129 respuestas en este tema

[Ghost Gal]

Well, you could say a lot of stories repeat themselves in some fashion. Broadly speaking, that is. Velanna kinda resembles my Mahariel who kills those hunters in the beginning... and feels the need to make up for it later. City Elf could resemble Fenris, especially if you don't kill Vaughn at first. It kind of reflects Fenris killing those Fog Warriors and turning himself in to Danarius..It's the same sort of powerlessness.

 

That's true. They do like recycling stories and character archetypes. 

 

Problem is, the stories and archetypes BioWare seems to like retelling best are the ones I wish they'd lay off for a bit. Despite Andrastian human nobility and the Chantry being my least favorite aspects of Thedas, those seem to get the most attention game after game after game. (Even the so-called mage/Templar conflict is really Andrastian human Circle mages and Templars.) Not for nothing most players say of each game, "It's best to play a human noble / human mage because they have most stake in most of the story." (I personally disagree, but one could make the argument.)

 

So far the majority of companions also seem to be Andrastian humans (except Morrigan and Isabela), with only one or two non-human companions of their race per game. Even then, the one or two elven or dwarven companions (for example) are supposed to be exceptions to their people and/or meant to exemplify how much their cultures suck. For dwarves, Oghren is a ridiculous clown, Sigrun was victimized by Orzammar's strict caste system, and Varric is the cool surface dwarf who despises everything Orzammar. For elves, BioWare just keeps recycling the "city elf who dislikes elven culture" companion, like Zevran (who says things like, "elves plant these trees to symbolize their culture, then ****** on it. Charming symbolism, really,"), Fenris (who looks down on city and Dalish elves, which I've already expressed my distaste for), and now Sera (who is so "F*CK ALL ELVES!" it hurts). They also keep reusing the Dalish mage character (Velanna, Merrill, and Mage Lavellan) whose personal quests and stories are all imbued with middle fingers to the Dalish. 

 

Meanwhile, what do we have on the human end? Honorable "Knight in Shining Armor" characters every game (Alistair, Aveline, Cassandra, DAI Cullen; even Blackwall if you let him pursue redemption), devout Andrastian holy warriors (Leliana, Sebastian, Cassandra and Cullen again), human hedge and Circle mages (Morrigan, Wynne, Anders, Bethany, Vivienne, Dorian, etc), a heavy Andrastian human focus to the mage question (since the focus is always Andrastian human Circle mages and Chantry Templars), and even our two spirit companions all happened to choose human forms (Justice and Cole). 

 

I'm not a fan. I'm sick to death of human nobility and Andrastianism and want to explore other fantastical races and cultures in Thedas (Orzammar, Kal-Sharok, Qunari, Tal-Vashoth, Chasind, Avvar, Rivain, Seheron and Par Vollen, intelligent darkspawn, anything elven, etc), but BioWare's just in love with human nobility and Chantry politics, and they keep making it the focus and the majority of companions every game.

[Catilina]

To be honest - I only recruited Fenris for one playthrough and ended up never doing it again. My reasoning for it was that Hawke wanted no trouble with the Templars (especially as a mage) over the presumed Lyrium thus they never got to meet Fenris whatsoever.

 

 

Whats the problem with Fenris' lyrium mark and the templars? You afraid that the templars will eat him for his fine lyrium?

[straykat]

 

 

I'm not a fan. I'm sick to death of human nobility and Andrastianism and want to explore other fantastical races and cultures in Thedas (Orzammar, Kal-Sharok, Qunari, Tal-Vashoth, Chasind, Avvar, Rivain, Seheron and Par Vollen, intelligent darkspawn, anything elven, etc), but BioWare's just in love with human nobility and Chantry politics, and they keep making it the focus and the majority of companions every game.

 

Well, it's a story of Southern Thedas for now. Not Thedas as a whole.

 

For the most part at least. I'd prefer they'd go even heavier on telling specific types of stories instead of trying to do a little of everything.

 

Just like I would prefer a heavy elf game or a big dungeon crawler with a bunch of dwarves.. like something similar to the Hobbit. I'd also prefer Qunari/Vashoth had their own story, struggling with Tevinter and the Qun...instead of randomly appearing down in Orlais or Ferelden and ruling these human societies, changing their religions, etc.. That's nonsense. The only race besides humans that has a real stake here are the Elves. There's interesting history there with Shartan, the Dales, and the Chantry. It gets clouded though when everyone and their mom is invited to the party. No one would write a novel or movie script like this. So why are games let off of the hook?

[Ghost Gal]

Well, it's a story of Southern Thedas for now. Not Thedas as a whole.

 

But human nobles and the Chantry aren't the only ones in Southern Thedas.

 

For the most part at least. I'd prefer they'd go even heavier on telling specific types of stories instead of trying to do a little of everything.

 

I actually think BioWare's attempts on telling "specific types of stories" are worse than when they tell different stories in one game.

 

I don't think they actually go "deeper" into an issue when they try to devote a whole game to one aspect of Thedas. It remains just as shallow but now long and repetitive. For example, DA2 is just 20 hours of human Circle mages and human Templars bickering back and forth over whether "Magic exists to serve man and never to rule over him!" should be taken literally or figuratively. They don't actually explore any new ground that wasn't already covered in the Broken Circle quest of DAO, they just dragged it out longer and had characters constantly repeating and reiterating the same arguments over and over. (Help mages? They turn out to be blood mages and abominations! Helps Templars? You're assisting abusive tyrants.) Likewise, DAI just keeps questioning whether the Maker is real, whether He gave you the mark, whether He's worth putting faith into over and over and over with no intention of answering any of these questions, until the elf revelations come at the end of the game. 

 

The only reason I was able to enjoy DAO (in hindsight) is it gave fairly equal focus to different aspects of Thedas, so different players could find something they liked. You like elfy stuff? There's a City Elf, Mage Elf, and Dalish origin, plus a decent amount of Dalish and city elf content during the game. You like dwarf stuff? You can play a casteless dwarf and a dwarf commoner, and explore Orzammar and the Deep Roads.

 

DA2? Nope. You're forced to play an Andrastian human, most of your companions are Andrastian humans, and most of the sh!t you run into all game only relates to Andrastian human nobles, mages, and Chantry officials. Like dwarf or elfy stuff? Too bad; you can f*ck an elf but you can't play one, and the only dwarf seen all game is Varric the anti-dwarf and his jerk brother.

 

DAI? Most of the game is about being the head of an Andrastian religious organization so you can restore the shattered Chantry and resolve the Orlesian empire by playing at human politics. The only thing that saved DAI from being so f*cking monotonous to me was all the elfy locations (like the Exalted Plains and Emerald Graves) and quests (like the Knight's Tomb and Dalish clan) and revelations (at the Temple of Mythal, Well of Sorrows, meeting Flemythal, etc) to give the game a little variety.

 

Just like I would prefer a heavy elf game or a big dungeon crawler with a bunch of dwarves.. like something similar to the Hobbit. I'd also prefer Qunari/Vashoth had their own story, struggling with Tevinter and the Qun...instead of randomly appearing down in Orlais or Ferelden and ruling these human societies, changing their religions, etc.. That's nonsense. The only race besides humans that has a real stake here are the Elves. There's interesting history there with Shartan, the Dales, and the Chantry. It gets clouded though when everyone and their mom is invited to the party. No one would write a movie script like this. But games have no shame.

 

I'd like that too, but let's be honest: most players only play human nobles, and BioWare's only going to cater to their interests, not ours.

 

I'd also love it if we had a whole game dedicated to what it's like being Qunari/Tal-Vashoth, or a whole game exploring the interesting history of Shartan, the Dales, and other elfy stuff; but it's not gonna happen. It's not gonna happen unless the writers can make it all about humans. Which they already did with the Temple of Mythal--originally intended as a DA2 DLC with the human protagonist Hawke, later moved to DAI with the human-only protagonist until (shock of shocks) an elf protagonist was added last minute. Originally it would have been only a human protagonist with a human Eluvian expert (Morrigan) and the human avatar of an elven god (Flemeth) to make all these discoveries of the elven heritage, history, culture, and decide the fate of the elven people. And which you'd better bet your buttons they're doing for the next game.

 

I'm not even going to pretend BioWare will ever make a whole game focusing on the kind of stuff I want, so I'd rather ask that they include more elfy and dwarfy and Qunari stuff in their games about human nobles and Chantry worshipers playing their game of thrones.

[straykat]

DAO at least had the excuse of a neutral story: The blight and the Grey Wardens.

 

Even the name "Grey" and the disinterested attitude of Duncan just kind of welcomes... and at the same time.. doesn't stand for anything.

 

 

But not every story should be that way. Not everyone is a Warden and not everything is a Blight. And if you keep repeating that, then you've made the world SMALLER. Not larger. It's a very generic theme, that was suitable for an intro to the series.

 

And even when they did do that, at least we got to see Orzammar. Instead of this half-assed surface dwarf stuff, running the Chantry. There's no dwarven story here. It's just a story of a meddler.

[Ghost Gal]

Maybe not every story can be the Grey Wardens or the Blight (then again, with the intelligent darkspawn...), but that doesn't mean there can't be other stories that involve more than just one group of people per game. Not every story should be just that of one or two groups of people all game (like Andrastian human Circle mages vs Chantry Templars in DA2, Andrastian human Inquisition vs Chantry in DAI) with all other people in Thedas visibly hanging back waiting till the next story can about them. Not every game should be just that of the human nobility or Chantry playing their game of thrones all game, every game is my point. 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Maybe not every story can be the Grey Wardens or the Blight (then again, with the intelligent darkspawn...), but that doesn't mean there can't be other stories that involve more than just one group of people per game. Not every story should be just that of one or two groups of people all game (like Andrastian human Circle mages vs Chantry Templars in DA2, Andrastian human Inquisition vs Chantry in DAI) with all other people in Thedas visibly hanging back waiting till the next story can about them. Not every game should be just that of the human nobility or Chantry playing their game of thrones all game, every game is my point. 

 

The human nobility part annoys me as well. I would actually be interested in playing as a human if they gave us human commoners.

[straykat]

Maybe not every story can be the Grey Wardens or the Blight (then again, with the intelligent darkspawn...), but that doesn't mean there can't be other stories that involve more than just one group of people per game. Not every story should be just that of one or two groups of people all game (like Andrastian human Circle mages vs Chantry Templars in DA2, Andrastian human Inquisition vs Chantry in DAI) with all other people in Thedas visibly hanging back waiting till the next story can about them. Not every game should be just that of the human nobility or Chantry playing their game of thrones all game, every game is my point. 

 

Well, I don't want them to be all Andrastian either. You mistake me. And if they are human, there's plenty of variety just in that too, depending on the culture.. or the city.

 

I just like more focus..whatever it may be. There's plenty of time for all kinds of stories. We don't have to do everything all at once.

 

 

I think it might do some good too, for giving some unpopular choices a spotlight. DAO had less than 5% of dwarf players according to Bioware. And DAI's top played option is human rogue then warrior and mage. Then elf options. But if they made a dwarf or qunari centric story, they might get people into them more. Just a thought.

[Aren]

Well, it's a story of Southern Thedas for now. Not Thedas as a whole.

 

Northern Thedas is intrinsically tied with the chantry from the Anderfels to Tevinter which has the imperial chantry.

The chantry is a central focus of the setting since the whole premise of the Maker,the old gods (which are all inspired from hebrew and christians angels except for Toth), the golden city,the darkspawn,the grey wardens are all intrinsically tied to each other and work  in harmony well enough on their own.

 

 

 

I'd also love it if we had a whole game dedicated to what it's like being Qunari/Tal-Vashoth, or a whole game exploring the interesting history of Shartan, the Dales, and other elfy stuff; but it's not gonna happen. It's not gonna happen unless the writers can make it all about humans. 

Dragon age is built upon ideas driven and influenced from in real world concepts and constructs.

As such what kind of allure do these "non human" races possess?

They are just humans under another skin.

[straykat]

 

Northern Thedas is intrinsically tied with the chantry from the Anderfels to Tevinter which has the imperial chantry.

The chantry is a central focus of the setting since the whole premise of the Maker,the old gods (which are all inspired from hebrew and christians angels except for Toth), the golden city,the darkspawn,the grey wardens are all intrinsically tied to each other and work  in harmony well enough on their own.

 

I know that.. but I mean you can tell stories without revolving around all of these Global Power games too. Even within a human area.

 

If it was up to me, I could have fun just playing some thug on the streets of Denerim.. and the whole story was just about you and your friends planning a heist. Or a dungeon crawl in Kal Sharok. Or some Vashoth village on the outskirts of Tevinter.. where your community is pressured by both Tevinters and Qunari.

 

But if they are going to be epic Global power games, then I'd prefer the protagonist fitting that too. Instead of being some bum discovered in a ditch.

[Ghost Gal]

The human nobility part annoys me as well. I would actually be interested in playing as a human if they gave us human commoners.

 

Not me, personally. They're still just European Christians reskinned, and I have no interest.

 

(Maybe Chasind, Avvar, or Rivaini, but seeing as that's never the case...)

 

Well, I don't want them to be all Andrastian either. You mistake me. And if they are human, there's plenty of variety just in that too, depending on the culture.. or the city.

 

But Thedas is not a world of just humans. If it was a fantasy setting with only humans from the beginning, I wouldn't be asking for more presence and exploration of non-human races because I'd know they weren't part of the bargain begin with. But since this is a world of non-human races, I want them to actually get more story and focus, not just hang around in the background like decorations.

 

And since BioWare happens to keep choosing all the human cultures and cities that I find least interesting to tell their game of thrones story over and over and over (it's like they have a checklist of all the Thedas countires and cultures I want to visit least and keep going there instead; Free Marches, Orlais, Tevinter), I'm not holding my breath that they'll finally create that Rivain or Par Vollen game I've been waiting on any time soon.

 

I just like more focus..whatever it may be. There's plenty of time for all kinds of stories. We don't have to do everything all at once.

 

That may be so, but I just don't want us to do everything one at a time either. Then it'll take forever for anything to get done or any story to get told because because one or two groups and one conflict per game will make it hard to get any progress or exploration on the dozen or so main racial nations and cultures

 

I guess what I mean is I don't necessarily want every game to have equal attention and screen time given to several different groups, but I also don't want every game to only give attention to one group with little to no exploration for the others. I enjoyed DAO because we actually got elfy and dwarfy presence and got to explore elfy and dwarfy content for a good portion of the game. Since the non-human stuff is what I like best about Thedas, that's what I want to see in these games. Yet I can't have that if several games in a row are only about Andrastian human protagonists interacting with mostly an Andrastian human cast, setting, politics, and conflicts, with only a few non-human characters in the background to act as fantasy decoration and f*ckbuddies.

 

I think it might do some good too, for giving some unpopular choices a spotlight. DAO had less than 5% of dwarf players according to Bioware. And DAI's top played option is human rogue then warrior and mage. Then elf options. But if they made a dwarf or qunari centric story, they might get people into them more. Just a thought. 

 

I agree. I think it'd be great...

 

But I'm also not holding my breath that BioWare is going to make that game any time soon. Keeping in mind that it ideally takes about three years to make a video game, and BioWare just seems to want to tell Andrastian human stories over and over again (DAO = Ferelden human politics, DA2 = Kirkwall human politics, DAI = Chantry and Orlesian politics, DA4 = likely Tevinter magister politics), I'm thinking we'll have to wait about two decades until they finally get around to that game that focusing on dwarfy or Qunari stuff; and even then they're going to find a way to make it all about humans since most players play humans and they're going to cater to them, not us. Dwarf and Qunari fans will be an afterthought in their own game.

 

I'd like to be optimistic, but I don't think they're going to put Andrastian human content in the background, so I want to bring elfy, dwarfy, Qunari, and whatever else stuff to the forefront.

 

Dragon age is built upon ideas driven and influenced from in real world concepts and constructs.

As such what kind of allure do these "non human" races possess?

They are just humans under another skin.

 

I'm gonna skip pointing out the irony that someone playing an escapist fantasy game with "non human" races is dismissing people for preferring the escapist fantasy elements over the mundane "real world concepts and constructs" we could interact with better in real life, and actually answer your question.

 

Thedas is a game "influenced from real world concepts and constructs," which is why I like the concepts and constructs embodied by the non-human races better than the humans. Since Thedas is a Fantasy Counterpart Culture to real-world Medieval Europe, and Andrastian humans are fantasy Medieval European Catholics (with a culture similar to typical everyday white Christians that make up most of our so-called "Western World"), and the non-human races embody the so-called "minority" and "exotic" cultures (except Rivaini, Chasind, and Avvar humans), I prefer the latter. Elves are basically fantasy Medieval Jews and Gypsies with some African and Native American, Celtic, Irish, etc. elements mixed in, Dwarves are pagan Germanic war tribes, the Qunari are Muslims, etc. I'm Jewish in real life, so I'm gonna play the race whose heritage, history, cultures, and struggle in Thedas more closely resembles that of my ancestors and at times my own life. (At least more than any Andrastian human, let me tell you that.)

 

I think Yahtzee explained why I like playing non humans in Thedas the best: "Much like the first one, [DA2]'s all about the representative messages and can't go five minutes without someone being really heavy-handedly racist against mages, elves, dwarves, goldfish, etc. Which is why I find it somewhat ironic that you're only allowed to play a human this time around, when the first game let you pick from an entire Burger King kid's club of racism backstories. Here you're always a human..."

 

Aaaand that's why I prefer playing non-humans and exploring non-human stories in Thedas better than the human ones.

[straykat]

Just because something is contained in a world, doesn't mean you need to unleash it all in one go.

 

Not even D&D does that and it has a larger selection of races. The more diverse communities are in cosmopolitan areas, but they're not everywhere at any given time, crammed in every story, imposing themselves on every type of plot or political construct. There's like dozens of elf types alone that don't like each other and would kill other elves for telling them what to do.

 

I think you're just trying to be anti-human, and looking for any excuse to diverge from it. You're at the point where you insult people for playing Couslands and such. It's not very cool. I like these extra races, but still..

[sniper_arrow]

Just because something is contained in a world, doesn't mean you need to unleash it all in one go.

 

Not even D&D does that and it has a larger selection of races. The more diverse communities are in cosmopolitan areas, but they're not everywhere at any given time, crammed in every story, imposing themselves on every type of plot or political construct. There's like dozens of elf types alone that don't like each other and would kill other elves for telling them what to do.

 

I think you're just trying to be anti-human, and looking for any excuse to diverge from it. You're at the point where you insult people for playing Couslands and such. It's not very cool. I like these extra races, but still..

 

She only likes non-human PCs and characters.

[Ghost Gal]

Just because something is contained in a world, doesn't mean you need to unleash it all in one go.

 

I'm not saying I want them all in one go, I'm saying I want more than just one in each go.

 

Maybe we're just talking past each other. I seem to be under the impression that you're asking for one extreme: have each game focus on only ONE race/group/conflict at a time, like the Andrastian human mage vs Templar conflict for DA2, and the Chantry and Orlesian noble politics of DAI. I personally don't like such narrow a focus for each game. I wish DA2 had included more non-Andrastian human content and conflicts, the way that I like that DAO and DAI had more conflict and content. I thought they were more interesting because they had more variety. Asking for more 

 

You seem to be under the impression that I want all races and cultures to get equal screen time and content every single game. While I'd prefer that to Andrastian humans getting all the content and screen time (simply because I enjoy that content m ore), that's not necessarily what I'm asking for. Asking for more variety, and more involvement and content for various races and cultures is not the same as asking for no focus whatsoever.

 

If you want to keep twisting my words around to rebuttal an argument I'm not making, fine. I won't answer after this.

 

 

I think you're just trying to be anti-human, and looking for any excuse to diverge from it.

 

I'm not "trying to be anti-human," I honestly think the Andrastian human religion, nobility, and politics are the least interesting part of this franchise. For crying out loud, I really like the Chasind, Avvar, and Rivaini, and they're human cultures. They're just not Andrastian human cultures. Andrastian human nobility and politics is honestly what I find the most boring, yet I'm also realistic enough to recognize that the devs will probably never shift the focus away from them. As much as I'd like to play a game where the ancient elves or the dwarves/Titans or the Qunari are the focus, I don't think it's ever going to happen. I think the Andrastian human content and conflicts will always be the focus, or the alpha conflict, while the non-human content and conflicts will always be the secondary, or the beta conflict. 

 

You seem to think that if it's not the focus then it should be left out of the game, while I'm arguing the non-human content will most likely never be the focus of a game (not because I'm trying to be a contrarian, but I'm looking at the company's track record and the majority of the fan base's chosen race, and humanity/Andrastian human culture has always been the main focus of every single game, from ME1 and DAO to the upcoming Andromeda), and I'm arguing that just because the non-human or non-Andrastian cultures won't be the focus of the game doesn't mean they should be left out entirely. If we can't have a game where the dwarf's history and connection to the Titans is the main focus of the entire game, then I want them to be more than just wallflowers for the games we have.

 

That's as clear as I can possibly make myself. If you still want to twist my words around to say I'm arguing something I'm not arguing, be my guest. I'm done.

 

She only likes non-human PCs and characters.

 

No, I only like playing non-human characters, and I like having non-human content and conflicts for non-human fans to enjoy.

[RoseLawliet]

- In some party banter he often rips into Merrill for taking unnecessary risks with the mirror and demon to recover a scrap of their people's lost past. Merrill counters that Fenris himself takes unnecessary risks trying to recover his own past (like trying to get in touch with his sister). The difference is he looks down on her for doing something he does, while she doesn't look down on him for doing something she believes in.

 

For me, the big difference between Fenris trying to remember his past and Merrill trying to recover the elves' past is that his own personal past is something he actually lived, experienced. It really is his. "The elves' past" is nebulous, the history of a group... otherwise known simply as "history", which has no owner. While I think it's worth finding out exactly what happened, for a group of people to base their identity on things they never actually experienced (especially in the case of the Dalish, where they don't even know what that past IS) is... silly to me. Fenris was trying to find his past to find who he was. Not "Fenris", but "Leto".

 

And now to switch topics completely: Why do some people have an issue with Fenris' two-handed sword model? It's not a BFS, it's an average (for Dragon Age) two-hander.

Editado por RoseLawliet, 16 marzo 2016 - 11:49 .

[RoseLawliet]

I'm gonna skip pointing out the irony that someone playing an escapist fantasy game with "non human" races is dismissing people for preferring the escapist fantasy elements over the mundane "real world concepts and constructs" we could interact with better in real life, and actually answer your question.

 

...

 

I'm Jewish in real life, so I'm gonna play the race whose heritage, history, cultures, and struggle in Thedas more closely resembles that of my ancestors and at times my own life. (At least more than any Andrastian human, let me tell you that.)

 

Um... yeah. If it's escapist, then "why not be escapist?" Why are you focusing so much on the "real world concepts and constructs" that compel you to play non-humans because you're Jewish?

[sniper_arrow]

For me, the big difference between Fenris trying to remember his past and Merrill trying to recover the elves' past is that his own personal past is something he actually lived, experienced. It really is his. "The elves' past" is nebulous, the history of a group... otherwise known simply as "history", which has no owner. While I think it's worth finding out exactly what happened, for a group of people to base their identity on things they never actually experienced (especially in the case of the Dalish, where they don't even know what that past IS) is... silly to me. Fenris was trying to find his past to find who he was. Not "Fenris", but "Leto".

 

And now to switch topics completely: Why do some people have an issue with Fenris' two-handed sword model? It's not a BFS, it's an average (for Dragon Age) two-hander.

 

I think in Merrill's case, she wants to restore the glory of the elves. She wants to improve her people's lives. And if you say they should move on, move on to where? They will never submit to the human/Andrastian culture, assuming even if they found out the truth about the Evanuris.

[sniper_arrow]

Um... yeah. If it's escapist, then "why not be escapist?" Why are you focusing so much on the "real world concepts and constructs" that compel you to play non-humans because you're Jewish?

 

It's way of her saying she wants to be special in a fantasy world, and not the mundane one. 

[Idun]

I don't hate him, but he's a whiny tsundere, and I can't stand tsunderes. Trying to romance him and he annoys me so much I might just say "**** it" and go for Anders again once he leaves.

[Catilina]

I don't hate him, but he's a whiny tsundere, and I can't stand tsunderes. Trying to romance him and he annoys me so much I might just say "**** it" and go for Anders again once he leaves.

Anders not whyny? Just for the sake of the truth ... He's second favorite LI-s, but I can not tell about him, that guy is hilarious or even fun.  

Anyway, Fenris humor is pretty okay, especially with his background. (One of his best qualities, his dry, sarcastic humour.)

 

Even an additive: After the end of ALONE, with rival romance Fenris completely stop  whining others (for example the mages) blame. With friendship romance brings up once more (urgently must be stopped ... )

[Andreas Amell]

I don't hate him at all. I feel sorry that he went through a "Weapon X" experiment to free his family but forgot it all like Wolverine. 

[straykat]

I don't hate him at all. I feel sorry that he went through a "Weapon X" experiment to free his family but forgot it all like Wolverine. 

 

I feel the same way about Jack. Although Fenris is unique for volunteering for it.

[GoldenGail3]

Don't hate him. Indifference is what I feel about Fenris, truth to be told.

[obbie31]

I personally think he's just boring. I hated him in my first run because the guy snapped the guy who was begging for his life. Then he killed that mage when he gave his word. I know they aren't great people but still.

 

I decided to give him another chance and took the friendship route. He's still dull. He drones on and on about stuff. To his credit, he has one or two good scenes. But he barely changes by the end of the game. He's just meh to me. His theme is great though.

[kimgoold]

I love the VA he has a really gorgeous voice, and I love the tragic brooder characters. Anders on the other hand I found to be annoying and a hypocrite. Anders from DAA I really liked but that maybe the VA (Cullen fangirl squeal).