30 réponses à ce sujet

[Lulupab]

So based on events in asunder and DA2 spirtis are capable of curing tranquility. Anders was able to cure Karl temporarily by just using his powers near him. It seems possession is not even necessari and they just need to make a connection with the tranquill with the help of other mages. This also means possessed mages are immune to tranquility as we can't severe their connection to fade when a piece of fade itself lives inside them.

Opinions?  How much will it change the war and most importantly what do you think about it? Would you cure tranquils in your playhtrough?

Modifié par Rassler, 29 décembre 2013 - 10:54 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

No waste of time and money plus it is dangerous mess with spirits and well it is not my problem.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 29 décembre 2013 - 10:55 .

[Kidd]

Of course I'd like to cure tranquillity, it's one of the primary ways in which mages lose their most basic rights.

The cure is problematic though in how it shows that the current method of keeping mages down can be reversed and broken. As much as this is good news in obvious ways, it also means those who consider the well-being of the many to be more important than the freedom of mages have lost their go-to response. If tranquillity isn't cutting it, what will?

Many would probably be of the opinion that mages now need to be killed right away for the benefit of us all. That is a very dangerous opinion to have rising in relevance. In many ways, it is better for mages to live under fear of a possible future lobotomy than to risk having their murder legalised.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

I doubt any tranquil gives a damn about this cure.

[Kurremurre]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

No waste of time and money plus it is dangerous mess with spirits and well it is not my problem.

Saving someone from "eternal torment" is a waste of time and money? Wow.

Anyway, according to the research of Pharamond, a restored Tranquil is unusually emotional, which could potentially make them more susceptible to demonic influence, right? If so, then if this cure were to gain widespread use, it might cause a lot of trouble, which could go either way: either the Templars would get more vicious in their treatment of mages, or they would think thrice before making a mage Tranquil, as it would make them a walking time bomb. Or both.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Kurremurre wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

No waste of time and money plus it is dangerous mess with spirits and well it is not my problem.

Saving someone from "eternal torment" is a waste of time and money? Wow.

Anyway, according to the research of Pharamond, a restored Tranquil is unusually emotional, which could potentially make them more susceptible to demonic influence, right? If so, then if this cure were to gain widespread use, it might cause a lot of trouble, which could go either way: either the Templars would get more vicious in their treatment of mages, or they would think thrice before making a mage Tranquil, as it would make them a walking time bomb. Or both.

Yes but where i stated i care about others?
I want them kill simple because it is cheaper quicker and less problematic and that it is better than delivering them fate worse than death is only nicer addition for them. 

[Kurremurre]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Kurremurre wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

No waste of time and money plus it is dangerous mess with spirits and well it is not my problem.

Saving someone from "eternal torment" is a waste of time and money? Wow.

Anyway, according to the research of Pharamond, a restored Tranquil is unusually emotional, which could potentially make them more susceptible to demonic influence, right? If so, then if this cure were to gain widespread use, it might cause a lot of trouble, which could go either way: either the Templars would get more vicious in their treatment of mages, or they would think thrice before making a mage Tranquil, as it would make them a walking time bomb. Or both.

Yes but where i stated i care about others?
I want them kill simple because it is cheaper quicker and less problematic and that it is better than delivering them fate worse than death is only nicer addition for them. 

That's exactly the frightening conclusion I drew, thanks.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Kurremurre wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...



Yes but where i stated i care about others?
I want them kill simple because it is cheaper quicker and less problematic and that it is better than delivering them fate worse than death is only nicer addition for them. 

That's exactly the frightening conclusion I drew, thanks.

Well everyone does that but some admit it others not.Juts look on thedas do you think that averge cirizen cares about mage or elf fate no they care only about their life.

[Kurremurre]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Well everyone does that but some admit it others not.Juts look on thedas do you think that averge cirizen cares about mage or elf fate no they care only about their life.

Oh, I see, so you're talking about you as the Inquisitor, then. In that case, it certainly is your problem - as Inquisitor, you've made it so.

And I haven't even seen half the people of Thedas, and neither have you. That said, peasants would have their hands full with taking care of themselves, so that's hardly a surprise, and a lot of people would probably be so far removed from these issues that it wouldn't enter their minds.

[EmperorSahlertz]

It changes nothing that there is a cure foir Tranquility. It might even be a better tool for punishment now actually. Sentence a mage to a few years without emotion, and see if he remains unruly afterwards. If he does, make it permanent. The fact that it can be xured, does not prevent the application of the Rite.

[Giubba]

Kurremurre wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

No waste of time and money plus it is dangerous mess with spirits and well it is not my problem.

Saving someone from "eternal torment" is a waste of time and money? Wow.

Anyway, according to the research of Pharamond, a restored Tranquil is unusually emotional, which could potentially make them more susceptible to demonic influence, right? If so, then if this cure were to gain widespread use, it might cause a lot of trouble, which could go either way: either the Templars would get more vicious in their treatment of mages, or they would think thrice before making a mage Tranquil, as it would make them a walking time bomb. Or both.

For what trasspire from Asunder Pharamond is always in a highly emotional state because his brain fuction regarding emotion control were atrophied.
The fact that he found himself in a higly problematic situation didn't help, subject like him should take years before mastering again some form of emotional control.

[Scroll]

The only use for curing Tranquility would be if someone is wrongfully tranquillized. Mages who are dangerous, bloodmages, Mages who can't control their power or who wish to be severed from the Fade still need to be tranquillized unless they are killed.

[Potato Cat]

It's far too dangerous. Most Tranquil have had the Rite performed on the for good reason. They can't control their abilities, they're too likely to turn to demons, etc. So clearly the best course of action is to put them in close contact with a Fade Spirit resulting in their power returning and becoming incredibly emotionally unstable. Brilliant plan!

[Magdalena11]

I don't think anyone should attempt to reverse the rite of tranquility. While the both mages who regained their emotions again asked for death rather than a return to tranquility, seeing what a mess Pharamond became after he got his emotions back convinces me that leaving them alone is the best choice. The deed's been done and the tranquil is comfortable and productive. Many tranquils ask for it in the first place and these unharrowed mages are still at risk for possession.

To kill a mage rather than making him tranquil is an entirely different argument and one that's already been debated to death.

[Sir JK]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Of course I'd like to cure tranquillity, it's one of the primary ways in which mages lose their most basic rights.

The cure is problematic though in how it shows that the current method of keeping mages down can be reversed and broken. As much as this is good news in obvious ways, it also means those who consider the well-being of the many to be more important than the freedom of mages have lost their go-to response. If tranquillity isn't cutting it, what will?

I disagree. If Tranquility is reversible then it becomes consierably easier to use. No longer is it permanent mental mutilation but a temporary condition. The mental trauma it causes still warrants caution, but since it's no longer permanent any objection on that ground to make it a last resort stands on much looser ground.

It essentially means that the burden of evidence needed is much less... after all... if the mage is proven innocent afterwards you can simply reverse it, can you not?

As frightening as it may sound... but it being reversible makes it a tool considerably easier to use.

Only if the mages, assuming the circles are retained, start a movement to reverse the process from under the noses of templars does it become unattainable.

Many would probably be of the opinion that mages now need to be killed right away for the benefit of us all. That is a very dangerous opinion to have rising in relevance. In many ways, it is better for mages to live under fear of a possible future lobotomy than to risk having their murder legalised.

This, however, I agree with completely with.

To kill a mage is much easier than to tranquilize them. Which means you -will- start seeing templars taking shortcuts. Letting lynch-mobs have the mages. Killing them as a precaution. Dispensing with trials for percieved dangerous mages.
It's also a circle that more or less directly tells it's templars that it's okay to kill mages. At least now there's a theoretical line drawn just before that, even if crossing it is frequently tolerated.

But a circle that kills it's troublesome mages will be -much- worse in it's abuses than one that tranquilizes them.

[Sith Grey Warden]

Mages who can't control their powers are a huge danger to everyone around them. While I don't think we can definitively say whether the Templars set the bar for "having control" in the right place, those who would fail to control their powers need to either be killed or made tranquil.

I support more freedom for mages. The circle system is rife for abuse. However, freedom can only be extended to those who are not a danger to others without willing to be.

[QueenPurpleScrap]

It seems to me that if there is a way to reverse the process there should also be a way to modify it, if somebody is willing to look for it.

Why do some mages ask for the Rite? Because they're scared. They're scared of the demons talking to them in their sleep. They're scared because they haven't been successful enough in their studies to master their abilities. It doesn't necessarily mean they don't want to feel normal emotions or live a normal life.

Maybe if, instead of a cure, they searched for an alternative it would be better. Keep the more extreme form as a punishment to be implemented after due process, not the arbitrary determination of one person. A mage found guilty of using or trying to use mind control? I have no problem with their being tranquilized or killed.

[Angrywolves]

Don't we have enough of these threads ?Like I said I am for it except for Jowan if he's still alive.He can be executed btw.

[Kurremurre]

QueenPurpleScrap wrote...

It seems to me that if there is a way to reverse the process there should also be a way to modify it, if somebody is willing to look for it.

Why do some mages ask for the Rite? Because they're scared. They're scared of the demons talking to them in their sleep. They're scared because they haven't been successful enough in their studies to master their abilities. It doesn't necessarily mean they don't want to feel normal emotions or live a normal life.

Maybe if, instead of a cure, they searched for an alternative it would be better. Keep the more extreme form as a punishment to be implemented after due process, not the arbitrary determination of one person. A mage found guilty of using or trying to use mind control? I have no problem with their being tranquilized or killed.

That would certainly be the best solution, but I don't know if it's as simple as that. I've only read the summary on the Wiki page on Pharamond, so I don't know the details, but if reversing the process requires a demon to somehow touch the mind of the Tranquil, that doesn't sound like something very easily modified.

[Hellion Rex]

Kurremurre wrote...

QueenPurpleScrap wrote...

It seems to me that if there is a way to reverse the process there should also be a way to modify it, if somebody is willing to look for it.

Why do some mages ask for the Rite? Because they're scared. They're scared of the demons talking to them in their sleep. They're scared because they haven't been successful enough in their studies to master their abilities. It doesn't necessarily mean they don't want to feel normal emotions or live a normal life.

Maybe if, instead of a cure, they searched for an alternative it would be better. Keep the more extreme form as a punishment to be implemented after due process, not the arbitrary determination of one person. A mage found guilty of using or trying to use mind control? I have no problem with their being tranquilized or killed.

That would certainly be the best solution, but I don't know if it's as simple as that. I've only read the summary on the Wiki page on Pharamond, so I don't know the details, but if reversing the process requires a demon to somehow touch the mind of the Tranquil, that doesn't sound like something very easily modified.

Spirit or demon. It's not just limited to demons, although Pharamond was indeed cured by the touch of a pride demon.

[Kurremurre]

eluvianix wrote...

Spirit or demon. It's not just limited to demons, although Pharamond was indeed cured by the touch of a pride demon.

Ah, right. So then it might involve cooperation with benevolent spirits, I guess? Although even so, depending on the actual mechanics of the reversal, it might still not be so easy to modify it.

[O_OotherSide]

"Spirits" can be just as dangerous as demons. What exactly happened in the book to reverse tranquility?

[Kurremurre]

O_OotherSide wrote...

"Spirits" can be just as dangerous as demons. What exactly happened in the book to reverse tranquility?

True enough, although I would assume there's some sort of personality to every spirit in the same way as any other creature, so there ought to be truly benevolent spirits out there, too.

[Magdalena11]

O_OotherSide wrote...

"Spirits" can be just as dangerous as demons. What exactly happened in the book to reverse tranquility?

I agree with the first part but only once the spirit has merged with a mortal through possession.  Anders did corrupt Justice, after all.  Spirits don't usually go around looking for mortal hosts though.

Asunder doesn't go into detail how Pharamond reversed his tranquility.  He told Rhys that the touch of a spirit is all that's required and that he had sought out a spirit.  I can only assume he used lyrium to communicate across the veil and the demon was powerful enough to home in on him.  He certainly couldn't have crossed the veil himself unless he had mages to send him and he did not.

[wright1978]

I'd be very dubious about a universal cure & doubt i'd support it. Curing individual cases were it was used dubiously i would likely support. More importantly I'd much prefer much tighter controls over the use of tranquility, appeals process and checks in place to ensure their ethical treatment afterwards etc.