284 réponses à ce sujet

[Fredward]

It's a tool, like any other. Apparently it grows in power the more the person "offering" suffers but even without any suffering (ie a donation) or taking your own blood it's still more powerful than regular magic. I see no problem with its use. It's abuse though is obviously another matter.

EDIT:

Also, that comic was hilarious.

Modifié par Foopydoopydoo, 01 janvier 2014 - 06:31 .

[Rotward]

rasloveszev wrote...

 For those who have decided to side with the Mages, what are your views on Blood Magic?

I'm curious to know how divded y'all are on the subject of Blood Mages.

It's wrong to use someone elses blood, using your own is fine, if silly. "Hmm, I need to kill a bandit, better stab myself."

As with all powers, tools, and skills: blood magic isn't be inherintly evil. It's how it's used that counts. 

[Sifr]

You know, I never understood the whole deep stabbing of the hand thing with the murder knife part. Surely you'd end up ruining your hand, especially if you ended up severing some tendons in the process? How would you cast then?

How deep does the cut even have to be as well?

Wouldn't it make more sense to simply have say, a blade attached near the middle of a staff that a Blood Mage could use to slice their palm? Draw, slice and cast... surely that would be much faster?

Modifié par Sifr1449, 01 janvier 2014 - 06:57 .

[andy6915]

Sifr1449 wrote...

You know, I never understood the whole deep stabbing of the hand thing with the murder knife part. Surely you'd end up ruining your hand, especially if you ended up severing some tendons in the process? How would you cast then?

How deep does the cut even have to be as well?

Wouldn't it make more sense to simply have say, a blade attached near the middle of a staff that a Blood Mage could use to slice their palm? Draw, slice and cast... surely that would be much faster?

As I said, blood mages have regenerative powers that can heal damage. Any wound they inflict to draw their own blood is healed.

[Rotward]

Sifr1449 wrote...

You know, I never understood the whole deep stabbing of the hand thing with the murder knife part. Surely you'd end up ruining your hand, especially if you ended up severing some tendons in the process? How would you cast then?

How deep does the cut even have to be as well?

Wouldn't it make more sense to simply have say, a blade attached near the middle of a staff that a Blood Mage could use to slice their palm? Draw, slice and cast... surely that would be much faster?

What I don't get is why they don't just stab the enemy and use THEIR blood. We know that blood mages can use other people's blood. Why the fetish for stabbing themselves? 

Modifié par Rotward, 01 janvier 2014 - 07:00 .

[SgtSteel91]

Rotward wrote...
 What I don't get is why they don't just stab the enemy and use THEIR blood. We know that blood mages can use other people's blood. Why the fetish for stabbing themselves? 

Hell, Reavers can consume the lifeforce/blood/whatever of their foes to get back health, and it's basically Blood Magic for warriros. Why can't Blood Mages do that as well?

Modifié par SgtSteel91, 01 janvier 2014 - 07:28 .

[Sifr]

andy69156915 wrote...

As I said, blood mages have regenerative powers that can heal damage. Any wound they inflict to draw their own blood is healed.

They heal by drawing lifeforce from other people, not themselves.

Where has it been stated that Mages have an innate healing factor?

Modifié par Sifr1449, 01 janvier 2014 - 07:37 .

[andy6915]

Sifr1449 wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

As I said, blood mages have regenerative powers that can heal damage. Any wound they inflict to draw their own blood is healed.

They heal by drawing lifeforce from other people, not themselves.

Where has it been stated that Mages have an innate healing factor?

No where... Directly anyway. But Hawke's mother was actually turned into a corpse made of multiple people and blood magic actually made those parts heal together to be a whole person. Blood mages constantly stab themselves and show no further injury afterward. So right there we have instances of blood mages in canon using their powers to literally regenerate body mass in ways to actually attach body parts together in a way that they actually become part of the body. That is comic book levels of regeneration right there, and it's canon. I've even heard tell of blood mages literally regenerating lost limbs using blood magic.

Check this thread, it's where I got the idea that they do indeed regenerate. Especially this post from that thread-

http://social.biowar...ndex/16496097/1

"Given you don't actually need Demons to learn blood magic, the real reason the Templars are against it is because it makes the Mage something they can't control. Their measures to control Mages no longer work on a blood mage. Damage they deal to a blood mage will heal. Blood mages can regrow limbs, and survive deadly penetration by arrows and swords. Study of blood magic improves the mages body, making them more
resilient and healthy - less weak. Templars like the physically and magically weak mage that can't overcome their resistances, dispels and silences. Blood magic, properly applied and fully studied can overcome all the Templar's efforts. Add to that the fact that blood magic offers you a new resource, frees you from the constricts of lyrium and empowers your spells . ."

I'll admit there are no links and codexes I have personally found that confirm it, but all the pieces fit.

Modifié par andy69156915, 01 janvier 2014 - 08:14 .

[Lord Raijin]

Blood magic is just another art of magic, and a tool that can be used. I don't even have a problem with it, even when it comes to mind control. If it's ok for Templar's dispel mana from mages leaving them defenseless then why can't a mage control their minds? It goes both ways really.

As a pro-mage I am also pro Blood magic.I don't believe that it's evil or sinister. The Chantry can stick their opinions up where the sun doesn't shine.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Never touched the stuff, that was more of an 80's time period where everyone was trying crazy stuff at the parties.

[andy6915]

By the way, you want something that would and Templars head's explode? Tranquil can do blood magic. All making them tranquil does it cuts them off from the fade to stop them from doing magic, but blood magic doesn't rely on the fade or mana. Of course a tranquil would probably not have any will or care to use it thanks to being emotionally dead, BUT THEY COULD.

[Sifr]

andy69156915 wrote...

No where... Directly anyway. But Hawke's mother was actually turned into a corpse made of multiple people and blood magic actually made those parts heal together to be a whole person. Blood mages constantly stab themselves and show no further injury afterward. So right there we have instances of blood mages in canon using their powers to literally regenerate body mass in ways to actually attach body parts together in a way that they actually become part of the body. That is comic book levels of regeneration right there, and it's canon. I've even heard tell of blood mages literally regenerating lost limbs using blood magic.

I assumed that their healing from the massive amounts of bloodloss was merely a gameplay mechanic, like why you don't keep walking around with arrows in your head.

I agree that Harvesters are strange constructions and still we have no idea how they are created aside from something to do with blood magic, but I doubt that regeneration is as simple as that.

After all, Leliana's Song pointed out that cutting hands off Mages to stop them casting is essentially the best way to render them harmless whilst you torture them. If they could simply go Blood Mage and grow their hands back, wouldn't this be the first thing they tried?

Check this thread, it's where I got the idea that they do indeed regenerate. Especially this post from that thread-

http://social.biowar...ndex/16496097/1

"Given you don't actually need Demons to learn blood magic, the real reason the Templars are against it is because it makes the Mage something they can't control. Their measures to control Mages no longer work on a blood mage. Damage they deal to a blood mage will heal. Blood mages can regrow limbs, and survive deadly penetration by arrows and swords. Study of blood magic improves the mages body, making them more
resilient and healthy - less weak. Templars like the physically and magically weak mage that can't overcome their resistances, dispels and silences. Blood magic, properly applied and fully studied can overcome all the Templar's efforts. Add to that the fact that blood magic offers you a new resource, frees you from the constricts of lyrium and empowers your spells . ."

I'll admit there are no links and codexes I have personally found that confirm it, but all the pieces fit.

It seems like fanon to me, since we've had no indication of them doing anything like that. That is such a powerful range of abilities that it'd have surely have been mentioned long before now in the games or in the codex.

By the way, you want something that would and Templars head's explode? Tranquil can do blood magic. All making them tranquil does it cuts them off from the fade to stop them from doing magic, but blood magic doesn't rely on the fade or mana. Of course a tranquil would probably not have any will or care to use it thanks to being emotionally dead, BUT THEY COULD.

Wait, Tranquil can do Blood Magic, even though they are made Tranquil often because they are Blood Mages? Wouldn't that'd be like lobotomising criminals and letting them continue to carry guns afterwards? I suppose you've essentially stopped them from wanting to do anything malicious, but it seems like a pretty big flaw if they were still able to access those powers.

Apologies for all the nit-picking, friend, it all just seems a bit of a stretch to me.

Modifié par Sifr1449, 01 janvier 2014 - 08:44 .

[Ieldra]

Blood magic is a kind of magic. Like with all tools, it is morally neutral. Actions done with it can be good or bad.

If I'm willing to incinerate someone, why should I balk at mind-control? Disabling someone by temporary mind-control is even a non-lethal alternative. The possible abuses of mind-control are truly frightening, but if it's bad or not is situational. 

If I'm going to kill bandits anyway, why would I balk at capturing them instead and using their blood to power my magic? I'd never do this to people who haven't attacked me or aren't already condemned to death, but otherwise I don't see a problem.

The problem with blood magic is that its combined abuses are of the kind "make others your tools at no cost to yourself". This can give one unscrupulous individual the power of an army - or even more dangerous, the power of a secret army if mind-control is used well. Blood magic is not intrinsically evil, but to ban blood magic on pragmatic grounds is as understandable as banning certain kinds of weapons in the real world.

I still oppose the Chantry and their blanket condemnation, because their motivations are less than beneficial and grounded in an anti-magic ideology. The Chantry forbids blood magic because they say it's evil and because they fear mages using it would more easily escape their control. Also, blood magic should be studied exactly because it is necessary to fight its abuses, and because its used to summon demons, it must be studied to make magic safer for mages and find some protection against possession.

So I'm going to study it with certain of my characters, and the Chantry can stick its ban where the sun doesn't shine. I do not accept the Chantry as legitimate authority in anything, and in magic least of all.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 01 janvier 2014 - 09:02 .

[Grieving Natashina]

Blood magic strikes me as the quickest way to compromising ones sense of self. It's like a slippery slope down the road of rationalization that can eradicate any sense of honesty. It's addictive and leads to many dangers.

I personally see it a lot like heavy drugs: Some can be career users and have long lives, such as Ozzy Osborne and Lemmy Killmeister. Most however, burn out in a blaze not too long after they start using it. It may have been useful for them in some way, but the toll is too high.

I feel for anyone that has hit the point where Blood Magic is their only way out. I don't give a flip what the Chantry says about blood magic anymore than I care what DARE said about drugs in real life. I've seen first hand what it can do to others and that's enough for me to stay away.

To each their own, but if your ways hurt my loved ones, there will be hell to pay.

[andy6915]

Sifr1449 wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

No where... Directly anyway. But Hawke's mother was actually turned into a corpse made of multiple people and blood magic actually made those parts heal together to be a whole person. Blood mages constantly stab themselves and show no further injury afterward. So right there we have instances of blood mages in canon using their powers to literally regenerate body mass in ways to actually attach body parts together in a way that they actually become part of the body. That is comic book levels of regeneration right there, and it's canon. I've even heard tell of blood mages literally regenerating lost limbs using blood magic.

I assumed that their healing from the massive amounts of bloodloss was merely a gameplay mechanic, like why you don't keep walking around with arrows in your head.

I agree that Harvesters are strange constructions and still we have no idea how they are created aside from something to do with blood magic, but I doubt that regeneration is as simple as that.

After all, Leliana's Song pointed out that cutting hands off Mages to stop them casting is essentially the best way to render them harmless whilst you torture them. If they could simply go Blood Mage and grow their hands back, wouldn't this be the first thing they tried?

Check this thread, it's where I got the idea that they do indeed regenerate. Especially this post from that thread-

http://social.biowar...ndex/16496097/1

"Given you don't actually need Demons to learn blood magic, the real reason the Templars are against it is because it makes the Mage something they can't control. Their measures to control Mages no longer work on a blood mage. Damage they deal to a blood mage will heal. Blood mages can regrow limbs, and survive deadly penetration by arrows and swords. Study of blood magic improves the mages body, making them more
resilient and healthy - less weak. Templars like the physically and magically weak mage that can't overcome their resistances, dispels and silences. Blood magic, properly applied and fully studied can overcome all the Templar's efforts. Add to that the fact that blood magic offers you a new resource, frees you from the constricts of lyrium and empowers your spells . ."

I'll admit there are no links and codexes I have personally found that confirm it, but all the pieces fit.

It seems like fanon to me, since we've had no indication of them doing anything like that. That is such a powerful range of abilities that it'd have surely have been mentioned long before now in the games or in the codex.

By the way, you want something that would and Templars head's explode? Tranquil can do blood magic. All making them tranquil does it cuts them off from the fade to stop them from doing magic, but blood magic doesn't rely on the fade or mana. Of course a tranquil would probably not have any will or care to use it thanks to being emotionally dead, BUT THEY COULD.

Wait, Tranquil can do Blood Magic, even though they are made Tranquil often because they are Blood Mages? Wouldn't that'd be like lobotomising criminals and letting them continue to carry guns afterwards? I suppose you've essentially stopped them from wanting to do anything malicious, but it seems like a pretty big flaw if they were still able to access those powers.

Apologies for all the nit-picking, friend, it all just seems a bit of a stretch to me.

I didn't say Harvester, I said Hawke's mother. You know, when she was decaptitated and her head placed on a body made of a bunch of other woman to look like a crazy blood mage's dead wife?

And their healing can't be just gameplay. Remember this scene?


Merril got stabbed and was fine in the cutscene afterward. Cutscene isn't gameplay.

Modifié par andy69156915, 01 janvier 2014 - 09:26 .

[Hellion Rex]

Veruin wrote...

Mmmm, according to the WoT, pain and suffering are needed for it to really gain any power. So, I'd say it's pretty "evil" by default, even if you want to use it for "noble" purposes. It's not like you can just keep the blood from an animal as it's being slaughtered to feed a village and then use that.

We still have the story of the man who cured his wife/lover of a terrible and fatal disease with blood magic, so it can be used nobly. 

Modifié par eluvianix, 01 janvier 2014 - 09:30 .

[Hellion Rex]

In regards to the OP, I only view blood magic as being a tool to augment my spells. Maybe even some blood boiling here or there. But I frown on demon summoning and mind control. Otherwise, I don't support any heavy blood magic except in the most extreme circumstances, such as finding Hawke's mother. In those rare and desperate circumstances, where a person that I care about is in danger, then yes, I will use whatever means I can to help them. Even upper level blood magic. 

Modifié par eluvianix, 01 janvier 2014 - 09:35 .

[berelinde]

As a player, my view on blood magic is that it's a game mechanic. It opens up a skill set - and theoretically, role playing opportunities - that many people enjoy. I say theoretically because we have not seen many instances where this specialization is recognized, so its RP appeal lies in potential, not necessarily in practice. I, myself, do not find the skill set particularly useful for my playing style so I don't bother with it, but some people like it very much.

As a role player, my characters have different attitudes toward it depending on their piety and personal values. My favorite Hawke is a devout Andrastian, despite being a mage, and is filled with self-loathing at the thought that he has the potential to become a blood mage. I never put any points in the skill tree, so his involvement with blood magic is limited to the hypothetical, but it is a source of shame for him. (Basically, I had to choose a second specification and did not wish to duplicate Anders's spirit healing for RP reasons, so that left blood magic).

Another of my Hawkes is much more pragmatic. HIs attitude toward it is rather like Duncan's. He cares more about its practicality and usefulness rather than the state of his soul. I find it inconvenient to have to switch the mode on and off so the protagonist can heal, so I don't bother with it for him, but if it were more convenient to maintain, that character would have no moral objection to its use. The way he sees it, he has the power of refusal. A demon cannot possess him without his willing cooperation, which he will never give.

[Sifr]

andy69156915 wrote...

I didn't say Harvester, I said Hawke's mother. You know, when she was decaptitated and her head placed on a body made of a bunch of other woman to look like a crazy blood mage's dead wife?

And their healing can't be just gameplay. Remember this scene?


Merril got stabbed and was fine in the cutscene afterward. Cutscene isn't gameplay.

Ah, I thought you were talking about Harvesters, that do appear to be able to fuse body parts together. I don't really have much of an answer for how they do that, since they're so little understood even in-universe.

Hawke's mother was more of a walking corpse marionette. Once Quentin died, the magic maintaining her very quickly ran out, showing that Leandra was merely being sustained by Blood Magic, not actually alive. If Blood Magic provided some degree of healing, why would she need stitches to keep her head attached to her neck? She may have been self-aware, but her body was physically dead.

And while Merrill was stabbed in the gut, didn't that cause her to suffer a major health drop in the resulting battle? She didn't magically heal immediately afterwards, she was injured for the rest of that fight?

Modifié par Sifr1449, 01 janvier 2014 - 11:49 .

[Star fury]

Blood magic is just a tool, which can be useful. It's not evil.

[Big I]

rasloveszev wrote...
 For those who have decided to side with the Mages, what are your views on Blood Magic?

I'm curious to know how divded y'all are on the subject of Blood Mages.

A useful tool that should only be used in carefully controlled, regulated ways. Things like the Dark Ritual or Avernus' life-span show the potential benefits of it, but it also incentivises unethical practices (e.g. human sacrifice, mind control). It needs to be policed, if not necessarily by the templars.

[DKJaigen]

Veruin wrote...

Mmmm, according to the WoT, pain and suffering are needed for it to really gain any power. So, I'd say it's pretty "evil" by default, even if you want to use it for "noble" purposes. It's not like you can just keep the blood from an animal as it's being slaughtered to feed a village and then use that.

Any idea how painful burn wounds are? by default elementalist mages are far greater sadist by your own standard .

I consider bloodmagic nothing more then a tool. I consider magic to be corruptive when it somehow influences the thoughts of the wielder.

Modifié par DKJaigen, 01 janvier 2014 - 12:31 .

[Uccio]

Both my canon Warden and Hawke were freedom loving mages who gladly used blood magic. It is just a tool to keep them safe.

[sojurn]

In general, I tend to agree with andy69156915. Blood magic is just a source of power. I think it was mentioned in Origins, the power must come from some where, lyrium or blood.

The problem is, few people just use it moderately. It's so seductive (at least the way it's depicted). As such, my PC's stance on the matter is, it should be a source of power that is allowed, but highly regulated. As to the how, I have no clue.

Everyone here talks about the motive of the person using it. But my impressions from Origins is that the danger of blood magic is that you are closer to the demons to "teach you" and opens you up to become abominations. In the game, our characters are so powerful that we can kill abominations comparatively easily. But the other "normal" people, they get slaughtered.