taint is a great feat.
As for Bethany, defeating an ogre is considered both by the codex and by Flemeth an impressive feat. They're not easy to kill, so not everyone could do it. Bethany was very young at the start of the game, so she could've become more powerful; I just said that she was talented (Anders believed she was talented enough to be part of the Wardens).

[Veruin]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Talking about Morrigan or the elf senior enchanter with the spiders?

[Hellion Rex]

Veruin wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

Talking about Morrigan or the elf senior enchanter with the spiders?

Wait, the who?

[Veruin]

eluvianix wrote...

Wait, the who?

There's an elven senior enchanter in the magi origin.  If you clear some cavern of spiders, she signs your rod of fire form.