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[Medhia Nox]

@Veruin: The senior enchanter with the spiders.

[Veruin]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Veruin: The senior enchanter with the spiders.

Thanks for clearing that up.  Even on my recent mage playthrough, I didn't bother with her and just sold Jowan out.  I only remember her being afraid of something and remembered the spiders.

[thetinyevil]

dragonflight288 wrote...

 I noticed this has gone into Qunari territory and mages value. So I figure I'll share what I know.

I noticced someone made reference to a codex that talks about mages being Andrastian nations 'ace-in-the-whole' against the Qunari, and that's the Codex Entry "Par Vollen: The Occupied North.

Par Vollen: The Occupied North

In the 30th year of the Steel Age, the first Qunari ships were sighted off the coast of Par Vollen in the far north, marking the beginning of a new age of warfare.History calls this the First Qunari War, but it was mostly a one-sided bloodbath, with the Qunari advancing far into the mainland. Qunari warriors in glittering steel armor carved through armies with ease. Their cannons, the likes of which our ancestors had never seen, reduced city walls to rubble in a matter of seconds.Stories of Qunari occupation vary greatly. It is said they dismantled families and sent captives to "learning camps" for indoctrination into their religion. Those who refused to cooperate disappeared to mines or construction camps.For every tale of suffering, however, there is another of enlightenment deriving from something called the "Qun." This is either a philosophical code or a written text that governs all aspects of Qunari life, perhaps both. One converted Seheran reported pity for those who refused to embrace the Qun, as if the conquerors had led him to a sort of self-discovery. "For all my life, I followed the Maker wherever his path led me," he wrote, "but in the Qun I have found the means to travel my own path."It has been said that the most complete way to wipe out a people is not with blades but with books. Thankfully, a world that had repelled four Blights would not easily bow to a foreign aggressor. And so the Exalted Marchesbegan.The greatest advantage of the Chantry-led forces was the Circle of Magi. For all their technology, the Qunari appeared to harbor great hatred for magic. Faced with cannons, the Chantry responded with lightning and balls of fire.The Qunari armies lacked the sheer numbers of humanity. So many were slain at Marnas Pell, on both sides, that the Veil is said to be permanently sundered, the ruins still plagued by restless corpses. But each year, the Chantry pushed further and further into the Qunari lines, although local converts to the Qun proved difficult to return to Andraste's teachings.By the end of the Storm Age, the Qunari were truly pushed back. Rivain was the only human land that retained the Qunari religion after being freed, and its rulers attempted to barter a peace. Most human lands signed the Llomerryn Accord, excepting the Tevinter Imperium. It is a shaky peace that has lasted to this day.--From [/i]The Exalted Marches: An Examination of Chantry Warfare, by Sister Petrine, Chantry scholar[/i]

Here's an account of the Qunari Wars.

Source: http://dragonage.wik...iki/Qunari_Wars

The First Qunari War data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3D

In 6:30 Steel[1] a race of humanoids previously unknown toThedosians – called Qunari – lands in Par Vollen, which belonged to the Tevinter Imperium at the time. They conquered it quickly.Word of Qunari invasion didn't reach the rest of Thedas until 6:32 Steel when the Qunari invasion began as their ships berth in great numbers at the coasts of Seheron and northern Rivain. The conflict became known as the First Qunari War,[1] one of many Qunari Wars to follow.Conquest of the north data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3DEditWithin two years the invaders spread to Antiva, and captured Treviso in 6:34 Steel as the Qunari's initial advances were great. After they had conquered much of the Tevinter Imperium, Rivain, and Antiva and they began to assault the Free Marches far to the south of the Imperium, only ten years into invasion. Only Minrathousitself remained besieged but unconquered in the north.The invading Qunari did not kill their prisoners, but instead converted the defeated to their rigoristic Qun. All the successful converts became Qunari.Liberation of the north. 

data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3DBy 6:85 Steel, 55 years after the Qunari had been first seen in Thedas, the humans had organized themselves and pushed back. Humans rebelled from Qunari captivity all over Tevinter Imperium, and Qunari's hold began to loosen.The war continued for the rest of the century, and into next one. After nearly quarter of a century, in 7:23 Storm, the Qunari were pushed back to Seheron and Rivain, but still held on to those regions tightly.The Battle of the Nocen Sea was the largest naval engagement in history and resulted in a stalemate and the destruction of many of the ships on both sides. With both sides exhausted, an impasse began.Andrastian and Imperial Chantry data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3D

Next year the Andrastian Chantry and Imperial Chantrywere desperate enough to work together for the first time since the schism to take down the threat to both organizations. They declared the New Exalted Marchesagainst the Qunari – to retake Rivain, and Seheron and Qarinus in Tevinter.The first New Exalted March proved successful, as the holy armies managed to venture deep into Qunari-occupied territory, and plunder Qunari artifacts, such as Tome of Koslun.However, the second New Exalted March that took place 27 year later was a disaster, as the Qunari recaptured much of Antiva. The Qunari landed near Ostwick and launched assaults against Starkhaven and Kirkwall. Starkhaven prevailed, but Kirkwall fell due to the magic of the Saarebas. The city remained under Qunari power until Orlesian Chevalier Ser Michel Lafaille liberated Kirkwall in 7:60 Storm. He found that most of the population was converted to the Qun. Kirkwall was incorporated into the Orlesian Empire, and Lafaille became the ruler of the city, named Viscount by the emperor.The Exalted March ended 24 years later in 7:84 Storm. The Qunari were in retreat, yet still holding on to Kont-aar and Par Vollen.Peace treaty data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3D

By then, rebuilding all the destruction caused was considered more important than trying to dislodge the Qunari from Kont-aar once again. A meeting between envoys of all the human lands (except for Tevinter) and the Qunari at Llomerryn resulted in the signing of the Llomerryn Accords and peace being declared. Peace was not established between Tevinter Imperium and the Qunari, but skirmishes were few while the Qunari pulled back to Par Vollen and rebuilt.

Thank you! I knew I had seen it somewhere but couldn't remember where. Thank you.

[thetinyevil]

Veruin wrote...

thetinyevil wrote...

Third mages don't get silk sheets and we never see what they eat. They could eat like kings or they could very well be feed slop that has just enough nutritional value to keep them alive but weak. We don't know.

Fourth it is the Chantry that blocks technological development not the mages. Mages are hardly let out of the tower where they can actually do some good in the world. The Chantry sees some advancements in the same light as the mages. An affront or sin. Also in DD:A we seen that there have been explosives invented, by an insane dwarf(who was funny as hell) who later got chased by the Qunari because they didn't want anyone else beside them having explosives. So they are also blocking technological development for the rest of Thedas as well.

And lastly please for the love of God when you want to post something please write in on Word first. It will correct your grammer. Which needs a lot of help. Like I said before it takes me forever to decipher what you wrote.

3.  Wynne mentions that the tranquil make ales with a variety of spices.  Going off that, I doubt they eat modestly like the chantry sisters do (Which according to Leliana is biscuits and lightly boiled/steam vegetables).  While it's unlikely they have silk sheets and candied grapes, you cannot deny that they are treated much better compared to the normal people of Thedas.  And for what reason?  Because of what they were born with.

4.  It's because anytime the mages are let out of the tower, someone screws them over.  See Anders.  They used to have exercises outside the tower, to get some sun and what not, but had to cancel them because Anders kept using it as an opportunity to escape.  (I will admit this is the Fereldan circle, which is usually considered the more lenient ones, but the point still stands.)

The chantry blocks magical developments, not technological.  Thedas lacks in technological advancements because they have become reliant on magic, unlike the dwarves and qunari.

Magic (Or the laziness of it) is what is stopping technological development in Thedas. (Why should I invent X when magic can do it already?)  Not the chantry.

5.  Good luck with that, he's been that way for months.

3. I remember hearing that conversation and I think it was in once of codexs but I had always thought everything made by the tranquil was sold an the money earned was given to the Chantry. Also I highly doubt the Chantry would feed the mages better then they do their Clergy. Since according to the Chant mages are an affront to the Maker and don't see them as people, as indicated by Cullen and sevreal others whoes names escape me. So I'm pretty sure their meals are very modest. They also may have a roof over their heads and clothes on their back but so do slaves, people sold into prostiution or the Crows,Zevran calls it a gilded cage but a cage none the less, doesn't mean they have it better then other people in Thedas.

4. I understand why Anders did what he did.  I would have done the same thing except I would have filled my pockets with stones and stopped swiming about half way across and let myself go down. Death would be better then living in a hell like the circle.

The Chantry blocks both technological and magical develpment. If they didn't the Thedas would be further along than it is because they only rely on magic during war time or when some noble/royalty needs healing other then that mages are kept in the tower until they mercifuly die. Tevinter relies on mage far more heavily then the White Chantry lands and they SEEM to be more techologically advanced then White Chantry countries. 

Modifié par thetinyevil, 24 janvier 2014 - 01:01 .

[SgtSteel91]

I thought the mainland Thedas was technologically inferior to say, the Qunari, was because the Qunari did not have to deal with potentailly decades to century long Blights that destroy the land and civilization and spend time, that could be spent on technological development, on rebuilding everything after the Blight's stopped.

[Hellion Rex]

SgtSteel91 wrote...

I thought the mainland Thedas was technologically inferior to say, the Qunari, was because the Qunari did not have to deal with potentailly decades to century long Blights that destroy the land and civilization and spend time, that could be spent on technological development, on rebuilding everything after the Blight's stopped.

Well the other part is that there is indeed a large reliance on magic in mainland Thedas. Look at Tevinter. Heck, look at the White Spire. They use magic to light everything within that structure.

[The Elder King]

The Chant doesn't say in any part that mages are less 'human' than non-mages. The only think it states is that magic should serve humanity, and not rule over it, and that blood magic is basically evil. In no part it states that normal mages are an affront to the Maker, as far as I know. Magic is even called a gift of the Maker, if I recall.

[thetinyevil]

Actually because of the blights Mainland Thedas should be more technologically advanced. Wars and disasters often result in inventions and moving forward with tech, as horrible as it is. They should have come up with better weapons to kill darkspawn and from those weapons other ideas should have formed and from those more so on and so forth. But the Chantry doesn't allow anything new into Thedas anything new is bad for the Chantry because if the people start relying more on the tech then relying on the Chantry as they have done for centuries it could and would be disastrous for Chantry.

[Veruin]

thetinyevil wrote...
3. I remember hearing that conversation and I think it was in once of codexs but I had always thought everything made by the tranquil was sold an the money earned was given to the Chantry. Also I highly doubt the Chantry would feed the mages better then they do their Clergy. Since according to the Chant mages are an affront to the Maker and less then human. So I'm pretty sure their meals are very modest. They also may have a roof over their heads and clothes on their back but so do slaves, people sold into prostiution or the Crows,Zevran calls it a gilded cage but a cage none the less, doesn't mean they have it better then other people in Thedas.

4. I understand why Anders did what he did.  I would have done the same thing except I would have filled my pockets with stones and stopped swiming about half way across and let myself go down. Death would be better then living in a hell like the circle.

The Chantry blocks both technological and magical develpment. If they didn't the Thedas would be further along than it is because they only rely on magic during war time or when some noble/royalty needs healing other then that mages are kept in the tower until they mercifuly die. Tevinter relies on mage far more heavily then the White Chantry lands and they SEEM to be more techologically advanced then White Chantry countries. 

3.  The only thing they sell are lyrium enchantments and possibly healers to the wealthy.  Which goes back to funding the circles.  The chant only distinguishes maleficars, the ones who have turned against their kin, other than that, it is considered a gift (The ability) and a Curse.(The demons)   I'd also like the quote that you refer to of them being less than human.  The worst thing I hear the Chant talk about mages is that it's a curse.  It is a gilded cage, but it is no where near as "oppressive" as you believe it to be.  (Kirkwall is the exception as we are told that Kirkwall is THE worst of the circles)

As for feeding the mages, I think this is your cynicism of the Chantry speaking.  Since Leliana outright stated what they ate in the village aspects.  Do they eat better than that in the main cities?  Possibly.  But, if the tranquil have access to numerous spices to make these ales, (and the mages are allowed to partake in it.  Wynne states that's how she got so bleeding good at ale.) I see no reason to assume they are allowed exotic drinks but are forced to eat gruel and potatos.


Yes, they do.  The only thing mages are required to do are get an education and fight for the country in times of need.  That's it.  For that, they are provided with sturdy housing and 3 meals (possibly more) a day.  While the normal people are at the beck and call of their Arl/Lord/Whatever, live in small wooden shacks, are also required to serve in the military and do not have a guarantee that they will be eating today.

4.  Again, this ties into you thinking the Circle is a lot more oppressive than it is.  Could it be better?  Certainly.  Could it be worse?  Well, if you think the current system is oppressive....


Thedas includes Tevinter.  The only technology edge they have over the rest of Thedas, is magical.  Litany of Adralla is an example.  For everything else, everyone (Including Tevinter) is stagnated because they have magic to do it for them.  Why design a better irrigation system when we can summon rain clouds to water when needed?  Why bother inventing anything when magic can do it for me? 

The Qunari have aqueducts and better health care because they don't bother with magic and the Dwarves effectively have an industrial thing going on downstairs since they have no magic to rely on.

Again, the only thing the Chantry restricts is magical research.  Everything else is because the nations are lazy and reliant on magic.

Honestly, I think your a little cynical towards the Chantry and are only seeing what you want to see.  I myself don't like organized religions (The ones that have politcal power ala Chantry), but give credit where credit is due.

Modifié par Veruin, 24 janvier 2014 - 01:16 .

[thetinyevil]

hhh89 wrote...

The Chant doesn't say in any part that mages are less 'human' than non-mages. The only think it states is that magic should serve humanity, and not rule over it, and that blood magic is basically evil. In no part it states that normal mages are an affront to the Maker, as far as I know. Magic is even called a gift of the Maker, if I recall.

And a curse don't for get that. Most people in Thedas seem to forget the gift part and focus on the curse part. And stating that magic should serve man, well many interpet it to mean that mages are less the human. Again look at Cullen, he even said mages aren't people they are weapons. I am sure I heard something simluar for other templars and sisters in Origins. And I ahve heard people call mages an affornt to the Maker, blaming them solely for the reason the Maker turn his back on Humanity.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Thedosian reliance on magic is what is preventing technological advancements.

[The Elder King]

@thetinyevil: I understand, but that's (as you said), an interpretation of the Chant (which isn't the only one, because not every templars or priests agree on). The Chant, in its words, never stated in which position mages should be other than not as the rulers.

[KainD]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Thedosian reliance on magic is what is preventing technological advancements.

And what's the point of bothering with tech if you indeed can do all the same things with magic? 
Perhaps with allowed advanced magical research, magic coould acomplish things that tech never could, looking at eluvians as an example - insta-travel. 

[thetinyevil]

Veruin wrote...

thetinyevil wrote...
3. I remember hearing that conversation and I think it was in once of codexs but I had always thought everything made by the tranquil was sold an the money earned was given to the Chantry. Also I highly doubt the Chantry would feed the mages better then they do their Clergy. Since according to the Chant mages are an affront to the Maker and less then human. So I'm pretty sure their meals are very modest. They also may have a roof over their heads and clothes on their back but so do slaves, people sold into prostiution or the Crows,Zevran calls it a gilded cage but a cage none the less, doesn't mean they have it better then other people in Thedas.

4. I understand why Anders did what he did.  I would have done the same thing except I would have filled my pockets with stones and stopped swiming about half way across and let myself go down. Death would be better then living in a hell like the circle.

The Chantry blocks both technological and magical develpment. If they didn't the Thedas would be further along than it is because they only rely on magic during war time or when some noble/royalty needs healing other then that mages are kept in the tower until they mercifuly die. Tevinter relies on mage far more heavily then the White Chantry lands and they SEEM to be more techologically advanced then White Chantry countries. 

3.  The only thing they sell are lyrium enchantments and possibly healers to the wealthy.  Which goes back to funding the circles.  The chant only distinguishes maleficars, the ones who have turned against their kin, other than that, it is considered a gift (The ability) and a Curse.(The demons)   I'd also like the quote that you refer to of them being less than human.  The worst thing I hear the Chant talk about mages is that it's a curse.  It is a gilded cage, but it is no where near as "oppressive" as you believe it to be.  (Kirkwall is the exception as we are told that Kirkwall is THE worst of the circles)

As for feeding the mages, I think this is your cynicism of the Chantry speaking.  Since Leliana outright stated what they ate in the village aspects.  Do they eat better than that in the main cities?  Possibly.  But, if the tranquil have access to numerous spices to make these ales, (and the mages are allowed to partake in it.  Wynne states that's how she got so bleeding good at ale.) I see no reason to assume they are allowed exotic drinks but are forced to eat gruel and potatos.


Yes, they do.  The only thing mages are required to do are get an education and fight for the country in times of need.  That's it.  For that, they are provided with sturdy housing and 3 meals (possibly more) a day.  While the normal people are at the beck and call of their Arl/Lord/Whatever, live in small wooden shacks, are also required to serve in the military and do not have a guarantee that they will be eating today.

4.  Again, this ties into you thinking the Circle is a lot more oppressive than it is.  Could it be better?  Certainly.  Could it be worse?  Well, if you think the current system is oppressive....


Thedas includes Tevinter.  The only technology edge they have over the rest of Thedas, is magical.  Litany of Adralla is an example.  For everything else, everyone (Including Tevinter) is stagnated because they have magic to do it for them.  Why design a better irrigation system when we can summon rain clouds to water when needed?  Why bother inventing anything when magic can do it for me? 

The Qunari have aqueducts and better health care because they don't bother with magic and the Dwarves effectively have an industrial thing going on downstairs since they have no magic to rely on.

Again, the only thing the Chantry restricts is magical research.  Everything else is because the nations are lazy and reliant on magic.

Honestly, I think your a little cynical towards the Chantry and are only seeing what you want to see.  I myself don't like organized religions (The ones that have politcal power ala Chantry), but give credit where credit is due.

We could go around in circles about this all day. So lets agree to disagree.

[Veruin]

thetinyevil wrote...
And a curse don't for get that. Most people in Thedas seem to forget the gift part and focus on the curse part. And stating that magic should serve man, well many interpet it to mean that mages are less the human. Again look at Cullen, he even said mages aren't people they are weapons. I am sure I heard something simluar for other templars and sisters in Origins. And I ahve heard people call mages an affornt to the Maker, blaming them solely for the reason the Maker turn his back on Humanity.

So, it's not the Chant itself that's the problem.  It's the way people interept it.

This is the same Cullen who is just a little biased because he was tortured at the Fereldan Circle, right?  Yea....

[Hellion Rex]

DID SOMEONE SAY CULLEN?!?!?!

[Veruin]

*Raises hand*

[The Elder King]

eluvianix wrote...

DID SOMEONE SAY CULLEN?!?!?!

Do you know that Wiedzmin posted in both the Twitter thread and the Cullen thread that a big surprise for fans is coming soon?

[sandalisthemaker]

eluvianix wrote...

DID SOMEONE SAY CULLEN?!?!?!

Your Templar weakness.

[EmperorSahlertz]

KainD wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Thedosian reliance on magic is what is preventing technological advancements.

And what's the point of bothering with tech if you indeed can do all the same things with magic? 
Perhaps with allowed advanced magical research, magic coould acomplish things that tech never could, looking at eluvians as an example - insta-travel. 

Magic cannot be crafted by everyone, nor can it be used by everyone. Tech can be crafted and used by anyone. That is the point of advancing tech over magic.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 24 janvier 2014 - 01:36 .

[The Elder King]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

DID SOMEONE SAY CULLEN?!?!?!

Your Templar weakness.

Better than being a qunari, no?

[KainD]

eluvianix wrote...

DID SOMEONE SAY CULLEN?!?!?!

Cullen:

[thetinyevil]

Veruin wrote...

thetinyevil wrote...
And a curse don't for get that. Most people in Thedas seem to forget the gift part and focus on the curse part. And stating that magic should serve man, well many interpet it to mean that mages are less the human. Again look at Cullen, he even said mages aren't people they are weapons. I am sure I heard something simluar for other templars and sisters in Origins. And I ahve heard people call mages an affornt to the Maker, blaming them solely for the reason the Maker turn his back on Humanity.

So, it's not the Chant itself that's the problem.  It's the way people interept it.

This is the same Cullen who is just a little biased because he was tortured at the Fereldan Circle, right?  Yea....

Like I said it wasn't just Cullen but other as well. There is Karras, Meredith, Alirk plus a lot of Clergy, Templars, and people outside the Chantry who feel the same way. Oh yeah the Revered mother at Ostgar. 

[sandalisthemaker]

hhh89 wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

DID SOMEONE SAY CULLEN?!?!?!

Your Templar weakness.

Better than being a qunari, no?

The Qunari are just awful.

[Veruin]

KainD wrote...

Cullen:

He will tear you limb from limb.