956 réponses à ce sujet

[Last seeker]

Depending on the situation the Tranquility could be a cruelest treatment or a method to save the mage from the demon but as far as the story of dragon age progressed, right now it is safe to assume that it is potentially counted among the things that the mage fear the most.

The tranquility was meant to serve as the last resort that prevent or save the mage who is too weak to resist and vulnerable to the possession by the demon. It is used only when there are only 2 choice left : Fall to the demon possession or Live as an emotionless person.

But here is the problem : In kirkwall many templars did not operate and perform their duty like the chantry led people to believe.

Alrik's idea about 'Mass Tranquility Solution' isn't based on mercy but the mean to put all the mage into the subject that couldn't fight back no matter how hard he push them around, a loyal sexslave and a punchbag that obey his command.

I believe it is time to deliver everyone's final verdict about Arlik's Tranquility Solution since it was meant to be the main goal in this thread.

As for myself : The tranquility solution ploy of Arlik is unapprovable!

[Magdalena11]

I think Alrik really thought he was on to something and really thought what he was doing was for the best. Like a good soldier, he went up the chain of command to Meredith, who was still in possession of her senses and rejected him. He went to her superior, the divine, and was rejected as well. He was convinced only he knew what the problem really was and how to solve it so he implemented his ideas himself. He then discovered the personal benefits his new position allowed and it corrupted him.

His idea couldn't have worked because the mages most in danger of possession were already in the circle being regulated. The ones he needed to go after were the ones he wouldn't have been able to find so his idea was doomed.

Would rounding up every mage in existence and killing or tranquilizing them help in DAI? Possibly, but it depends on whether you're out to save the world or hasten its demise. I personally think both mages and templars are going to have to be persuaded to set aside their differences and work together for redemption. For destruction, either or both groups should be encouraged to wipe the other out.

[Asdrubael Vect]

I was thinking that Templars supported are not so midless to even think about this bull**** what is the same as kill or inprison all mages)))

this the most stupid idea ever and,

1)the most unrelistic
2)the most expensive
3)the most uneffective

when remaining Templars try do this stuff they all would be hunted and wiped in the next few months-years)))

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 06 janvier 2014 - 06:18 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

Dark Korsar wrote...

I was thinking that Templars supported are not so midless to even think about this bull**** what is the same as kill or inprison all mages)))

this the most stupid idea ever and,

1)the most unrelistic
2)the most expensive
3)the most uneffective

when remaining Templars try do this stuff they all would be hunted and wiped in the next few months-years)))

Wait wait wait i agree that is most expensive but the hell how eliminating threat entirely isn't effective.

And who would kiill them more than half population at best wouldn't care at worst would rip mages apart themelves... ignoring that most see templars as heroes...

[Asdrubael Vect]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Wait wait wait i agree that is most expensive but the hell how eliminating threat entirely isn't effective.

And who would kiill them more than half population at best wouldn't care at worst would rip mages apart themelves... ignoring that most see templars as heroes...

1)by doing such stuff with so many mages veil will tear so all this tranquility wil be broken, no talking about contacts with free mages and deamons who will easily broke this tranquility, thanks for Shale who discovered to everyone how its cured)))

and still most mages will always be free

mages will allways born and with veil problems only more and more mages will born

2)if you forget Templars are very small in numbers there is no more than just ~15 thousands in WHOLE Thedas and they are separated and many of them died...i am not talking about official disbaned from Chantry and lost of their Lyrium supply what makes most of them dead in few months

and i do not know about what "most see Templars as heroes" as i know many kingdoms and nations hate Orlais with Orlais Chantry and especially their Templars

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 06 janvier 2014 - 06:48 .

[Lulupab]

If you play as a mage just once your opinion on mages will change at least slightly. When your own character begs for mercy you will see how that feels.

This is a mage Hawke telling Anders to kill Karl because Hawke rather to die than be a tranquil. (Just look at Hawke's face)

Modifié par Rassler, 06 janvier 2014 - 06:51 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

Dark Korsar wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Wait wait wait i agree that is most expensive but the hell how eliminating threat entirely isn't effective.

And who would kiill them more than half population at best wouldn't care at worst would rip mages apart themelves... ignoring that most see templars as heroes...

1)by doing such stuff with so many mages veil will tear so all this tranquility wil be broken, no talking about contacts with free mages and deamons who will easily broke this tranquility, thanks for Shale who discovered to everyone how its cured)))

and still most mages will always be free

mages will allways born and with veil problems only more and more mages will born

2)if you forget Templars are very small in numbers there is no more than just ~15 thousands in WHOLE Thedas and they are separated and many of them died...i am not talking about official disbaned from Chantry and lost of their Lyrium supply what makes most of them dead in few months

and i do not know about what "most see Templars as heroes" as i know many kingdoms and nations hate Orlais with Orlais Chantry and especially their Templars

Not at all veil can be torn by slaughter but even the largest and longest didn't managed torn veil to that moment at wrost weaken it.Other way to much faster torn veil is using magic without mages well guess... 
How most mages will be always free even with current system most mages were in circle and system wasn't very effective.

Well i don't see link between both well templar may die but if they tried remove mages that won't touch rest of the world.Always someone can create new anti-magical faction and do that.

Rassler wrote...

If you play as a mage just once your
opinion on mages will change at least slightly. When your own character
begs for mercy you will see how that feels.

This is a mage Hawke telling Anders to kill Karl because Hawke rather to die than be a tranquil. (Just look at Hawke's face)

I play a mage more than other classes and what is point hell i will play mage and still want kill mages... 

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 06 janvier 2014 - 07:04 .

[Last seeker]

Rassler wrote...

If you play as a mage just once your opinion on mages will change at least slightly. When your own character begs for mercy you will see how that feels.

This is a mage Hawke telling Anders to kill Karl because Hawke rather to die than be a tranquil. (Just look at Hawke's face)

You're meant to say that being made tranquiled is worse than dead, am I correct?

Modifié par Last seeker, 06 janvier 2014 - 07:17 .

[Veruin]

Rassler wrote...

If you play as a mage just once your opinion on mages will change at least slightly. When your own character begs for mercy you will see how that feels.

This is a mage Hawke telling Anders to kill Karl because Hawke rather to die than be a tranquil. (Just look at Hawke's face)

I'm calling bullsh- since I played a mage in Da2 and my opinion still hasn't changed.

What about Hawke's face?  He's looking at Anders with a blank expression.  Almost smug.

Modifié par Veruin, 06 janvier 2014 - 07:17 .

[Jaulen]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Oh come on. Don't be like that.

The templars are only doing their duty.

Mages, when given freedom, have shown that they can't operate properly. Kirkwall and the Circle tower are examples of that. Mages, when not under surveillance, become headless chickens and are more dangerous then than any blood mage.

"With great power comes great responsibility and you need me watching over you." ~ Uncle Sam to Spiderman

Besides this thread isn't about advocating the tranquil solution but merely discussing it and its consequences.

haven't read through the rest of the thread....

But pray tell....I need some back-up for this statement:
"Mages, when given freedom, have shown that they can't operate properly. Kirkwall and the Circle tower are examples of that. Mages, when not under surveillance, become headless chickens and are more dangerous then than any blood mage."

Kirkwall is the WORST example of 'when given freedom' and 'when not under surveillance'

Kirkwall is kind of the opposite of the argument you are trying to make.


Mages we know of that had freedom and didn't go all psyco mwahaha kill-kill abomination:
Wynne, Father Hawke, Warden and Hawke (if a mage), Bethany, Jowan (if you spare him)

Modifié par Jaulen, 06 janvier 2014 - 07:31 .

[Hellion Rex]

Tranquility is worse than death, end of story. At the moment though, it's all we've got. But the second we can find a better alternative, I am all for chucking Tranquility out the window.

[Lulupab]

Then you didn't "play" as a mage. If in the game Templars attack you or try to abuse you or turn you into a tranquil, you'd kill them without a single thought yet you are willing to kill all other mages for doing exactly what you are doing its a pure hypocrite act. You preferred awesome powers over auto attack spam warriors and rouges, you didn't play as a mage. Notice that I'm talking about things like tranquil solution and similar things. You can agree with circle system when playing a mage but not with tranquility.

Last seeker wrote...

You're meant to say that being made tranquiled is worse than dead, am I correct?

Hawke thinks so, so does Karl before he loses his mind again.

[Veruin]

Rassler wrote...

Then you didn't "play" as a mage.
You can agree with circle system when playing a mage but not with tranquility.

Yes, because we don't see your viewpoint, we didn't properly play as a mage.  What a shocker.

Depending how you see it....yes.  Yes you can.

[Hellion Rex]

Rassler wrote...

Then you didn't "play" as a mage.

Excuse me, but who in the hell are you to decide what "playing" as a mage is like?

[Lulupab]

Veruin wrote...

Rassler wrote...

Then you didn't "play" as a mage.
You can agree with circle system when playing a mage but not with tranquility.

Yes, because we don't see your viewpoint, we didn't properly play as a mage.  What a shocker.

Depending how you see it....yes.  Yes you can.

A real life example should clarify this.

Its like being a mage and in the same time forcing all mages to become a tranquil while you use magic in public areas.

Its like being a gay person and in the same time forcing all other gay people to change orientation to straight while you are have gay sex in public areas.

Maybe such person can exist but he would be a hypocrite and twisted person who mostly likely doesn't have a functional mind. Note that this is not towards you but the gay person mentioned in example.

[Hellion Rex]

Rassler wrote...

Veruin wrote...

Rassler wrote...

Then you didn't "play" as a mage.
You can agree with circle system when playing a mage but not with tranquility.

Yes, because we don't see your viewpoint, we didn't properly play as a mage.  What a shocker.

Depending how you see it....yes.  Yes you can.

A real life example should clarify this.

Its like being a mage and in the same time forcing all mages to become a tranquil while you use magic in public areas.

Its like being a gay person and in the same time forcing all other gay people to change orientation to straight while you are have gay sex in public areas.

Maybe such person can exist but he would be a hypocrite and twisted person who mostly likely doesn't have a functional mind. Note that this is not towards you but the gay person mentioned in example.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Ok, that example is a tad over the top man.

And in regards to Tranquility, do you have a better way? Short of killing every single mage, do you have a better way to deny them their power?

Modifié par eluvianix, 06 janvier 2014 - 07:58 .

[Lulupab]

eluvianix wrote...

Rassler wrote...

Then you didn't "play" as a mage.

Excuse me, but who in the hell are you to decide what "playing" as a mage is like?

Relax as it was just my opinion. And I used the quote marks for a reason. I meant you did not felt what being a mage is like. You simply liked a mage cause they are much less boring than auto attack spam warriors and rouges. So gameplay is a factor here nothing else.

[Veruin]

Rassler wrote...
What the f-

...What exactly does one's sexual orientation have to do with losing your emotions?  These are some really terrible examples.   It's not even hypocritcal unless you oppose it then do it anyway.   Unless you mean the mere act of possessing magic instantly means you're against tranquility because it can happen to you. Which is still in it self, a stupid reason.

Lobotomy is probably the closest thing we have to tranqulity.

eluvianix wrote...
And in regards to Tranquility, do you have a better way? Short of killing every single mage, do you have a better way to deny them their power?

Unless we get more Sandals, don't forget enchantments.  For ANY of the new circles, I have no doubt those would be a large way they fund themselves.

Modifié par Veruin, 06 janvier 2014 - 08:02 .

[Hellion Rex]

Veruin wrote...

Rassler wrote...
What the f-

...What exactly does one's sexual orientation have to do with losing your emotions?  These are some really terrible examples.   It's not even hypocritcal unless you oppose it then do it anyway.  Lobotomy is probably the closest thing we have to tranqulity.

eluvianix wrote...
And in regards to Tranquility, do you have a better way? Short of killing every single mage, do you have a better way to deny them their power?

Unless we get more Sandals, don't forget enchantments.  For ANY of the new circles, I have no doubt those would be a large way they fund themselves.

I think Sandal's abilities are what the dwarves lost when they became deafened to the Fade. Which may somehow start reversing itself with the Veil being shredded.

[Lulupab]

Veruin wrote...
...What exactly does one's sexual orientation have to do with losing your emotions?  These are some really terrible examples.   It's not even hypocritcal unless you oppose it then do it anyway.  Lobotomy is probably the closest thing we have to tranqulity.

Details are irrelevant when an example is made between a game and real life. The point of it was a different person whatever the difference might be, is forcing all those who are different in the same as him to change and most imporantly by force.

eluvianix wrote...
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Ok, that example is a tad over the top man. 

And in regards to Tranquility, do you have a better way? Short of killing every single mage, do you have a better way to deny them their power?

That doesn't make the example any less true. I elaborated more above.

The question is, why are we defying a mage's power? For wanting same rights as any man or for wanting to rule over the world

[Grieving Natashina]

Veruin wrote...

Rassler wrote...

If you play as a mage just once your opinion on mages will change at least slightly. When your own character begs for mercy you will see how that feels.

This is a mage Hawke telling Anders to kill Karl because Hawke rather to die than be a tranquil. (Just look at Hawke's face)

I'm calling bullsh- since I played a mage in Da2 and my opinion still hasn't changed.

What about Hawke's face?  He's looking at Anders with a blank expression.  Almost smug.

You've never played as a Fem Hawke in that scene then.  She looks quite afraid and extremely sad.  Her VA nailed the scene as well.  As a player, I felt for her in that moment.

Right, the Tranquil Solution.  Ick.

I'll just leave this here.  Enjoy, I'm out.

http://en.wikipedia..../Final_Solution

Modifié par Starsyn, 06 janvier 2014 - 08:07 .

[Veruin]

Rassler wrote...

Details are irrelevant when an example is made between a game and real life. The point of it was a different person whatever the difference might be, is forcing all those who are different in the same as him to change and most imporantly by force.

The question is, why are we defying a mage's power? For wanting same rights as any man or for wanting to rule over the world

So you are unable to differentiate the difference between a person who at worst kisses their S/S partner in public....with a person who is a shining beacon to malevolent entities as well as having abilties that can wipe out whole villages.   Ok then.  Can't say I'm surpised.

.....I just cannot fathom how naive you are.

Starsyn wrote...

http://en.wikipedia..../Final_Solution

Yay Godwin's law.

Let's get one thing clear.  Mages are not a race, nor are they a religion.

I must also be an emotionless **** since fem hawke is all I can play.  (Hate both of their voices, but femhawke is more tolerable.)

Modifié par Veruin, 06 janvier 2014 - 08:12 .

[Last seeker]

Rassler wrote...

Then you didn't "play" as a mage. If in the game Templars attack you or try to abuse you or turn you into a tranquil, you'd kill them without a single thought yet you are willing to kill all other mages for doing exactly what you are doing its a pure hypocrite act. You preferred awesome powers over auto attack spam warriors and rouges, you didn't play as a mage. Notice that I'm talking about things like tranquil solution and similar things. You can agree with circle system when playing a mage but not with tranquility.

Last seeker wrote...

You're meant to say that being made tranquiled is worse than dead, am I correct?

Hawke thinks so, so does Karl before he loses his mind again.

In my opinion, I think it depend on the situation. As for Karl, he was Tranquiled agianst his will by Arlik's order (Usually it needed a perrmisstion from someone like a Knight Commander and a Grand Cleric to tranquil someone but Arlik has decide to secretly forced in on Karl) that is why he felt so bitter, and thought death is the only way for him to be free from a life of puppet that only live to do what the templars told him to do.

[Veruin]

Last seeker wrote..
In my opinion, I think it depend on the situation. As for Karl, he was Tranquiled agianst his will by Arlik's order (Usually it needed a perrmisstion from someone like a Knight Commander and a Grand Cleric to tranquil someone but Arlik has decide to secretly forced in on Karl) that is why he felt so bitter, and thought death is the only way for him to be free from a life of puppet that only live to do what the templars told him to do.

I think he wanted death because he lived in Kirkwall.

[Grieving Natashina]

@Var

I usually don't Godwin, but the Tranquil Solution is based on that. As far as mages being a race, I'll just disagree there. I'll agree about religion though.

Here's why I feel mages are their own race:

1) They have their own society, complete with different fraternities within their ranks.
2) Which goes back for at least 1000 years
3) Their own form of dress and culture even within the Circles
4) They are segregated from society only due to an accident of birth
5) Some Templars are willing to do horrible things to wipe them out.

So that's why I disagree that mages aren't a race. They've become their own, just as every Jewish person is not of Jewish decent. However, even among the Gentiles that converted, they are still called the Jewish race.

Edit: I'm not going to claim that I'm speaking the Gospel truth.  That's just how I see it.  Only my opinion; just trying to debate, not fight.

Modifié par Starsyn, 06 janvier 2014 - 08:17 .