129 respuestas en este tema

[ThePhoenixKing]

I think I really lost respect for Fenris when I discovered you get Rivalry points with him for not blackmailing Thrask regarding the fact his daughter's a mage... the daughter that just got turned into an abomination and died. Listen, I know he had a hard life, and if nothing else, he has one of the better Freudian excuses I've seen (certainly better than, say, Sera's). But that doesn't give him the right to treat people like his personal punching bags either. Sooner or later, you have to rise above your past, no matter how bad it was, and recognize that even the most terrible of lives doesn't give you carte blanche to be an *******.

[Catilina]

You does not get friendship points for the blackmailing... Fenris is not inhumane.Some mage-rescue mission you get frienship points form him (no, you do not need to kill the magician, in fact). I never blackmailed Thrask just to avoid the Fenris' rivalry, but at the at Act2/Act3 turn i always was on 100% friendship with him. Not too hard, if you play as "good", not "evil" person.

 

But I have written in another topic…

[Abyss108]

I always disliked him because he seemed broody and miserable... Same reason I don't like Anders...

[Catilina]

I always disliked him because he seemed broody and miserable... Same reason I don't like Anders...

He have humour   More than Anders at Act2/Act3...

[Cyrus Amell]

His personal theme song grated my nerves, as did the way he treated Merrill. Varric is the only permanent male party member, not counting Sebastien from his DLC,  who shows her any camaraderie. Sebastien is much nicer, frankly I wish Anders and Fenris showed similar respect to Merrill and her views.

 

Don't get me wrong, a friend is a friend. They can and will have faults you just need to deal with.  

[Lazarillo]

I don't hate Fenris.  He's too flat of a character to really inspire such strong feelings.  I do wish he did more than growl "mmmmmmagic", though.

[Catilina]

Much more.

[Deadly dwarf]

I truly hated Fenris my first run through.  Even after you killed slavers for him and went on all his quests, it seems the rivalry score always went up.  In the final battle, he actually fought against my pro-mage Hawke and I had to kill barefoot anime dude!

 

In my second run-through, I've been more careful about dialogue choices and so far, he's friendly.  (Perhaps it helps that this time my Hawke is a rogue; the first time she was a mage.)  We'll see what happens in the end....

[Catilina]

I truly hated Fenris my first run through.  Even after you killed slavers for him and went on all his quests, it seems the rivalry score always went up.  In the final battle, he actually fought against my pro-mage Hawke and I had to kill barefoot anime dude!

 

In my second run-through, I've been more careful about dialogue choices and so far, he's friendly.  (Perhaps it helps that this time my Hawke is a rogue; the first time she was a mage.)  We'll see what happens in the end....

I did not experience major handicap with a pro-mage mage. Maybe at start. Later so easy got friendship points from him, included mage-rescue quests too.

Spoiler

A critical point is: the Gallows, at the first visit. Here he will talking about the slave sculptures and the Circle. There, if you are in mages' side (and you do not want to lie to him), you gain 20 (or 15?) rival-points. (I never told him, that he wants to hear, when he asked, what i think about mages) These points are definitely lose (except if you NEVER take him to Gallows...), but quickly returns later. (If you reach 100%, you do not lose any more points. This may happen at the beginning of Act3)

[sjsharp2011]

I don't hate Fenris.  He's too flat of a character to really inspire such strong feelings.  I do wish he did more than growl "mmmmmmagic", though.

yeah he's a bit of a flat one I can't asy I like or dislike him really

[vertigomez]

I truly hated Fenris my first run through. Even after you killed slavers for him and went on all his quests, it seems the rivalry score always went up. In the final battle, he actually fought against my pro-mage Hawke and I had to kill barefoot anime dude!

In my second run-through, I've been more careful about dialogue choices and so far, he's friendly. (Perhaps it helps that this time my Hawke is a rogue; the first time she was a mage.) We'll see what happens in the end....

Rivalry going up isn't bad, though. The problem is when people don't bother to max rivalry OR friendship, and you get in the awkward middling zone where betrayals happen.

[Catilina]

Rivalry going up isn't bad, though. The problem is when people don't bother to max rivalry OR friendship, and you get in the awkward middling zone where betrayals happen.

 

A bit hardly but finally successed the rivalry-romance, with Fenris, and that not was bad feeling: I am taking care of one thing to be credible: I did not hurt him, but I did not let him to hurt me. It was really interest and intensive. (with mage ofc.)

[fereldanwench]

I don't hate him, but I never felt like he really worked in DA2's setting. I know in a lot of ways he's supposed to counter Anders perspective on mages and magic, but I think his story, as horrific as it is, is too distant to the overall narrative of mages versus templars in southern Thedas. He's talking about extremes that haven't existed in Kirkwall in ages and about a culture that we has players have only heard about from the outside--I found it often created a bit of a dissonance while presented with a different reality in Kirkwall.

 

I'm not overly fond of his appearance either. I don't feel like it really jives with the world, and although I think Gideon Emery has a fantastic voice, sometimes the brood felt a little over the top.

[Catilina]

I also found strange him. Then I got used to him. And then I loved him.

 

Dont forget: He demonstrate one part of the Tevinter's life. (While Dorian later an other part.)

And so, for example, he could be a reason to support the Templars. (Not to my Hawke...)

And finally, yes. He could be Anders' counterpoint.

 

Ergo: he fits the story. (The Kirkwall's stoy are a presequel, i think.)

[straykat]

 By real, I mean not the typical "He's emo" or "He's an anime character" reason.

The reason why I hate him is because he's so ungrateful to Pro-mage Hawke! I understand he was a slave once, that's why I didn't mind his bigotry towards Mages for Act 1 and Act 2. However, after seven years of Hawke, Bethany, Anders, and Merill healing him AND protecting him from Slavers, he still had his paranoria that all Mages are evil?! And worst, he had the nerve to say "Why are you protecting them, I'll never understand"......MY SISTER'S A MAGE and you people are trying to kill her! His ignorance was too much for me to take. 

 

That's pretty much it.

 

Although I don't even hate him. It just depends on my own characters.

[Ghost Gal]

In general, I don't like what a hypocrite he is. 

 

Keep in mind that I'm largely basing this off his TV Tropes character page.

 

- He claims mages are all dangerous and should be locked up, yet he's a lyrium-infused magical warrior who often goes around leaving a trail of bodies in his wake. (Varric himself even says in DAI that you can find Fenris by "following the bodies"). If he ONLY killed people who were directly hunting him and/or a direct threat to him, I could understand it. But Fenris sometimes snaps and kills people who aren't a threat anymore, like Hadriana in his personal quest after he gave his word to let her live. He's a danger to society too.

 

- As others have pointed out, Fenris loathes slavery for non-mages, yet supports locking up all mages and denying them the rights of others.  (Except Hawke, of course. Even a Rivalry Mage Hawke who goes around kicking puppies and drowning widows and orphans for laughs and using blood magic gets the "I don't think Hawke needs to be locked up" treatment, even if he's just p!ssier about it.) Yeah, you can get him to side with you in the final battle just by pointing out this hypocrisy, but you've got to suffer through this attitude all game.

 

- Fenris looks down on free elves like the Dalish and city elves for "squandering their freedom," when he himself doesn't do anything with his freedom besides squat in an abandoned mansion, get drunk from the wine cellar, and follow Hawke around on meaningless fetch quests.

 

- In some party banter he often rips into Merrill for taking unnecessary risks with the mirror and demon to recover a scrap of their people's lost past. Merrill counters that Fenris himself takes unnecessary risks trying to recover his own past (like trying to get in touch with his sister). The difference is he looks down on her for doing something he does, while she doesn't look down on him for doing something she believes in.

 

- During Mark of the Assassin, Fenris tells Hawke, "You are too willing to involve yourself in the affairs of others, Hawke. Each time you put yourself at risk. In the future you might not be so lucky." Guard what you have, keep your head low." OH REALLY?? Because Fenris doesn't have any problem with Hawke "risking" him/herself by getting involved in FENRIS' affairs. In fact, the whole reason they met was because Fenris asked Anso to hire Hawke under false pretenses, lied to him/her about what the mission was really about (knowing Hawke might have said "no" if s/he knew how many enemies s/he'd have to face), then the whole reason they started traveling together was because after revealing himself and asking Hawke to trust him when he asked for further assistance, Hawke "risks" him/herself by trusting that this isn't a trap and going into the mansion with him. Furthermore, Fenris keeps asking Hawke to risk him/herself further in each personal quest, when he needs Hawke's help to go confront Hadriana or go meet his sister. Fenris is TOTALLY FINE with Hawke "risking" him/herself getting involved in FENRIS' affairs, but other people? Eh, **** 'em. Let 'em rot.

 

- In fact, now that I think on it, Fenris often asks Hawke's help to overcome personal problems, like shaking of Hadriana and Danarius, yet he himself rarely helps others. From what I gather, all he does when he's not traveling with Hawke is squat in his mansion, hit the wine cellar, and work as a mercenary for a little extra coin, no doubt not caring who he kills or beats up. When traveling with Hawke, he's generally indifferent toward others' plight unless they're non-mage slaves like him, and actually tries to discourage Hawke from helping others.

 

He also sneers at Merrill's (supposedly) misguided attempt at helping the elven people by recovering an ancient artifact, yet between the two of them Merrill's actually trying to help their people; Fenris could care less. In fact, in some party banter Merrill asks Fenris why he doesn't come down to alienage to help fellow elves, and he says something like, "I don't need to see it, I lived it." Lived, past tense, but not present tense. Yet, he seems to think that just because he suffered in the past means he shouldn't have to to help people in the present (though he doesn't technically have to), even though it's the kindness and friendship of other people that allows him to live in Hightown. (Hawke for helping him fight off Danarius' hunters, and Varric and Aveline for helping him be able to keep living in his mansion; if they suddenly stopped helping he'd be kicked out of the mansion on his butt and have to keep fleeing southerward from Danarius.) And by DAI, no matter what, Merrill is helping Kirkwall elves, while Fenris is once again on his own leaving a trail of bodies in his wake.

 

Again, Fenris is good at receiving help, but unless it's Hawke he's not good about giving it.

 

Ugh, Fenris is just such a hypocrite on so many levels. And he seems to lack self-awareness about it.

[AutumnWitch]

He's mean to Merrill.  Nuff said.

[Catilina]

In general, I don't like what a hypocrite he is.

[...]

 

Yes, he is somewhat hypocritical. (Who is not?) He hate mages and magic, yes. And uses magical stuffs, yes. (As templars [so: the Chantry] uses the bloodmagic.)

 

But:

He is ashamed to he killed Hadriana.

He refused betrayal Anders.

He able to drop his hatred (sure especially for Hawke, and true: he is still afraid of magic/mages.)

He respect, if you manage to save Ella. (Remember: Ella is a mage!)

 

He does not help anyone? Who knows?

 

So: Fenris not as hyppocrit than for example Sebastian.

 

Hes past not the same as what past researched Merrill (whit a demon's help). Do not forget: Merrill's idea not good according to his own clan and the keeper too!

[Ghost Gal]

Yes, he is somewhat hypocritical. (Who is not?) He hate mages and magic, yes. And uses magical stuffs, yes. (As templars [so: the Chantry] uses the bloodmagic.)

 

But:

He is ashamed to he killed Hadriana.

He refused betrayal Anders.

He able to drop his hatred (sure especially for Hawke, and true: he is still afraid of magic/mages.)

He respect, if you manage to save Ella. (Remember: Ella is a mage!)

 

He does not help anyone? Who knows?

 

So: Fenris not as hyppocrit than for example Sebastian.

 

I'm not talking about Sebastian. I'm talking about Fenris as an individual.

 

(Sebastian's hypocrisy annoys me too, but this isn't a thread for talking about Sebastian. This is a thread for talking about Fenris. Besides, Sebastian's hypocrisy existing doesn't magically reduce my annoyance for Fenris' hypocrisy. They're different characters with different situations and I'm going to judge their situations accordingly.)

 

As an individual, Fenris kind of gets on my nerves both for his hypocrisy and seeming lack of self-awareness of it. He thinks mages should be locked up because their magic makes them dangerous, yet he himself is a dangerous, magic-infused mercenary fighting for freedom. He thinks restricting non-mages' freedom is unforgivable, yet supports restricting mage freedom until the very end of the game (after players have to suffer through hours of his attitude). He sneers at free elves for "squandering their freedom," yet doesn't do much with his own freedom (even after killing Danarius). He scorns Merrill for risking so much to recover something of their people's forgotten history, yet risks so much to recover a bit of his own forgotten past (which she points out; and she at least has the good graces not to judge or dismiss him for the same risks/desires he judges and dismisses her for). He tries to discourage Hawke from risking his/herself by getting involved in other people's affairs, yet is totally fine with Hawke risking his/herself by getting involved in his affairs. He relies on the kindness of Hawke and friends (especially Varric and Aveline) to help keep him safe from Danarius and keep from getting kicked out of Hightown (since Varric helps him forge documents and Aveline has her guards/night patrol look the other way), yet various characters ask him if he's going to help other elves less fortunate than himself (particularly Merrill and Sebastian, who suggest he go down to the alienage and help others elves at different times in different ways) and he never does. 

 

I guess I should add to my original post: Fenris annoys me not just because of his hypocrisy, but because he almost never acknowledges it. Anders gets on my nerves too, but at least he occasionally acknowledges that he's insufferable to others, though mostly in the DLC. (Plus, Anders becomes more obnoxious as he becomes more deranged by Vengeance's influence, while Fenris has no such excuse.)

 

I know everyone's a hypocrite to some degree, but some people are hypocrites in more degrees than others, and some people show more awareness than others. I can personally stomach hypocrisy more if I feel a person/character is self-aware and/or acknowledges and/or tries to overcome it. I don't get the impression that Fenris is particularly aware of nor interested in overcoming his own hypocrisy. (Except for that "side with the mages" part at the end of the game.)

 

Furthermore, Fenris is so damn aggressive, judgmental, and/or dismissive of some companions (Merrill, Anders) and some groups (mages, "free" elves) for some of the same traits or actions that he himself is guilty of (see above), or that he excuses for other groups. (Like going bonkers at the idea of mages restricting non-mage freedom yet being fine with non-mages restricting mage freedom for most of the game.)

 

If Fenris wasn't both so aggressive to others for hypocritical reasons and seemingly unaware of his own hypocrisy, I wouldn't be so annoyed with him. If he was less aggressive/judgmental for traits/actions that he and/or his favored group was guilty of, and/or showed more self-awareness regarding his hypocrisy, I would be less annoyed with him. As he is though? Bleh. Either be nicer to people, Fenris, or acknowledge that bit of sawdust in your own eye.

 

Does that make sense?

[Catilina]

1. I'm not talking about Sebastian. I'm talking about Fenris as an individual.

[...]

2. Does that make sense?

 

1. You have a point

 

You do not need to like Fenris, I was just trying to show some counterpoint. If he annoy you, i can't say anything. He annoyed me too at first, after i wached him from another perspective.

[sniper_arrow]

(Sebastian's hypocrisy annoys me too, but this isn't a thread for talking about Sebastian. This is a thread for talking about Fenris. Besides, Sebastian's hypocrisy existing doesn't magically reduce my annoyance for Fenris' hypocrisy. They're different characters with different situations and I'm going to judge their situations accordingly.)

 

I really like your essays (especially on Jowan and Lily). I'd like to see your POV on Sebastian, if you don't mind.

[Ghost Gal]

1. You have a point

 

You do not need to like Fenris, I was just trying to show some counterpoint. If he annoy you, i can't say anything. He annoyed me too at first, after i wached him from another perspective.

 

Oh, thanks.

 

I'm sorry if that my answers come across as very aggressive. I have really strong opinions and an English background to help me articulate why. 

 

Believe it or not, I don't hate Fenris. In fact, now might be a good time to say my "canon" Hawke in the Keep romanced Fenris. This is just a thread asking "does anyone have a 'REAL' (I'm guessing 'legitimate') reason to hate Fenris?" And I thought, hey, I think mine's pretty legitimate. I don't hate him, but if I did, I think being able to show several instances of him being pretty dang hypocritical counts.

 

I really like your essays (especially on Jowan and Lily). I'd like to see your POV on Sebastian, if you don't mind.

 

Oh, thanks. Again, strong opinions and an English background to help articulate them. Believe it or not, I try to keep my posts brief, but then I often feel like I have to back up all my points with evidence, then explain why my evidence supports my view, and then my posts wind up becoming essays. I'm glad you enjoy reading them, though.

 

I'm sorry, you'll probably be disappointed to learn I don't have a very long-winded reason to hate Sebastian. I just find him annoying on every possible level. His stupid personality, his stupid wishy-washy revenge plot (make up your mind, dude! Are you gonna reclaim your family's throne or not?), his stupid religious zealotry... his stupid hypocrisy preaching peace and love and how wonderful the Chantry is and what a great person Elthina helped him become all game, just to turn around and decide to reclaim his throne just to raise an army to massacre all of Kirkwall just because Hawke wouldn't kill Anders (leading one to wonder why he doesn't just kill Anders himself, or swear vengeance on Hawke as an individual instead of thousands of innocents in Kirkwall), etc.

 

 

I guess I can't really bring myself to care enough to make a long essay explaining why he's annoying because I'd already mentally/emotionally clocked out the second I learned what his "shtick" was. The minute I learned his story was a hybrid of the Warden Cousland's and Leliana's story (young nobleman whose family was slaughtered and usurped by their enemies and now he must avenge them and reclaim his "rightful" throne + reformed sinner who initially joined the Chantry somewhat unwillingly but then grew to love it for real and now won't shut up about how wonderful it is), I thought, "Nope, don't care." I don't like or care about Andrastian human nobility, and I especially don't like or care about the Chantry or its zealous followers. Since Sebastian's entire shtick is those two groups and themes combined (noble playing nobility + preachy religious zealot), I stopped caring before I could even become invested enough to hate the character when he proved to be an insufferable, hypocritical, indecisive, self-righteous, preachy, annoying mother-fucker.

[straykat]

 

 

I guess I can't really bring myself to care enough to make a long essay explaining why he's annoying because I'd already mentally/emotionally clocked out the second I learned what his "shtick" was. The minute I learned his story was a hybrid of the Warden Cousland's and Leliana's story (young nobleman whose family was slaughtered and usurped by their enemies and now he must avenge them and reclaim his "rightful" throne + reformed sinner who initially joined the Chantry somewhat unwillingly but then grew to love it for real and now won't shut up about how wonderful it is), I thought, "Nope, don't care." I don't like or care about Andrastian human nobility, and I especially don't like or care about the Chantry or its zealous followers. Since Sebastian's entire shtick is those two groups and themes combined (noble playing nobility + preachy religious zealot), I stopped caring before I could even become invested enough to hate the character when he proved to be an insufferable, hypocritical, indecisive, self-righteous, preachy, annoying mother-fucker.

 

Well, you could say a lot of stories repeat themselves in some fashion. Broadly speaking, that is. Velanna kinda resembles my Mahariel who kills those hunters in the beginning... and feels the need to make up for it later. City Elf could resemble Fenris, especially if you don't kill Vaughn at first. It kind of reflects Fenris killing those Fog Warriors and turning himself in to Danarius..It's the same sort of powerlessness.

 

Speaking of which, that's something I like about Fenris.. bad as it is. He's always telling Hawke how much they simply don't understand what it's like being a slave or an elf. They don't.

[Catilina]

Oh, thanks.

 

I'm sorry if that my answers come across as very aggressive. I have really strong opinions and an English background to help me articulate why. 

 

Believe it or not, I don't hate Fenris. In fact, now might be a good time to say my "canon" Hawke in the Keep romanced Fenris. This is just a thread asking "does anyone have a 'REAL' (I'm guessing 'legitimate') reason to hate Fenris?" And I thought, hey, I think mine's pretty legitimate. I don't hate him, but if I did, I think being able to show several instances of him being pretty dang hypocritical counts.

Oh, my english are weak enough for writing so long-running discussion. If would not, you could not to get rid from me this soon ...

[SugarBabe49]

I came to not care about him in II - mostly because I don't think he fits in very well (Seriously, if they had made him for Inquisition, He would have been the perfect foil for Dorian since they both came from Tevinter).

 

At first - it was the lying in order for Hawke to help out, that kind of put me on caution. Then it was the subtle threat regarding Bethany being a mage, nope, you keep your filthy claws to yourself.

 

To be honest - I only recruited Fenris for one playthrough and ended up never doing it again. My reasoning for it was that Hawke wanted no trouble with the Templars (especially as a mage) over the presumed Lyrium thus they never got to meet Fenris whatsoever.

 

(I am sincerely glad that I have that option in the Keep, wishing I had the option to say I sent Anders away in the Keep too...)

 

To be honest - Fenris and Anders are really the only two I can't stand in the game (and I romanced Anders the first time round, dropped that pretty quick)