956 réponses à ce sujet

[EmperorSahlertz]

No, but the discussion is why would anyone ever be stupid enough to think they could prevent nature? Mages are naturally bprn every day. Killing them all solves nothing.
Only someone with a severe lack of understanding of the Fade, demons and magic would ever advocate the extermination of mages.

[dragonflight288]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

You clearly have absolutely no understanding of the Fade, the lore or demons. Kill all the mages, and the demon problem won't go away. Period. And there are plenty of examples to prove it. The denerim alienage had rage demons, caused by the riots and the purge. No mages necessary. Northern Rivain, the veil was sundered in an Exalted March, slaughtering noncombatants so brutally that demons started entering the world. No mages. 

Nor do you need to be a mage to get possessed. Possessed templars are enemies in both annulments in both games. Sophia Dryden was possessed. The Herriman family is quite adamant that Lady Herriman was not a mage, and even Sebastain vouches for that, yet because of a Desire demon, she had borderline blood magic capabilities. 

This is all in the History of Thedas, in the codex entries, scattered throughout the dialogue. Killing the mages won't solve the problems you hope to solve. 

Period. 

What lol where i said that veil can't be weakened non-mages it requires massacre as i said ah screw it read my post above... 

First templars aren't possesed only controled by demon only cases possesed non-mages by demons were when demon was forced by mage or was when demon was already in thedas.Second you can find them in in the dungeons we know that kirkwall was used by tevinter before and can find many trapped demons in kirkwall she probably found that demon there considering how that dungeons looked it isn't suprising. 

And as i staded most hell almost all demons in thedas crossing veil was caused by mages by possesion or just summoned and thats why most demon that we can meet are in thedas.As far only example demon crossing veil because veil was weak (cause by non-mages) was in orphanage compare that to abomnations...


So yes killing mages solve this problem sure there will still be demons that manage to break trough veil but number demons in thedas will extremely decrease without mages weather you like it or not it is in case...

*sigh* You are outright ignoring history in Thedas, the lore, and the very nature of the Fade and demons. If you won't go read the codexes yourself, ignore the codexes we bring up, World of Thedas, gameplay events and so on, then you simply are not worth debating this topic about as you apparently cannot contribute anything that would actually help solve the problems.

I'm sorry, I've tried to be respectful, but on matter concerning mages an templars, consider yourself ignored by me from here on out as you have shown repeatedly that you not only have no understanding on the nature of the Fade and of demons, but you also have no desire to actually learn the lore that is well-established and a matter of fact that contradicts your opinions. 

Emperor is pro-templar, or at least Pro-Circle, and he and I rarely agree on anything mage-related, but he and I both agree that simply killing all the mages won't solve the problem. It's not just pro-mages who think you're clueless.

Again, I want to be respectful, but as you're ignoring the established lore, it makes it hard to debate you honestly. 

This is all I will say on the matter. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

Another one joins the rapidly gorwing group of people who simply refuse to discus anything with Kommander. Welcome.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 31 janvier 2014 - 02:07 .

[KaiserShep]

Prevent potential genocide, with real genocide. What could possibly go wrong?

Modifié par KaiserShep, 31 janvier 2014 - 02:09 .

[dragonflight288]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Another one joins the rapidly gorwing group of people who simply refuse to discus anything with Kommander. Welcome.

Thanks. I guess I'm now part of the club. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

No, but the discussion is why would anyone ever be stupid enough to think they could prevent nature? Mages are naturally bprn every day. Killing them all solves nothing.
Only someone with a severe lack of understanding of the Fade, demons and magic would ever advocate the extermination of mages.

Killing most often used way to thedas for demons solves nothing how?And new born mages are immortal i guess?

dragonflight288 wrote...


*sigh* You are outright
ignoring history in Thedas, the lore, and the very nature of the Fade
and demons. If you won't go read the codexes yourself, ignore the
codexes we bring up, World of Thedas, gameplay events and so on, then
you simply are not worth debating this topic about as you apparently
cannot contribute anything that would actually help solve the problems.

I'm
sorry, I've tried to be respectful, but on matter concerning mages an
templars, consider yourself ignored by me from here on out as you have
shown repeatedly that you not only have no understanding on the nature
of the Fade and of demons, but you also have no desire to actually learn
the lore that is well-established and a matter of fact that contradicts
your opinions. 

Emperor is pro-templar, or at least Pro-Circle,
and he and I rarely agree on anything mage-related, but he and I both
agree that simply killing all the mages won't solve the problem. It's
not just pro-mages who think you're clueless.

Again, I want to be respectful, but as you're ignoring the established lore, it makes it hard to debate you honestly. 

This is all I will say on the matter. 

What about you are rambling dude as far all you are doing "no you don't understand lore and game " what where? "no you don't understand"...
Lets do that gently  
First question
how demons can enter to thedas?
1)possess mages
2)be summoned by mage
3.When veil is weak or torn they can cross veil...

so eliminating mages destroys 2 most common reasons why demons are in thedas it is that true yes and thats not all it prevents also creating abomnations (if we are talking about possesed mage).
So only possibility for demon is third option and how many we saw demons because of weak veil?

KaiserShep wrote...

Prevent potential genocide, with real genocide. What could possibly go wrong?

Rather prevent destruction of the world with genocide of minority... 

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 31 janvier 2014 - 02:23 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

KaiserShep wrote...

Prevent potential genocide, with real genocide. What could possibly go wrong?

I was thinking that too. It's like "The world doesn't have enough bloodshed to sunder the Veil, so I'm sure killings thousands if not millions more will be fine."

[KaiserShep]

Preventing the destruction of the world is a hugely ironic goal when it involves the Sisyphusian task of systematically killing mages and their families forever. I do so love a good vicious cycle myself.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 31 janvier 2014 - 02:30 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

KaiserShep wrote...

Preventing the destruction of the world is a hugely ironic goal when it involves the Sisyphusian task of systematically killing mages and their families forever.

ultimately casualties are much lesser because how many mages we have thousands how many died because single incydent that caused mages and is called blights? How many died because of abomnations or mages causing disasters. Compare and add to that potential destruction of the world when abomnations will go out of control. 

I won...

[KaiserShep]

False assumptions are not a victory make.

[SgtSteel91]

Well it does win him biggest immoral jerk of BSN.

[The Elder King]

@Thekomandorshepard: you do realize that your plan is very unlikely to ever be a choice in a DA game, right?

[TheKomandorShepard]

KaiserShep wrote...

False assumptions are not a victory make.

What false assumptions i doubt that mages are more  than 5 % of population if not less.If you have something to say about disasters caused by mages i can start pointing them.

ultimately majority versus minority... (very dangerous even for themselves minority...)

[TheKomandorShepard]

hhh89 wrote...

@Thekomandorshepard: you do realize that your plan is very unlikely to ever be a choice in a DA game, right?

Sadly i guess they will give support incompetent templars or support destructive mages optionally they will give compromise option so effective as previous options.But still i hope for such option and freedom like in fallout new vegas.

SgtSteel91 wrote...

Well it does win him biggest immoral jerk of BSN.

Your morals won't save world from destruction i prefer survival but i may be fussy

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 31 janvier 2014 - 02:44 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Why do people keep thinking that Abominations somehow threaten the entire world? That is a completely unsubstantiated claim. An Abomination might threaten the local area, or even a nation if it is very powerful, but it won't ever threaten the world. The reason Abominations must be contained is not the international threat they pose, but the national and/or local threat they might pose, and the unspeakable horrors they will inflict on the people in their path.

Thedas existed for thousands of years without the Circle and no discernable regulations of magic. It will continue existance long after the dissolution of the Circle.

[KaiserShep]

You know the plan is off to a good start when it relies on arbitrary percentages. The Thedas Census Bureau will be thrilled.

[Hellion Rex]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Why do people keep thinking that Abominations somehow threaten the entire world? That is a completely unsubstantiated claim. An Abomination might threaten the local area, or even a nation if it is very powerful, but it won't ever threaten the world. The reason Abominations must be contained is not the international threat they pose, but the national and/or local threat they might pose, and the unspeakable horrors they will inflict on the people in their path.

Thedas existed for thousands of years without the Circle and no discernable regulations of magic. It will continue existance long after the dissolution of the Circle.

Greater pride demon abomination...

[TheKomandorShepard]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Why do people keep thinking that Abominations somehow threaten the entire world? That is a completely unsubstantiated claim. An Abomination might threaten the local area, or even a nation if it is very powerful, but it won't ever threaten the world. The reason Abominations must be contained is not the international threat they pose, but the national and/or local threat they might pose, and the unspeakable horrors they will inflict on the people in their path.

Thedas existed for thousands of years without the Circle and no discernable regulations of magic. It will continue existance long after the dissolution of the Circle.

1 abomination will create more hell connor a damn child created small army of undead , uldread managed create plenty abominations.Pride demon wasn't even interested in cassandra that choped blood mages like nothing and golems like silk neither mages did nothing more than annoy him.
So pretty much zombie apocalypse along with unstoppable creatures that spread destruction.
And as well we don't know what was before circle maybe another circle or simple things were different before...
And even with circles

[KaiserShep]

None of those creatures are unstoppable. As for the walking dead, they seem to occur even without the intervention of mages.

[TheKomandorShepard]

KaiserShep wrote...

None of those creatures are unstoppable. As for the walking dead, they seem to occur even without the intervention of mages.

living corpse is created in 2 cases
veil is weak demons ends in thedas and he is possesing dead body.
either demon is summoned by mage or other demon and forced to possess dead body.

Ps no?
so why child managed kill entire castle and village without even trying?

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 31 janvier 2014 - 03:17 .

[thetinyevil]

I think the only Abomination that my cause damage on are large scale would be a dreamer. But Dreamers are rare and they tend to die before the possession can be completed. At least that is what I remember from the game, I can't quiet remember what it said in the codex.

[Iron Fist]

The Veil tearing makes this "solution" pointless.

[EmperorSahlertz]

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Why do people keep thinking that Abominations somehow threaten the entire world? That is a completely unsubstantiated claim. An Abomination might threaten the local area, or even a nation if it is very powerful, but it won't ever threaten the world. The reason Abominations must be contained is not the international threat they pose, but the national and/or local threat they might pose, and the unspeakable horrors they will inflict on the people in their path.

Thedas existed for thousands of years without the Circle and no discernable regulations of magic. It will continue existance long after the dissolution of the Circle.

Greater pride demon abomination...

Which is completely theoretical. Feynriel is potentially the most powerful Abomination to ever walk the face of Thedas, yet Thedas is still standing six years later.

[KaiserShep]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

None of those creatures are unstoppable. As for the walking dead, they seem to occur even without the intervention of mages.

living corpse is created in 2 cases
veil is weak demons ends in thedas and he is possesing dead body.
either demon is summoned by mage or other demon and forced to possess dead body.

Ps no?
so why child managed kill entire castle and village without even trying?

You got me there! I've seen the light. May all the future magisters burn in their cribs.

[TheKomandorShepard]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Why do people keep thinking that Abominations somehow threaten the entire world? That is a completely unsubstantiated claim. An Abomination might threaten the local area, or even a nation if it is very powerful, but it won't ever threaten the world. The reason Abominations must be contained is not the international threat they pose, but the national and/or local threat they might pose, and the unspeakable horrors they will inflict on the people in their path.

Thedas existed for thousands of years without the Circle and no discernable regulations of magic. It will continue existance long after the dissolution of the Circle.

Greater pride demon abomination...

Which is completely theoretical. Feynriel is potentially the most powerful Abomination to ever walk the face of Thedas, yet Thedas is still standing six years later.

Because being dreamer don't make you strong mage?
It only gives you ability to enter fade when you want and fen was very close being tranquil in tower. 
And well avoiding that he was possessed by sloth demon he is known as dream stalker or something like that good luck in the future when it will force kings to fight...

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 31 janvier 2014 - 03:28 .