109 réponses à ce sujet

[Phoenixblight]

RyuKazuha wrote...

Actually Tali carries a knife with her all the time. She never uses it, though. And even silent assassin Thane relates on pistols or literal hand to hand combat.

Not sure about the Tali comment never seen a knife or looked. But the Thane comment is just a CG trailer that Burr made that's not in game.

[DPSSOC]

There's a simple reason there are no Melee weapons, balance. In order to make melee weapons effective they'd need to make early armor and shields powerful enough that players could easily close the distance and begin the slashy. This boost given to allow closing to melee range would render guns useless. So you have guns not doing nearly as much damage so people can use swords, people stop using guns, and all the work the company put into the shooting aspect is wasted.

[Schneidend]

DPSSOC wrote...

There's a simple reason there are no Melee weapons, balance. In order to make melee weapons effective they'd need to make early armor and shields powerful enough that players could easily close the distance and begin the slashy. This boost given to allow closing to melee range would render guns useless. So you have guns not doing nearly as much damage so people can use swords, people stop using guns, and all the work the company put into the shooting aspect is wasted.

Or just make the melee button upgradeable and not change anything else? This is pretty simple stuff.

[VettoRyouzou]

Case this isn't starwars and ME doesn't need space Samurai.

[Akiada]

So it would seem Swords, as long as they aren't moving at hyper velocities, won't be stopped by shields. And people don't wear as much armour as well. So, Swords would seem to be effective, should one be able to get close. Seems difficult, doesn't it?

You're assuming a sword would have ease in penetrating futuristic armor. Given that the lack of protection by slow moving objects presented by kinetic barriers, it's very likely that the armor is designed both to resist mass driver weapon (with the softer parts of armor - like kevlar fibers in modern body armor) with the harder parts of the armor doubling as ballistic plate (ala modern ballistic plate) as well as protection against local wildlife who aren't firing mass driver weapons at you. Hell, even the softer aspects may be stab/slash resistant - we have "knife proof" clothing today.

For all we know a sword could easily end up glancing away harmlessly.

Oh yeah. Vanguard have Charge. That would close the distance quickly.

Why can't we get swords or bayonettes?

Because it'd require a lot of work for the only class with the ability to get in close without getting ventilated?

Every class gets something special, but no class gets to have something that would require a complete re-design of the entire combat system.

So if we have a weapon which the enemy is not protected against, and the limited range is not a hinderance, why, logically, do we not use them?

Except the Vanguard has other weapons the enemy isn't protected again. Namely the non physical ones.

Like his ability to throw them into the cieling really, really hard.

I have no idea why one would pick up an ancient, outmodded weapon when you can carry both modern firearms of great effectiveness and come equiped with implants and a genetic mutation that leaves you capable of tossing men around like toy soldiers.

[Verenti]

DPSSOC wrote...

There's a simple reason there are no Melee weapons, balance. In order to make melee weapons effective they'd need to make early armor and shields powerful enough that players could easily close the distance and begin the slashy. This boost given to allow closing to melee range would render guns useless. So you have guns not doing nearly as much damage so people can use swords, people stop using guns, and all the work the company put into the shooting aspect is wasted.

You're thinking outside the lore. There are plenty good gameplay reasons not to have Melee weapons, sure, but not within the story.

Chained_Creator wrote...

Verenti wrote...

Chained_Creator wrote...

Verenti wrote...
So
if we have a weapon which the enemy is not protected against, and the
limited range is not a hinderance, why, logically, do we not use them?

Because there's no industry there to support them?

And
that, if armor was so prominent only a short time ago, the industry
already in place to manufacture armor capable of stopping the melee
weapons not currently producable in large quantities would
significantly decrease profit potential of jump-starting the industry?

The
Normandy II seems to have a matter complier able to fabricate enemy
designs with only a scan. Surely you could design a sword or a knife
and have it replicate it, or find a jagged piece of metal. Or have one
custom built.

But it becomes useless once the enemy
realizes that you, the player and person out to kill them, are using
melee weapons. They can purchase armor of sufficient quality to defend
themselves for a relatively low "financial-cost" to themselves and a
low "time-cost" because the industry already exist to produce high
quality armor to defend yourself.

You, however, have a higher
"time-cost" and "financial-cost" than the enemy does because your
product is speciliazed and more difficult to acquire and the industry
does not exist.

If you're going after people who are too poor to afford a set of armor, then I really just need to stop talking.

I would prefer if everyone was wearing armour again, but they're not. And its absurd to thing that the same system than can mass produce enemy weapons on the fly, with complex mechanisms and such, can't make a sharp piece of metal. And the industry exists: I'm sure kitchens still exist in the ME universe.  Also the per-unit cost of swords or knives or bayonets would be considerably cheaper than heavy armour, due to the amount of electronics and smart materials that have to go into the construction of each unit. A blade is at its heart, a sharp piece of metal. It doesn't have to be a monofilament blade, it doesn't have to be a laser sword, It just has to be something sharp I can jam into someone neck or face or other poorly armoured location.

Military tactics have always been about hitting people where they're not protected. If I have to force my enemies to wear armour, then atleast they're loosing mobility to cover up that obvious flaw, I would be dumb not to exploit that weakness in until they do though.

Modifié par Verenti, 20 janvier 2010 - 10:50 .

[BlaiseVoltaire]

Why no swords?

Because the game takes place in the future in a universe where swords will be even less practical than they are in modern combat.

Modifié par BlaiseVoltaire, 20 janvier 2010 - 10:50 .

[The_11thDoctor]

I'd bring out a katana every once in a while to slice thru Geth . heck a sword with a blade of energy forge thru Biotics would be cool too.

[Schneidend]

VettoRyouzou wrote...

Case this isn't starwars and ME doesn't need space Samurai.

Why not address the reasonable requests regarding melee instead of spewing hyperbole?

All we need are upgrades to the already existent melee button. If melee weapons seem so absurd, why is it okay to punch an enemy?

Modifié par Schneidend, 20 janvier 2010 - 10:52 .

[Mox Ruuga]

armass wrote...

who the hell uses swords in the middle of a gunfight? And yes, this is not anime or star wars. There are no lightsabers.

It's starting to get closer and closer tho...

Who knows what "improvements" await us in ME3?

[Cerbin aep Dol Blathanna]

Verenti wrote...

Why are there no Melee weapons?

I know "Melee weapons!? This is the future!", but lets take a look at this.

Shield tech has apparently gotten so good that people like Miranda don't have to wear real armour anymore.
In ME: Ascension, we learned that objects moving slowly enough don't trigger the shields, that's why patting someone on the back doesn't trigger them. Someone dies in a knife fight early on because of this.

So it would seem Swords, as long as they aren't moving at hyper velocities, won't be stopped by shields. And people don't wear as much armour as well. So, Swords would seem to be effective, should one be able to get close. Seems difficult, doesn't it?

Oh yeah. Vanguard have Charge. That would close the distance quickly.

Why can't we get swords or bayonettes?

For if there would be any melee weapons, along with above explaination, it would be ripped directly from Dune.

[VettoRyouzou]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

armass wrote...

who the hell uses swords in the middle of a gunfight? And yes, this is not anime or star wars. There are no lightsabers.

It's starting to get closer and closer tho...

Who knows what "improvements" await us in ME3?

To be frank I thought it was Retarded in ME1 it only came useful during the Thorian part after that I shot and killed overall it a pointless and worthless idea.

Live with it.

[Grumpiergoat]

There are no melee weapons in the game because they'd be frickin' stupid. By the time some idiot with a sword advances on a guy with shields but no armor, the guy with the sword will probably have long since been splatted to pieces by gunfire from the shielded guy.



And based on the videos, there are a lot of robots that Shepard fights. Good luck beating on them with a melee weapon.



At "best" it might be useful to put a bayonet on some weapons. For the most part, though, only a moron would run around with melee weapons. Krogan are the one, possible exception and they overpower most other races to such a degree that they may as well stick to their hands or pistol whipping people.

[Verenti]

Grumpiergoat wrote...

There are no melee weapons in the game because they'd be frickin' stupid. By the time some idiot with a sword advances on a guy with shields but no armor, the guy with the sword will probably have long since been splatted to pieces by gunfire from the shielded guy.

And based on the videos, there are a lot of robots that Shepard fights. Good luck beating on them with a melee weapon.

At "best" it might be useful to put a bayonet on some weapons. For the most part, though, only a moron would run around with melee weapons. Krogan are the one, possible exception and they overpower most other races to such a degree that they may as well stick to their hands or pistol whipping people.

Shepard currently runs around with five guns strapped to his back. Why is it so unreasonable to swap one of those out for a knife? I never said that one should fight with only a sword or a knife, I asked why no one uses a knife on the unarmoured people.

[Schneidend]

Why is it that in every one of these threads it degenerates into people thinking those who want melee weapons want to completely disregard guns and run around slashing things apart with katanas?



Detractors of melee weapons neither bother to refute the good points made by reasonable proponents of melee weapons, nor do they ever address the fact that the lore and the mechanics of the game support it the inclusion of melee weapons.



For the third time now I will state that there is already a melee button that punches enemies, and all I want is for that button to be upgradeable, or at least be more than a simple punch.

[KillTheLastRomantic]

I wouldn't mind just a combat knife, it wouldn't be out of place like a big ass sword or anything. With limited ammo (?) in ME2 it could have its uses. Plus, the mass effect wiki says Tali has a knife strapped to her boot, although I've never noticed it.

[Caion]

Don't bring a knife to an ice gun fight.

[Phoenixblight]

Schneidend wrote...

Why is it that in every one of these threads it degenerates into people thinking those who want melee weapons want to completely disregard guns and run around slashing things apart with katanas?

Detractors of melee weapons neither bother to refute the good points made by reasonable proponents of melee weapons, nor do they ever address the fact that the lore and the mechanics of the game support it the inclusion of melee weapons.

For the third time now I will state that there is already a melee button that punches enemies, and all I want is for that button to be upgradeable, or at least be more than a simple punch.

They were going to have a haymaker attack with holding the melee attack but they removed because they felt it was useless.

[Schneidend]

Phoenixblight wrote...


They were going to have a haymaker attack with holding the melee attack but they removed because they felt it was useless.

I'm pretty sure you're incorrect. The haymaker is still in as far as I know. Adrien Cho used it to kill a Blue Sun merc in a recent gameplay video.

[Phoenixblight]

Schneidend wrote...

Phoenixblight wrote...


They were going to have a haymaker attack with holding the melee attack but they removed because they felt it was useless.

I'm pretty sure you're incorrect. The haymaker is still in as far as I know. Adrien Cho used it to kill a Blue Sun merc in a recent gameplay video.

Chris stated it a few weeks ago that it was infact removed. Adrian CHo could have easily been playing a dated build.


Source:

meforums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html

Modifié par Phoenixblight, 20 janvier 2010 - 11:21 .

[Caion]

Schneidend wrote...

Why is it that in every one of these threads it degenerates into people thinking those who want melee weapons want to completely disregard guns and run around slashing things apart with katanas?

Not quite true. I think proponents of melee weapons want to run around with spiky yellow hair and giant buster swords and fight against long silver-haired men in trench coats carrying katanas twice as big as their bodies.

[Grumpiergoat]

Verenti wrote...

Shepard currently runs around with five guns strapped to his back. Why is it so unreasonable to swap one of those out for a knife? I never said that one should fight with only a sword or a knife, I asked why no one uses a knife on the unarmoured people.

And like I said, strapping a bayonet on some of the guns wouldn't be completely out of line. But for the most part, no. It'd be pointless. You can already sock someone with your gun. There's really not much need to add more than that.

Particularly based on the comment in a book. That seemed to concentrate on patting someone on the shoulder, rather than rapidly thrusting or slashing at someone with a weapon, that still might be blocked by shields.

[hangmans tree]

This is one of my minor gripes with ME from the beginnig. Even in modern warfare (not the game) an army knife is substantial to any troop in the field..for various reasons...(and...seen starship troopers? )
It would be nice if it was done in Republic Commando way - close quaters fight, where theres no room to pull the trigger.
And with ME technology some kind of molecular blade should be simple to develop...and I'm talking about short blades/knives - swords or katanas wouldnt do well in corridors and such.

Modifié par hangmans tree, 20 janvier 2010 - 11:20 .

[Scharfschutzen]

Verenti wrote...

Why are there no Melee weapons?

I know "Melee weapons!? This is the future!", but lets take a look at this.

Shield tech has apparently gotten so good that people like Miranda don't have to wear real armour anymore.
In ME: Ascension, we learned that objects moving slowly enough don't trigger the shields, that's why patting someone on the back doesn't trigger them. Someone dies in a knife fight early on because of this.

So it would seem Swords, as long as they aren't moving at hyper velocities, won't be stopped by shields. And people don't wear as much armour as well. So, Swords would seem to be effective, should one be able to get close. Seems difficult, doesn't it?

Oh yeah. Vanguard have Charge. That would close the distance quickly.

Why can't we get swords or bayonettes?

Interesting idea.  It really reminds me of the Dune series of novels, and how people had to use melee weapons because kinetic barriers could stop any projectiles going over  a certain speed. 

[Schneidend]

Phoenixblight wrote...
Chris stated it a few weeks ago that it was infact removed. Adrian CHo could have easily been playing a dated build.

Hm, a terrible shame. I'm not sure why they didn't just make it faster, improve its damage, give it more knockback, or all three.

Caion wrote...

Not quite true. I think proponents of
melee weapons want to run around with spiky yellow hair and giant
buster swords and fight against long silver-haired men in trench coats
carrying katanas twice as big as their bodies. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/kissing.png[/smilie]

I want to do that in REAL LIFE. I'd kill for Cloud's implacable hair gel, too. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

But, seriously. I just want a combat knife or a hatchet with a molecular blade, or a set of kinetic barrier knuckle dusters if the animationmust be a punch for simplicity's sake.

EDIT: Formatting on the social site is really being a jerk to my posts.

Modifié par Schneidend, 20 janvier 2010 - 11:27 .