72 réponses à ce sujet

[Seival]

Mesina2 wrote...

Arcian wrote...

The First Contact War isn't nearly enough of an interesting conflict to serve as the central story of the next game.

Yeah, it was just a few months skirmish between human patrols and colony garrison against turian patrols.

Only once there was a major military operation, which lasted only a single day.

While there was a danger for war to escalte to a major conflict, since turians started to approve mobilization after Shanxi liberation, Council intervined for peace.


Bassically, it would be a very boring and short game.


At most, FCW could be used as a prologue of a game but that's it.

+1

[dreamgazer]

Next Mass Effect: A First Contact War Discussion Thread

Let's not and say we did.

[Guanxii]

dreamgazer wrote...

More detractors than I was expecting, less than impressive support, hrm. I know war is not everybody's cup of tea... particularly RPG fans who don't want Mass Effect to turn into yet another modern military shooter. That's not the intention here. Humanity's discovery of the Mass Relay, our first steps venturing out into the stars and our first encounter with aliens. This is a new begining for the series.

Nobody is interested in the minutae of cold war-esque politiking / minor squrmishes... why even bring it up. Obviously that's never going to be part of a first contact war game. To say this conflict is uninteresting is really short-sighted imo. Skip all the bull****.... focus on shanxi. It's occupation and subsequent liberation like a sci-fi version of the Alamo in space crossed with some ODST/Reach. Revisionist history you say? If the canon sucks change it, I say! I don't see a problem with a limited time-line of a few days/hours during the liberation or occupation... I think it would be rather refreshing change of pace for the series.

Humanity's sons and daughters fighting for their and our lives on some strange new world against an invading alien empire who happen to be the galaxy's uncontested miltary superpower with futuristic technology - hopelessly outmatched. Yes the council stepping in at the end is anti-climactic but if that didn't happen it would have been absolute slaughter which would have been even more so. This isn't really a war... it's a survivors tale. The turians having only 2000+ casualities is understandable... comparable to the first gulf war, really.

Introducing the citadel/council and the galactic community at the end would be a mind blowing revelation to new players and humans at the time. Fascinating stuff.

Modifié par Guanxii, 02 janvier 2014 - 11:05 .

[SwitchN7]

dreamgazer wrote...

Next Mass Effect: A First Contact War Discussion Thread

Let's not and say we did.

[Display Name Owner]

I honestly think they wouldn't do this for the simple reason that human biotics don't exist yet and it would mean removing three classes. I mean, there are plenty of other reasons, but I imagine this would be quite a big red flag.

Also, if they were going to make a game about this you know it would be about TIM founding Cerberus, and that's already been covered in those comics.

[David7204]

No.

[Guanxii]

isnudo wrote...

I honestly think they wouldn't do this for the simple reason that human biotics don't exist yet and it would mean removing three classes. I mean, there are plenty of other reasons, but I imagine this would be quite a big red flag.

Also, if they were going to make a game about this you know it would be about TIM founding Cerberus, and that's already been covered in those comics.

I don't particularly care for Cerberus but having read the Evolution series you can see there is the foundation of some interesting ideas there that weren't particularly well articulated. The comics are only oberved by a minority of hardcore fans... bit of a writers pet project and most people would have no idea about Cerberus's involvement during the FCW. Drop all the meta/turian reaper balony and focus on the splinter in the resistance movement and in the chain of command. The conditions that gave rise/paved the way for the Jack Harper story. Keep it contained to an optional side-quest / assignment(s) for fans of the original series.

Humans didn't have biotics, Turians did. If you're constantly switching perspective from a team of Humans to a team Turians then it's not really a problem if your Turian character(s) can be vanguards or sentinels, etc.

Humans would need new classes so you could have instead:

Medic
Grenadier
Heavy (proto-sentinel with heavy weapons)
Soldier
Infiltrator
Engineer

Modifié par Guanxii, 05 janvier 2014 - 05:16 .

[Finlandiaprkl]

During the war? No. Why? there is nothing interesting, and second, it didn't last very long.
After the war? When Alliance came part of the citadel species and started to expand? Yes. There is a 20-30 year time when Alliance was pushing into the galactic politics. A time of expansion and exploration. What would be a better setting?

[Guanxii]

Finlandiaprkl wrote...

During the war? No. Why? there is nothing interesting, and second, it didn't last very long.
After the war? When Alliance came part of the citadel species and started to expand? Yes. There is a 20-30 year time when Alliance was pushing into the galactic politics. A time of expansion and exploration. What would be a better setting?

Nothing interesting? Only our first encounter with an alien race and subsequent war with them, the origin stories of several major characters e.g. Anderson, Hackett, TIM, Saren, etc and our descovery of the citadel and the galactic community. Christ use your imagination.

Plently of stories including games have taken place over days, e.g. 24 hours or so (Manhunt, Halo: Reach) and used limited timelines to great effect as interesting story framing devices.

Why skip over the begining of the human timeline to 20-30 years when we can get there in good time and explore it thoroughly? Humanity's evolotion as a space-faring species, our future colonization/expansion and conflict with the Batarians over the Attican Traverse would make for an excelent sequel... all in good time.

Modifié par Guanxii, 06 janvier 2014 - 12:56 .

[Maximillion46]

Finlandiaprkl wrote...

During the war? No. Why? there is nothing interesting, and second, it didn't last very long.
After the war? When Alliance came part of the citadel species and started to expand? Yes. There is a 20-30 year time when Alliance was pushing into the galactic politics. A time of expansion and exploration. What would be a better setting?

My idea was much the same (as I've posted before), though Guanxii's idea is quite interesting as well (Halo: Reach was amazing, even though the outcome was already set in stone and it was short and brutal; that actually made it even better).

Guess it ultimately comes down to: what can we get more games out of (if so, hopefully with save imports:D) and what scale would Mass Effect fans accept ME NEXT to be on? If after the war or another time and setting allows more games and the fans want a big enough scale (compared to the Reaper threat anyway), that's what Bioware is gonna go for, most likely.

If they want a fresh start, they'll stay away from the suggested scenarios entirely.

If they want to do a cool sidestory, ME NEXT could be during ME3 or during a war (presumably one with humans involved).

The introduction of humanity to the Council races and technology would be a nice way to introduce newcomers to the ME universe, as well as give us insight into humanity's rise as a galactic species. The war would probably only be one game if it gets made, but it would be cool.

That's my best guess:s

Modifié par Maximillion46, 06 janvier 2014 - 01:40 .

[Finlandiaprkl]

Maximillion46 wrote...

Finlandiaprkl wrote...

During the war? No. Why? there is nothing interesting, and second, it didn't last very long.
After the war? When Alliance came part of the citadel species and started to expand? Yes. There is a 20-30 year time when Alliance was pushing into the galactic politics. A time of expansion and exploration. What would be a better setting?

My idea was much the same (as I've posted before), though Guanxii's idea is quite interesting as well (Halo: Reach was amazing, even though the outcome was already set in stone and it was short and brutal; that actually made it even better).

Guess it ultimately comes down to: what can we get more games out of (if so, hopefully with save imports:D) and what scale would Mass Effect fans accept ME NEXT to be on? If after the war or another time and setting allows more games and the fans want a big enough scale (compared to the Reaper threat anyway), that's what Bioware is gonna go for, most likely.

If they want a fresh start, they'll stay away from the suggested scenarios entirely.

If they want to do a cool sidestory, ME NEXT could be during ME3 or during a war (presumably one with humans involved).

The introduction of humanity to the Council races and technology would be a nice way to introduce newcomers to the ME universe, as well as give us insight into humanity's rise as a galactic species. The war would probably only be one game if it gets made, but it would be cool.

That's my best guess:s

Yeah, but Halo: Reach was a single spin-off game, where as ME4 is a start of a new trilogy, just like Halo. But yeah, a spin-off game, just like Reach and ODST would be perfect to be set during the FCW or the Reaper War.

[Guanxii]

Maximillion46 wrote...
Yeah, but Halo: Reach was a single spin-off game, where as ME4 is a start of a new trilogy, just like Halo. But yeah, a spin-off game, just like Reach and ODST would be perfect to be set during the FCW or the Reaper War.

A prequel trilogy... dear god no, the horror!

Modifié par Guanxii, 06 janvier 2014 - 04:06 .

[Finlandiaprkl]

Guanxii wrote...

Finlandiaprkl wrote...
Yeah, but Halo: Reach was a single spin-off game, where as ME4 is a start of a new trilogy, just like Halo. But yeah, a spin-off game, just like Reach and ODST would be perfect to be set during the FCW or the Reaper War.

A prequel trilogy... dear god no, the horror!

[ot]Learn to quote[/ot]

What's wrong? It's better than have a sequel that takes place 50-100 years after RW.

Modifié par Finlandiaprkl, 06 janvier 2014 - 05:44 .

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Finlandiaprkl wrote...

Guanxii wrote...

Finlandiaprkl wrote...
Yeah, but Halo: Reach was a single spin-off game, where as ME4 is a start of a new trilogy, just like Halo. But yeah, a spin-off game, just like Reach and ODST would be perfect to be set during the FCW or the Reaper War.

A prequel trilogy... dear god no, the horror!

[ot]Learn to quote[/ot]

What's wrong? It's better than have a sequel that takes place 50-100 years after RW.

I want to see the franchise move FORWARD not backwards and because every major prequel to a franchise are at best silly fan-wanks and at worse continuity-breaking headaches for both the story tellers and the fans. We already know how the Rachni Wars, Krogan Rebellions, Morning War, and First Contact War end so how do make a game in a franchise known for "letting players choose their own paths" work without breaking lore on a major level?

Answer you can't really.

Unless your willing to go back so far back in the lore that the events wouldn't have any real effect in Shepard's story. That would mean a game with no human protagnast and I don't think any AAA franchise will be willing to do that. Also what's the point of a prequel to if you want to know Anderson, Saren, or TIM's backstories? Go read Mass Effect: Revelation and Mass Effect: Evolution if you want that story.  

[AlanC9]

Guanxii wrote...
 Revisionist history you say? If the canon sucks change it, I say! I don't see a problem with a limited time-line of a few days/hours during the liberation or occupation... I think it would be rather refreshing change of pace for the series.

So the proposal isn't actually about the FCW, it's about your fantasy version of what the FCW should have been?

OK, but then you need to give some more details about your fantasy version.

[MegaIllusiveMan]

Guanxii wrote...

isnudo wrote...

I honestly think they wouldn't do this for the simple reason that human biotics don't exist yet and it would mean removing three classes. I mean, there are plenty of other reasons, but I imagine this would be quite a big red flag.

Also, if they were going to make a game about this you know it would be about TIM founding Cerberus, and that's already been covered in those comics.

I don't particularly care for Cerberus but having read the Evolution series you can see there is the foundation of some interesting ideas there that weren't particularly well articulated. The comics are only oberved by a minority of hardcore fans... bit of a writers pet project and most people would have no idea about Cerberus's involvement during the FCW. Drop all the meta/turian reaper balony and focus on the splinter in the resistance movement and in the chain of command. The conditions that gave rise/paved the way for the Jack Harper story. Keep it contained to an optional side-quest / assignment(s) for fans of the original series.

Humans didn't have biotics, Turians did. If you're constantly switching perspective from a team of Humans to a team Turians then it's not really a problem if your Turian character(s) can be vanguards or sentinels, etc.

Humans would need new classes so you could have instead:

Medic
Grenadier
Heavy (proto-sentinel with heavy weapons)
Soldier
Infiltrator
Engineer

You said that only hardcore fans read it, yes? Correct, but the Comic is still from ME Universe. The First Contact War was already covered and would be a waste of resources and time to produce a game that wouldn't be long or/and would be  boring (by only fighting the same enemy type and a War that was waged in DAYS, not months or even weeks, but DAYS!) and also the fact that it's already covered.

The only way *I* could see the First Contact War be shown is if they made like a Mass Effect: Origins game. With less screen-time for the First Contact War and more for the other arcs (Genophage, Geth War, Prothean Wars...) The possibilites would be endless.

Modifié par MegaIllusiveMan, 06 janvier 2014 - 06:56 .

[rapscallioness]

No, thank you.

[Lvl20DM]

I think it'd be unlikely to make the First Contact War game seem like anything more than a spin-off or a prequel. I'd like to see the setting move forward, with the player exploring a rebuilt galactic society that's both familiar and new. The Reaper War would be like the Rachni War or the Krogan Rebellion - it would inform the current setting without defining it outright.

[Guanxii]

AlanC9 wrote...

Guanxii wrote...
 Revisionist history you say? If the canon sucks change it, I say! I don't see a problem with a limited time-line of a few days/hours during the liberation or occupation... I think it would be rather refreshing change of pace for the series.

So the proposal isn't actually about the FCW, it's about your fantasy version of what the FCW should have been?

OK, but then you need to give some more details about your fantasy version.

I'd rather have the thread be about everybody's ideas about what a first contact war game could be than have the thread focus on my ideas. That's what i'm ultimately interested in and it would be a lot more constructive. What I meant was I'm not adversed to the idea of BioWare changing some of the details if the game would be better for it. A lot of people seem to get bogged down in some of the minor niggles rather than see the bigger picture and the grandeur of the possibilities. If your vision for the first contact war is more ambitious than what Drew Karpyshyn et al had first envisioned at the time as backstory details then why limit yourself to their vision? A new studio wanting to put their own stamp on the series could start their own canon... in which case nitpicking away at a codex from 2007 is rather pointless.

Modifié par Guanxii, 06 janvier 2014 - 07:24 .

[JamesFaith]

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

I want to see the franchise move FORWARD not backwards and because every major prequel to a franchise are at best silly fan-wanks and at worse continuity-breaking headaches for both the story tellers and the fans. We already know how the Rachni Wars, Krogan Rebellions, Morning War, and First Contact War end so how do make a game in a franchise known for "letting players choose their own paths" work without breaking lore on a major level?
 

Why so many people keep saying prequel = FCW, Rachni war and so on?

There is no ultimate condition that prequel have to be tied to known events or known characters in fictional universe like ME, prequel just show its place in timeline.

And how avoid breaking lore and retcons? SImply by creating unknown event not mentioned in lore. F.e. some local war in Terminus systems wouldn't damage known lore (no mention in Codex) and you still could alter its progress and result.

[Guanxii]

JamesFaith wrote...

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

I want to see the franchise move FORWARD not backwards and because every major prequel to a franchise are at best silly fan-wanks and at worse continuity-breaking headaches for both the story tellers and the fans. We already know how the Rachni Wars, Krogan Rebellions, Morning War, and First Contact War end so how do make a game in a franchise known for "letting players choose their own paths" work without breaking lore on a major level?
 

Why so many people keep saying prequel = FCW, Rachni war and so on?

There is no ultimate condition that prequel have to be tied to known events or known characters in fictional universe like ME, prequel just show its place in timeline.

And how avoid breaking lore and retcons? SImply by creating unknown event not mentioned in lore. F.e. some local war in Terminus systems wouldn't damage known lore (no mention in Codex) and you still could alter its progress and result.

Why does every game have to have universe shaping consequences... it's a ridiculous mindset. One soldier cannot change the outcome of a war. Choices are always more meaningful and impactful on a personal level which is why the suicide mission or mulling over EDI's right to self determination is so much more memorable for the right reasons than deciding the future of the entire galaxy in such a ridiculous fashion. To say a game about the first contact war or the rachni wars would be devoid of interesting moral choices is rather silly.

Modifié par Guanxii, 06 janvier 2014 - 07:49 .

[Rosstoration]

To be honest, BioWare's strengths have always been their story and characterisation. As long as the story is immersive, dramatic, etc, I'm not really bothered what the setting is really - they can put it in the first contact war, after the Reaper war, inbetween - whatever. One of my biggest complaints about Mass Effect was the auto-dialogue bull****, the cliché writing and massive deus ex machina that came out of left field at the end.

[Siegdrifa]

After playng the first contact war, you still end up in a dump non the less.

: ))

[Sanunes]

From what I have been seeing in the Dragon Age forums, I don't think it would be a good idea to have anything really to do with previous characters because it seems the people that are attached to those characters will get upset with any changes made to those characters. Look at what happened with Ashley in Mass Effect 3 and from what I am reading it would be a difficulty challenge to make characters look the same. Then add in that its a different team working on the game aside from a few people at the Montreal studios I can't see the characters being moved to the new franchise properly.

Now, personally I highly dislike prequels in any forum of media because you always know what is going to happen or you are going to have to retcon a good chunk of events to make your new events happen. People are extremely upset that Leliana has "survived" a death that was never a firm "she is dead", but if they pull story elements that are in conflict what has happened in previous games or books, I can't see it going over well. Look at Star Trek Enterprise, if its brought up within my circle of friends there is always the conversation about how they broke with several established canon elements of the franchise, such as the start of the Federation/Klingon War or having the Borg appear. With a prequel I also think people would want the return of weapons to function like in Mass Effect 1, but since I believe it was changed for gameplay reasons its highly unlikely to be that type of design.

Overall I think its best to look forward and not to the past, that way there are less areas to contradict with established content and also leaves more room for future games as well, for eventually they would have to address the ending mess of Mass Effect 3 anyway, so why not do it now when people already seem to have a low opinion of the games BioWare makes.