403 réponses à ce sujet

[ianvillan]

hhh89 wrote...

@ianvillain: the Qun wouldn't allow it to leave, since he had to retrieve the Tome and he knew it was in Kirkwall. At the same time, the Qun didn't demand him to do anything about Kirwkall's corruption (plus, there's a treaty between qunari and human nations).
He was forced to do nothing. Until he can't retrieve the book and the situation with the elven converts gave him the opportunity to act, since the Qun demands that he protected every member of the Qun, even if it means war.

How did he know it was in Kirkwall, for all he knew it could of been sold to a different country or Tevinter.

No one said he had to do anything about Kirkwalls corruption, But if he was give space for his people for years and contributed nothing to the city, but actually made more problems for the people with his own selfish actions, then he had no cause to moan about a place he was freely capable to leave at anytime.

The only reason he didn't leave was because of his own pride of loosing the book and fear of punishment if he was to return without it. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

Vandicus wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

@ianvillain: the Qun wouldn't allow it to leave, since he had to retrieve the Tome and he knew it was in Kirkwall. At the same time, the Qun didn't demand him to do anything about Kirwkall's corruption (plus, there's a treaty between qunari and human nations).
He was forced to do nothing. Until he can't retrieve the book and the situation with the elven converts gave him the opportunity to act, since the Qun demands that he protected every member of the Qun, even if it means war.

Given the importance of Qunari and human relations, he could've pursued a much more effective method, namely diplomatic channels, of retrieving the book. 500+ gold offer for the book would have it in his hands within the week, and I have no doubt the Viscount and nobles would be willing to give that much to get him out of Kirkwall. I have to agree that the Arishok was not very effectual, possibly because they sent the wrong Qunari to address the problem.

The Qunari DID find the book on their own. Hawke and Isabela messed that up though....

[Neon Rising Winter]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Would you rather give them the room, or have them kill you and take your house? And yet the only complain that ever left the Arishok's mouth was that he was tired of his people being killed for commiting no other crime than existing. So what he says in the palace is hardly hypocritical. Especially also because he does decidedly NOT gorge himself in riches and pwoer while living in Kirkwall.

That was rather my point. Someone has turned up on your doorstep, offered you the choice of providing for them or being killed, then after several years enjoying your reluctant hospitality refers to you as a bunch of idle parasites. Now I'm not saying the people he was referring to weren't a bunch of idle parasites, just that if you go and look up the phrase 'It takes one to know one' there's going to be a portrait of the Arishok illustrating it.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Master Warder Z wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...
Furthermore Caesar made no move to disolve the Senate, he did however oust every one who wasn't supportive of him during his purge in the civil war but that said afterwards he made no move of it besides cementing his own permenent place in power. He didn't overstep he took the power that the senate threw at his feet when Antony defected with half of their military might and decided to go play king in the sand.

I think you are confusing Ceasar with Agustus in this part. Mark Antony didn't defect to Egypt with Cleopatra until after Ceasar's death when the Second Triumvirate dissolved.

My Bad I haven't given a glance over to Roman History in ages.

I forgot about that little detail of the event; recalled it occuring just misplaced it in the time line.

No problem. Now you know. 

[Hellion Rex]

hhh89 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Be that as it may, doesn't change the fact taht the nobles complained about Meredith holding the power becasue of legality. It was simply because they didn't have any power and she did, that they complained. And in this the Arishok was spot on with his description of the bastards.

DId she have the legal authority to take control, though? I'm unsure where the separation between Chantry and the Viscount is.

I don't think it was specified in the game. The Chantry might have the role/possibility to make an interreign during a crysis (and Meredith was the second highest ranking member of the Chantry). I doubt that it was legal to block the election of the new viscount, though she might have taken advantages of some loopholes.

I guess Saemus would have been next in line for the throne, had it not been for the meddlings of one stupid, Mother Petrice...<_<
Even still though, I doubt Meredith had the legal authority to block elections for a new Viscount.

[EmperorSahlertz]

ianvillan wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

@ianvillain: the Qun wouldn't allow it to leave, since he had to retrieve the Tome and he knew it was in Kirkwall. At the same time, the Qun didn't demand him to do anything about Kirwkall's corruption (plus, there's a treaty between qunari and human nations).
He was forced to do nothing. Until he can't retrieve the book and the situation with the elven converts gave him the opportunity to act, since the Qun demands that he protected every member of the Qun, even if it means war.

How did he know it was in Kirkwall, for all he knew it could of been sold to a different country or Tevinter.

No one said he had to do anything about Kirkwalls corruption, But if he was give space for his people for years and contributed nothing to the city, but actually made more problems for the people with his own selfish actions, then he had no cause to moan about a place he was freely capable to leave at anytime.

The only reason he didn't leave was because of his own pride of loosing the book and fear of punishment if he was to return without it. 

Exactly what "selfish" actions of his did cause problems? The Qunari NEVER involed themselves, unless someone else had already involved them against their will.

[ianvillan]

Vandicus wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

@ianvillain: the Qun wouldn't allow it to leave, since he had to retrieve the Tome and he knew it was in Kirkwall. At the same time, the Qun didn't demand him to do anything about Kirwkall's corruption (plus, there's a treaty between qunari and human nations).
He was forced to do nothing. Until he can't retrieve the book and the situation with the elven converts gave him the opportunity to act, since the Qun demands that he protected every member of the Qun, even if it means war.

Given the importance of Qunari and human relations, he could've pursued a much more effective method, namely diplomatic channels, of retrieving the book. 500+ gold offer for the book would have it in his hands within the week, and I have no doubt the Viscount and nobles would be willing to give that much to get him out of Kirkwall. I have to agree that the Arishok was not very effectual, possibly because they sent the wrong Qunari to address the problem.

It says something when their best military stratagist could only come up with the strategy of sitting on a chair moaning for years to retrieve his book.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Narrow Margin wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Would you rather give them the room, or have them kill you and take your house? And yet the only complain that ever left the Arishok's mouth was that he was tired of his people being killed for commiting no other crime than existing. So what he says in the palace is hardly hypocritical. Especially also because he does decidedly NOT gorge himself in riches and pwoer while living in Kirkwall.

That was rather my point. Someone has turned up on your doorstep, offered you the choice of providing for them or being killed, then after several years enjoying your reluctant hospitality refers to you as a bunch of idle parasites. Now I'm not saying the people he was referring to weren't a bunch of idle parasites, just that if you go and look up the phrase 'It takes one to know one' there's going to be a portrait of the Arishok illustrating it.

But as I pointed out in the edit, it is an inaccurate comparison, since the Qunari NEVER made such threats or demands. I only assued that the QUnari would ahve taken some sort of housing from Kirkwall, but taht is based ENTIRELY on my own assumptions and not on anything actually concrete. What we DO know, is that the QUnari DIDN'T make any request, demands or threats upon arrival to Kirkwall.

[Master Warder Z_]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...
Furthermore Caesar made no move to disolve the Senate, he did however oust every one who wasn't supportive of him during his purge in the civil war but that said afterwards he made no move of it besides cementing his own permenent place in power. He didn't overstep he took the power that the senate threw at his feet when Antony defected with half of their military might and decided to go play king in the sand.

I think you are confusing Ceasar with Agustus in this part. Mark Antony didn't defect to Egypt with Cleopatra until after Ceasar's death when the Second Triumvirate dissolved.

My Bad I haven't given a glance over to Roman History in ages.

I forgot about that little detail of the event; recalled it occuring just misplaced it in the time line.

No problem. Now you know. 

I recall now; Same effect though i suppose.

[Hellion Rex]

ianvillan wrote...
It says something when their best military stratagist could only come up with the strategy of sitting on a chair moaning for years to retrieve his book.

What else do you expect him to do, when he doesn't know WHERE THE DAMN THING IS.

[The Elder King]

@ianvillain: The Arishok said that the Qun forced him to stay in Kirkwall. Regardless of the reason, he wasn't allowed to leave, unless he wanted to leave the Qun.
And the qunari didn't do any selfish actions. They just stayed in Kirkwall without hurting anyone, or starting recruiting. It was the humans that did that.

[Vandicus]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

@ianvillain: the Qun wouldn't allow it to leave, since he had to retrieve the Tome and he knew it was in Kirkwall. At the same time, the Qun didn't demand him to do anything about Kirwkall's corruption (plus, there's a treaty between qunari and human nations).
He was forced to do nothing. Until he can't retrieve the book and the situation with the elven converts gave him the opportunity to act, since the Qun demands that he protected every member of the Qun, even if it means war.

Given the importance of Qunari and human relations, he could've pursued a much more effective method, namely diplomatic channels, of retrieving the book. 500+ gold offer for the book would have it in his hands within the week, and I have no doubt the Viscount and nobles would be willing to give that much to get him out of Kirkwall. I have to agree that the Arishok was not very effectual, possibly because they sent the wrong Qunari to address the problem.

The Qunari DID find the book on their own. Hawke and Isabela messed that up though....

500 gold would probably have resolved the situation without bloodshed(well between Qunari and humans, the underworld might very well kill each other over it) during Act 1. Even assuming that it was held on till Act 2 and the smuggler still decided to sell it to Tevinter over the Qunari, Isabela turning over the book to another would only result in it being sold back to the Qunari. Having the city guard and various bounty hunters and mercenaries looking for the book couldn't have hurt their odds of recovering the book.

Then the whole situation ends up with the Arishok attacking Kirkwall. Easier ways to get their cooperation.

[Master Warder Z_]

ianvillan wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

@ianvillain: the Qun wouldn't allow it to leave, since he had to retrieve the Tome and he knew it was in Kirkwall. At the same time, the Qun didn't demand him to do anything about Kirwkall's corruption (plus, there's a treaty between qunari and human nations).
He was forced to do nothing. Until he can't retrieve the book and the situation with the elven converts gave him the opportunity to act, since the Qun demands that he protected every member of the Qun, even if it means war.

Given the importance of Qunari and human relations, he could've pursued a much more effective method, namely diplomatic channels, of retrieving the book. 500+ gold offer for the book would have it in his hands within the week, and I have no doubt the Viscount and nobles would be willing to give that much to get him out of Kirkwall. I have to agree that the Arishok was not very effectual, possibly because they sent the wrong Qunari to address the problem.

It says something when their best military stratagist could only come up with the strategy of sitting on a chair moaning for years to retrieve his book.

Wrong Qunari for the Job obviously; He was well within his element pursuing the stolen tome but once it fell out of Reach he was quickly thrown into a situation he was ill suited for.

Its one of the situations where the precious certainity of the Qun backfires, There are no jack of all trades within their society after all, No Warrior Diplomats.

[Hellion Rex]

hhh89 wrote...

@ianvillain: The Arishok said that the Qun forced him to stay in Kirkwall. Regardless of the reason, he wasn't allowed to leave, unless he wanted to leave the Qun.
And the qunari didn't do any selfish actions. They just stayed in Kirkwall without hurting anyone, or starting recruiting. It was the humans that did that.

I think it was said somewhere that the Ariqun and Arigena actually denied him leave to return to Par Vollen until he had found the book that he lost.

[The Elder King]

@eluvianix: yes, Petrice screwed things very badly. She had a talent for it.

[Vandicus]

eluvianix wrote...

ianvillan wrote...
It says something when their best military stratagist could only come up with the strategy of sitting on a chair moaning for years to retrieve his book.

What else do you expect him to do, when he doesn't know WHERE THE DAMN THING IS.

Ask for help from the Viscount and the nobles politely. Attacking the city and killing the Viscount is very far down the list of options.

[Hellion Rex]

hhh89 wrote...

@eluvianix: yes, Petrice screwed things very badly. She had a talent for it.

If only we had an aggressive option to kill her stupid a**. I have never wanted to kill a Dragon Age character as much as I wanted to annihilate her.

[The Elder King]

eluvianix wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

@ianvillain: The Arishok said that the Qun forced him to stay in Kirkwall. Regardless of the reason, he wasn't allowed to leave, unless he wanted to leave the Qun.
And the qunari didn't do any selfish actions. They just stayed in Kirkwall without hurting anyone, or starting recruiting. It was the humans that did that.

I think it was said somewhere that the Ariqun and Arigena actually denied him leave to return to Par Vollen until he had found the book that he lost.

I don't recall a dialogue about Arigena and Ariqun other than when Hawke asked more about the Qun. He certainly had two choices: stay in Kirkwall or leave the Qun.

[Lulupab]

AresKeith wrote...

Rassler wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

So if Anders dies a martyr's death, does he die one if he kills himself after helping kill all the mages to atone for the mess he started?

IF he kills himself. There is no proof. Anders simply hints, that which may or may not be true. We can't count on this at all.

Btw you are on hopelessly anti-mage list of BSN 

But then again Anders doesn't really become a marty anyway since alot of mages don't agree with what he did in Kirkwall

lol @ bolded part

Well Its a matter of opinion and speculation anyway. We'll have to wait to see what happens.

And there is nothing to laugh about bolded part. For three years I've seen him post about mages and his posts about mages is summed up in a single sentence : "Submit ot die". There is a huge difference between being a pro templar and being an anti-mage. I'm personally a pro mage but I'm not a anti-templar. I avoid killing them whenever possible in games and see their side of story as well but in my opinion mages are a little bit more just. 

Modifié par Rassler, 06 janvier 2014 - 12:04 .

[Hellion Rex]

Vandicus wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

ianvillan wrote...
It says something when their best military stratagist could only come up with the strategy of sitting on a chair moaning for years to retrieve his book.

What else do you expect him to do, when he doesn't know WHERE THE DAMN THING IS.

Ask for help from the Viscount and the nobles politely. Attacking the city and killing the Viscount is very far down the list of options.

After 6 years of waiting? By then, I would have said, "F*ck it," too.

[The Elder King]

Vandicus wrote...

Ask for help from the Viscount and the nobles politely. Attacking the city and killing the Viscount is very far down the list of options.

Maybe he was forbidden to do so. And he attacked Kirkwall only when the tome was gone and when Kirkwall threatened his new members.

[Master Warder Z_]

Rassler wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Rassler wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

So if Anders dies a martyr's death, does he die one if he kills himself after helping kill all the mages to atone for the mess he started?

IF he kills himself. There is no proof. Anders simply hints, that which may or may not be true. We can't count on this at all.

Btw you are on hopelessly anti-mage list of BSN 

But then again Anders doesn't really become a marty anyway since alot of mages don't agree with what he did in Kirkwall

lol @ bolded part

Well Its a matter of opinion and speculation anyway. We'll have to wait to see what happens.

And there is nothing to laugh about bolded part. For three years I've seen him post about mages and his posts about mages is summed up in a single sentence : "Submit ot die". There is a huge difference between being a pro templar and being an anti-mage. I'm personally a pro mage but I'm not a anti-templar. I avoid killing them whenever possible in games and see their side of story as well but in my opinion mages are a little bit more just. 

Am i on the Anti-Mage list of BSN?

Just asking out of curiousity.

[The Elder King]

eluvianix wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

@eluvianix: yes, Petrice screwed things very badly. She had a talent for it.

If only we had an aggressive option to kill her stupid a**. I have never wanted to kill a Dragon Age character as much as I wanted to annihilate her.

Well, for personal reasons my Cousland wanted to kill Howe more. But My Hawke certainly didn't cry for her death.

[Neon Rising Winter]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

But as I pointed out in the edit, it is an inaccurate comparison, since the Qunari NEVER made such threats or demands. I only assued that the QUnari would ahve taken some sort of housing from Kirkwall, but taht is based ENTIRELY on my own assumptions and not on anything actually concrete. What we DO know, is that the QUnari DIDN'T make any request, demands or threats upon arrival to Kirkwall.

Heaven forbid the large military contingent turning up on the doorstep were at all threatening. And I'm sure the years of bed and board were provided purely voluntarily and in no way was there any implicit threat of them say... going completely bonkers, slaughtering people, beheading the viscount and being anything other than the perfect houseguests.

I'm afraid the bunch of freeloaders sitting about for several years doing the woe is me routine is a bit more convinving to me.

[Hellion Rex]

Master Warder Z wrote...

Am i on the Anti-Mage list of BSN?

Just asking out of curiousity.

As a pro mage member on the BSN, I have placed you on the "We are watching you," list.