225 réponses à ce sujet

[I_pity_the_fool]

The OP actually raises an interesting point.

It seems to me to be quite rare that someone would get the absolute minimum cooldown of three seconds on their tactical cloak (and this may in fact be impossible to do, since TC has a minimum length of 1 second). People do tend to inefficiently engage cloak before they've quite gotten in position to fire.

I wonder if it's possible that the cooldown bonus you get from using up a smaller portion of the cloak with duration outweighs the 40% bonus you'd get from damage

[Striker93175]

All the talk about using the full duration of your cloak I must bring back up the shadow...

I know when I shadow, the only time I am NOT in cloak (short of brief cooldown preiods inbetween each cloak cycle) is when I reveal for a split second to chop off a head with melee since with bonus power im jumping around in shadow strike still cloaked.

Only other time I break is to charge my acolyte only to go right back into cloak, or to empty my hurricane into a boss.

So... while I'm sure it sucks to be the other 3 with the increased aggro, I kinda feel the shadow gets a free pass on exploiting duration.

Modifié par Striker93175, 31 décembre 2013 - 06:56 .

[Dr. Tim Whatley]

stealth_202 wrote...

b00g13man wrote...

stealth_202 wrote...

Cirvante wrote...

Aside from the fact that damage cloak infiltrators can revive just as well as duration infiltrators, the vast majority of players who spec into duration cloak play like complete scrubs. They hide in their duration cloak and run around instead of killing things most of the time. They try to position themselves better, yet know nothing about soft cover and RHA.

Damage Infiltrators can revive only if all players stick together. This doesn't happen in 8/10 pugs.

How exactly do you revive players when there isn't an infiltrator in the team? I'd really like to know what you do in that situation.

If it's not safe to revive, I will do it by ending the wave. I will not exchange my life for pug's one.

If it isn't safe to revive, you would go in only if you had duration cloak? How does duration help once you've revived them, breaking cloak in the process? Do you need more than 5.2s to run in and revive them?

I don't get it.

[billpickles]

I_pity_the_fool wrote...

The OP actually raises an interesting point.

It seems to me to be quite rare that someone would get the absolute minimum cooldown of three seconds on their tactical cloak (and this may in fact be impossible to do, since TC has a minimum length of 1 second). People do tend to inefficiently engage cloak before they've quite gotten in position to fire.

I wonder if it's possible that the cooldown bonus you get from using up a smaller portion of the cloak with duration outweighs the 40% bonus you'd get from damage

^what?

You get ready to fire FIRST.
THEN you hit cloak.
Hitting cloak and firing should be near-simultaneous actions.  Actually...hitting cloak, hitting a power, and firing should be nigh simultaneous.  You don't cloak, then find something to shoot.  That's just silly and wasteful.

Modifié par billpickles, 01 janvier 2014 - 12:33 .

[Saints]

billpickles wrote...

I_pity_the_fool wrote...

The OP actually raises an interesting point.

It seems to me to be quite rare that someone would get the absolute minimum cooldown of three seconds on their tactical cloak (and this may in fact be impossible to do, since TC has a minimum length of 1 second). People do tend to inefficiently engage cloak before they've quite gotten in position to fire.

I wonder if it's possible that the cooldown bonus you get from using up a smaller portion of the cloak with duration outweighs the 40% bonus you'd get from damage

^what?

You get ready to fire FIRST.
THEN you hit cloak.
Hitting cloak and firing should be near-simultaneous actions.  Actually...hitting cloak, hitting a power, and firing should nigh simultaneous.  You don't cloak, then find something to shoot.  That's just silly and wasteful.

[Saints]

 I like the people who counter argument about score when there was no one who mentioned it in the first place.

Also the one guy who couldn't defend so he resorted to just saying "teh BSN HEURD at it again!".

Modifié par Saints944, 31 décembre 2013 - 08:59 .

[I_pity_the_fool]

billpickles wrote...

I_pity_the_fool wrote...

The OP actually raises an interesting point.

It seems to me to be quite rare that someone would get the absolute minimum cooldown of three seconds on their tactical cloak (and this may in fact be impossible to do, since TC has a minimum length of 1 second). People do tend to inefficiently engage cloak before they've quite gotten in position to fire.

I wonder if it's possible that the cooldown bonus you get from using up a smaller portion of the cloak with duration outweighs the 40% bonus you'd get from damage

^what?

You get ready to fire FIRST.
THEN you hit cloak.
Hitting cloak and firing should be near-simultaneous actions.  Actually...hitting cloak, hitting a power, and firing should nigh simultaneous.  You don't cloak, then find something to shoot.  That's just silly and wasteful.

Eh. I never play infiltrators, so I'm well out of practice.

[megabeast37215]

IamZAE wrote...

Aedolon wrote...

IamZAE wrote...

Tac Cloak spammers... all of you... so cheap. Stop spamming such an abusive OP power you scrubs

+1

Almost as cheap as spamming Cain Trip Mines.

Extra 80% damage from tac cloak on a constant 3sec cooldown EASILY surpasses the cain mines damage over the course of a match. Do the math then go cry for being a power abuser

This is actually true except on double grenade box maps...

[Zero132132]

Evil Mastered wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

It obviously isn't the intention, but if you actually USE the full duration when you cloak, then the effect is that everyone but you takes more damage. The increased survivability and utility comes at the cost of decreasing everyone else's survivability.

Evil Mastered wrote...

One thing I will say in defence of the duration infiltrator:

Just because it lets a player deliberately dump aggro onto their team-mates doesn't mean they're going to do so constantly.

Many duration infiltrators just use the first few seconds of cloak the majority of the time, behaving much like a weaker version of the "normal" infiltrator, then use the extended cloak when the overall benefits outweigh the downsides to their team-mates.

Now we're discussing the proper usage of the duration evo, not it's validity.

I'll happily agree that overuse of the full duraton is bad for your team-mates, and should be avoided where possible.

If the duration infiltrator is doing it right, their team-mates won't even know that they speced for duration until the first time they use it in that game to do an objective/res/flank that a damage infiltrator would have been incapable of, because they don't use the full duration 90% of the time, keeping aggro dump to a minimum.

Depending how the game goes, they might never actually realise that they played with a duration infiltrator at all.

As I said earlier though, I still prefer damage over duration 8/11ths of the time.

To me, that the 'right' way to play a duration infiltrator is to almost never cloak for the full duration implies that it really can't be all that useful the majority of any given match. Damage is useful whenever you're not dead and there are enemies left to fight.

Basically, it kind of sounds like playing a duration infiltrator the "right" way is, in most situations, a less killtacular version of a damage infiltrator.

[Cirvante]

I_pity_the_fool wrote...

billpickles wrote...

I_pity_the_fool wrote...

The OP actually raises an interesting point.

It seems to me to be quite rare that someone would get the absolute minimum cooldown of three seconds on their tactical cloak (and this may in fact be impossible to do, since TC has a minimum length of 1 second). People do tend to inefficiently engage cloak before they've quite gotten in position to fire.

I wonder if it's possible that the cooldown bonus you get from using up a smaller portion of the cloak with duration outweighs the 40% bonus you'd get from damage

^what?

You get ready to fire FIRST.
THEN you hit cloak.
Hitting cloak and firing should be near-simultaneous actions.  Actually...hitting cloak, hitting a power, and firing should nigh simultaneous.  You don't cloak, then find something to shoot.  That's just silly and wasteful.

Eh. I never play infiltrators, so I'm well out of practice.

"Hey guys, I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I'm going to do it anyway."

stealth_202 wrote...

b00g13man wrote...

stealth_202 wrote...

Damage Infiltrators can revive only if all players stick together. This doesn't happen in 8/10 pugs.

How exactly do you revive players when there isn't an infiltrator in the team? I'd really like to know what you do in that situation.

If it's not safe to revive, I will do it by ending the wave. I will not exchange my life for pug's one.

Damage infiltrators can revive just as well, since reviving breaks cloak anyway. If a pug dies at the other end of the map and proceeds to bleed out, you shouldn't try to revive him regardless of your cloak's duration. Damage infiltrators are far better at clutching waves after all the pugs have bled out though, and with clutching I mean killing all enemies in a quick and effective fashion, not derping around in cloak and running away for 10 minutes.

[sobit]

You're trying so hard, it's almost cute.

(directed at OP, not going through this 7 page clusterf*ck)

Modifié par sobit, 01 janvier 2014 - 02:16 .

[Ferocious Panda]

NuclearTech76 wrote...

Chief Capo wrote...

There's no way Duration is better than Damage unless you're planning on being support and doing objectives, or reviving players lol

Why are people still spewing this nonsense? Cloak breaks regardless whether it's short cloak or long cloak. If it takes more than 5 secs to revives some scrub then you're better off killing stuff anyways.

yeah cloak breaks after reviving but not before reviving. How do people not get this?

[Striker93175]

Ferocious Panda wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...

Chief Capo wrote...

There's no way Duration is better than Damage unless you're planning on being support and doing objectives, or reviving players lol

Why are people still spewing this nonsense? Cloak breaks regardless whether it's short cloak or long cloak. If it takes more than 5 secs to revives some scrub then you're better off killing stuff anyways.

yeah cloak breaks after reviving but not before reviving. How do people not get this?

and back to the melee/shadow strike shadow the moment you revive you cloak strike away and keep truckin so while reviving find a target and keep mashing ss so you ninja out the moment your done:ph34r:

Modifié par Striker93175, 01 janvier 2014 - 04:19 .

[me0120]

A better argument is Adrenaline Rush, Damage Bonus vs Damage Reduction.

[Shadohz]

Ferocious Panda wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...

Chief Capo wrote...

There's no way Duration is better than Damage unless you're planning on being support and doing objectives, or reviving players lol

Why are people still spewing this nonsense? Cloak breaks regardless whether it's short cloak or long cloak. If it takes more than 5 secs to revives some scrub then you're better off killing stuff anyways.

yeah cloak breaks after reviving but not before reviving. How do people not get this?

*shrug* Depends on the scenario and strategy.
Attack>>Revive
You're going to end up breaking cloak to draw aggro. If you are unable to reach squadmate in time then there is a higher risk of bleed-out if no medgels available. Advantage: Damage

Revive>>Attack
You're going to be in cloak duration of revive and should have enough time remaining for cloaked attack. Lower risk of squadmate bleed-out. Higher risk of TC breaking during revive on damage kit. Advantage: Duration.

Modifié par Shadohz, 01 janvier 2014 - 06:58 .

[Dr. Tim Whatley]

Shadohz wrote...

Revive>>Attack
You're going to be in cloak duration of revive and should have enough time remaining for cloaked attack. Lower risk of squadmate bleed-out. Higher risk of TC breaking during revive on damage kit. Advantage: Duration.

I'll ask these questions again...

Why do you need to be in cloak longer than 5.2s to get to the team mate? If you need longer than that, I can almost guarantee they've already been stomped. If your answer is that you don't need that long, then how exactly does duration help if cloak breaks as soon as you revive them regardless of the duration.

Modifié par b00g13man, 01 janvier 2014 - 08:37 .

[Dr. Tim Whatley]

me0120 wrote...

A better argument is Adrenaline Rush, Damage Bonus vs Damage Reduction.

Both good evos. I prefer the DR personally.

[Shadohz]

b00g13man wrote...

Shadohz wrote...

Revive>>Attack
You're going to be in cloak duration of revive and should have enough time remaining for cloaked attack. Lower risk of squadmate bleed-out. Higher risk of TC breaking during revive on damage kit. Advantage: Duration.

I'll ask these questions again...

Why do you need to be in cloak longer than 5.2s to get to the team mate? If you need longer than that, I can almost guarantee they've already been stomped. If your answer is that you don't need that long, then how exactly does duration help if cloak breaks as soon as you revive them regardless of the duration.

Why? Teammate is more than 3 secs away and you have multiple mooks between you and him. I can guarentee you that I've never had a teammate curb stomped when they were more than 6 secs away because my cat-like reflexes and ninja skills. 

[stealth_202]

b00g13man wrote...

Shadohz wrote...

Revive>>Attack
You're going to be in cloak duration of revive and should have enough time remaining for cloaked attack. Lower risk of squadmate bleed-out. Higher risk of TC breaking during revive on damage kit. Advantage: Duration.

I'll ask these questions again...

Why do you need to be in cloak longer than 5.2s to get to the team mate? If you need longer than that, I can almost guarantee they've already been stomped. If your answer is that you don't need that long, then how exactly does duration help if cloak breaks as soon as you revive them regardless of the duration.

An example showing 5.2s can be not enough. My TC gone before I finished reviving, not after 1sec as it would be with Duration Cloak.

[Dr. Tim Whatley]

stealth_202 wrote...

b00g13man wrote...

Shadohz wrote...

Revive>>Attack
You're going to be in cloak duration of revive and should have enough time remaining for cloaked attack. Lower risk of squadmate bleed-out. Higher risk of TC breaking during revive on damage kit. Advantage: Duration.

I'll ask these questions again...

Why do you need to be in cloak longer than 5.2s to get to the team mate? If you need longer than that, I can almost guarantee they've already been stomped. If your answer is that you don't need that long, then how exactly does duration help if cloak breaks as soon as you revive them regardless of the duration.

An example showing 5.2s can be not enough. My TC gone before I finished reviving, not after 1sec as it would be with Duration Cloak.

That looks like cloak breaking because you revived him. Duration doesn't change that unless I'm very horribly mistaken.

Edit - You still didn't need to be cloaked for longer than 5.2s anyway, so the vid is pointless. If anything, it shows that you can still revive in tricky spots with damage cloak.

Modifié par b00g13man, 01 janvier 2014 - 12:23 .

[Wizard of Ox]

You don't need to be cloaked to revive teammates, let alone duration cloak. And I prefer Damage Bonus for Adrenaline Rush.

And, in the vid, you are cloaked for less than six seconds so taking duration, in that case, made no difference.

Modifié par KroGan_eRRanT, 01 janvier 2014 - 12:04 .

[stealth_202]

b00g13man wrote...

stealth_202 wrote...

b00g13man wrote...

Shadohz wrote...

Revive>>Attack
You're going to be in cloak duration of revive and should have enough time remaining for cloaked attack. Lower risk of squadmate bleed-out. Higher risk of TC breaking during revive on damage kit. Advantage: Duration.

I'll ask these questions again...

Why do you need to be in cloak longer than 5.2s to get to the team mate? If you need longer than that, I can almost guarantee they've already been stomped. If your answer is that you don't need that long, then how exactly does duration help if cloak breaks as soon as you revive them regardless of the duration.

An example showing 5.2s can be not enough. My TC gone before I finished reviving, not after 1sec as it would be with Duration Cloak.

That looks like cloak breaking becuase you revived him. Duration doesn't change that unless I'm very horribly mistaken.

Edit - You still didn't need to be cloaked for longer than 5.2s anyway, so the vid is pointless. If anything, it shows that you can still revive in tricky spots with damage cloak.

Nope. The Cloak broke because it's time ended. I've lost a second or two because of Brute. And it's not an exception. Sometimes I come close to teammate, see the reviving icon, hit the button and it's not working (probably because of lag). I change position and try again, losing one or two seconds.

Another vid showing how it works with Duration Cloak. It's just more safe and reliable.

[Dr. Tim Whatley]

^ My bad. I forgot what that looked like.

The point still stands that you didn't need longer than 5.2s to make the revive. If the surrounding area was more densely populated, reviving without clearing the area first wouldn't exactly be beneficial to the player. And guess what would help you clear the area quicker...

[jackjj]

the longer you play & the better you get - both works

had problems with the damage evo over duration

but now I prefer damage

granted: duration comes in handy in tricky situations which happen quite often with "PUG"s

Modifié par jackjj, 01 janvier 2014 - 08:58 .