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[MyChemicalBromance]

So one of the more common complaints as people started finishing the game was that the war asset system didn't really have the pay-off everyone was expecting. The final mission varied very little with regards to it, and even the cutscenes of the fleets only reflected the assets related to the major story decisions. Admittedly, and this is coming from someone who's been branded as a **** (lol, bio"slave unit" is censored) too many times to count, it was a little dissapointing to see basically zero of the smaller assets show up.

But before we're so quick to chalk it up to a rushed production schedule, let's ask ourselves this: what were we expecting it to look like going in?

At first glance, it would seem that we weren't expecting anything, as we'd never had a war asset system. Upon further reflection though, we see that the War Asset system is the ME3 iteration of resource gathering, and the apparent failure starts to make more sense.

For two games straight, the fanbase had been complaining about the tediousness of the resource gathering sections. In ME1, once the allure of the uncharted worlds wore off, it became clear that we were essentially landing in the same square over and over again and doing the same 5 things over and over again. In ME2, we were forced to stare at balls for hours on end, which was doubly painful for some of us as it only exemplified how poor the planet models looked in comparison to ME1. None of the resources were really all that unique, and it really was just grinding with as little gameplay as you could possibly have.

That said, we certainly didn't expect a particularly large load of platinum to have any direct effect on the ending cutscene, nor did we expect those Matriarch writings to come up during the end-game. You probably see where I'm going now.

Tasked with making the resource-gathering more interesting, Bioware utterly succeeded at doing so, but in doing so inadvertently created a new desire which could be said to outweigh it.

Imagine if we got a paragraph of lore every time we found a moderately large load of iridium. That is essentially what they did; tied the resource system into the lore in a meaningful enough way that people actually cared about it.

And assuming that similar resources were devoted the resource-gathering sections as in previous games, it seems pretty likely that they never planned to have a massive 10,000-variations fight scene at the end of ME3. As said before, we never would have expected that many variations sprouting from the mining mini-game, and starting with the goal of making resource gathering more interesting, they were probably too far into development to have any hope of developing the system we came to want by the time they realized the potential desire.

Just ask yourself this; if you had gathered no assets during the game, do think the final battle would have been as much of a let down? I think it's pretty clear it wouldn't be. The final fight in ME2 only had changes for the handful combat-related upgrades to the ship, which is comparable to the number of variations based on which fleets you have and EMS in ME3.

In the end, I just think this is an unfortunate instance of more effort actually being perceived as less effort.

Modifié par MyChemicalBromance, 01 janvier 2014 - 08:35 .

[Farangbaa]

I like this post.

Prepare for a crapstorm though.

[vandalDX]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Imagine expecting a little bit of flavor text for every large mineral load we found, or an expansion of the lore every single time we found found an artifact. That is essentially what they did; tied the resource system into the lore in a meaningful enough way that people actually cared about it.

I agree with your observations wholeheartedly - one of the highlights of the game was seeing the names of the different war assets in the War Room, the names of the fleets, the scientists.  The details of the asari, salarians, etc. were especially cool, and added to the united-galaxy flavor of the war.

I, for one, was never that excited about non-human races until ME3--the War Assets and the MP component really opened my eyes to the depth of the other races within the ME universe.  Should I be given the opportunity to select a playable race in a future ME game, I would probably start with a salarian.  My go-to kit in ME3MP to this day remains the salarian infiltrator.

[JamesFaith]

StreetMagic wrote...

The resource system was better in ME2 imo. All that platinum/iridium/etc culminated in upgrades which had a noticable effect in the suicide mission. 

And this purpose resources lost in 1/2 of game when you go all upgrades and hunderds of tuns of useless resources.
Common problem in most RPGs when money lost their value during game, I know only few who solve it well, f.e. Gothic 1.

[Fixers0]

When you make a mechanic that makes planet scanning in Mass Effect 2 look good. something has gone horribly wrong.

[crimzontearz]

No

[MyChemicalBromance]

crimzontearz wrote...

No

Compelling argument. I'll have to completely reevaluate my position. 

[TheMyron]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...


That said, we certainly didn't expect a particularly large load of platinum to have any direct effect on the ending cutscene, nor did we expect those Matriarch writings to come up during the end-game. You probably see where I'm going now.

Actually, I am a perfectionist precisely because I was hoping that those writings and the Prothean discs would have an impact...

Oh, how I wish I could of presented those discs to Javik... even if they weren't of any use to the assets.

[Michotic]

I'm with Street on this. The War Assets themselves didn't mean anything. You were just trying to reach a target number. You could raise your war assets in extremely lopsided ways, and still get what you need.

I believe you could skip every mission that got you war assets for the Crucible, but somehow you still get it done because you overloaded on War Assets that would contribute to Hammer.

If the War Assets meant more (like you need X amount for Sword, Shield, Hammer, and the Crucible), it may have forced more difficult decisions. If your Hammer resources will be sufficient, perhaps it's best to sabotage the Genophage so you get War Assets going to the Sword/Shield fleets and the Crucible.

[TheMyron]

StreetMagic wrote...

The resource system was better in ME2 imo. All that platinum/iridium/etc culminated in upgrades which had a noticable effect in the suicide mission. Noticable compared to Priority Earth at least. If I had any expectations, I was hoping for a Suicide Mission Plus. Something even more awesome. To me, it's a step back. War Assets are still useful, but it's just distilled down to one big raw number. You didn't have components that were the equivalent of getting different life or death decisions for Jack or Legion or Garrus and Thane. They could have extended the Grissom Academy decision for the students in ME3 to something more dramatic like the bubble sequence in ME2 - but instead you get nothing. You could have had varied attacks from Krogan or rachni forces. Or Asari swooping down on Reapers with their gunships. But... you get nothing.

Maybe not "nothing". But compared to ME2, it kind of sucks. It's more like ME1's final ending. Which sucks too.

They should have had the Collectors fighting with the Reapers in ME3...

[BrotherArdis]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

That said, we certainly didn't expect a particularly large load of platinum to have any direct effect on the ending cutscene, nor did we expect those Matriarch writings to come up during the end-game.

This is the essence of the problem, I think. We didn't expect that, because nobody said we should expect anything else. Natural resources in ME2 were to be used for research - and they were used for research. Memorabilia in ME1 were to be collected for money - and you collected them for money. Nobody said they'd do anything more. However, in ME3 you were told you'd be gathering fleets, squadrons, divisions, squads, individuals, materiel, intel and whatever else, and they would affect the course of the war. The multitude of asset types you could acquire suggested varied ways in which they were going to be used and influence the final battle - a lot of people expected a system similar to DAO or ME2 final missions, where you selected groups or individuals to aid you or perform a specific task, only significantly expanded. In reality, you were gathering one generic type of resource that had ZERO impact on gameplay and debatable impact on the ending cutscenes. That was not fantastic. The acquisition method was vastly improved, true, but the system itself was a complete failure.

And if the war assets were indeed never intended as anything more than a simple, generic resource, then Bioware failed to convey that.

Modifié par BrotherArdis, 01 janvier 2014 - 09:57 .

[ImaginaryMatter]

On the lore front the categories for the War Assets weren't that great. For example, a large number of them contributed towards something called the 'Citadel Defense Force' which as far as we can tell never have significantly contributed to the story (they didn't appear to halt Cerberus or the Reapers on the Citadel in any meaningful way). Also, the effectiveness and completion of the Crucible doesn't depend specifically on anything within the 'Crucible' category; similarly the effectiveness of Sword Fleet doesn't depend on the number of ships and fleets actually present during the final battle, but just the total EMS.

The problem with the system was that it didn't give the players choices much impact, outside of their own story arc. You would think a battle with all the races present and united would turn out much differently than one without Krogan and Geth present. The only difference in ME3 are a few different cutscenes, which in my opinion don't change the tone at all; because they last 30 seconds then boom back to Priority: Earth which plays out exactly the same way.

One way to have made it much more effective in conveying a sense of consequence to Shepard's actions would be to have War Assets affect different outcomes of the ending. The effectiveness of the Crucible would depend solely on the scientists, new technology, and supplies that were used in the construction. The effectiveness of Sword and Hammer would depend on the number of fleets and ground forces gathered, respectively. As a given the multiplayer should have no effect on the single player campaign.

Finally, and this is extremely nitpicky and inconsequential in the grand scheme of things, but the descriptions of the War Assets weren't particularly great. The science on the technology ones were soft. And one wonders things like how a biologist would contribute in any meaningful way to the Crucible construction.

[AlanC9]

BrotherArdis wrote...
And if the war assets were indeed never intended as anything more than a simple, generic resource, then Bioware failed to convey that.

I don't know what else Bio could have done to make the operation of the system clearer. The war asset screen always showed everything adding up into one grand total, modified by readiness. The subcategories show subtotals too, but these are not modified by readiness, and since the subcategories are mostly incoherent as to the type of resource present, the subtotals couldn't be meaningful anyway.

But this is easy for me to say since I wasn't confused in the first place.

[rapscallioness]

My complaint isn't with the War Asset system per se. That was alright. I liked being to read the lil bits and tally up stuff. (the fetch quests and planet scanning was boring as hell, tho).

My complaint is never actually getting to See these Assets in action.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 It was a good start...

[Rip504]

Good post OP. Some may have missed it,but nice.

[Invisible Man]

honestly, I got about what I expected from the GAW assets. I was hoping for more, but knew it was likely a pipe dream. however, I'm ok with that.

[Obadiah]

I liked the War Assets because when you follow them as they are added, it turns into a little mini-story of how the fleet was assembled and how the Crucible was built. I definitely liked hunting for the War Assets in Reaper controlled systems in ME3 more than planet scanning in ME2.

StreetMagic wrote...
...
Maybe not "nothing". But compared to ME2, it kind of sucks. It's more like ME1's final ending. Which sucks too.

I love ME1's ending way more than ME2's, because it was so much more dramatic and cinematic. Maybe that's why I like ME3's ending.

Modifié par Obadiah, 02 janvier 2014 - 02:14 .

[noobcannon]

kind of hoping war assets play a role in the next mass effect game, since it's being rumored a sequel.

[Slayer299]

The War Assets were anything *but* fantastic and in I fact they failed quite well. For all that it was made clear to us over and over how all the fleets, troops, squadrons, et al, were going to affect Sword/Shield...all they did in the end were give us some useless cutscenes and actually goto affecting the Crucible blowing up the Earth or not.

If anything, after all that build up I was expecting something similar to the Suicide Mission 2.0/DAO end game where we decide to use the assets and it could affect the battle for ill/good for us (you know Bioware...that whole sacrifice thing you were playing up for all this time!)

In the end War Assets for how they were implemented were a fail, not some epic success I couldn't understand.

[MyChemicalBromance]

Slayer299 wrote...
In the end War Assets for how they were implemented were a fail, not some epic success I couldn't understand.

*sigh*

Never change BSN.

You might consider reading OPs now and then; trust me, it won't hurt. Nothing I said is in direct contradiction to what you just said.

[AlanC9]

StreetMagic wrote...

The resource system was better in ME2 imo. All that platinum/iridium/etc culminated in upgrades which had a noticable effect in the suicide mission. Noticable compared to Priority Earth at least. 

Not "all that" -- the SM-related upgrades make up about 6% of upgrade mineral requirements.

[FlamingBoy]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...
In the end War Assets for how they were implemented were a fail, not some epic success I couldn't understand.

*sigh*

Never change BSN.

You might consider reading OPs now and then; trust me, it won't hurt. Nothing I said is in direct contradiction to what you just said.

It might help that next time you do not write a title that fires up emotions, its not entirely bsn fault when a title is written as clickbait with controversy.

Anyway you had some interesting points in your OP, not really much to add to it