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Things from DA2 that you DON"T want to see in DA: I


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#101
Icy Magebane

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Oh yeah, poor companion AI.  If I tell them to "Hold," that means "Don't move from this spot at all."  Not sure why that was changed from DA:O...  There were also some issues with tactics not being followed, and a lot of standing around during combat, even when you had something really simple like "enemy: lowest health - Attack" at the end of the list.  I hope they clean some of that up.

#102
dienan47

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Setting up a tank was very complicated it DA:II (PC). I don't know if it was the same on other platforms. I'd set Ave to use taunt as soon as the hero/ally gets hit by an enemy melee attack and then as the 3rd tactic to shield bash any mage that is nearest visible. She would just go and keep attacking a random enemy and wouldn't taunt at all. So if it was my lucky day, she would use taunt after 10-15 seconds of the start of the battle where Hawke's health is down to 30% LOL. Tactics in DA:2 was broken as hell. Place your archer on high ground to take clear shots and the mage from afar and the rouge close to you, doesn't matter what you do but the game is angry with you and it doesn't want you to ambush your enemies. It wants you to go running into theirs instead. The horror..

#103
KiwiQuiche

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Two-Handed warriors only using one hand to swing their two-handed weapons.

More cutscene stupidity i,e just standing there while that crazy elf mage kills his wife.

Antagonist reduced to insane/stupid things, like Orsino MAHAHA GIANT MONSTER for no reason and Meredith turned in cliched insane villain. Along with that, stop portraying mages and templars BOTH as insane homicidal lunatics.

#104
TheKomandorShepard

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Joseph Warrick wrote...

David Gaider killing your mom and explaining that he decided it should happen regardless of your input because otherwise you would pick the options to save her and miss the drama.

Drama is effective in games if you're involved it, e.g., Mordin's death. You decided to keep the data. You decided to cure the genophage. You convinced Mordin he should do it and helped him make up his mind. You could have saved him - at a great cost, but you could have nevertheless. You are involved in these events. Not saying you are to blame, you're a part of the puzzle. You participated.


God how i hate enforced drama when i don't care and i play my character that same and then my character starts doing something that is out how i played him (or at least wanted) totally kills rp.Besides da 2 driven 99 % drama it was boring as hell most of that was enforced on my character god What a senseless game you end achieving nothing and screwing everything that you touch pretty one of that games that you don't care about anything because it will anyway blow up.  

#105
Fire Snake

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In Exile wrote...

TelvanniWarlord wrote...
I'm very afraid Bioware is travelling down this route again with DA:I.  In the alpha footage we've seen, the Venatori Gladiator in the keep the party fights has WAY too much health.  It took all 4 party members beating on the guy for a good 6 seconds to kill him.  It's just baffling that gameplay designers always seem to fall back on this repetitive and obselete system of design. 


The reality is that having the player and enemy play by the same rules creates one of two problems: (i) low level D&D play, where a party wipe can happen in seconds because of a few bad dice rolls or (ii) high level D&D play, where you curbstomp everything forever without exceptions. 

RPGs as designed can't create interesting combat. The entire system is just not designed for it. 


Well, every system comes with its set of problems.

For me, the first one you mention is actually a good thing. I want to be getting party wipes, especially early on. I want to feel vulnerable going into battle, even against a group of lowly bandits, as is befitting a bunch of newbie scrubs. I want to feel a real sense of fear and trepidation while exploring or taking a risk in combat. Early on I want to be really pushed tactically and need a bit of luck to survive, until becoming an accomplished character/adventurer when wipes become less luck based, less prone to annihilation avalanching and more a direct consequence of tactical skill. If my party isn't getting wiped at all, the game is too easy for me.

The second is a problem for all games isn't it? I don't see how this is a worse problem for RPGs that use a more universal ruleset (enemies never play by exactly the same rules). Perhaps you could explain it to me. AFAIK designers always need to balance character progression with difficulty, and so always need to provide increasingly more powerful adversaries, using all the tools at their disposal (such as unique skills, greater numbers, environmental advantages, scripted behaviours etc) to make encounters varied and tactically interesting. Health point bloat is just one of the less interesting ways to do this.

"RPGs as designed can't create interesting combat. The entire system is just not designed for it."

I must admit I am intrigued by this last statement. Would you mind elaborating on what you mean by this?

#106
Rotward

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In Exile wrote...

Rotward wrote...
They can, you have to think outside the box. Get rid of the dice entirely, and go for the low level DnD scenario. Rely on skill to cover what the dice used to. Create hitboxes for critical strikes, for example. Re-introduce traps and use crowd control to eliminate larger groups of enemies.  


The dice controlled the randomness of the 2-hit and you die nature of combat. It was all just glass cannons with a high miss rate. Crowd control is, moreover, the very epitome of player-AI imbalance, because all the killer AOEs we use are not something the enemy ever uses against us. If they're such extreme killers for a small group, then a very large group with those abilities should massacre our heroes 9 times out of 10. 

Sigh. Way to miss the point. Interesting combat without just "buff enemy health" is the objective here. Not realism. Realism would mean there are no heros, ever. 

#107
In Exile

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Rotward wrote...
 Sigh. Way to miss the point. Interesting combat without just "buff enemy health" is the objective here. Not realism. Realism would mean there are no heros, ever. 


I understand what the objective is - I'm just saying that what you're suggesting, if it feels like low-level D&D play, is not going to be interesting. 

Modifié par In Exile, 31 décembre 2013 - 05:13 .


#108
dragonflight288

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Recycled caves.

#109
Grieving Natashina

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1) Every male LI having an issue. I like Anders, and I like Fenris, but there are times I'm telling them to shut up. I'd love to have a male LI that isn't perfect, but doesn't spend the majority of the time whining about injustice/slavery.

2) Reused environments. I'm not too worried though.

3) The most interesting stories (MotA and Legacy) being DLC

4) Dimly light character creator. Again.

5) Packs of mooks literally falling from the sky. It's a bit tough to get a decent strategy going that way.

6) As stated before, meaningless choices. I don't expect every little choice I make to matter, but the Grace incident is a glaring example. No matter what you do, she's going to bite you in the end.

7) Equipment with awkward stats.

8) Only speaking to your companions at their home. I missed chatting and flirting with my LI while bombing around.

9) Rushed and cliffhanger ending. I know they had more DLC planned, but they should have given the core story more of a concrete wrap up.

10) Set armor for companions. I like equipping my companions with the armor I found along the way. I feel like that gives them more of a look reflecting their journey versus being in the same outfit for literally years.

11) Finally, huge time skips to move the story along. I don't mind seeing "A few months later.." since I know that can allow some story elements to ferment. I was unhappily thrown off when I kept seeing "Three years later..."

#110
Boss Fog

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In Exile wrote...

TelvanniWarlord wrote...
I'm very afraid Bioware is travelling down this route again with DA:I.  In the alpha footage we've seen, the Venatori Gladiator in the keep the party fights has WAY too much health.  It took all 4 party members beating on the guy for a good 6 seconds to kill him.  It's just baffling that gameplay designers always seem to fall back on this repetitive and obselete system of design. 


The reality is that having the player and enemy play by the same rules creates one of two problems: (i) low level D&D play, where a party wipe can happen in seconds because of a few bad dice rolls or (ii) high level D&D play, where you curbstomp everything forever without exceptions. 

RPGs as designed can't create interesting combat. The entire system is just not designed for it. 


Perhaps RPGs today aren't designed for it; but in the next 5 years perhaps if we're still seeing this system in place because of lack of suitable AI; I feel we have a serious problem.  The problems you presented are only issues when enemies aren't properly equipped to deliver a balanced fight.  

1.All this comes back to the use of a combat tracker which I believe is sorely missed in the DA series.  If you payed proper attention to the tracker, you wouldn't have to guess what the enemy is going to throw at you since the tracker would tell you: "adept mage begins casting confusion."  If you're prepared for a devastating CC spell from an enemy and are given proper warning as to what is coming your way, I don't see the problem with having to deal with enemies with similar abilities to the party.

2. High level gameplay should only be challenging depending on the enemy or area in which you are fighting.  You should be able to curbstomp everything in your path save for endgame baddies and bosses.  What's so wrong with enemies having access to dmg absorbtion abilities that the player mysteriously only has access to?  Gameplay designers could also design 'cinematic' or 'environmental' defense situations that would allow the player and enemy AI to use the environment to avoid devastating dmg such as hanging off the edge of a cliff to avoid a seemingly  unavoidable wave of arrows or perhaps if you're simply low on health, you could remove yourself from the fight while a healing spell comes off cooldown. 

3. Eliminating this design of gameplay would bring balance back to where it was lost before: Warriors are actually effective again.  In DA2, you could progress through a vast majority of the game without using Aveline, Carver or Fenris simply because 3 mages and a rogue could do anything a party with a warrior could do better.  You spam CC's and AOE's at the enemy until their massive health pools are widdled down while your puny health pools remain untouched basically completely eliminating the use for a warrior.  

4. As others have said before me, this system of gameplay balance is completely rendered ineffective and unrealistic (by lore standards) when friendly fire is introduced.  To me, it makes the enemies feel like they are part of a completely different game and makes previously useful abilities such as mind control or confusion damn near useless since enemies only do roughly 45 dmg per hit but have 2000+ hit points.  I'm pretty sure BW noticed this issue and introduced a system where party members would still take as much dmg in terms of numbers, but it would only do a fraction of the intended dmg.

I understand that the current system is more than likely very cost effective for balancing gameplay in combat within RPGs.  I do not however think this system will or should last.  Something much more robust and dynamic is sorely needed.  

#111
funmachine

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Mountains upon mountains of random loot with +x health, +x% damage etc.

Waves of enemies spawning out of thin air

Sword animations for maces/mauls/axes (not just a problem in DA2)

#112
Fire Snake

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I'll just keep myself to one little one, and someone already mentioned it, but it was very glaring to me.

Finding a pair of pantaloons or whatever in some random arse place and automatically knowing who to deliver these things to... just... I mean this has got to be the worst implementation of fetch quests I've ever seen. It's not even like it added much content to the game as filler. The game would have been better simply by leaving these out.

#113
daveliam

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Starsyn wrote...

1) Every male LI having an issue. I like Anders, and I like Fenris, but there are times I'm telling them to shut up. I'd love to have a male LI that isn't perfect, but doesn't spend the majority of the time whining about injustice/slavery.


Totally agreed.  While I like that there were two guys for my mHawke to choose from (a big improvement from DA: O), I wasn't thrilled with either of their personalities.  Anders is an obsessed terrorist and Fenris is a broody emo elf who's emotionally detached.  I would rather have a male LI who is like Alistair or Kaidan, neither are perfect, but they aren't full-blown off-putting.

Starsyn wrote...
3) The most interesting stories (MotA and Legacy) being DLC


Yeah, I LOVED these DLC stories, but it does suck that they were only extras


Starsyn wrote...
5) Packs of mooks literally falling from the sky. It's a bit tough to get a decent strategy going that way.


My LEAST favor thing about DA 2.

Starsyn wrote...
8) Only speaking to your companions at their home. I missed chatting and flirting with my LI while bombing around.

10) Set armor for companions. I like equipping my companions with the armor I found along the way. I feel like that gives them more of a look reflecting their journey versus being in the same outfit for literally years.


Agreed 100%

Starsyn wrote...
11) Finally, huge time skips to move the story along. I don't mind seeing "A few months later.." since I know that can allow some story elements to ferment. I was unhappily thrown off when I kept seeing "Three years later..."


I actually really liked this aspect of DA 2.  It's more realistic to think that all of these major changes take place over a series of years (versus months).  Also, I like that it's a clear timeline.  DA: O was unclear about this.  There are several references to time, but it's vague and difficult to figure out what's happening and when it's happening.  That being said, it's slightly unrealistic to think that there aren't major changes in Hawke's friends over that period of time.  It would have been more realistic to have people come and go over time.  I mean, really?  Isabella's still at the same spot at the bar six years later?  And she doesn't have cirrhosis yet?

#114
Angrywolves

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To me it doesn't make sense that it takes several powerful blows of a sword to kill someone.In real life it doesn't take that many to kill an unarmored person.Just one stab wound can kill someone if it's in the right spot.

I guess that the game will play however the developers want it to play.

#115
wright1978

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TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Joseph Warrick wrote...

David Gaider killing your mom and explaining that he decided it should happen regardless of your input because otherwise you would pick the options to save her and miss the drama.

Drama is effective in games if you're involved it, e.g., Mordin's death. You decided to keep the data. You decided to cure the genophage. You convinced Mordin he should do it and helped him make up his mind. You could have saved him - at a great cost, but you could have nevertheless. You are involved in these events. Not saying you are to blame, you're a part of the puzzle. You participated.


God how i hate enforced drama when i don't care and i play my character that same and then my character starts doing something that is out how i played him (or at least wanted) totally kills rp.Besides da 2 driven 99 % drama it was boring as hell most of that was enforced on my character god What a senseless game you end achieving nothing and screwing everything that you touch pretty one of that games that you don't care about anything because it will anyway blow up.  


Agree i hate enforced drama and would far prefer difficult choices in their stead. If scales are properly balanced both choices can be made.

#116
Angrywolves

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Fire Snake wrote...

I'll just keep myself to one little one, and someone already mentioned it, but it was very glaring to me.

Finding a pair of pantaloons or whatever in some random arse place and automatically knowing who to deliver these things to... just... I mean this has got to be the worst implementation of fetch quests I've ever seen. It's not even like it added much content to the game as filler. The game would have been better simply by leaving these out.


The dog finding stuff in DAO was lame.
If there's going to be stuff like that in DAI, we need better stuff to have our dog find.-_-

Killing Hawke's mom was a waste.:whistle:

Modifié par Angrywolves, 31 décembre 2013 - 06:02 .


#117
Melca36

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Enemies materializing from the ceiling.........

http://i1183.photobu...A2.jpg~original



And those Fetch and Deliver quests that made no sense at all :whistle:

#118
BouncyFrag

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Don't forget the non-magical baddies who climb out of solid ground.

#119
nyanyagul

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what i dont want to see in DAI... I dont want to see class equipment restriction, and i dont want to see the inexistance of hybrid classes--->my poor arcane warrior :(, i dont want to see the graphics so basic/blank and the scenarios looking so rushed that even in DAO looked better and more grand, also the scenarios looks so repetitive ex: the mine looks like the same mine in the entire game even when they where suposed to be diferent mines, i dont want too see those darkspawns anymore... the darkspawns in DAO were menacing, but those dudes in DA2 looks lame almost comical, i dont want to see elfs so uglies again, they look like something out of the avatar movie make me want to squeez and pop their eyes, more, i dont want to see magical enemies pooping out of nowhere, also i dont want to keep traveling back and forth in the very same areas again and again, i dont want to see the removal of iconic skills from certain classes like pickpocket from rogues!!! ...and least but not last i want the game to have more decent romance options, the romance character and options in DAO were great, but in the DA2 looks lame... specially what a hell happened to anders!?!??! in DAO awakening he was great but here he looks so lame/emo that  ig ot pleasure in killing him just to get rid of his whining, plz dont bring that kind of characters again... ok thats all i can remember for now... and happy new year!!!

ps: something that they could have changed in DA2 that i disagree in DAO, why are there only one body type per race? ok maybe safe some few chracters like isabella in DA2 and the barman in DAO, couldnt they add more types of boddies surely not everyone is fit/athletic, they should make diferent body types like old, slim, fat, tall, short, muscular, none muscular etc...

Modifié par nyanyagul, 31 décembre 2013 - 07:08 .


#120
Pasquale1234

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In no particular order:

- Hyperspeed combat with OTT animations.  I would prefer it be slow enough to be able to manage the party in real time, without having to pause constantly - or at least have a slider so players can adjust the speed.  Another disadvantage to the hyperspeed combat is that it is nearly impossible to tell which party member is responsible for which amounts of damage to the enemies.

- Highly restricted customization options for companions.  This includes not only armor and weapon choices, but also skill sets.  I don't care about iconic / signature looks or cosplay, so these restrictions add a burden but provide no added value for me.

- Oversized / outlandish looking weapons.

- Redesigns of some species and characters.  When you change their appearance that much from game to game, you wreck the previously established visual identity.  It makes it really difficult to know whether to trust visual cues, and tends to nerf the impact of some of the things you might be trying to accomplish with graphic choices.  In light of the revelations of Awakening, changing the appearance of darkspawn can be interpreted in other ways...

- So much drama / angst / emo / depressing and disturbing events and people in one game.  It got to the point where something like "All That Remains" has little impact, because you get desensitized to the constant loss and suffering.

- If I am to try to roleplay a character, I need to be able to choose the content of what that character will say.  The pre-recorded voice and animations make it impossible for me to choose exactly how they will say it, but being able to choose the exact content would be a vast improvement.

- I'd like to be able to play a female character that does not have a hypersexualized walk / run animation.  As I understand it, PC players were able to use the male animation for their female characters.  If BioWare chooses to continue with such animations for female characters, then I would ask for the ability to swap animations on the console.

- Plenty of accessories (too many, imho), but it was a pain to distribute them since we did not have access to equip the entire party, which necessitated a lot of extra visits to the sparkly horned signposts to swap around party members.

- Also RE accessories and equipment - it is difficult to choose among them because their bonuses are not well explained.  If, for example, a mage has a +10% fire damage, I assume it would include basic attacks with a fire staff and fireballs and firestorms.  I further assume that a warrior using a physical damage weapon would gain nothing from a +10% fire damage accessory unless the party has a mage carrying a fire staff running elemental weapons - but those are just assumptions.

- Nerfed player agency RE pacing (among other things).  I understand the new direction is to present a cinematic story (rather than to allow the player to co-create the story), and part of that formula lies in the pacing - but the reality is that players will take a game story at their own pace.  This isn't a 2-hour movie, it is a 50-hour game, and fighting the game for control of my experience is not something I want to have to do.  I always win that battle, even when it means shutting off the game and reloading so I can start the next set of cutscenes per my own pacing instead of when the game demands it.  It would be much more player-friendly to start new scenes when a player clicks on something instead of when the player enters some area, or completes the previous scene / battle.

- Restrictions on talking with companions.  While I've always enjoyed the special BioWare-flavored companion interactions, having to sit through load screens to visit them to have any dialogue with them was a huge step backward.  Being able to talk to them in places and ways that feel more natural and organic is of vastly greater importance to me than the staged cinematic versions.  I also liked being able to talk with them even when it involved repeating previous dialogue.

There are quite a few other things I could add to the list, but these are some of the more important issues for me.

#121
YuniSticksitDeep

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need to get this out there.

Minus when a mod comes on and deletes or locks a post.

None of what ANYONE is writing here, will EVER make a difference.

Gone FOREVER are the days of the threads (of which I was Part) in Baldur's Gate and Dragons Age Origins.

Bioware exists in Name Only.

Its soul has "left the building" I do not for one second, blame those at BIOWARE.

However; They are LAUGHING at us for all this commiserating on the forums.

All we can do is remember how good Bioware was pre-Console.

Games are NOT made on Consoles, they are made on PC's and PORTED to consoles.

Why no one gets this is so sad.....

But you can't take my WILDLY MODDED helmet removed, VASTLY Improved Dragon's Age Origins from me.

The window from which EA can lean out and say, "Ok Sim City, Off-line mode for  you!", or Dragons Age Fans, Updated Dragons Age Origins style choices for you !!!"    IS CLOSING>>>>>

How will EA be remembered?

How is doing right now?

Can it make a change?

Microsoft added a "start button" back,  it's NOT TOO Late to make things RIGHT.

I hold out little hope for this.

Also those who are "ok" with Kings, and accept what you have PAID for as immutable, this will be lost on you.

Yuni :devil:

#122
Star fury

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Melca36 wrote...

Enemies materializing from the ceiling.........

http://i1183.photobu...A2.jpg~original



And those Fetch and Deliver quests that made no sense at all :whistle:


LMAO, that's DA2 in a nutshell.

#123
General TSAR

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Pasquale1234 wrote...

In no particular order:

- Hyperspeed combat with OTT animations.  I would prefer it be slow enough to be able to manage the party in real time, without having to pause constantly - or at least have a slider so players can adjust the speed.  Another disadvantage to the hyperspeed combat is that it is nearly impossible to tell which party member is responsible for which amounts of damage to the enemies.

- Highly restricted customization options for companions.  This includes not only armor and weapon choices, but also skill sets.  I don't care about iconic / signature looks or cosplay, so these restrictions add a burden but provide no added value for me.

- Oversized / outlandish looking weapons.

x2.

Also the DLC weapons are so awful.

Modifié par General TSAR, 31 décembre 2013 - 09:10 .


#124
XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX

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General TSAR wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...

In no particular order:

- Hyperspeed combat with OTT animations.  I would prefer it be slow enough to be able to manage the party in real time, without having to pause constantly - or at least have a slider so players can adjust the speed.  Another disadvantage to the hyperspeed combat is that it is nearly impossible to tell which party member is responsible for which amounts of damage to the enemies.

- Highly restricted customization options for companions.  This includes not only armor and weapon choices, but also skill sets.  I don't care about iconic / signature looks or cosplay, so these restrictions add a burden but provide no added value for me.

- Oversized / outlandish looking weapons.

x2.

Also the DLC weapons are so awful.


how were the DLC weapons awful?

#125
Grieving Natashina

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I've been playing my first ever Pro-Templar play through *cough* and I noticed a few things as I've been playing in Act 3.

What the hell happened to the male child voices in Kirkwall?  In Origins, I thought (non-possessed) Connor sounded like a perfectly fine pre-teen voice.  In DA2, the boys sounded like they all had almost bass voices.  In one particular scene (during the On the Loose quest), there is the two brothers, one of which named Cricket.  Now Cricket is obviously supposed to be the younger one of the two, but his older brother sounds years younger!  The scene in Act 1 if you help out another kid sounds just as off.  They sound...I don't know, almost half-possessed or something.  That's a feature that can just stay in Kirkwall.

By the way, I don't mind having a nicely set timeframe.  That's fine and actually very welcome.  I just don't like the huge leaps in time in between acts.  I would, however, like to be able to witness a few smaller things, such as the changes of the seasons (at least a little bit) and maybe throw in a major holiday for the PC to take place in.

Here was another thing: Act 1 is far too bogged down with quests.  It just feels like such a sluggish start and even though I know it very well now, it still feels like a drag on the pace of the story.  Act 2's pace I thought was solid (and I love All That Remains.)  Act 3 wasn't bad until after Best Served Cold, which the rushed development really started to show up until the ending.

Oh, and I had honestly thought I'd done a pro-Templar session.  I checked my achievements and turns out I was wrong.  I'm working on that as we speak. :whistle:

I almost feel like a double agent or something.  :ph34r:

Modifié par Starsyn, 31 décembre 2013 - 09:36 .