122 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

Golden perfect ending? Isn't that the breath clip?

[David7204]

No.

[AlanC9]

You need to be a completionist to get it, though.

[David7204]

Not particularly. After the Extended Cut, it was set for 3100 I believe? And the player can almost get 4000 without DLC. Quite a bit of wiggle room.

That's not really the issue, through. The issue is the impact of the assets to achieve that ending. Which is essentially zero.

Modifié par David7204, 05 janvier 2014 - 05:12 .

[Kingthlayer]

My problem with the war asset system was it makes choices morally irrelevant. There is a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it now, backed by numbers. 110>100, saving the collector base was the right decision.

I guess my problem with it doesn't hurt the game itself but more the community, I remember seeing debates on here or having them with friends about what choice was right what was wrong and why. The why is gone, it's all backed by numbers.

[jtav]

I wouldn't say that. Technically, the best way to resolve Tuchanka is to kill, Wreav, sabotage the cure, keep the genophage data, and kill Mordin. At least, if you're going for numbers, Very few people do that. There's still lively debates to be had, even with the asset system.

[Dr. Doctor]

The issue with the War Assets system is that when you boil the outcomes for gameplay choices down to a numerical value then there's not really much thought that needs to go into decision making, just find out what option gives the higher number and pick that one. MP integration highlights this issue. Promote enough characters and suddenly your crack team of mercenaries is more effective at fighting the Reapers that a fleet of warships.

The other issue with the Assets is that while it gives the impression of waging war on a grand scale, it never gives any kind of payoff. In ME2 you got to see the upgrades you earned in action, or got some form of tangible benefit for the resources you invested. Saying that EMS represents how well the fight on Earth will go and then having it play out the same way every time no matter what isn't satisfying.

Right now I think Inquisition's Agents system is a step in the right direction. Recruiting agents and then using them as a limited resource for various missions and projects is a better concept.

[GreyLycanTrope]

I'll agree that it was far better than any of the "resource" gathering quests in previous installments but as a stand alone I wouldn't call war assets fantastic, and I don't mean failure to implement the assets on screen. The number values were all over the place, for instance an upgraded Normandy has almost the same value as and entire alliance fleet. I also can't help but feel trying to breaking everything down in a single overall score feels like mistake, you do those talky side quests you get points, you do a main quest a certain way you get points, I like my RPG reward system to spit out actual items for use every once in a while especially since the intrinsic value of said points can become quite arbitrary if you import from MP or get DLC that boosts your score to way past what you actually need to unlock everything.

[AlanC9]

jtav wrote...

I wouldn't say that. Technically, the best way to resolve Tuchanka is to kill, Wreav, sabotage the cure, keep the genophage data, and kill Mordin. At least, if you're going for numbers, Very few people do that. There's still lively debates to be had, even with the asset system.

First arranging for Wrex to die and Eve to live, right? Those are ME1 and ME2 choices; I suppose manipulating those choices based on ME3 asset scores is a way to game the system. 

Modifié par AlanC9, 06 janvier 2014 - 06:06 .

[dreamgazer]

I'd rather gather war assets with some semblance of narrative purpose than collect insignias, medallions, and dogtags because reasons.

[AlanC9]

dreamgazer wrote...

I'd rather gather war assets with some semblance of narrative purpose than collect insignias, medallions, and dogtags because reasons.

Don't remind me. Replaying ME1 now, and while I can't resist those sweet, sweet chunks of XP, I feel a little embarrassed about it

[ImaginaryMatter]

Does it ever explain what exactly is physically happening when you find a random ship while scanning? Like are you rescuing/repairing the ship because it crashed, or are you escorting it to the nearest fleet?

[GreyLycanTrope]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

Does it ever explain what exactly is physically happening when you find a random ship while scanning? Like are you rescuing/repairing the ship because it crashed, or are you escorting it to the nearest fleet?

Remember the Normandy's QED isn't standard, all other long ranger communications rely on the comm bouy network which got brought down. So I think it's more that you just run into a ship which couldn't contact anyone and their last orders had basically left them in whatever location they where without knowing where to go next, so I imagine it's very much just you callling them on the shortrange comms and going, meet Hacket at these coordinates.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 06 janvier 2014 - 06:50 .

[jstme]

AlanC9 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

I'd rather gather war assets with some semblance of narrative purpose than collect insignias, medallions, and dogtags because reasons.

Don't remind me. Replaying ME1 now, and while I can't resist those sweet, sweet chunks of XP, I feel a little embarrassed about it

Yup,avoiding reapers to fetch Turian flag,Asari writings, Volus relics et ctr during war of annihilation is really embarassing and clearly has no narrative purpose. That silly,silly ME1.
Oh,wait... It is that fantastic war assssets system.

Modifié par jstme, 06 janvier 2014 - 07:46 .

[Vortex13]

I agree with the OP, the War Asset system is a great idea on paper, but the execution of it was severly lacking.

Dr. Doctor wrote...

The issue with the War Assets system is that when you boil the outcomes for gameplay choices down to a numerical value then there's not really much thought that needs to go into decision making, just find out what option gives the higher number and pick that one. MP integration highlights this issue. Promote enough characters and suddenly your crack team of mercenaries is more effective at fighting the Reapers than a fleet of warships.

The other issue with the Assets is that while it gives the impression of waging war on a grand scale, it never gives any kind of payoff. In ME2 you got to see the upgrades you earned in action, or got some form of tangible benefit for the resources you invested. Saying that EMS represents how well the fight on Earth will go and then having it play out the same way every time no matter what isn't satisfying.

Right now I think Inquisition's Agents system is a step in the right direction. Recruiting agents and then using them as a limited resource for various missions and projects is a better concept.

I agree, although I do hope that the Agents in DA:I are actual characters instead of some 'not-gold' currency that the player spends on different objectives. If they are just a faceless currency, then its really not that much of an improvement from the War Assets system (IMO). 

The game wants to describe all of the fleets that you collect, all the scientists and specialists you bring on board as some important piece of the puzzle that will help us stop the Reaper threat, but the fact that you never get to see the characters or the fleets mentioned in action, or see the fruits of their labor; apart from having a high enough threashold to pick your ending; means that they could be replaced by hunk of ezzo that has the same asset score, and it would have the exact same results.

I would like to actually see and interact with my agents in DA:I. If the descripter says that Artificer Dagna is being sent to help construct the colossus, I would expect to be able to travel to the work camp and talk with her. I would also expect my agents to have more then a one time use. My crack team of assasins should return to my headquarters once they complete a task, not dissapear into the neather, never to be seen again.

[VolnuttN7]

I had no problem with aquiring war assets or being able to view them and read little lore bits about them. I actually enjoyed it very much so. But the final execution, as well as in tie with my final battle on Earth were skewed, to say the least. I was expecting a quick contact battle between the fleet and the reapers as well get more ground troops onto the ground, with some decisions from shepard during the battle to minimize casualties and save specific ships in the fleet, get on the ground, reunite with various friends, coordinate strikes and weaken Reaper forces on the ground to make access to the beam more easier through various missions and deciding which squads to work with.

Do I work with Kirrahe and the spectre? Jack and her students bolster me with biotcs? Do I send each of my squadmates to aid their own races and friends when need be, eventually leaving myself alone on the battlefield? Make decisions and sacrifice teammates? Then in the final push, contact the fleet and have them ensue another battle with the reapers in space for the final push to the beam? Was I expecting this? Yes. Was there any indication of this that I knew of prior to the game's release? No. And I made that expectation when I first obtained a war asset because tha'ts how I figured they would have been used in the final battle and that was their purpose.

But overall I like the war assets just not their execution at the end.

Modifié par VolnuttN7, 06 janvier 2014 - 10:14 .

[AlanC9]

jstme wrote...

Yup,avoiding reapers to fetch Turian flag,Asari writings, Volus relics et ctr during war of annihilation is really embarassing and clearly has no narrative purpose. That silly,silly ME1.
Oh,wait... It is that fantastic war assssets system.

Kind of missing the point there, dude. War Assets are useful. League of One medallions are not. If we have to have exploration -- really, the fundamental problem here is trying to shoehorn exploration into the games -- I'd like to get useful stuff out of it rather than useless stuff. It's an RP thing.

Modifié par AlanC9, 06 janvier 2014 - 10:22 .

[GimmeDaGun]

I liked the war asset system, though it would have been great if we could have seen the very major ones in action (not necessarily in actual gameplay, but at least in a few cutscenes).

[pablosplinter]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

I liked the war asset system, though it would have been great if we could have seen the very major ones in action (not necessarily in actual gameplay, but at least in a few cutscenes).

Absolutely. I really like the idea of the War Assets system, but to not actually represent it beyond the numbers is shockingly poor!

[Nightwriter]

I was mostly fine with the War Asset system actually. I mean, until I got to the end. And even then, I was only not fine with it in that the Rannoch peace was reduced to a numerical value instead of something very pertinent I could bring up to the Catalyst in defense of the existence of my cycle, and no matter how hard I tried amassing all these assets I still felt like I could only win if the enemy let me.

If I had tried to sit down and find some way to calculate and apply all the various assets a player can amass across the three games I really doubt I would have been able to come up with anything better than BioWare did. I agree with the common sentiment that the major assets should have had a greater cutscene appearance, but given that a lot of things started going haywire around the time of the ending I'm not really sure if that was a problem with the War Asset system or a problem with the ending. Maybe both. Idk.

[ruggly]

good on paper, poor in execution.

[Anubis722]

ruggly wrote...

good on paper, poor in execution.