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[TheKomandorShepard]

Pasquale1234 wrote...


That is what I have been thinking as well.

And mages serve as the first line of defense against demons, since they are the only ones able to defeat them in the fade.

Also - the veil itself.  I have to assume it was created by magic, and might require magic to maintain it - like the defenses at the Warden's Prison.

These are additional reasons why the world could be at risk if mages were tranquiled or slaughtered.

You want send guys who make them stronger and lost almost every fight with them good idea bro

[Pasquale1234]

And you wonder why people are hostile to you?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...


That is what I have been thinking as well.

And mages serve as the first line of defense against demons, since they are the only ones able to defeat them in the fade.

Also - the veil itself.  I have to assume it was created by magic, and might require magic to maintain it - like the defenses at the Warden's Prison.

These are additional reasons why the world could be at risk if mages were tranquiled or slaughtered.

You want send guys who make them stronger and lost almost every fight with them good idea bro

[Hanako Ikezawa]

^Oops, didn't mean to do that. Meant to put:
"It's better than sending people who can do absolutely nothing to them in the Fade.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Aren't you the one who concluded that Komandor was a troll and that we were all better off ignoring him?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Pasquale mockery is best way to show how ridiculus idea is and well most amusing:P

Revan first if i would want send someone to fade to fight demons (if i want to do that) it would be templars who are specialized in fighting them sure not that they are very effective as we are shown but as far they are most effective force to fight demons in thedas and well when they lose it still won't end as nearly bad if mage become possesed.But better just deal with veil than send someone to fight army of unstopable creatures that can control you...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

@Riverdales:

I didn't realize who it was until after I responded.

[Pasquale1234]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
Aren't you the one who concluded that Komandor was a troll and that we were all better off ignoring him?

Along with several other people, I believe. I never read, but occasionally scan some of his posts. There's only so much facepalming one can tolerate...

[Pasquale1234]

@LDS Darth Revan - I've often wondered how many demons are demolished during harrowings, and whether typical mages are off slaying demons every night when they sleep.

[TheKomandorShepard]

pasquale as far you have false arguments like non-mages can be possesed in the fade despite we don't have single example of such case... and your examples was caused by mages or when demon
crossed veil i was only pointing what wrong with that and occasionally mocking your ideas when they went into "to dumb to live" territory. so i don't know what problem have with it im rude yep but im saying truth:P

[DKJaigen]

Pasquale mockery is best way to show how ridiculus idea is and well most amusing:P

Revan first if i would want send someone to fade to fight demons (if i want to do that) it would be templars who are specialized in fighting them sure not that they are very effective as we are shown but as far they are most effective force to fight demons in thedas and well when they lose it still won't end as nearly bad if mage become possesed.But better just deal with veil than send someone to fight army of unstopable creatures that can control you...

Then thedas is ****ed in the coming demon invasion

[TheKomandorShepard]

Hey im pessimist here!
Templars screwd in ferelden but in last battle in kirkwall they were dealing with abomnations quite good (and im not their fan) even without hawke support.Still a i said as long main source of problem isn't hiper super demon in the fade (in what i doubt) there is no reason go to the fade.All you need to do is fix veil and caputre person that causes that.

[MisterJB]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

^Oops, didn't mean to do that. Meant to put:
"It's better than sending people who can do absolutely nothing to them in the Fade.

Hmmm? The Fade is a realm of ideas. If someone imagines he has a sword and shield, then he has which can then be used to kill demons.

[Magdalena11]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
Aren't you the one that concluded that Komandor was a troll and that we were all better off ignoring him?

Many others share that distinction. I think it's the best thing to do with many of the posters who jump on this issue. The mage/templar war is going to be fought in DAI. Does it need to be previewed in the forums?

To decide whether it's worth bothering to respond to someone who's arguing with my post I use a few guidelines
1. Was I wrong about the facts I used to support my argument?
2. Is the argument put forward against mine supported by facts or a player's interpretation of them?
3. If the argument is based on interpretation, is it supported by other details in the game or on an isolated codex entry or incident?
4. Does the argument use the words all, none, always, never, etc. to an excessive or inappropriate degree?
5. Is the argument merely the umpteenth rendition of the poster saying "Because I said so and if you don't agree with me you have to be wrong."?

This helps a lot.

[The Baconer]

I'm not even sure if there can be a "line of defense" in the Fade.

[Magdalena11]

MisterJB wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
^Oops, didn't mean to do that. Meant to put:
"It's better than sending people who can do absolutely nothing to them in the Fade.

Hmmm? The Fade is a realm of ideas. If someone imagines he has a sword and shield, the he has which can then be used to kill demons.

Is anyone else's quote link broken or is it just me?

At any rate, the fade is a realm of ideas and beings with the power to shape the fade can make a sword and shield and use them. Spirits and demons have this ability but not mortals. Mages can tap into the power of the fade to power spells and can enter the fade while conscious, given lyrium and assistance.

This is where it gets complicated. None of the examples in-game allowed the creation of items by mortals. The only reference I remember to a mortal creating something in the fade was in Asunder, Cole lost his knife and later was holding it again. Cole wasn't exactly mortal and he didn't consciously create the knife (if I remember right....gotta read that again), it just appeared in his hand when he looked for it there.

I don't know if a non-possessed mortal would be able to conjure up anything.

Mortals are still able to use the weapons they bring into the fade. Mages just have an extra tool.

[MisterJB]

You can't bring weapons into the Fade; your body doesn't travel there, your mind does. The one times people physically entered the Fade lead to the creation of the Darkspawn.
Any mortal, mage or not, is capable of shaping the Fade. The evidence of this is in Asunder's page 224 where Rhys tells Evangeline the only reason she has her sword is because she thinks she does.

[Magdalena11]

MisterJB wrote...
You can't bring weapons into the Fade; your body doesn't travel there, your mind does. The one times people physically entered the Fade lead to the creation of the Darkspawn.
Any mortal, mage or not, is capable of shaping the Fade. The evidence of this is in Asunder's page 224 where Rhys tells Evangeline the only reason she has her sword is because she thinks she does.

Forgive me, I stated my opinion poorly. You are correct about Rhys's comments and Valor in the mage origin says it too. What I should have said that Cole was the only character mentioned who was able to get a weapon once he lost his. If mortals were able to shape the fade, Rhys & co. would have been able to stop the walls collapsing around their heads in the nightmare Denerim.

While a mortal might be able to retain what he or thinks of as his possessions in the fade, I don't think changing them is an option.

In any event, I think the original argument was that anyone would be able to use their combat abilities in the fade and I agree with you. Mages can cast spells and use weapons and non-mages can use melee or ranged weapons as well as their special abilities such as backstab and shield bash. I personally think a combined approach would be better at fighting demons.

[TK514]

This is, coincidentally, why I don't think Mages will be any more important to closing Veil tears than anyone else. We've had two games worth of non-Mage heroes doing just fine against demons, in and out of the Fade. Then there's the entire Ferelden Circle full of Mages who didn't seem to have a whole lot of luck.

The only advantage Mages seem to have is naturally being conscious there while sleeping vs others needing to be sent. Once there, non-Mages wreck the place just as effectively as anyone.

There's also the gameplay consideration that I doubt they'll force us to have a Mage companion with us every time we go to close a tear.

[Hellion Rex]

@TK514, I agree on your last point. In regards to closing the Veil, there are probably several ways to do it, giving players a few options.

[Pasquale1234]

@TK514, yes, they'll do whatever best fits the story they want to tell and that makes sense in terms of gameplay. We've already seen several different ways to send folks into the fade -

To send someone into the Fade to slay the demon possessing Connor required several Circle mages and a lot of lyrium or Isolde's blood. And it had to be a mage that was sent.

The demon in Broken Circle sent the entire party into the Fade, as did Marethari's ritual in DA2.

[Medhia Nox]

@eluvianix: I'm hoping for lyrium spackle.

[Hellion Rex]

@Medhia Nox, I'm still hoping for a dragon ruled thedas *insert evil laugh here*

[dragonflight288]

Veruin wrote....

I always thought mudanes were like tranquil, effectively invisible and undesirable.

I'm not sure if this has been responded to or not since I'm playing catch up on the pages, but I'll respond to it anyway.

This is not true, and it can be proven by talking to the Sloth Demon in the mage origin. He talks about 'dreamers,'not meaning Somniari who can enter the Fade freely, but regular mortals who fall asleep and dream. He talks about how demons and spirits can see the dreams of these mortals, and I think somewhere it's written that they sometimes influence those dreams.

However, the difference between a mage and a mundane is that mages naturally have more power than mundanes, and they have the capacity to enter the Fade aware and conscious, compared to those who simply dream. Their power and their awareness in the Fade itself draws demons to them, making them the much more sought after prize than the mundanes.

The Sloth demons makes it clear that you entering the Fade aware for your Harrowing roused his interest, as well as the demon hunting you, and he was inclined for 'a meal', meaning you, so he can see the mortal world.

If the world suddenly had no mages, or all mages were made tranquil and cut off from the Fade, aside from no more Grey Wardens to fight a blight or mages to combat Qunari technology, it's not unreasonable to think that demons who want to experience the mortal world would turn their attention to the mundanes they had previously ignored in favor of the mages.

[dragonflight288]

I forgot Lady Harimann was a blood mage. Oops.

And yet Sebastian and every member of her family make it quite clear that she wasn't a mage and had no magical capacity. Yet she also clearly had blood magic capabilities when fighting Hawke and Sebastian.

Possible gift from the Desire Demon perhaps?