203 réponses à ce sujet

[dragonflight288]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Division is a relatively modern military term, so I don't think you should put too much into the numbers there. Besides 200,000 of cavalry alone is a ridiculous logistical nightmare (it is essentially 400,00 mouthes to feed), and also not a very well-balanced force (where is the infantry?). Not to mention that 200,000 would be probably the ENTIRE Orlesian army.

I don't know if it is or isn't. Orlais is a large country, and one of the world super-powers. It most definitely would be a HUGE chunk of their army, enough to occupy a country after a Blight and deal with resistance at any rate.

And I was using Roman Legion numbers. If the devs come out and say that Roman Legion numbers don't apply in Thedas, and an Orlesian Legion is different, then that would throw my math out the window and I can simply shrug and say "whatever, cool beans."

[Augustei]

I always make comparisons between ASOIAF / Game of Thrones & Dragon Age.. I usually compare Orlais with The Reach thinking they can raise an army of about 80,000-100,000 soldiers. But that's just me

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 31 décembre 2013 - 05:16 .

[Toasted Llama]

XxDeonxX wrote...

And the fact he tried to desert the Wardens, other than that I like him though. Like I said before I would have taken the risk and spared his life If he didn't try to desert the Wardens like he did.

Hate the writers. He originally wasn't supposed to desert ('hidden' dialogue exchange between Loghain and Alistair that happens AFTER the landsmeet proves this) but for some reason they thought: "**** it, you can't have both Alistair as well as Loghain. Going into exile is fun anyway."

I still think Loghain was going mad. The Orleisian's help was necesarry and I'd rather see my country taken over by another one than completely annihalated and destroyed by Darkspawn, if you ask me. Eitherway this doesn't apply to the thread anymore herpaderp.


Back to the Cousland/Mac Tir line: I think it's gonna be a Cousland line regardless, because of Fergus.

[EmperorSahlertz]

So you are willing to forgive a man who ABBANDONED the Grey Wardens, almost dooming the entirety of Ferelden. Yet when a single Warden leaves you throw a hissy fit? I'm sorry but that isn't entirely consistent.

[Angrywolves]

Marakov7 wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

I don't agree with the anti-Alistair crowd but they played DAO as they wanted to and can play DAI as they want to.

I won't play as they did.

That's freedom isn' it ?

Believe Makarov said nonsense but he can play as he wants to and so can Xdeonx.

shrugs.

Well, I appreciate you saying that that it's okay for me to spout nonsense.  I agree, though, that everybody is entitled to their own opinions and decisions when playing the game - for me, reading their ideas (even if I don't agree with them) is a lot of fun.

perhaps I was overly harsh in calling what you said nonsense.I apologize.

I like Alistair.I know some players don't.In reality he should have taken over the process in DAO and not left it to our protagonist warden.

It's easy to say someone isn't a good leader or won't make a good leader. Alistair isn't  a real person, he's a contrived person a personality written by Gaider and isn't real.It amazes me people think Alistair acts like a real person would, or Elthinia acts like a real person would have acted.
I think Alistair is a good leader.Criticizing him for going to look for Maric is nonsense, apologies aside.I would go look for my father if I found out he was alive and maybe just maybe could be saved.

If we go to Ferelden it's problematic  whether Anora is still ruling. I assume she still is if she is ruling alone.
If she married a Cousland warden the rumor is he has disappeared, so she would be ruling alone there as well.

She is married to Alistair in most of my playthroughs.There are rumors that Alistair has disappeared prior to the events in DAI, so  if true I presume Anoira in that case would be ruling alone.
In the case where Anora has been exiled , some players choose that option I presume BannTeagan will be leading Ferelden.

"So you are willing to forgive a man who ABBANDONED the Grey Wardens,
almost dooming the entirety of Ferelden. Yet when a single Warden leaves
you throw a hissy fit? I'm sorry but that isn't entirely consistent.
"

Don't know who or what you're talking to or about friend...rotfl...

Modifié par Angrywolves, 31 décembre 2013 - 05:33 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

dragonflight288 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Division is a relatively modern military term, so I don't think you should put too much into the numbers there. Besides 200,000 of cavalry alone is a ridiculous logistical nightmare (it is essentially 400,00 mouthes to feed), and also not a very well-balanced force (where is the infantry?). Not to mention that 200,000 would be probably the ENTIRE Orlesian army.

I don't know if it is or isn't. Orlais is a large country, and one of the world super-powers. It most definitely would be a HUGE chunk of their army, enough to occupy a country after a Blight and deal with resistance at any rate.

And I was using Roman Legion numbers. If the devs come out and say that Roman Legion numbers don't apply in Thedas, and an Orlesian Legion is different, then that would throw my math out the window and I can simply shrug and say "whatever, cool beans."

Consdiering that Rome at its peak housed 88,000,000 citizens, and yet the army at this time was no larger than 200,00 men in total (that is ALL the legions combined). The Roman Empire was significantly larger than the Orlesian Empire currently is, so I would not assume that the Orlesian is able to muster a larger army than the Romans ever were. And I am completely certain that the Orlesian Empire at least wouldn't be able to muster a 200,000 strong army and send it ALL into Ferelden.

[Angrywolves]

true that...

"It depends, If you give Kaitlyn the sword back or dont give her enough money to get to Denerim he marries Bella instead, otherwise if you give Kaitlyn the money to get to Denerim then he marries her"

I give Kaitlyn money and her and her brother go to Denerim.

[jamesp81]

KC_Prototype wrote...

SgtSteel91 wrote...

I think I'm going to have two paths going into DAI: one where my Cousland Warden becomes Prince-Consort to Anora and Alistair exiles himself and one where Alistair becomes king with Anora as his queen and my Warden runs off with Morrigan.

I'm having a similar thing but with 3 paths. One Cousland who runs off with Morrigan, one mage who runs off with Leliana and another Cousland who becomes King-consort but Alistair isn't exiled.

This is the only time I've ever played an RPG and roled with a female main character.  So I can put Alistair on the throne and have him married to a grey warden.

It has all kinds of potential...king searching for his wife, Anora also causing trouble later (should've killed her along with her father, IMO).

[daveliam]

I'll tell you what, while Loghain isn't the purpose of this thread, the fact that there has been a three page discussion about his character makes me wish that there were more complex villains like him in the series.

[jamesp81]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Division is a relatively modern military term, so I don't think you should put too much into the numbers there. Besides 200,000 of cavalry alone is a ridiculous logistical nightmare (it is essentially 400,00 mouthes to feed), and also not a very well-balanced force (where is the infantry?). Not to mention that 200,000 would be probably the ENTIRE Orlesian army.

I don't know if it is or isn't. Orlais is a large country, and one of the world super-powers. It most definitely would be a HUGE chunk of their army, enough to occupy a country after a Blight and deal with resistance at any rate.

And I was using Roman Legion numbers. If the devs come out and say that Roman Legion numbers don't apply in Thedas, and an Orlesian Legion is different, then that would throw my math out the window and I can simply shrug and say "whatever, cool beans."

Consdiering that Rome at its peak housed 88,000,000 citizens, and yet the army at this time was no larger than 200,00 men in total (that is ALL the legions combined). The Roman Empire was significantly larger than the Orlesian Empire currently is, so I would not assume that the Orlesian is able to muster a larger army than the Romans ever were. And I am completely certain that the Orlesian Empire at least wouldn't be able to muster a 200,000 strong army and send it ALL into Ferelden.

Yeah, I'm not buying an Orlesian army over 100,000 myself, and that's what I'd expect to see during full scale war time mobilization.  I'd expect a peace time army to be half that.

At that level of technology, an army of 200,000, like the Romans had, is of a size that most would call 'ridiculously huge' during that time period.  Logistics was a lot more difficult in that time period of history, simply feeding an army was an enormous undertaking by itself, and that's before there was any fighting.

[Augustei]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

So you are willing to forgive a man who ABBANDONED the Grey Wardens, almost dooming the entirety of Ferelden. Yet when a single Warden leaves you throw a hissy fit? I'm sorry but that isn't entirely consistent.

Then you havn't been paying attention.
I'm willing to forgive A man who saved what remained of the Ferelden army, he abandoned nobody as far as Im concerned.. The grey wardens were on the front lines and the line was already broken through, They were either already dead or certainly would have been whether he charged the field or not..Loghains actions just determined whether he lost his entire army + Cailan and the Grey Wardens, or just Cailan the Wardens and half the army.
I dont believe him charing the field would have saved the day.

Angrywolves wrote...
I think Alistair is a good leader.Criticizing him for going to look for
Maric is nonsense, apologies aside.I would go look for my father if I
found out he was alive and maybe just maybe could be saved.

I'm not criticizing A man for going to look for his lost father, I'm criticizing a King for doing so when he should be at home ruling his blight devistated nation and keeping order, He should have sent others instead not gone himself.
But my main criticism is him in a room fule of Tevinter Nobles annoncing who he is to the world..Then every single Lord outside Ferelden may hear of this.. And certainly every one in Tevinter since so many were in that very room, Then these lords will begin to realise how rich they could get by holding him for ransom and Alistair will have caused the bankrupcy of his nation through his actions.

[Texhnolyze101]

I don't care about southern Thedas and its boring mundane people.

[KC_Prototype]

jamesp81 wrote...

KC_Prototype wrote...

SgtSteel91 wrote...

I think I'm going to have two paths going into DAI: one where my Cousland Warden becomes Prince-Consort to Anora and Alistair exiles himself and one where Alistair becomes king with Anora as his queen and my Warden runs off with Morrigan.

I'm having a similar thing but with 3 paths. One Cousland who runs off with Morrigan, one mage who runs off with Leliana and another Cousland who becomes King-consort but Alistair isn't exiled.

This is the only time I've ever played an RPG and roled with a female main character.  So I can put Alistair on the throne and have him married to a grey warden.

It has all kinds of potential...king searching for his wife, Anora also causing trouble later (should've killed her along with her father, IMO).

New book David! Alistair, searching for his long, lost love! O the emotions it would bring out of people!

[KC_Prototype]

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

I don't care about southern Thedas and its boring mundane people.

Ferelden over everybody!

[Wulfram]

Riordan says two dozen divisions of cavalry, not two hundred.

[Texhnolyze101]

KC_Prototype wrote...

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

I don't care about southern Thedas and its boring mundane people.

Ferelden over everybody!

Nah Tevinter is where its at

#Tevinter Imperium

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

KC_Prototype wrote...

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

I don't care about southern Thedas and its boring mundane people.

Ferelden over everybody!

Nah Tevinter is where its at

#Tevinter Imperium

The Tevinter Imperium is a joke compared to how it used to be & would easily be crushed by the qunari if the qunari where dedicated to doing that.

[Zerker]

Ferretinabun wrote...
Henry the 4th deposed and murdered the reigning monarch Richard the second.
The crown swung between the houses of York and Lancaster several times during the Wars of the Roses.
Henry the seventh, who overthrew Richard the third had only the most tenuous claim to the throne (his great grandmother was once the king's brother's mistress).
William and Mary ousted the reigning James the second and his heir during the Glorious Revolution.

As far as I know, all of the monarchs you listed are related by blood, and there is a blood relation between the houses of York and Lancaster as well, making these shifts essentially a power struggle between invidiuals of the same bloodline. Or am i wrong in this?

Modifié par Maddok900, 01 janvier 2014 - 02:49 .

[Magdalena11]

XxDeonxX wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

bah everything said by the fans is an opinion.

The blight was
stopped because the Archdemon died and the darkspawn fall apart when
that happens.Not because of any military prowess on the part of the
coalition the warden puts together.
No proof the Orlesians would have taken over and set back and forced the Fereldens to do all the fighting for them.

Obviously
you don't like Alistair and Eamon.And that's ok.but you should just say
so and don't waste space trying to justify it.No need to try to justify
your opinion.If you want to kill Alistair, save Loghain, make Anora
queen to rule alone then by all means do so and be happy about it and
don't be disturbed other players feel differently.

Proof? true there was none, but there was a strong indication from those Ostagar letters and there were established historical precedents for situations almost identical.

I do like Alistair, my warden was easy friends with him.. I don't like King Alistair however, or the idea of him being King to be more precise... And the fact he tried to desert the Wardens, other than that I like him though. Like I said before I would have taken the risk and spared his life If he didn't try to desert the Wardens like he did.

I don't like Eamon though, that is true.. I respect his skill but I hate his guts as a person.

The Ostagar letters were carefully worded to avoid definitive conclusions one way or another.  Depending on whether Alistair or Loghain went back a different slant was given to them.  Eamon advised Cailan to give up Anora in favor of Celene at some unspecified point in time.  Celene and Cailan coresponded.  Celene used a casual tone.  When Hawke got a letter from Alistair it was brief and casual and signed by Alistair personally.  That didn't mean Alistair had any dynastic intentions toward Hawke.  It just meant that that was how Alistair communicated.  It's not a good idea to draw conclusions based on historical precedents in this world.  It's a different world, a different culture, different problems, etc.  I can go on but you get the idea, no one wants to hear it and I don't want to have to type it all out.

Celene and Ferelden had communicated before, at least with Maric.  I assume that Cailan and she had communicated as well.  It is entirely possible that Cailan and Alistair shared the trait of simplicity.  I believe that as a master of the Game, Celene knew that the best chance she had for influence with Cailan was to be approachable and keep it low key.

I'm not keen on Eamon allowing a child under his care to sleep in the kennel while staying with a relative and even less seeing that after having done so he decided to put him forward as king against his wishes.  The reason I usually listen to Arl Eamon is that Alistair himself suggested I go to him and said he is a good man.  If anyone would know him it would be Alistair himself.  If Alistair had even once said something like "You know, I'm really not sure about this," I'd have backed down in a second.

Alistair only pitches a fit and abandons the blight if you recruit Loghain and don't marry him to Anora.  The reason I say this is because even if you kill Loghain and make him rule without Anora, he leaves the wardens.  He postpones his coronation and leaves Anora as a spare but he's not going back.  He has other responsibilities, wanted or not.  It's actually pretty convoluted to make him stay a warden.  If a player sees him as a crybaby who takes his marbles and goes home it's because that player has already decided that's what he's going to do.

Whether you decide to kill him or not, his fate is up to you.  No one is going to play the game for you.  What I am saying is that Alistair/Anora/Cailan/Loghain/Eamon is all up to you as a player and the plot has very carefully designed so that no choice is"right."

[Angrywolves]

Some players can blame Alistair all they want.He was the king and married Anora in most playthroughs.I feel reasonably sure of that.
Whether he still is when DAI starts remains to be seen.

Pretty much this:

"Whether you decide to kill him or not, his fate is up to you.  No one is
going to play the game for you.  What I am saying is that
Alistair/Anora/Cailan/Loghain/Eamon is all up to you as a player and the
plot has very carefully designed so that no choice is"right."

Modifié par Angrywolves, 01 janvier 2014 - 03:02 .

[TEWR]

Maddok900 wrote...

Neither the Mac Tir line, nor the Cousland line carry Theirin blood. So, assuming that Anora succeeds as the Queen, the head of the state, and the Cousland assumes the position of King-consort, or Prince-consort, there are a lot of questions left unanswered:

We don't have the exact bloodlines for the Cousland line, but for all we know one Cousland has married some distant relative of a Theirin generations ago. Intermarriage between houses did happen, after all. Bryce could have Theirin blood coursing through his veins.

Or maybe not. King Arland did kill a lot of Couslands 200 years ago. But then, maybe the Couslands married the Theirins afterwards. Who knows.

-If Anora is not unfertile as the rumor says; who their children -the new bloodline of Fereldan Kings- will be named after? Cousland line, or Mac Tir line? This is rather a unique issue, did they even have an heir?
-If it's called the "Cousland Bloodline", can the OGB have a claim on the Fereldan throne?

Mac Tir.

[TEWR]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Division is a relatively modern military term, so I don't think you should put too much into the numbers there. 
Besides 200,000 of cavalry alone is a ridiculous logistical nightmare (it is essentially 400,00 mouthes to feed), and also not a very well-balanced force (where is the infantry?). Not to mention that 200,000 would be probably the ENTIRE Orlesian army.

And he actually was sort of right. During the Landsmeet, he says the Wardens were bringing four legions of Chevalier's. Using Roman Legion numbers, a single legion is 3,000 soldiers. But when you talk to Riordan in Howe's dungeon, he says the wardens were coming with 200 divisions of calvary. Now a division can be anywhere from 1000-1500 soldiers, not as much as a legion, but 200 divisions is A LOT of soldiers. Four legions is 12,000 soldiers. 200 divisions is closer to 200,000.

That's a lot more than Loghain thought was coming.

Riordan actually says they were bringing two dozen divisions of cavalry, not 200. According to wikipedia, a division is anywhere between 10,000 to 15,000. Which comes to about 240,000 at least. But like Emp said, how much stock we can put into the numbers from our world is certainly in doubt. That said, I'll take a division as being certainly more troops then a legion for Orlais. Sending in two dozen divisions and telling the neighboring country four legions are coming is definitely suspect. 

[dragonflight288]

Riordan actually says they were bringing two dozen divisions of cavalry, not 200. According to wikipedia, a division is anywhere between 10,000 to 15,000. Which comes to about 240,000 at least. But like Emp said, how much stock we can put into the numbers from our world is certainly in doubt. That said, I'll take a division as being certainly more troops then a legion for Orlais. Sending in two dozen divisions and telling the neighboring country four legions are coming is definitely suspect.

Woops misremembered. Ah well, still far more than what Ferelden was expecting.

[Marakov7]

The number cited by Wiki is along the lines of a modern-day division, not something that was seen in the Medieval times. As has been noted, European medieval armies were much smaller...mainly due to logistical requirements (had to pretty much live off the land). I took a class a couple of years ago titled "The Gunpowder Revolution" and was surprised at the relatively small size of armies in those days. Unfortunately, I'm out of town so I can't access my notes/books, but the following web site seems to coincide quite a bit with that class...

http://historum.com/...ieval-army.html

Of course, that was medieval times on Earth, not Thedas...so who knows?

[Augustei]

Magdalena11 wrote...
The Ostagar letters were carefully worded to avoid definitive
conclusions one way or another.  Depending on whether Alistair or
Loghain went back a different slant was given to them.  Eamon advised
Cailan to give up Anora in favor of Celene at some unspecified point in
time.  Celene and Cailan coresponded.  Celene used a casual tone.  When
Hawke got a letter from Alistair it was brief and casual and signed by
Alistair personally.  That didn't mean Alistair had any dynastic
intentions toward Hawke.  It just meant that that was how Alistair
communicated.

David Gaider confirmed that it was actually happening, Cailan was going to leave Anora for Celene.

Magdalena11 wrote...
It's not a good idea to draw conclusions based on historical precedents
in this world.  It's a different world, a different culture, different
problems, etc.  I can go on but you get the idea, no one wants to hear
it and I don't want to have to type it all out.

I'm not talking about RL historical precedents here, I'm talking of historical in game precidents when Orlais conquered Nevarra after the 3rd blight.

I'm not keen on Eamon allowing a child under his care to sleep in the
kennel while staying with a relative and even less seeing that after
having done so he decided to put him forward as king against his wishes.
 The reason I usually listen to Arl Eamon is that Alistair himself
suggested I go to him and said he is a good man.  If anyone would know
him it would be Alistair himself.  If Alistair had even once said
something like "You know, I'm really not sure about this," I'd have
backed down in a second.

I dont put much stock in Alistair's word as Eamon being a good man since he only knows him from a few years of childhood, but more importantly Whether he is a good man or not does not concern me its his politics and amibitions and general political designs that do.
For instance I'm not keen on him putting a weak monarchy into place and setting a precedent of Chancellors ruling Ferelden.. And I don't want Eamon calling the shots thats for certain

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 01 janvier 2014 - 06:35 .