956 réponses à ce sujet

[The Baconer]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
I think it applies. Half-cocked simply means "In an inadequate or poorly prepared manner", and I remembver reading that if the hay was not fully cocked, that the pile was prone to falling apart. 

Here are a couple fully cocked piles of hay. See how they are really well bound by the ropes/net. If it wasn't fully cocked, those would be loose and the hay would just fall apart.
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

Hmm, it still doesn't seem specific enough to be the actual origin of the phrase. I looked up the structures myself and I found this. You can see they aren't half as big as the ones in your picture, but all things considered they seem like some pretty nice ****s.

Modifié par The Baconer, 01 février 2014 - 06:15 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The Baconer wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
I think it applies. Half-cocked simply means "In an inadequate or poorly prepared manner", and I remembver reading that if the hay was not fully cocked, that the pile was prone to falling apart. 

Here are a couple fully cocked piles of hay. See how they are really well bound by the ropes/net. If it wasn't fully cocked, those would be loose and the hay would just fall apart.
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

Hmm, it still doesn't seem specific enough to be the actual origin of the phrase. I looked up the structures myself and I found this. You can see they aren't half as big as the ones in your picture, but all things considered they seem like some pretty nice ****s.

I just used the first picture I found, but yours works just as well since it shows it is bound by ropes and possibly a net.

Well, I was just showing that such a phrase did exist in medieval times. But yes, the invention of firearms is what really made that saying popular since everybody knew what a gun was, while in the old days not everyone knew what the bundles of hay were called.

[Lotion Soronarr]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

No, but the discussion is why would anyone ever be stupid enough to think they could prevent nature? Mages are naturally bprn every day. Killing them all solves nothing.
Only someone with a severe lack of understanding of the Fade, demons and magic would ever advocate the extermination of mages.

Was that ever the main point?
I dont' recall anyone saying "killing all mages will prevent mages from beign born".

Wasn't the argument "killing all mages reduces the demon threat to a minimum?"

[The Baconer]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Was that ever the main point?
I dont' recall anyone saying "killing all mages will prevent mages from beign born".

Wasn't the argument "killing all mages reduces the demon threat to a minimum?"

By what? Giving the demons a steady stream of corpses that can't resist possession?

[Veruin]

The Baconer wrote...

By what? Giving the demons a steady stream of corpses that can't resist possession?

The demons need to get into the real world to possess those corpses in the first place.  

[The Baconer]

Veruin wrote...

The demons need to get into the real world to possess those corpses in the first place.  

In the Circles? We know that the veil was thin at Kirkwall, (now) Fereldan, and it was thin at the White Spire before the clash between the mages and templars, which weakened it futher. Not to the mages who will allow themselves to be possessed once they're at death's doorstep.

[dragonflight288]

Veruin wrote...

The Baconer wrote...

By what? Giving the demons a steady stream of corpses that can't resist possession?

The demons need to get into the real world to possess those corpses in the first place.  

 Something like this?

[Veruin]

dragonflight288 wrote...
 Something like this?

I thought the whole point of these threads were ignoring the veil tear/assuming it's been fixed.  Because obviously that changes a lot of things.

[dragonflight288]

Veruin wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...
 Something like this?

I thought the whole point of these threads were ignoring the veil tear/assuming it's been fixed.  Because obviously that changes a lot of things.

Sure, but veil tears still happen without mage assistance in many cases. The orphanage in Denerim was a result of the violence of the purge, as one example. 

Even if this is fixed, killing all the mages still won't solve the problem. Demons will still come through. It'll be harder, but it still will happen. 

Heck, it might even be easier given the nature of violence in genocides. 

[Lotion Soronarr]

It will still happen occasionally, but it would be a thousand times rarer.

[The Baconer]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

It will still happen occasionally, but it would be a thousand times rarer.

Would it? Do you think that there wouldn't be a lot of mages who, upon realizing the inevitable fate that awaits them, would do as much damage possible to the world that rejected them? Wouldn't you?

[TheKomandorShepard]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Sure, but veil tears still happen without mage assistance in many cases. The orphanage in Denerim was a result of the violence of the purge, as one example. 

Even if this is fixed, killing all the mages still won't solve the problem. Demons will still come through. It'll be harder, but it still will happen. 

Heck, it might even be easier given the nature of violence in genocides. 

Not rly that wasn't veil tear it was weakened veil what let 1 demon escape... (torned veil is something like in blackmarsches)
And as i said and lotion said it will be much much rarer without mages ignoring that we will remove 2 other ways for demon to get to thedas and thats are most used ways by demons.  

Second it is not that we move mages to one place and than we will shoot them... simple hunting them and killing i doubt they will stay in one place perhaps one bigger group.

thedas isn't rainbow land murders , genocides or wars are nothing alien and well mages are still minority...  

Most countries burn body after death what prevents demonic possession  

And yes you can cry that i don't know lore etc without providing arguments

And still pretty much there will be no more abomnations without mages and abomnations are most dangerous...

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 02 février 2014 - 12:27 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

And yes you can cry that i don't know lore etc without providing arguments

He provided examples. It's just that you're in the habit of not reading anything that contradicts your position and then trying to pretend in subsequent posts that it never existed.

Edit: Actually, rereading your post it becomes clear you did read the counterarguments (notwithstanding that you are in that habit). So really I don't know what this part of your post is about.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 02 février 2014 - 12:49 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

And yes you can cry that i don't know lore etc without providing arguments

He provided examples. It's just that you're in the habit of not reading anything that contradicts your position and then trying to pretend in subsequent posts that it never existed.

Edit: Actually, rereading your post it becomes clear you did read the counterarguments (notwithstanding that you are in that habit). So really I don't know what this part of your post is about.

Not rly i responded on his "examples" and then he started yell that i don't understand lore 
As far renember we were talking about killing mages to solve problems with demons in what he started telling me that won't solve nothing and provided poor examples (like sophia who was creation of avernus by torning veil and summoning demons) then i told him i know that demons still for time to time will appear in thedas but killing mages will remove most used ways to enter to thedas but it will simple rare now and not so dangerous as abomnation.  Next thing was him yelling at me that i don't know lore not even try point where i was wrong or most probably where he thought i was wrong...

[dragonflight288]

And you and Lotion both have not answered the meat of my question, as I acknowledged that it would happen less often, but you both ignored the direct question.

Kommander, I'll ask again.

If you killed all the mages, and you had a veil tear, without a mage, how would you mend it?

EDIT: I just thought of something, so I'll include a hypothetical scenario. 

Say an elven alienage has a purge, or two countries have a massive war and the veil sunders like it does in Northern Rivain, and you have demons come through. One of them is a Pride Demon. We know from Uldred in Broken Circle that a pride demon can summon other demons directly from the Fade, and work on possessing others, even those who are not willing, although Uldred used weeks of torture in order to do that on his fellow mages, but it could still be done. 

So you now have a Pride Demon summoning other demons as a result of this tear because of the violence, but you've killed all the mages. What do you do to solve the problem and the torn veil? 

Modifié par dragonflight288, 02 février 2014 - 04:19 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

dragonflight288 wrote...

And you and Lotion both have not answered the meat of my question, as I acknowledged that it would happen less often, but you both ignored the direct question.

Kommander, I'll ask again.

If you killed all the mages, and you had a veil tear, without a mage, how would you mend it?

There is no real way to fix veil as far only who did it was avernus , sophia (demon) and the warden (who destroyed it with weapon...).If someone have knowledge about fixing veil it would be tevinter mages if circle mages would do that they would fix kirkwall veil hell it would be first thing they would do... as well settlement in blackmarshes wouldn't be big problem. As far only tears in veil we saw (avernus keep , blackmarshes) were caused by magic and mages and 1 case weakened veil caused by non-mages.

Even wiki page says smiliar

"Demons
seize every opportunity, every tear in the Veil, to enter our world.
Once the Veil is torn, it is extremely difficult to mend, some say
impossible.
--From The Lectures of First Enchanter Wenselus"


Now you are asking question to be honest i answered that many times (however, I can not recall that you asked me about it) first i said many times that i will spare few mages for preparing joining they can also investigate the veil.And as i said for now i won't even bother with tevinter as that would cost too much and they are fighting with qunari so for they can kill each other.But i doubt that many magisters are patriots they simply fish for money or power so i could hire group of them to deal with veil and give them money and after tell them get lost from my territory.      

dragonflight288 wrote...


EDIT: I just thought of something, so I'll include a hypothetical scenario. 

Say
an elven alienage has a purge, or two countries have a massive war and
the veil sunders like it does in Northern Rivain, and you have demons
come through. One of them is a Pride Demon. We know from Uldred in
Broken Circle that a pride demon can summon other demons directly from
the Fade, and work on possessing others, even those who are not willing,
although Uldred used weeks of torture in order to do that on his fellow
mages, but it could still be done. 

So you now have a Pride
Demon summoning other demons as a result of this tear because of the
violence, but you've killed all the mages. What do you do to solve the
problem and the torn veil? 

And how many such scenarios we had in history i would say something about zero.

As far only abomnation (possesed mage) could summon other demons behind veil if pride demon will posses mage corpse we have aracane horror if non-mage we have revenant.So normal person would be just i guess stronger person without magic thats 1 reason why demons are fishing for mages power... So still we have weaker demon to deal with not demon in full power.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 02 février 2014 - 04:39 .

[dragonflight288]

There is no real way to fix veil as far only who did it was avernus , sophia (demon) and the warden (who destroyed it with weapon...).If someone have knowledge about fixing veil it would be tevinter mages if circle mages would do that they would fix kirkwall veil hell it would be first thing they would do... as well settlement in blackmarshes wouldn't be big problem. As far only tears in veil we saw (avernus keep , blackmarshes) were caused by magic and mages and 1 case weakened veil caused by non-mages.

Even wiki page says smiliar

"Demons
seize every opportunity, every tear in the Veil, to enter our world.
Once the Veil is torn, it is extremely difficult to mend, some say
impossible.
--From The Lectures of First Enchanter Wenselus"


Now you are asking question to be honest i answered that many times (however, I can not recall that you asked me about it) first i said many times that i will spare few mages for preparing joining they can also investigate the veil.And as i said for now i won't even bother with tevinter as that would cost too much and they are fighting with qunari so for they can kill each other.But i doubt that many magisters are patriots they simply fish for money or power so i could hire group of them to deal with veil and give them money and after tell them get lost from my territory.

So in the end, you have no real solution for when it will happen. It won't be that often, but you have no solution for when it will happen. You'll need mages.

Hence, your solution of killing all the mages as a safety measure doesn't actually solve the problem.

[TheKomandorShepard]

dragonflight288 wrote...

So in the end, you have no real solution for when it will happen. It won't be that often, but you have no solution for when it will happen. You'll need mages.

Hence, your solution of killing all the mages as a safety measure doesn't actually solve the problem.

Not that if i will spare mages that i will have any real solution only buch of guys who often go into rampages and deliver and are problem that i try prevent don't let demons cross veil.

So i keep safe my territory minimizing loss and without mages it will take a very long time to torn veil and without constant problems with mages i will be able to search solution to fix veil or just ask one of tevinter mages for help.Best scenario i don't even mention that societies finally start develop technologically to satisfy their needs which in future let us fight with demons or qunari in much better ground...

[dragonflight288]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

So in the end, you have no real solution for when it will happen. It won't be that often, but you have no solution for when it will happen. You'll need mages.

Hence, your solution of killing all the mages as a safety measure doesn't actually solve the problem.

Not that if i will spare mages that i will have any real solution only buch of guys who often go into rampages and deliver and are problem that i try prevent don't let demons cross veil.

So i keep safe my territory minimizing loss and without mages it will take a very long time to torn veil and without constant problems with mages i will be able to search solution to fix veil or just ask one of tevinter mages for help.Best scenario i don't even mention that societies finally start develop technologically to satisfy their needs which in future let us fight with demons or qunari in much better ground...

So your plan is to put a lot of soldiers in front of these veil tears and ask Tevinter for aid and hope they say yes?

[TheKomandorShepard]

dragonflight288 wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

So in the end, you have no real solution for when it will happen. It won't be that often, but you have no solution for when it will happen. You'll need mages.

Hence, your solution of killing all the mages as a safety measure doesn't actually solve the problem.

Not that if i will spare mages that i will have any real solution only buch of guys who often go into rampages and deliver and are problem that i try prevent don't let demons cross veil.

So i keep safe my territory minimizing loss and without mages it will take a very long time to torn veil and without constant problems with mages i will be able to search solution to fix veil or just ask one of tevinter mages for help.Best scenario i don't even mention that societies finally start develop technologically to satisfy their needs which in future let us fight with demons or qunari in much better ground...

So your plan is to put a lot of soldiers in front of these veil tears and ask Tevinter for aid and hope they say yes?

Heh before veil will be destroyed which it will take very long time without mages there will be signs (and as far bigest veil tears were caused by mages and not that many demons escaped from that.And as i said i will spare few mages to pepare joining but will be extremely well controled.Anyway if we don't find how mend veil in dai simple game over anyway if i find i will use it in future (hell we will see if mages will be required) if not we have few "grey warden" mages to do that and we can always hire tevinter magisters (as i said i doubt that they are all patriots they rather work on their well-being not country).

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 I like how Kommandor wants to kill all the mages except the actually immoral ones in the Tevinter Imperium. 

[SgtSteel91]

He's basically calling for the Qunari solution to Mages by having a few of them closely guarded for a few specific tasks and killing the rest.

Why not just put them in chains and sew their mouths shut while you're at it?

[TheKomandorShepard]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

 I like how Kommandor wants to kill all the mages except the actually immoral ones in the Tevinter Imperium. 

I don't care what ants do on my neighbor property i care about my property as long my garden is safe...

I don't have problem with mages morality i have problem because they are extremely devastating for everything around...

SgtSteel91 wrote...

He's basically calling for the Qunari
solution to Mages by having a few of them closely guarded for a few
specific tasks and killing the rest.

Why not just put them in chains and sew their mouths shut while you're at it?

Not rly i mean they even don't probably kill mages just keep them with sewed mouth and in chains from what i saw they do that because they are zeal anyway i don't to be honest if sewing their mouth was effective i wouldn't have problem with that...everything for profit

[KaiserShep]

Metaphors always work best when people are reduced to insects.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

KaiserShep wrote...

Metaphors always work best when people are reduced to insects.

"When you notice an insect on the ground, do you stop to consider it a fool? The life of an insect is so beneath you that it would be a waste of time to even consider judging it. That would be an accurate summation on my feelings towards you humans." - Father from Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood

One of the best villain lines ever.

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 02 février 2014 - 08:06 .