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[Hellion Rex]

Veruin wrote...
I always thought mudanes were like tranquil, effectively invisible and undesirable.

That may be true, it's just that we so rarely hear of non mages being possessed, so we lack a lot of info. The only examples I have are the templars Tarohne manipulated and maybe Khedra.

[Veruin]

cjones91 wrote...
That's because there was Circle already there and the demons did'nt bother going after anyone else.Had there not been no mages in Kirkwall period then the non mages would have been targeted instead.Demons always go after mages because they are more valuable target but that does'nt mean possessions will stop if all mages disappeared of the face of Thedas.

I don't know where you get the idea where I said they'd completely stop.  They'd become a LOT more rarer than they are now.

[SgtSteel91]

Do you need to be possessed to be a Spirit Healer or Warrior? I though that a Spirit Healer had it's contracted Spirit lending its power from the other side of the Fade, and didn't have to cross through the Veil, or am I getting that wrong? Were Awakening Anders and Rhys, Sketch, etc all possessed and technically abominations?

[Hellion Rex]

SgtSteel91 wrote...

Do you need to be possessed to be a Spirit Healer or Warrior? I though that a Spirit Healer had it's contracted Spirit lending its power from the other side of the Fade, and didn't have to cross through the Veil, or am I getting that wrong? Were Awakening Anders and Rhys, Sketch, etc all possessed and technically abominations?

You don't technically need to be possessed. DA2 Ander's healing powers were certainly boosted by his Justice possession. But you still make deals with spiritual entities for power so that your healing magic becomes stronger. Btw, Rhys wasn't a spirit healer, he was a sprit medium.

[cjones91]

SgtSteel91 wrote...

Do you need to be possessed to be a Spirit Healer or Warrior? I though that a Spirit Healer had it's contracted Spirit lending its power from the other side of the Fade, and didn't have to cross through the Veil, or am I getting that wrong? Were Awakening Anders and Rhys, Sketch, etc all possessed and technically abominations?

Spirit Healers typically call upon Fade Spirits to assist them.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I far i renember being spirit healer don't require being possesed by spirit just by summoning their power to heal.And i rly doubt that normal person can make contact with spirit/demon without mage or them crossing veil. 

Besides there is nowhere stated as far that demon can posses non-mage in fade as well we don't have any examples every example involve demon crossing veil.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 24 janvier 2014 - 09:45 .

[Veruin]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

There are some other potential (likely?) results of Tranquiling (or slaughtering) all mages that I've not seen discussed.

I'd like to consider the reaction of the demon realm if the numbers of non-tranquil mages were severely reduced.

We know that mages aren't the only possible hosts for demon possession.  Demons do seek to possess mages because that magic gives them greater power - and we have seen demons compete for a mage's attention, as in the fade sequence with Feynriel.

Some of the non-mage demonic possessions we've seen include:
Arcane Horrors
Revenants
Shambling, Devouring, Walking, Enraged Corpses
Shambling, Devouring, Fanged Skeletons, Skeleton Archer, Skeleton Mage
Witherfang
Sophia Dryden
Amalia
Wilmod
The Harimanns
etc.

I would suggest a couple of different possibilities:

- With fewer non-tranquil mages in the population, demons would be constantly vying for them, such as what we saw with Feynriel.

- Demons may be more likely to seek mundane hosts, particularly those seeking power (like Loghain, Howe, Lady Harimann).  Mundanes with zero knowledge of the fade and zero training in demon resistance.  Mundanes like the companions we took to the fade to rescue Feynriel, all of whom accepted the demons' offer.

The bottom line here is that tranquiling or slaughtering mages has zero impact on the demon realm and its inhabitants.  They'll still be there, still looking for some way to cross the veil and experience life by possessing a host.

Arcane horrors are the deceased carcass of a mage, being possessed by a demon.  Basically zombie mage.

Witherfang was bound into a wolf, I wouldn't say that was a willing possession.

Not sure on Amalia, but considering her father, it's possible she's a mage as well.  

Again, The demon in Wilmod was forced into him.

Point 1. I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say here.

Point 2.  Assuming that demons can understand what politcal power is.  They may be able to read mines, but can they understand it?

Modifié par Veruin, 24 janvier 2014 - 09:46 .

[SgtSteel91]

So people are bring up that Spirit Healers and Warriors call upon Spirits (multiple) to boost their power.

Wouldn't it be safer to find one benevolent Spirit and make it your only contact when drawing power? I mean that, IMO, is what everyone thinks a Spirit Healer would logically do; find a Spirit of Compassion or something and get that Spirit to lend its power to them when healing, right?

Modifié par SgtSteel91, 24 janvier 2014 - 09:48 .

[Hellion Rex]

Pasquale1234 wrote...
Some of the non-mage demonic possessions we've seen include:
Arcane Horrors
Revenants
Shambling, Devouring, Walking, Enraged Corpses
Shambling, Devouring, Fanged Skeletons, Skeleton Archer, Skeleton Mage
Witherfang
Sophia Dryden
Amalia
Wilmod
The Harimanns
etc.

Arcane horrors are a pride demon infested mage corpse. Skeleton mage is clearly a MAGE possession. Witherfang was a spirit bound into the form of a wolf. Lady Harimann was a blood mage, and she clearly wasn't possessed. The rest were clearly enthralled, not possessed.

[SgtSteel91]

What about Revreants?

[Veruin]

SgtSteel91 wrote...

So people are bring up that Spirit Healers and Warriors call upon Spirits (multiple) to boost their power.

Wouldn't it be safer to find one benevolent Spirit and make it your only contact when drawing power? I mean that, IMO, is what everyone thinks a Spirit Healer does; find a Spirit of Compassion or something and get that Spirit to lend its power to them when healing, right?

Good luck with that, since I think Justice basically says that the spirits have no interest in mortals.  Whether he means possession or just plain interest, I'm not sure.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Veruin wrote...



Arcane horrors are the deceased carcass of a mage, being possessed by a demon.  Basically zombie mage.

Witherfang was bound into a wolf, I wouldn't say that was a willing possession.

Not sure on Amalia, but considering her father, it's possible she's a mage as well.  

Again, The demon in Wilmod was forced into him.

Point 1. I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say here.

Point 2.  Assuming that demons can understand what politcal power is.  They may be able to read mines, but can they understand it?

We don't know wether amalia was a mage but demon can posses her father (we don't know weather he is a mage as well) but demon was summoned and bonded there by wilhelm so demon already crossed veil.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 24 janvier 2014 - 09:50 .

[Hellion Rex]

Veruin wrote...
Point 2.  Assuming that demons can understand what politcal power is.  They may be able to read mines, but can they understand it?

I think upper tier demons like Pride or Desire probably understand it. Remember that we had a pride demon rule a city in the Free Marches for a decade.

[Veruin]

SgtSteel91 wrote...

What about Revreants?

Desire/Pride demon possessing a corpse.  So it's possible mages serve to augment a demons powers while mudanes hinder them.

[Hellion Rex]

SgtSteel91 wrote...

What about Revreants?

Those are pride demon infested corpses.

[Veruin]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

We don't know wether amalia was a mage but demon can posses her father (we don't know weather he is a mage as well) but demon was summoned and bonded there by wilhelm so demon already crossed veil.

Wait, there was an option for it to possess her father?

Also, you do know the guy doing magicky hand motions to dispell and raise a barrier is her father right?

[Veruin]

eluvianix wrote...

I think upper tier demons like Pride or Desire probably understand it. Remember that we had a pride demon rule a city in the Free Marches for a decade.

If it was possible to possess a mudane through the fade and the more powerful demons have an incentive to do so, why haven't these happened more often? 

Is there a conspiracy that quite a few notable people in history were possessed? 

Modifié par Veruin, 24 janvier 2014 - 09:56 .

[SgtSteel91]

Veruin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

I think upper tier demons like Pride or Desire probably understand it. Remember that we had a pride demon rule a city in the Free Marches for a decade.

If it was possible to possess a mudane through the fade and the more powerful demons have an incentive to do so, why haven't these happened more often? 

Is there a conspiracy that quite a few notable people in history were possessed? 

Because it's easier to possess a mage and the Demons are lazy?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Veruin wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

We don't know wether amalia was a mage but demon can posses her father (we don't know weather he is a mage as well) but demon was summoned and bonded there by wilhelm so demon already crossed veil.

Wait, there was an option for it to possess her father?

Also, you do know the guy doing magicky hand motions to dispell and raise a barrier is her father right?

yes all you need to do is not kill demon at first and come back to father and tell him you didn't found his daughter and he will run there (what interesting if you killed gril he won't do that instead he will thank you even if you say that same thing;)) .He said that he had wilhelm key why i don't belive he is mage?
1)first he don't wear robe or have staff as well he isn't cricle mage
2)You would argue that he was apostate but if so he woudn't have any mage traning and end as demon snack at this moment of his life very quickly
3)You would argue that his father trained him but still he was possesed in seconds after meeting demon what sugest that he didn't had any trening.  

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 24 janvier 2014 - 10:00 .

[Hellion Rex]

Veruin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

I think upper tier demons like Pride or Desire probably understand it. Remember that we had a pride demon rule a city in the Free Marches for a decade.

If it was possible to possess a mudane through the fade and the more powerful demons have an incentive to do so, why haven't these happened more often? 

Is there a conspiracy that quite a few notable people in history were possessed? 

To be honest, it wouldn't surprise me if this has happened more than people in Thedas realized. Greater demons of pride and ambition possessing people in places of power throughout history, The devs have been talking about how there is some force in DAI working behind the scenes. I have long since wondered if there has been perhaps a GPD manipulating some of the events in the world.

Modifié par eluvianix, 24 janvier 2014 - 10:02 .

[Pasquale1234]

eluvianix wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...
Some of the non-mage demonic possessions we've seen include:
Arcane Horrors
Revenants
Shambling, Devouring, Walking, Enraged Corpses
Shambling, Devouring, Fanged Skeletons, Skeleton Archer, Skeleton Mage
Witherfang
Sophia Dryden
Amalia
Wilmod
The Harimanns
etc.

Arcane horrors are a pride demon infested mage corpse. Skeleton mage is clearly a MAGE possession. Witherfang was a spirit bound into the form of a wolf. Lady Harimann was a blood mage, and she clearly wasn't possessed. The rest were clearly enthralled, not possessed.

I forgot Lady Harimann was a blood mage.  Oops.

RE Arcane Horrors, yes they are mage corpses, but they're corpses regardless.

Interesting creature, the Skeleton mage.  They are skeletons possessed by ... ?  Or do you suppose they are skeletons of mages?

My reason for mentioning WItherfang, corpses, and skeletons was to demonstrate that demons can possess creatures and intimate objects.  We've seen possessed trees, and wiki mentions demons can even possess rocks, etc. - pretty much anything that doesn't successfully resist them, and that would include mundanes.

[The Baconer]

Veruin wrote...
Desire/Pride demon possessing a corpse.  So it's possible mages serve to augment a demons powers while mudanes hinder them.

Possibly. I remember in DA:O a fight with a Revenant was a much more serious affair than an Arcane Horror, with the roles being reversed in DA2, with Revanants falling under the "Commander" archetype. The codex describes a Revanant wiping out an entire unit of men, most likely Templars, so I wouldn't think they are any less feared than their undead mage cousins.

[Pasquale1234]

Veruin wrote...

Point 2.  Assuming that demons can understand what politcal power is.  They may be able to read mines, but can they understand it?

Maybe not, but - desire demon feasts on Lady Harimann's ambition.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Pasquale1234 wrote...


I forgot Lady Harimann was a blood mage.  Oops.

RE Arcane Horrors, yes they are mage corpses, but they're corpses regardless.

Interesting creature, the Skeleton mage.  They are skeletons possessed by ... ?  Or do you suppose they are skeletons of mages?

My reason for mentioning WItherfang, corpses, and skeletons was to demonstrate that demons can possess creatures and intimate objects.  We've seen possessed trees, and wiki mentions demons can even possess rocks, etc. - pretty much anything that doesn't successfully resist them, and that would include mundanes.

First witherfang was zathrian creation so mage caused that , and trees are possesed because veil in brecilian borest is thin and it have sense because in that place were many battle between elves and tevinter and both had mages and as we are proven using magic very quickly weaken veil so forest was what it was because of mages...

And as i said demon can posses this things only when cross veil.

[Pasquale1234]

eluvianix wrote...

Veruin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

I think upper tier demons like Pride or Desire probably understand it. Remember that we had a pride demon rule a city in the Free Marches for a decade.

If it was possible to possess a mudane through the fade and the more powerful demons have an incentive to do so, why haven't these happened more often? 

Is there a conspiracy that quite a few notable people in history were possessed? 

To be honest, it wouldn't surprise me if this has happened more than people in Thedas realized. Greater demons of pride and ambition possessing people in places of power throughout history, The devs have been talking about how there is some force in DAI working behind the scenes. I have long since wondered if there has been perhaps a GPD manipulating some of the events in the world.

That is what I have been thinking as well.

And mages serve as the first line of defense against demons, since they are the only ones able to defeat them in the fade.

Also - the veil itself.  I have to assume it was created by magic, and might require magic to maintain it - like the defenses at the Warden's Prison.

These are additional reasons why the world could be at risk if mages were tranquiled or slaughtered.