cap and gown wrote...
And this is why I kid. Cuz there ain't no canon.
Until ME4 ships, anyway.
Preparing for my canon playthrough; discussions about certain choices
Débuté par
CosmicGnosis
, déc. 31 2013 05:12
#26
Posté 31 décembre 2013 - 02:19
AlanC9
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Until ME4 ships, anyway.
Retour en haut
#27
Posté 31 décembre 2013 - 04:03
cap and gown
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I would echo and expand on what Michotic said.
You are looking for a decision based Shepard rather than a character based Shepard. I think this puts the cart before the horse. Figure out who Shepard is and then make your choices as they are presented to you based on who that Shepard is.
For instance, Tabitha Shepard was raised on Mindoir and led the assault on the slaver base on Torfan. She is very mission focused and will do what it takes to succeed. If that means committing murder along the way, so be it. She is not evil, but she will let nothing stand between her and succeeding at the mission. If it had come to it, she would have shot Wrex without hesitation. Fortunately, Wrex backed down. She melted the Rachni queen despite Liara's protests because the Rachni have proved to be too big a threat to Galactic security and because they had already been gone for over a thousand years anyway. She had the Alliance focus on Sovereign because that was the real threat. She saved the colony on Feros because she didn't want what happened on Mindoir to happen on Feros. She is not racist, she had an alien lover in ME1, but she is very suspicious of Batarians because of her past. So she killed Balak, sacrificing the hostages because she did not want him committing more acts of terror in the future. She didn't do any of the Cerberus related quests in ME1 so she did not come into ME2 with any prejudice against Cerberus. She will likely save the Collector base but then come to regret her decision once she does Overlord. She let Miranda kill Niket and acquiesced when Miranda insisted it would be better and safer for Oriana if she didn't know about her.
I am not sure what she is going to do about the cure data. Here it is not really about who Tabitha is, but about the scenario I want to see play out in ME3. She is distrustful of Krogan culture in general, but she is loyal to her old team mate Wrex. She will not betray Wrex in ME3. Besides, she knows Wrex is too smart to pull the wool over his eyes and she will not jeopardize Krogan support in the fight against the Reapers. But when it comes to the specific interaction I, not Tabitha, want to see in ME3 I am leaning towards destroying the cure data. This is one case where the decision comes before the character.
You are looking for a decision based Shepard rather than a character based Shepard. I think this puts the cart before the horse. Figure out who Shepard is and then make your choices as they are presented to you based on who that Shepard is.
For instance, Tabitha Shepard was raised on Mindoir and led the assault on the slaver base on Torfan. She is very mission focused and will do what it takes to succeed. If that means committing murder along the way, so be it. She is not evil, but she will let nothing stand between her and succeeding at the mission. If it had come to it, she would have shot Wrex without hesitation. Fortunately, Wrex backed down. She melted the Rachni queen despite Liara's protests because the Rachni have proved to be too big a threat to Galactic security and because they had already been gone for over a thousand years anyway. She had the Alliance focus on Sovereign because that was the real threat. She saved the colony on Feros because she didn't want what happened on Mindoir to happen on Feros. She is not racist, she had an alien lover in ME1, but she is very suspicious of Batarians because of her past. So she killed Balak, sacrificing the hostages because she did not want him committing more acts of terror in the future. She didn't do any of the Cerberus related quests in ME1 so she did not come into ME2 with any prejudice against Cerberus. She will likely save the Collector base but then come to regret her decision once she does Overlord. She let Miranda kill Niket and acquiesced when Miranda insisted it would be better and safer for Oriana if she didn't know about her.
I am not sure what she is going to do about the cure data. Here it is not really about who Tabitha is, but about the scenario I want to see play out in ME3. She is distrustful of Krogan culture in general, but she is loyal to her old team mate Wrex. She will not betray Wrex in ME3. Besides, she knows Wrex is too smart to pull the wool over his eyes and she will not jeopardize Krogan support in the fight against the Reapers. But when it comes to the specific interaction I, not Tabitha, want to see in ME3 I am leaning towards destroying the cure data. This is one case where the decision comes before the character.
#30
Posté 01 janvier 2014 - 12:10
Cknarf
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I wouldn't have entered the Omega 4 relay if I wasn't going to blow some **** up. Destroy that base, man.
#31
Posté 01 janvier 2014 - 12:39
CosmicGnosis
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cap and gown wrote...
I would echo and expand on what Michotic said.
You are looking for a decision based Shepard rather than a character based Shepard. I think this puts the cart before the horse. Figure out who Shepard is and then make your choices as they are presented to you based on who that Shepard is.
My Shepard believes what I believe, and that's the problem. I'm not sure what I would do with the geth heretics and the Collector Base.
#32
Posté 01 janvier 2014 - 12:59
JasonShepard
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The Geth Heretics - this is why I rewrite them:
If I kill the heretics, I am taking away all their future choices. They no longer exist in any form. They can't do anything. THESE ARE EX-HERETIC GETH! (Sorry, I'll stop taking off Monty Python now...)
On the other hand, if I rewrite them, at the very least I now have new allies against the Reapers - and I need as many as I can get. (I've got no way of knowing that the Quarians would be stupid enough to pick a fight at the start of a galactic war...)
They are still alive - I've merely made a single choice for them. I've chosen which side they are on. The rest is still up to them.
Maybe I've condemned them to death by putting them against the Reapers - but, since the alternative is certain death, I don't feel particularly guilty about that. (It's also not like the Reapers would hesitate to brainwash them to their own ends...)
If you view brainwashing as equivalent to killing them, then one choice is to kill them, and the other choice is to kill them and get some new allies.
As far as I can tell, the only reason to destroy them is because you view brainwashing as worse than death. And, while I can understand that perspective, does it really outweigh the potential of new allies in a war against the Reapers?
RE: "Brainwashing is worse than death."
I am, for better or worse, an idealist. Where there is life there is the possibility of recovery. This means that I will always view survival as preferable to death - even among my enemies.
So, yes, I'd brainwash my enemies rather than killing them.
(Though I'd vastly prefer to talk them down, but that isn't an option on the Geth Heretic Base).
If I kill the heretics, I am taking away all their future choices. They no longer exist in any form. They can't do anything. THESE ARE EX-HERETIC GETH! (Sorry, I'll stop taking off Monty Python now...)
On the other hand, if I rewrite them, at the very least I now have new allies against the Reapers - and I need as many as I can get. (I've got no way of knowing that the Quarians would be stupid enough to pick a fight at the start of a galactic war...)
They are still alive - I've merely made a single choice for them. I've chosen which side they are on. The rest is still up to them.
Maybe I've condemned them to death by putting them against the Reapers - but, since the alternative is certain death, I don't feel particularly guilty about that. (It's also not like the Reapers would hesitate to brainwash them to their own ends...)
If you view brainwashing as equivalent to killing them, then one choice is to kill them, and the other choice is to kill them and get some new allies.
As far as I can tell, the only reason to destroy them is because you view brainwashing as worse than death. And, while I can understand that perspective, does it really outweigh the potential of new allies in a war against the Reapers?
RE: "Brainwashing is worse than death."
I am, for better or worse, an idealist. Where there is life there is the possibility of recovery. This means that I will always view survival as preferable to death - even among my enemies.
So, yes, I'd brainwash my enemies rather than killing them.
(Though I'd vastly prefer to talk them down, but that isn't an option on the Geth Heretic Base).
Modifié par JasonShepard, 01 janvier 2014 - 01:03 .
#33
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 01 janvier 2014 - 08:07
Guest_StreetMagic_*
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Control is an entire mentality. Not just with the base. The Heretic decision is a direct correlation, but even small quests like saving Patriarch or letting him die with dignity corresponds with the same mentality. "Aria doesn't destroy what she can use.." It really comes down to how you approach a lot of things (or how your Shepard does, if you will). Not just the Collector base. Have fun with the psychological aspect here. Not just the individual decisions.
#34
Posté 01 janvier 2014 - 08:27
CosmicGnosis
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Steelcan wrote...
Careful who you tell that to, many a Miranda fan will tell you it was a deliberate slightCosmicGnosis wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
No she does not.CosmicGnosis wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
yes you can get around the break up death with Miranda
How? Is it an exploit? Does she acknowledge the breakup?
Simply put, just lock in another romance before you meet her on the Citadel for the third time.
Hmm... I can't help but suspect that this is an oversight.
Can anyone else confirm what Steelcan said? And if so, does this seem like an oversight? I'm not interested in exploiting bugs when it comes to story and characters...
#35
Posté 01 janvier 2014 - 07:21
Tron Mega
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xSTONEYx187x wrote...
StreetMagic wrote...
spirosz wrote...
You should Romance Jack in ME1 to ME3. She's there in ME1, by the way, just gotta search deeper.
You and I think alike.
Jack has no true rival for maleShep, except EDI and Joker.
Do you mean the random "I will destroy you" from biotics? Or is there some sort of Jack easter egg?
jack is in ME1 because bioware plans ahead.
#36
Posté 01 janvier 2014 - 07:38
justafan
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CosmicGnosis wrote...
cap and gown wrote...
I would echo and expand on what Michotic said.
You are looking for a decision based Shepard rather than a character based Shepard. I think this puts the cart before the horse. Figure out who Shepard is and then make your choices as they are presented to you based on who that Shepard is.
My Shepard believes what I believe, and that's the problem. I'm not sure what I would do with the geth heretics and the Collector Base.
It is a tough call. My Shepard's usually destroys them. ME1 left a bad taste in his mouth towards the Geth, and he hasn't known Legion long enough to truly believe they could become reliable allies (the way I play I always end up having to do the derelict reaper and heretic station in quick succession to avoid losing the crew). And in my opinion, I think it is better to let them die having chosen the wrong side through free-will, then to brainwash them and make them slaves to the orthodox geth. Also, it is a case of better safe than sorry, if some Geth could be convinced to join the Reapers once, it could happen again.
Alternatively, your Shepard may see them as potential allies more than mine did. It also depends on how wrong you think brainwashing is when it is used to save a life. I've had Shepards like that. And if you want to metagame, think about who you want to have more survivors in ME3, if you think Quarian/Geth life is more valuable, even if you make peace, what you choose with the heretics impacts survivors for both factions. And if you plan to destroy, then destroy the heretics, because the Geth are all going to die anyways and might as well save a few more Quarians.
#37
Posté 01 janvier 2014 - 11:18
xSTONEYx187x
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Tron Mega wrote...
xSTONEYx187x wrote...
StreetMagic wrote...
spirosz wrote...
You should Romance Jack in ME1 to ME3. She's there in ME1, by the way, just gotta search deeper.
You and I think alike.
Jack has no true rival for maleShep, except EDI and Joker.
Do you mean the random "I will destroy you" from biotics? Or is there some sort of Jack easter egg?
jack is in ME1 because bioware plans ahead.
Yeah, Jack "easter egg" made no sense considering it's the first game. What is spirosz talking about though? Search deeper?
Modifié par xSTONEYx187x, 01 janvier 2014 - 11:18 .
#38
Posté 06 janvier 2014 - 06:38
CosmicGnosis
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Why does Miranda die when you break up with her? Is she so distraught that she can't properly defend herself?
... This is kind of annoying. Miranda can't handle a break-up? Really? What about all that IPartner stuff from her Shadow Broker Dossier?
... This is kind of annoying. Miranda can't handle a break-up? Really? What about all that IPartner stuff from her Shadow Broker Dossier?
Modifié par CosmicGnosis, 06 janvier 2014 - 06:50 .
#39
Posté 06 janvier 2014 - 08:41
AlanC9
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CosmicGnosis wrote...
... This is kind of annoying. Miranda can't handle a break-up? Really? What about all that IPartner stuff from her Shadow Broker Dossier?
Those weren't relationships. Just services rendered.
#40
Posté 06 janvier 2014 - 09:02
Fixers0
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On a related note, I'm complety unable to start another decent Mass Effect playthrough, the series really dried up for me, I just can't even find a suitable name for my Shepard anymore, that's how far gone it is.
#41
Posté 06 janvier 2014 - 11:47
nos_astra
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Of course, no woman can survive without a man. Not even women that we were supposed to perceive as strong, smart, independent and self-reliant.CosmicGnosis wrote...
Why does Miranda die when you break up with her? Is she so distraught that she can't properly defend herself?
Then again, the whole squad in ME2 lost focus without someone taking care of a distracting problem for them.
Modifié par klarabella, 06 janvier 2014 - 11:50 .
#42
Posté 06 janvier 2014 - 09:03
FlyingSquirrel
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Regarding the heretics, like JasonShepard said, the lack of a diplomatic option or even a possibility to communicate with the heretics at all makes it tricky. My canon Shepard, for example, is an idealist and ended up going with rewrite. For one thing, every time she tries to understand exactly how geth consciousness works and how all this would actually affect both the heretics and Legion's geth, Legion asserts that she isn't quite grasping it. She's uncomfortable with the notion, fearing that it would be equivalent to brainwashing, but she also isn't sure if her own assumptions and perspectives are relevant given what she's hearing from Legion. So, given her own incomplete understanding of the situation, she basically decides to err on the side of not killing rather than killing.
#43
Posté 06 janvier 2014 - 09:10
DeinonSlayer
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For me, the heretic decision is simple.
They chose to do this? ALL of them?
Yes.
Blow them up.
Justice is served.
They chose to do this? ALL of them?
Yes.
Blow them up.
Justice is served.
Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 06 janvier 2014 - 09:13 .
#44
Posté 06 janvier 2014 - 09:18
AlanC9
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Why wouldn't rewriting them serve justice too?
Modifié par AlanC9, 06 janvier 2014 - 09:18 .
#45
Posté 07 janvier 2014 - 01:46
DoomsdayDevice
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You might want to take into consideration the things your companions say about rewriting the heretics. See if you can relate to what they have to say...
----
Jack: Wow, great choices. Genocide or Brainwashing. If you screwed with my head, made me nod and smile at everything, I'd rather you blew my head off. Let me die as me.
Jacob: Changing their personality is the same as killing them...who they are is gone.
Kasumi: Either way, the Heretics are wiped out. Killed or remade. What is the difference?
Garrus: That sounds dangerously close to Indoctrination, unless there is something i am missing. Maybe this is how AIs settle religious disputes.
Grunt: Kill them or pull their teeth, what's the difference? They're killed both ways. Take away their fighting spirit, what else matters?
Samara: Either way, what makes these Geth individuals, dies. If you change who someone is, how they think, you have killed them. They will be something new in the same body.
Thane: There is no moral difference between the two. If you change who the Heretics are, you have "killed" them...killed their perspective.
Shepard: I wouldn't brainwash an organic race, I can't see treating the Geth differently.
----
As far as destroying or keeping the Collector base goes, this is what Shepard says upon destroying it:
Shepard: I'm going to win this war, and I'll do it without sacrificing the soul of our species.
----
Jack: Wow, great choices. Genocide or Brainwashing. If you screwed with my head, made me nod and smile at everything, I'd rather you blew my head off. Let me die as me.
Jacob: Changing their personality is the same as killing them...who they are is gone.
Kasumi: Either way, the Heretics are wiped out. Killed or remade. What is the difference?
Garrus: That sounds dangerously close to Indoctrination, unless there is something i am missing. Maybe this is how AIs settle religious disputes.
Grunt: Kill them or pull their teeth, what's the difference? They're killed both ways. Take away their fighting spirit, what else matters?
Samara: Either way, what makes these Geth individuals, dies. If you change who someone is, how they think, you have killed them. They will be something new in the same body.
Thane: There is no moral difference between the two. If you change who the Heretics are, you have "killed" them...killed their perspective.
Shepard: I wouldn't brainwash an organic race, I can't see treating the Geth differently.
----
As far as destroying or keeping the Collector base goes, this is what Shepard says upon destroying it:
Shepard: I'm going to win this war, and I'll do it without sacrificing the soul of our species.
Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 07 janvier 2014 - 02:26 .
#46
Posté 07 janvier 2014 - 02:21
SwobyJ
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(This is a bit late but..
I also haven't read some of the rest of the thread)
-Yes you can romance someone else. Steel said how to get around the issue with Miranda. If you don't want to deal with that hassle (if you see it as a hassle), sure go with Jack (she does soften up a bit after all) or Tali.
~~~
-I don't usually rewrite them, but as they are AI, I honestly don't see the huge fuss over it. It's literally how they do things. Is it brainwashing? From organic perspective, totally. We'd have to leave that perspective a bit in order to decide. Legion is getting unsure, but why? Because he's starting to take the organic perspective, and it is troubling him.
Whatever stand you take, don't worry SO much about it, but understand that rewriting DOES make Shepard 'less ME1 Shepard' than he was before, imo. At least if it follows a pattern.
Mechanically/story-wise in other things, Rewriting means more Geth made it to ME3, and they killed more Quarians. So if you pick Quarians, you get less of em. If you pick Geth, you get more of em. If you pick Peace, you get more overall, as there are more Geth than Quarians.
It's on the other end with destroying the heretics. The Geth do not gain numbers, the Quarians do not lose numbers, and Peace still gives a high number of assets, though less than if you Rewrote.
The idea is that Blue sided things carry more danger (even to your *well-meaning* 'soul', but also in the sense of danger to others), yet give more reward if you handle it more precisely, I believe.
While doing Red sided things carry less danger outside of the immediate fight, give less reward, but keep your 'soul' intact - yet also might turn your mind into more of a psychopath
Pick your morality/decision. The ME2 crew is pretty overwhelmingly (with a few exceptions) pro-Destroy of Heretics, but the game gives you options and potential rewards anyway.
~~~
-Overt story-wise, obviously, keeping the Base means the 'brain' was intact, allowing more computational power to be harnessed and more EMS from securing the Human-Reaper, I think.
Destroying the Base means only the 'heart' was intact, still serving as a power source but I think gives less EMS.
-Mechanically, the bigger effect is if you've done a Low EMS playthrough. If you're low (forget the number, and it depends on EC too) and picked to keep the base, you get Low Control only (in literal view of story, it means that the Crucible has the extra brainpower to Control Reapers even if it isn't an ideal Crucible).
If you picked to destroy the base, you instead get Low (or even less) Destroy. (AKA you got more juice to fry the Reapers)
There MIGHT be a specific EMS range where you can still get Low Control PLUS Low Destroy available. There is no way to have Devastating Destroy (the 'worst' normal result) and anything else available at the same time for sure though, only Low.
This makes Control technically the safest option at the time, depending on your EMS, but Destroy the most 'powerful' at the time, if you get enough EMS for the Breath Scene. There's no danger in Control, even Low Control, of something like Devastating Destroy, which totally looks Dark Age for everyone
-The whole 'grow your own Reaper' thing was one of the following:
a)Dropped. Like, outright. Just people scared about what TIM will do.
b)Half-implemented, like most of the results of fears about TIM (ex. Oh he indoctrinated soldiers! ...but just into his ranks, and they already volunteered..so... - that kinda thing). He does use the Reaper Brain for his own use, and Cronos Station could very well be turned into a Reaper itself if TIM was given more of a chance with it, but... yeah, that's it.
c)Personal funcrazy theory (partial IT, part much more) is that yes, the Crucible does in fact act as a power source of a Mega Reaper (or in Hyperion terps, the 'Ultimate Intelligence' to unseat the current 'Intelligence'), and our journey in ME3 is really just the warping of space, time, and memory as this computer gets going and making its decision about where the galaxy should go, guided by Shepard's choice and containing a virtual galaxy inside it.
As such, yes, technically TIM wants to 'grow his own Reaper', but not in the way we understand at first. His ultimate goal would be to gain the computational power to reach all Reapers, and spread his influence to all of them via this tech, and ensure human dominance forever in the galaxy.
Anyway, I think it is MUCH more fitting to destroy the base. It lays a more true smackdown over Harbinger than otherwise, and I truly do regard anything Collector-wise to be an abomination that is even worse than Reaper tech in itself. It should NOT be the tech line we go down, even to stop the Reapers (key word 'stop', not kill or destroy).
Also, a blue radiation wave is more meh in emotional effect. At the same time, it can be seen as a 'smarter' story, so again, take that blue wave if you want!
I also haven't read some of the rest of the thread)
-Yes you can romance someone else. Steel said how to get around the issue with Miranda. If you don't want to deal with that hassle (if you see it as a hassle), sure go with Jack (she does soften up a bit after all) or Tali.
~~~
-I don't usually rewrite them, but as they are AI, I honestly don't see the huge fuss over it. It's literally how they do things. Is it brainwashing? From organic perspective, totally. We'd have to leave that perspective a bit in order to decide. Legion is getting unsure, but why? Because he's starting to take the organic perspective, and it is troubling him.
Whatever stand you take, don't worry SO much about it, but understand that rewriting DOES make Shepard 'less ME1 Shepard' than he was before, imo. At least if it follows a pattern.
Mechanically/story-wise in other things, Rewriting means more Geth made it to ME3, and they killed more Quarians. So if you pick Quarians, you get less of em. If you pick Geth, you get more of em. If you pick Peace, you get more overall, as there are more Geth than Quarians.
It's on the other end with destroying the heretics. The Geth do not gain numbers, the Quarians do not lose numbers, and Peace still gives a high number of assets, though less than if you Rewrote.
The idea is that Blue sided things carry more danger (even to your *well-meaning* 'soul', but also in the sense of danger to others), yet give more reward if you handle it more precisely, I believe.
While doing Red sided things carry less danger outside of the immediate fight, give less reward, but keep your 'soul' intact - yet also might turn your mind into more of a psychopath
Pick your morality/decision. The ME2 crew is pretty overwhelmingly (with a few exceptions) pro-Destroy of Heretics, but the game gives you options and potential rewards anyway.
~~~
-Overt story-wise, obviously, keeping the Base means the 'brain' was intact, allowing more computational power to be harnessed and more EMS from securing the Human-Reaper, I think.
Destroying the Base means only the 'heart' was intact, still serving as a power source but I think gives less EMS.
-Mechanically, the bigger effect is if you've done a Low EMS playthrough. If you're low (forget the number, and it depends on EC too) and picked to keep the base, you get Low Control only (in literal view of story, it means that the Crucible has the extra brainpower to Control Reapers even if it isn't an ideal Crucible).
If you picked to destroy the base, you instead get Low (or even less) Destroy. (AKA you got more juice to fry the Reapers)
There MIGHT be a specific EMS range where you can still get Low Control PLUS Low Destroy available. There is no way to have Devastating Destroy (the 'worst' normal result) and anything else available at the same time for sure though, only Low.
This makes Control technically the safest option at the time, depending on your EMS, but Destroy the most 'powerful' at the time, if you get enough EMS for the Breath Scene. There's no danger in Control, even Low Control, of something like Devastating Destroy, which totally looks Dark Age for everyone
-The whole 'grow your own Reaper' thing was one of the following:
a)Dropped. Like, outright. Just people scared about what TIM will do.
b)Half-implemented, like most of the results of fears about TIM (ex. Oh he indoctrinated soldiers! ...but just into his ranks, and they already volunteered..so... - that kinda thing). He does use the Reaper Brain for his own use, and Cronos Station could very well be turned into a Reaper itself if TIM was given more of a chance with it, but... yeah, that's it.
c)Personal funcrazy theory (partial IT, part much more) is that yes, the Crucible does in fact act as a power source of a Mega Reaper (or in Hyperion terps, the 'Ultimate Intelligence' to unseat the current 'Intelligence'
), and our journey in ME3 is really just the warping of space, time, and memory as this computer gets going and making its decision about where the galaxy should go, guided by Shepard's choice and containing a virtual galaxy inside it.As such, yes, technically TIM wants to 'grow his own Reaper', but not in the way we understand at first. His ultimate goal would be to gain the computational power to reach all Reapers, and spread his influence to all of them via this tech, and ensure human dominance forever in the galaxy.
Anyway, I think it is MUCH more fitting to destroy the base. It lays a more true smackdown over Harbinger than otherwise, and I truly do regard anything Collector-wise to be an abomination that is even worse than Reaper tech in itself. It should NOT be the tech line we go down, even to stop the Reapers (key word 'stop', not kill or destroy).
Also, a blue radiation wave is more meh in emotional effect. At the same time, it can be seen as a 'smarter' story, so again, take that blue wave if you want!
#47
Posté 07 janvier 2014 - 02:34
CrutchCricket
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Romance: Miranda throughout or bust. Othewise if you're going to go for Liara (which you can technically do in all games if you have Shadow Broker) why bother with an ME2 romance? The time gap and circumstances between ME1 and ME2 making moving on to a new relation more plausible. Not so much between ME2 and ME3 (or worse ME2 and Shadow Broker)
Heretics: Rewrite. If the True Geth are on your side and they'll fight the Reapers, you're going to want to make your allies stronger. Plus if they're stronger it might keep the quarians from getting too uppity. Never mind that Bioware ignored all of this with the stupid geth-quarian war, all reasoning made without meta-gaming. The ethics of the matter are overstated I think as the geth have no strong feelings one way or another (no feelings at all actually). Either way you're obliterating the heretics from existence. Might as well get something out of it.
Collector Base: Destroy it. TIM can't be trusted and apparently Shepard's too dumb to secure it for himself. Lesser of two evils.
And even though you didn't ask on this one, for God's sake destroy the graybox. Do your part to keep Kasumi from going full emo.
Heretics: Rewrite. If the True Geth are on your side and they'll fight the Reapers, you're going to want to make your allies stronger. Plus if they're stronger it might keep the quarians from getting too uppity. Never mind that Bioware ignored all of this with the stupid geth-quarian war, all reasoning made without meta-gaming. The ethics of the matter are overstated I think as the geth have no strong feelings one way or another (no feelings at all actually). Either way you're obliterating the heretics from existence. Might as well get something out of it.
Collector Base: Destroy it. TIM can't be trusted and apparently Shepard's too dumb to secure it for himself. Lesser of two evils.
And even though you didn't ask on this one, for God's sake destroy the graybox. Do your part to keep Kasumi from going full emo.
#48
Posté 07 janvier 2014 - 02:34
SwobyJ
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cap and gown wrote...
What is a canon playthrough?
I'll get arguments against this, but there is a more true canon. It's not what I play even, so hold ur horses
True canon is what is:
a)Shown more in adverts (with yes, some exceptions)
b)What is default to next game (with yes, some exceptions)
Unlike Dragon Age, Mass Effect is harder to pin down. For example, ME3 starts with a lot of deaths in a default playthrough, yet Citadel DLC has lots of content related to characters who could have died in ME2 or before (Wrex, Thane even).
So despite what I said earlier... it is case to case. There is no 'canon playthrough', just some decisions that are 'more canon' just because Bioware is designing later content to more assume one way than the other.
Picked Anderson? Too bad, Udina comes into power in ME3 regardless. As such, picking Anderson is a more temporary effect tha the story 'snaps away from' later on.
Things like Genophage Arc and Rannoch Arc are more varied. In these cases, I don't think there really can be a more canon, but if I was forced to decide, it'd be the Full Cure for Genophage, and Full Peace for Rannoch, if only because it seemed special emotional content was developed for both.
For the final choice, I'd say that the Breath Destroy is the most canon, YET elements from the other choices, if any sequel happens based on these choices, WILL be important and an aspect of things. I think they made all choices very relevent and not so weighted in every way (I think each ending has a part of the truth,
), but Destroy is only more canon (barely) just for the shot of Shepard in rubble, which yes, I still think in important.In ME1 and ME2 this was much more clear. ME3 seems designed to avoid 'canon' much more than before, except for how weird it can be to betray on Tuchanka while there's a whole Shroud elevator setpiece to use, or have Tali commit suicide. Those.. yeah, don't seem right.. for a 'hero'
#49
Posté 07 janvier 2014 - 02:40
SwobyJ
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isnudo wrote...
I'd say keep the base. I said it in another thread, but it's the only way the Cerberus arc in ME3 makes any sense. It's a bit of a blatant handwave when you destroy the base and get told that Cerberus somehow accomplished the same stuff by studying what tiny scraps of it remained somehow. Honestly you're better off just ignoring the squaddies' opinions on the matter as well. Legion and Mordin make sound arguments for why you should keep it, then turn around and say you shouldn't have kept it, and everyone else's arguments for destroying it are pretty illogical.
Personally I think then best way to go when deciding how a playthrough will go is to just establish what kind of Shepard you're going for. If they're Paragon, Renegade, a mix of the two, what their ideals and opinions on certain matters are, blah blah, and then just go with whatever choices suit the character. That was my favourite way of doing it, every other Shepard just felt like an extra to see how certain choices play out.
Keeping the base makes more sense for TIM, consistency from squadmates, and the closer-to-morally-grey approach ME2 liked to occasionally take.
Destroying the base makes more sense for MOST Shepards (except those intentionally very pro-Cerb) and the more action-space-opera-hero-blow-up-robots story set up from ME1 onwards.
If I were to make more concrete judgements, I'd say keeping the base is more appropriate for new ME2 players who didn't do ME1 so they're more familiar with TIM than Anderson or Hackett, but destroying it keeps true to the 'destroying' nature of a Shepard lasting since ME1.
Modifié par SwobyJ, 07 janvier 2014 - 02:42 .
#50
Posté 07 janvier 2014 - 02:46
SwobyJ
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cap and gown wrote...
I would echo and expand on what Michotic said.
You are looking for a decision based Shepard rather than a character based Shepard. I think this puts the cart before the horse. Figure out who Shepard is and then make your choices as they are presented to you based on who that Shepard is.
For instance, Tabitha Shepard was raised on Mindoir and led the assault on the slaver base on Torfan. She is very mission focused and will do what it takes to succeed. If that means committing murder along the way, so be it. She is not evil, but she will let nothing stand between her and succeeding at the mission. If it had come to it, she would have shot Wrex without hesitation. Fortunately, Wrex backed down. She melted the Rachni queen despite Liara's protests because the Rachni have proved to be too big a threat to Galactic security and because they had already been gone for over a thousand years anyway. She had the Alliance focus on Sovereign because that was the real threat. She saved the colony on Feros because she didn't want what happened on Mindoir to happen on Feros. She is not racist, she had an alien lover in ME1, but she is very suspicious of Batarians because of her past. So she killed Balak, sacrificing the hostages because she did not want him committing more acts of terror in the future. She didn't do any of the Cerberus related quests in ME1 so she did not come into ME2 with any prejudice against Cerberus. She will likely save the Collector base but then come to regret her decision once she does Overlord. She let Miranda kill Niket and acquiesced when Miranda insisted it would be better and safer for Oriana if she didn't know about her.
I am not sure what she is going to do about the cure data. Here it is not really about who Tabitha is, but about the scenario I want to see play out in ME3. She is distrustful of Krogan culture in general, but she is loyal to her old team mate Wrex. She will not betray Wrex in ME3. Besides, she knows Wrex is too smart to pull the wool over his eyes and she will not jeopardize Krogan support in the fight against the Reapers. But when it comes to the specific interaction I, not Tabitha, want to see in ME3 I am leaning towards destroying the cure data. This is one case where the decision comes before the character.
Great post!!!
Bioware I think really likes this approach, even if they can't provide substantial consequences for such custom experiences very often.
I feel they have a more basic outline, which may or may not lead to more Para or Rene, then they outright create the Para and Rene paths to things, then figure out the nuances, interactions between choices, more minor outcomes, Investigation scripts, etc.
There is a path to take if you want to be 'more as Bioware first made the game', but by the time the final product is out, there's not just one path, but 2+ legit paths to take for things and still follow the main line of story. And that doesn't even count all the customized mini-paths off the beaten one.
