956 réponses à ce sujet

[Laughing_Man]

Willowhugger wrote...

At the age of 6 to 12 which their still learning the basics to magic, still no babies

That seems an awfully fine line to draw.

Yeah, I mean, killing babies is clearly wrong, but 6-12 year olds? No biggie.
Edit: Besides, circle contain mage babies as well. AKA Wynne's son.

Modifié par TheRedVipress, 23 janvier 2014 - 06:49 .

[AresKeith]

Willowhugger wrote...

However, once the Harrowing is passed, they should let those mages go do whatever. If there's going to be a sentence, I can't think of any reason practical or moral to make it a life sentence.

Just because they passed the Harrowing doesn't mean they aren't in constant danger of getting possessed or being a threat to people

[Willowhugger]

In Cullen's defense, Kirkwall is a cesspool of Blood Magic and Maelificar. I'm pretty sure Orsino is at the root of it too. The Templars were hardasses there but the Mages weren't helping and the innocent were caught in the struggle.

He doesn't have to be sunshine and roses in a war zone.

Even if his "non-reaction" to the TS shows what a fanatic he is.

But yeah, some of the rules were just plain bizarre like "no sex" at the Kirkwall Circle. Talk about rules designed just to make people angry.

Modifié par Willowhugger, 23 janvier 2014 - 06:49 .

[Willowhugger]

Just because they passed the Harrowing doesn't mean they aren't in constant danger of getting possessed or being a threat to people

Isn't the whole point of the Harrowing to show a mage knows it's a stupid idea not to let a spirit in? That's pretty much what they're for.

The irony is I'm pretty sure no mages would become an Abomination if properly educated.

Morrigan, of all people, is pretty damn evil but she knows how dumb it is to turn yourself into a meat-puppet.

[ianvillan]

Willowhugger wrote...

In Cullen's defense, Kirkwall is a cesspool of Blood Magic and Maelificar. I'm pretty sure Orsino is at the root of it too. The Templars were hardasses there but the Mages weren't helping and the innocent were caught in the struggle.

He doesn't have to be sunshine and roses in a war zone.

Even if his "non-reaction" to the TS shows what a fanatic he is.

But yeah, some of the rules were just plain bizarre like "no sex" at the Kirkwall Circle. Talk about rules designed just to make people angry.

Its his non reaction to the many abuses that happen in the circle.

His supporters say he is the model of what a Templar should be, if that is the case then Templars in all the circles are ignoring or supporting abuses against mages.

[AresKeith]

TheRedVipress wrote...

Willowhugger wrote...

At the age of 6 to 12 which their still learning the basics to magic, still no babies

That seems an awfully fine line to draw.

Yeah, I mean, killing babies is clearly wrong, but 6-12 year olds? No biggie.

Who said I agreed with it, you and Willow were talking how they had babies in the circle

Edit: Besides, circle contain mage babies as well. AKA Wynne's son.

Ummm no, babies are sent to the Chantry to be raised 

[Willowhugger]

Its his non reaction to the many abuses that happen in the circle.

His supporters say he is the model of what a Templar should be, if that is the case then Templars in all the circles are ignoring or supporting abuses against mages.

I think Cullen is a case of a guy who probably came to Kirkwall because he was way too hardass for every other Templar Circle after the events of DA:O.

Then he found Meredith was too crazy for him and yo-yoed back.

I'm a Sir Thrask supporter.

[AresKeith]

Willowhugger wrote...
Isn't the whole point of the Harrowing to show a mage knows it's a stupid idea not to let a spirit in? That's pretty much what they're for.

Harrowing is to see if the mages are capable to resisting demons and a test to become a full member of the Circle, there's still a chance that they can be possessed

The irony is I'm pretty sure no mages would become an Abomination if properly educated.

That's false and you know it

[Willowhugger]

How about "almost no mage" because it's a blindingly stupid thing to agree too.

[Hellion Rex]

Willowhugger wrote...

The irony is I'm pretty sure no mages would become an Abomination if properly educated.

That's not even remotely true. Mages turn to abominations either from a weak will or because they want more power, or if they willingly choose to do so (Anders). It's not a matter of education in the least.

[otis0310]

Since I am against opression of all types, I say destroy the chantry.

They just remind me to much of the catholic church during the dark ages.

Suppressing magic = Supressing science.
Exalted March on the Dales = Holy Crusades against the Promised Land

I actually like the progress humanity made in the last 300 years and do not want to live in a medieval village with open sewers thinking my diseases come from cats (instruments of the devil that they are) rather than poor hygiene. It disturbs me greatly to just think how the church behaved back then, and seeing it in computer games does not make me happy either.

The catholic church losing its power brought an end to the dark ages of Earth. I say the chantry losing its power can only be good too.

Note: I do not wish to make this a religious fight, please remember I am not slamming christianity or its tenents, only the actions taken in its name almost 500 years ago.

[AresKeith]

Willowhugger wrote...

How about "almost no mage" because it's a blindingly stupid thing to agree too.

The mages who choose to do it or too weak-willed disagrees

[Willowhugger]

That's not even remotely true. Mages turn to abominations either from a weak will or because they want more power, or if they willingly choose to do so (Anders). It's not a matter of education in the least.

Yeah, but you have to agree to do it. You have to wonder what moron agrees to become a demon's meat puppet and why they'd do it.

I mean, it makes sense in DA2 if the mages are suicide bombing the Templars.

And the Baroness becomes a Pride Demon versus gets possessed.

I can't imagine what happened with Uldred.

[Veruin]

Willowhugger wrote...

The irony is I'm pretty sure no mages would become an Abomination if properly educated.

Demons are not some "test" you only have to study and take once to fight them off.

Willowhugger wrote...

Yeah, but you have to agree to do it. You have to wonder what moron agrees to become a demon's meat puppet and why they'd do it.

There's such a thing called "forced possession".   If you think the only way a demon gets a mortal meatsack is because they agreed, you are rather misinformed.

Modifié par Veruin, 23 janvier 2014 - 07:12 .

[ianvillan]

Willowhugger wrote...

Its his non reaction to the many abuses that happen in the circle.

His supporters say he is the model of what a Templar should be, if that is the case then Templars in all the circles are ignoring or supporting abuses against mages.

I think Cullen is a case of a guy who probably came to Kirkwall because he was way too hardass for every other Templar Circle after the events of DA:O.

Then he found Meredith was too crazy for him and yo-yoed back.

I'm a Sir Thrask supporter.

He supported Meredith till the very last moment of the game.

It could be argued the reason he refused to do the right of annulment was not because he disagreed with it but because he was thinking of the public reaction to it and turning the ordinary citizens way from the Templars and to supporting the mages.

[dragonflight288]

eluvianix wrote...

Willowhugger wrote...

The irony is I'm pretty sure no mages would become an Abomination if properly educated.

That's not even remotely true. Mages turn to abominations either from a weak will or because they want more power, or if they willingly choose to do so (Anders). It's not a matter of education in the least.

Although education is a very large factor. Take Connor. He had no idea what he was doing, that the nice lady was a demon or even how much magic he could do as he could only barely cast minor spells. All he knew was that he wanted to help his father.

A good education (and a lot less politics and back room dealing by his parents and the country's leaders) would've made all the difference. 

[Willowhugger]

Suppressing magic = Supressing science.
Exalted March on the Dales = Holy Crusades against the Promised Land

Just a note from a history buff, it's a trifle more complicated than that. Most of the learning in the Dark Ages was saved from destruction by the Catholic Church. Everything we know about Aristotle and so on came from them preserving the books and recopying them through the centuries until the printing press was invented. Almost every university was sponsored by the church until the Reformation. The famous Galileo Trial was also not about the scientific point he made but the insults he directed at the Pope as well.

As for the Crusades? Yeah, you got me there. That was motivated by religion excusing greed, bloodlust, and racism all aroud.

Modifié par Willowhugger, 23 janvier 2014 - 07:13 .

[Lulupab]

Veruin wrote...

Willowhugger wrote...

The irony is I'm pretty sure no mages would become an Abomination if properly educated.

Demons are not some "test" you only have to study and take once to fight them off.

Willowhugger wrote...

Yeah, but you have to agree to do it. You have to wonder what moron agrees to become a demon's meat puppet and why they'd do it.

There's such a thing called "force possession".   They are not all willingly.

Didn't the writers confirm a mage has to "want" to become an abomination? Its doesn't matter by force or their own will they have to allow it to happen. you must force them to allow it by torture or something.

Modifié par Rassler, 23 janvier 2014 - 07:14 .

[Hellion Rex]

Willowhugger wrote...

That's not even remotely true. Mages turn to abominations either from a weak will or because they want more power, or if they willingly choose to do so (Anders). It's not a matter of education in the least.

Yeah, but you have to agree to do it. You have to wonder what moron agrees to become a demon's meat puppet and why they'd do it.

I mean, it makes sense in DA2 if the mages are suicide bombing the Templars.

And the Baroness becomes a Pride Demon versus gets possessed.

I can't imagine what happened with Uldred.

Uldred summoned the Pride demon initially to gain power, then accidentally got himself possessed. They don't have to literally say "Yes" to a demon to be possessed...at least 99% sure about that.

[Veruin]

Rassler wrote...
Didn't the writers confirm a mage has to "want" to become an abomination? Its doesn't matter by force or their own will they have to allow it to happen. you must force them to allow it by torture or something.

You'll need a reference for that.  That is something I have never even heard of until now.

[Hellion Rex]

dragonflight288 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Willowhugger wrote...

The irony is I'm pretty sure no mages would become an Abomination if properly educated.

That's not even remotely true. Mages turn to abominations either from a weak will or because they want more power, or if they willingly choose to do so (Anders). It's not a matter of education in the least.

Although education is a very large factor. Take Connor. He had no idea what he was doing, that the nice lady was a demon or even how much magic he could do as he could only barely cast minor spells. All he knew was that he wanted to help his father.

A good education (and a lot less politics and back room dealing by his parents and the country's leaders) would've made all the difference. 

True, but apprentices in Circles get the best magical education available. Connor's an exception because he was outside of the Circle's bounds.

[Willowhugger]

Uldred summoned the Pride demon initially to gain power, then accidentally got himself possessed. They don't have to literally say "Yes" to a demon to be possessed...at least 99% sure about that.

I'm pretty sure they do. However, they can "cheat" since we see them torturing the Senior Enchanters into presumably saying yes.

I mean, how long until you say you can have my body if you're being burned alive and healed?

That's just one thing Mage Abominations could do.

To be an Abomination you either have to agree or be a corpse.

Modifié par Willowhugger, 23 janvier 2014 - 07:16 .

[AresKeith]

dragonflight288 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Willowhugger wrote...

The irony is I'm pretty sure no mages would become an Abomination if properly educated.

That's not even remotely true. Mages turn to abominations either from a weak will or because they want more power, or if they willingly choose to do so (Anders). It's not a matter of education in the least.

Although education is a very large factor. Take Connor. He had no idea what he was doing, that the nice lady was a demon or even how much magic he could do as he could only barely cast minor spells. All he knew was that he wanted to help his father.

A good education (and a lot less politics and back room dealing by his parents and the country's leaders) would've made all the difference. 

It still wouldn't make a difference, because some are forced into possession because they are weak-willed, and some chooses to do it just to gain power

[Lulupab]

eluvianix wrote...

Willowhugger wrote...

That's not even remotely true. Mages turn to abominations either from a weak will or because they want more power, or if they willingly choose to do so (Anders). It's not a matter of education in the least.

Yeah, but you have to agree to do it. You have to wonder what moron agrees to become a demon's meat puppet and why they'd do it.

I mean, it makes sense in DA2 if the mages are suicide bombing the Templars.

And the Baroness becomes a Pride Demon versus gets possessed.

I can't imagine what happened with Uldred.

Uldred summoned the Pride demon initially to gain power, then accidentally got himself possessed. They don't have to literally say "Yes" to a demon to be possessed...at least 99% sure about that.

I think those "accidents" are not so different than what happens to our companions in the fade in DA2. In presence of demon you should never accept anything they offer. The pride demon rpobably offered freedom for all mages and Uldred accepted, BAM.

[dragonflight288]

eluvianix wrote...

Willowhugger wrote...

That's not even remotely true. Mages turn to abominations either from a weak will or because they want more power, or if they willingly choose to do so (Anders). It's not a matter of education in the least.

Yeah, but you have to agree to do it. You have to wonder what moron agrees to become a demon's meat puppet and why they'd do it.

I mean, it makes sense in DA2 if the mages are suicide bombing the Templars.

And the Baroness becomes a Pride Demon versus gets possessed.

I can't imagine what happened with Uldred.

Uldred summoned the Pride demon initially to gain power, then accidentally got himself possessed. They don't have to literally say "Yes" to a demon to be possessed...at least 99% sure about that.

They don't. It's one of the most common ways, but you can also lose a battle of wills with the demon. In the Fade, everything is a matter of will. Lose a fight there, you are essentially being consumed and your mind, your will is fed upon by the demon and they use that link to possess you.

Outside the Fade, demons can forcibly possess someone in a moment of weakness by overwhelming them. I think that's what happened to Uldred. I'm 75% sure that's what happened to Sophia Dryden, as the demon had enough access to enough of her mind to gather information from it, and I haven't seen any examples of demons doing this when they possess corpses.