83 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Agreed.

 

if women and men need different fighting animations warriors, mages and rogues all need personalized unique animations and from there each of the species need unique animations. And who on earth has time to make so many variations for something so trivial.

[Remmirath]

This again? Why is it that people have no trouble believing that the male human character can hold their own against a larger Qunari or ogre or even dragon, but find it hard to grasp that a female character could hold their own against a male character of their own species?

Size, strength, and weight do offer advantages in unarmed combat. I won't deny that. I also won't deny that men are likely to be larger and somewhat stronger. However, that's where it ends. I'm better with weapons than without, and I know I'm capable of winning grappling matches against guys who are a foot or more taller than me (sidenote: I'm 5'2", not fighting giants). Not all of the time, surely, but a reasonable portion of the time (there are people I know about my own size who I have a much harder time against, for that matter), and I see nothing wrong with assuming that the clearly larger and probably stronger PC is much better at it than I am. I don't even spend as much time working out or practicing as I could, because my job eats in to that potential time. I can't paint while fighting. Someone who is a warrior, who does very little other than fight and that for their life rather than interest or a hobby or even money, does not have that problem. For that matter, I've seen smaller people than I take down larger people.

This isn't even unarmed combat, people. It's all combat with weapons. It is quite easy for smaller people to be strong enough to effectively wield their weapons, which is all that you need to do -- the rest of it is skill, speed, and experience. If you are strong enough to get your weapon to do what it needs to do (and all weapons are designed to be good at this, be it a sword or an axe or a hammer), you are strong enough. Weapon weights in games, additionally, are typically quite out of whack with reality. I don't recall what they are in Dragon Age, but realistically a two-handed sword would be from 2-3.5 pounds.

As for height, different heights simply have different advantages. Generally speaking, taller people are at an advantage at further distances, and shorter people are at an advantage closer in. There is nothing unbelievable about a shorter person killing a taller person, particularly when both are armed. It has happened many a time. Does anyone seriously think that, throughout all combats in history, the larger (or even larger and physically stronger) people always won? That the shorter people may or may not be female changes nothing, because even with the (much slighter than people like to make it out to be) differences in body strength, it's easy to be strong enough to effectively wield a sword.

And different animations? Dude, no. There's no reason for that. The wonky walking/idling animations for female characters are bad enough. We need less of that, not more of it.

Now, I am often annoyed by how male characters end up looking strong but female characters don't. That's mostly a different issue, but I suspect more realistic strong physiques on female characters would cut back a bit on people complaining about them not looking like they can wield their weapons. I'm all for female characters looking stronger. That would be great.

Oh, and this is all even leaving aside that there as so many unrealistic things about combat in DA II that I wonder why anybody would jump to "possibly unrealistic that smaller people/women can hold their own against larger people/men in combat!" as their complaint of choice.

The martial arts thing gets thrown around a lot and looks cool in movies/olimpics, but reality is pretty different.

There is a reason why the 101 of proper personal defense is "if you can, flee".

Yeah, the reason is that if you get into a real fight, one or both of the people involved are going to end up injured. At least one will wind up severely injured if it's an all-out fight, and potentially crippled or dead. It's not that one has no chance against larger or better armed opponents (discounting the possibility of a gun) -- it's that it is far better to simply avoid the risk that the odds won't be in your favour or you'll slip up, avoid the wounds you'll incur even if you win, and avoid the jail time you may incur if you win.

And yes, many martial arts moves are flashy and take long enough that they don't get used in actual street fights, but there are also many martial arts techniques that do work well in such situations. You just don't tend to see them in films or games as much, because they are less showy.

[Fishy]

It's fantasy. I doubt you could do what the hero can do in the game either.

[Andre]

I can see all of you people have never met my wife. She's pretty all right, but when her ire is aroused, she breaks walls by staring at them.

[ImperatorMortis]

Ok, so I know this is a sticky topic at best, but being a big fan of the series I have been wondering what is the canonical basis for women in the series being able to fight on par with men? Before the flamers get warmed up--this isn't another rehash of the whole gender roles in Dragon age argument--I'm more curious from a physical standpoint. Isabella, for example, with her bikini-perfect body can't weight more than 120 lbs at best, yet you routinely see her tossing around fully-grown combat-hardened thugs like ragdolls. Same with Aveline, though with her build its slightly easier to swallow. Lelianna same deal.

So are the women in Thedas simply blessed with the same muscular disposition as men? Does their limbic system somehow produce levels of testosterone far above real life females? Magical reasons? Just wondering. Fire away.

 

I kind of agree with this. Atleast give some of the women more muscle especially Cassandra.

[naddaya]

I kind of agree with this. Atleast give some of the women more muscle especially Cassandra.

 

They'd just need to tweak the models according to the character's class. I'd be happy if female warriors looked like Camille Leblanc. That kind of build/strength is attainable without roids, although I wouldn't bet on her being natural

[Amarettibiskits]

If you watched one of the DAI videos, Cassandra smashes down a wooden door super unrealistic for anyone really fast. o.O But then noncombative women are usually portrayed differently and Qunari don't believe women are as fit for combat as men. Sooo short answer is video game physics.

This thread also reminds me of Telltale's Walking Dead. Clementine seems to hit things pretty hard for a little girl. >.<

 

 

To be fair, a male character doing the same things as Cassandra is also unrealistic. These kinds of threads always seem to ignore that video game mechanics are just generally unrealistic, it's just that when male characters are unrealistically strong, people don't really notice. 

[naddaya]

To be fair, a male character doing the same things as Cassandra is also unrealistic. These kinds of threads always seem to ignore that video game mechanics are just generally unrealistic, it's just that when male characters are unrealistically strong, people don't really notice. 

 

The people of Thedas just produce more testosterone and hgh than we do

[Ridwan]

Because video game logic and to not be political incorrect. Just ignore it dude, we shoot out fire from our hands too.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

I think it's good there's no difference between the genders in this area in the game. I don't see a reason for it anyway. A lot of real-life gender inequalities are only perceived.

 

 

Social oppression has not had an influence on women's actual genetics. Training makes someone fit to fight, not evolution of an entire gender.

 

For anyone interested there's a youtube video of a really little woman lifting a larger man onto her shoulders with absolute ease. This was to demonstrate that if there was ever a situation where a female soldier had to carry a wounded male soldier to safety, she could do it. A lot of physical weaknesses in women are perceived, not reality.

 

In any case people love to talk as if men are all super strong. From what I've seen, the average man is soft with a nice little beer gut, so these fantasy notions of strong men and weak women are just that - fantasy.

 

Well I wouldn't call it oppression but I think it kinda should. Like if sexual selection continously favoured the largest and toughest women we would end up with this

 

 

What a wonderful coincidence that all the female (and "monogendered") aliens of the universe in Mass Effect are feminine by human standards to absurdity

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

so stop drooling over vs models and help us evolve goddamnit

[Undead Han]

Strength is a bit overrated anyway. The characters won't be in wrestling matches, they'll be fighting each other with swords, axes, spears (I hope!) ect. ect.

 

Also, thoroughout the entire history of warfare endurance has always been a more important trait than raw strength.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Yea not that kind of strength, but rather how hard and fast you can swing your weapon. Yeah I'm guessing fitness would be major deciding factor, but aren't men supposed to be superior there too? If the police fitness requirements are anything to go by

[Zazzerka]

If the police fitness requirements are anything to go by

 

I've always wondered why the Army (at least in Australia) doesn't come under massive scrutiny for making part of the entry requirements 15 push-ups for men, and only 8 for women.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Because there'd be no women in the army otherwise?  Actually I'm pretty sure I can do 15 press ups though. Anyway I doubt anyone's gotten killed by being able to do 7 less press-ups. What's the difference in the runs? Interestingly I think the police swim requirement is the same for men and women

[stuatley]

it's actually irrelevant for me coz it's DA and a game

[naddaya]

15 pushups should be ridiculously easy for both men and women. Hell, I'd set it at 50 for people who are required to fight. Most people in the army- men or women- won't have to wrestle anyone though.

 

Anyway, the requirements should be the same. Do the same job, meet the same requirements.

[Undead Han]

15 pushups should be ridiculously easy for both men and women. Hell, I'd set it at 50 for people who are required to fight. Most people in the army- men or women- won't have to wrestle anyone though.

 

 

 

I think Zazz was just talking about the initial entry requirements. They are probably a lot lower than the physical fitness requirements for people who are already in the Australian Army.

 

I don't remember what the exact initial entry requirements were when I first joined the Marines, but I do remember that they were less demanding than the minimum standard for the physical fitness test once you were in. I do remember that you had to be able run a mile and a half in a certain amount of time before leaving for boot camp. In boot camp however you ran 3 miles or more, and the PFT (physical fitness test) was a timed 3 mile run. The required number of situps and pullups before you left was also lower than the bare minimum passing requirement for the PFT.

 

I think the initial entry requirements are just to ensure that a person has some basic level of physical fitness that they in theory at least, should be able to handle the first couple weeks of basic training without collapsing from exhaustion. Part of the role of basic training is raising the recruits level of physical fitness.

[naddaya]

I think Zazz was just talking about the initial entry requirements. They are probably a lot lower than the physical fitness requirements for people who are already in the Australian Army.

 

I don't remember what the exact initial entry requirements were when I first joined the Marines, but I do remember that they were less demanding than the minimum standard for the physical fitness test once you were in. I do remember that you had to be able run a mile and a half in a certain amount of time before leaving for boot camp. In boot camp however you ran 3 miles or more, and the PFT (physical fitness test) was a timed 3 mile run. The required number of situps and pullups before you left was also lower than the bare minimum passing requirement for the PFT.

 

I think the initial entry requirements are just to ensure that a person has some basic level of physical fitness that they in theory at least, should be able to handle the first couple weeks of basic training without collapsing from exhaustion. Part of the role of basic training is raising the recruits level of physical fitness.

 

Makes sense if it's before the test, yep.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

PAT here: (new zealand)

 

Male

• Under 20 years: 10 min 51 seconds
• 20 - 29 years: 10 min 15 seconds
• 30 - 34 years: 10 min 50 seconds
• 35 - 39 years: 11 min 30 seconds
• 40+ years: 12 min 15 seconds

Female

• Under 20 years: 12 min 54 seconds
• 20 - 29 years: 11 min 50 seconds
• 30 - 34 years: 12 min 25 seconds
• 35 - 39 years: 13 min 10 seconds
• 40+ years: 14 min 10 seconds

Your vertical jump ability. For men this should be at least 48cm; for women, at least 40cm. The number of correctly executed continuous press-ups you can do. For men this should be 34 or more; for women, 20 or more.

A test of your grip strength which ensures you have the grip and forearm strength to operate firearms and to restrain and handcuff people. For men the combined total of both hands should be at least 96kg; for women, at least 52kg.

 

I was right there's no difference for swimming:

• Swimming 50 metres within 54 seconds.
• Treading water for 5 minutes.
• Duck dive 3 metres to retrieve a rubber brick.

Which I thought was hard as ****.

 

 

It's also interesting that 29 year olds are supposed to perform so much better than a 19 year old.

[Nefla]

People can fly across the battlefield to attack an enemy, shoot one arrow that becomes 1,000 arrows, disappear and reappear in combat, somehow stay attached to a dragon's head while it thrashes around in death throes, etc...with no explanation for any of it and women being the same as men is the unbelievable part...

[Nefla]

No 5' girl expert in martial arts can bring down a 7' giant man expert in martial arts.

No 5' guy expert in martial arts can bring down a 7' giant woman expert in martial arts.

[AshenShug4r]

It seems that people are pretty delusional about the reality of combat. In Thedas it's different, it's a fantasy world and equality should be awarded to both genders.

But let's not pretend that women can compete on the same level as men in the real world(physically). One need only look at the olympics to see the differences.

 

I'm a grappler, and I've women that CAN beat untrained men, but put men and women with the same amount of training together, and the man wins pretty much every time.

 

Men are usually bigger, have higher lung capacity, denser bones and tougher skin. Men evolved as the warriors and providers. That's just how it is.

But this is dragon age - so none of the above should matter. Just don't rationalize it away, cause that's a dangerous attitude.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

holy necromancers