403 réponses à ce sujet

[EmperorSahlertz]

Vandicus wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

@ianvillain: the Qun wouldn't allow it to leave, since he had to retrieve the Tome and he knew it was in Kirkwall. At the same time, the Qun didn't demand him to do anything about Kirwkall's corruption (plus, there's a treaty between qunari and human nations).
He was forced to do nothing. Until he can't retrieve the book and the situation with the elven converts gave him the opportunity to act, since the Qun demands that he protected every member of the Qun, even if it means war.

Given the importance of Qunari and human relations, he could've pursued a much more effective method, namely diplomatic channels, of retrieving the book. 500+ gold offer for the book would have it in his hands within the week, and I have no doubt the Viscount and nobles would be willing to give that much to get him out of Kirkwall. I have to agree that the Arishok was not very effectual, possibly because they sent the wrong Qunari to address the problem.

The Qunari DID find the book on their own. Hawke and Isabela messed that up though....

500 gold would probably have resolved the situation without bloodshed(well between Qunari and humans, the underworld might very well kill each other over it) during Act 1. Even assuming that it was held on till Act 2 and the smuggler still decided to sell it to Tevinter over the Qunari, Isabela turning over the book to another would only result in it being sold back to the Qunari. Having the city guard and various bounty hunters and mercenaries looking for the book couldn't have hurt their odds of recovering the book.

Then the whole situation ends up with the Arishok attacking Kirkwall. Easier ways to get their cooperation.

Where do you assume the Qunari would get this gold from? They were shipwrecked. And making large public statements like that would PROBABLY not ahve been favorable for the Qunari, since that would ahve made it all the easier for their enemies to find out that the Tome was still out of the QUnari's possession.

[ianvillan]

hhh89 wrote...

@ianvillain: The Arishok said that the Qun forced him to stay in Kirkwall. Regardless of the reason, he wasn't allowed to leave, unless he wanted to leave the Qun.
And the qunari didn't do any selfish actions. They just stayed in Kirkwall without hurting anyone, or starting recruiting. It was the humans that did that.

Did the Qun force him to release toxic chemicals in the city.

The Arishok did start recruiting as well including the Vicounts son and wanted criminals.

Yes some of his people were killed, but those that did it were all killed for the crime.

The problems started because the Arishok let his arrogance and fears rule him so he started a sneak attack which involved the murder of many people including guards, nobles, merchants and other innocent people who caused him no harm.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Master Warder Z wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...
Furthermore Caesar made no move to disolve the Senate, he did however oust every one who wasn't supportive of him during his purge in the civil war but that said afterwards he made no move of it besides cementing his own permenent place in power. He didn't overstep he took the power that the senate threw at his feet when Antony defected with half of their military might and decided to go play king in the sand.

I think you are confusing Ceasar with Agustus in this part. Mark Antony didn't defect to Egypt with Cleopatra until after Ceasar's death when the Second Triumvirate dissolved.

My Bad I haven't given a glance over to Roman History in ages.

I forgot about that little detail of the event; recalled it occuring just misplaced it in the time line.

No problem. Now you know. 

I recall now; Same effect though i suppose.

Yeah. Caesar's death sparked the creation of the Second Triumvirate which eliminated all those who opposed Caesar's dream, then the three began to infight and broke up, Agustus(Octavian at the time) got the support of the remaining senators who supported Caesar's goal and eliminated Antony and was crowned Rome's first Emperor.

[Grieving Natashina]

eluvianix wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

ianvillan wrote...
It says something when their best military stratagist could only come up with the strategy of sitting on a chair moaning for years to retrieve his book.

What else do you expect him to do, when he doesn't know WHERE THE DAMN THING IS.

Ask for help from the Viscount and the nobles politely. Attacking the city and killing the Viscount is very far down the list of options.

After 6 years of waiting? By then, I would have said, "F*ck it," too.

So what stopped him from doing it sooner?  Or asking "Serrah" Hawke during Act 2?  The Qun seems restrictive in all the wrong ways.  

On topic: As it is, I think the Chantry has too much power.  Anders has lived in all my playthroughs, mainly because I don't want to add a martyr to the pile.  It seems like people that are martyrs have far more power in Thedas than the living.  I didn't want to give Anders that kind of satisification.

[Master Warder Z_]

eluvianix wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Am i on the Anti-Mage list of BSN?

Just asking out of curiousity.

As a pro mage member on the BSN, I have placed you on the "We are watching you," list.

As a Pro Templar member of BSN i have promptly ignored the whining of the robes as i gutted them horribly for their complaining and gone back to my drinking.

[Dave of Canada]

Rassler wrote...
IF he kills himself. There is no proof. Anders simply hints, that which may or may not be true. We can't count on this at all.

If he doesn't kill himself, he still kills mages and won't be praised for helping free mages, no? So his entire role in the conflict is reduced to nothing, he won't be able to live properly due to Justice turning into a ravenous beast.

However, there is minor proof that he kills himself. Anders isn't mentioned in the Varric narration if you romanced him and made him go against the mages.

Btw you are on hopelessly anti-mage list of BSN 

Woah, really? Can I see this list? I'd like to dispute it.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 06 janvier 2014 - 12:11 .

[Ser Alicia]

rasloveszev wrote...

TheBioticAssassin wrote...

All hail Anders!! All hail Anders!!

 I love you....<3<3<3<3<3

Haha, thanks.  <3

[Vandicus]

eluvianix wrote...

After 6 years of waiting? By then, I would have said, "F*ck it," too.

Well hopefully a sensible person would ask right off the bat rather than waiting six years.

hhh89 wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

Ask for help from the Viscount and the nobles politely. Attacking the city and killing the Viscount is very far down the list of options.

Maybe he was forbidden to do so. And he attacked Kirkwall only when the tome was gone and when Kirkwall threatened his new members.

Being forbidden to pursue the most effective methods of retrieving the Tome, namely asking the Viscount and nobles to help with their guards and a bounty on the book, or at the least putting up his own bounty for the book, would be extremely dumb. Less reason to blame the Arishok specifically for the screw-up, but it is nonetheless a ridiculously long trainwreck. 

The Arishok represents his entire nation. Had they won the battle at Kirkwall, they'd probably end up going to war with a lot of Thedas again(and the mages would be doomed to be saarebas). He's putting dozens/hundreds? of Qunari lives in danger should he lose the battle(which is what ends up happening). Not to mention the needless casualties from people caught in the crossfire. A person with that much power has the responsibility to restrain themselves and look at things from a more practical standpoint. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

Narrow Margin wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

But as I pointed out in the edit, it is an inaccurate comparison, since the Qunari NEVER made such threats or demands. I only assued that the QUnari would ahve taken some sort of housing from Kirkwall, but taht is based ENTIRELY on my own assumptions and not on anything actually concrete. What we DO know, is that the QUnari DIDN'T make any request, demands or threats upon arrival to Kirkwall.

Heaven forbid the large military contingent turning up on the doorstep were at all threatening. And I'm sure the years of bed and board were provided purely voluntarily and in no way was there any implicit threat of them say... going completely bonkers, slaughtering people, beheading the viscount and being anything other than the perfect houseguests.

I'm afraid the bunch of freeloaders sitting about for several years doing the woe is me routine is a bit more convinving to me.

You distrust the words of the Viscount who gave them the compound of course because....... What exactly are you basing your statement on? Yes, the Qunari probably APPEARED threatening, but they DID NOT threaten anyone. If you cannot see the difference, then god forbid you ever enter politics.

[Hellion Rex]

Dave of Canada wrote...
Woah, really? Can I see this list? I'd like to dispute it.

No you may not see the list. It is only meant for mage eyes of awesomeness!

[Hellion Rex]

Master Warder Z wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Am i on the Anti-Mage list of BSN?

Just asking out of curiousity.

As a pro mage member on the BSN, I have placed you on the "We are watching you," list.

As a Pro Templar member of BSN i have promptly ignored the whining of the robes as i gutted them horribly for their complaining and gone back to my drinking.

Ok....I was speaking in jest.

[Hellion Rex]

Vandicus wrote...

Well hopefully a sensible person would ask right off the bat rather than waiting six years.

He might have been denied that right to ask.

[ianvillan]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...


Where do you assume the Qunari would get this gold from? They were shipwrecked. And making large public statements like that would PROBABLY not ahve been favorable for the Qunari, since that would ahve made it all the easier for their enemies to find out that the Tome was still out of the QUnari's possession.

So the Qunari are shipwrecked and have no money yet they made no threats and were given free lodgings, free food and free materials for there needs and the Arishok still complains about the city and believes it to be a cesspool, The way he decides to repay the hospitality is to try to kill as many people as he can find.

If that is what the Qun is then I shudder to think what his homeland is like.

Modifié par ianvillan, 06 janvier 2014 - 12:16 .

[Vandicus]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Where do you assume the Qunari would get this gold from? They were shipwrecked. And making large public statements like that would PROBABLY not ahve been favorable for the Qunari, since that would ahve made it all the easier for their enemies to find out that the Tome was still out of the QUnari's possession.

The Viscount and assorted nobles.


What reason does the Arishok have to believe that the criminal underworld would keep the book a secret? It was being sold to Tevinter when they finally caught up to it.

[EmperorSahlertz]

eluvianix wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Am i on the Anti-Mage list of BSN?

Just asking out of curiousity.

As a pro mage member on the BSN, I have placed you on the "We are watching you," list.

As a Pro Templar member of BSN i have promptly ignored the whining of the robes as i gutted them horribly for their complaining and gone back to my drinking.

Ok....I was speaking in jest.

He is just trying hard to be placed on the anti-mage list. He doesn't know that it doesn't accept try-hards and brown-noses.

[Master Warder Z_]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...
Furthermore Caesar made no move to disolve the Senate, he did however oust every one who wasn't supportive of him during his purge in the civil war but that said afterwards he made no move of it besides cementing his own permenent place in power. He didn't overstep he took the power that the senate threw at his feet when Antony defected with half of their military might and decided to go play king in the sand.

I think you are confusing Ceasar with Agustus in this part. Mark Antony didn't defect to Egypt with Cleopatra until after Ceasar's death when the Second Triumvirate dissolved.

My Bad I haven't given a glance over to Roman History in ages.

I forgot about that little detail of the event; recalled it occuring just misplaced it in the time line.

No problem. Now you know. 

I recall now; Same effect though i suppose.

Yeah. Caesar's death sparked the creation of the Second Triumvirate which eliminated all those who opposed Caesar's dream, then the three began to infight and broke up, Agustus(Octavian at the time) got the support of the remaining senators who supported Caesar's goal and eliminated Antony and was crowned Rome's first Emperor.

Indeed and Rome as a republic which in truth had died decades before hand was reborn into a militistric expansionist state would leave its mark on the world for centuries to come.

Octavian however isn't my favorite among the Roman Emperors namely for two seperate reasons, He didn't continue Caesar's Frontier conquests into Ghoul and thus put off the Visigoth problem until it came crashing down on their hands later on and thus becoming an actual threat rather then just a remote issue against their outposts on the frontier and the fact he began the process of opening the Legion.

The Legion at this point was mostly made up of middle and upper classmen, and it reflected that, its training and equipment were top notch for their time period but once the social divide within the Legion began to falter it lost a good deal of its support of the patrons within the senate hence Octivian having to force a good many of the senators to pay for their upkeep while under Julius that never became an issue.

Sure you saw two additional legions under Octivian but Julius had eight that were just as good if not better.

[Master Warder Z_]

eluvianix wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Am i on the Anti-Mage list of BSN?

Just asking out of curiousity.

As a pro mage member on the BSN, I have placed you on the "We are watching you," list.

As a Pro Templar member of BSN i have promptly ignored the whining of the robes as i gutted them horribly for their complaining and gone back to my drinking.

Ok....I was speaking in jest.

That was actually supposed to be humorous...  

[Hellion Rex]

Vandicus wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Where do you assume the Qunari would get this gold from? They were shipwrecked. And making large public statements like that would PROBABLY not ahve been favorable for the Qunari, since that would ahve made it all the easier for their enemies to find out that the Tome was still out of the QUnari's possession.

The Viscount and assorted nobles.


What reason does the Arishok have to believe that the criminal underworld would keep the book a secret? It was being sold to Tevinter when they finally caught up to it.

And as Mother Petrice showed, who in the world would have gladly donated to the Qunari cause. Hell, most of the nobles were probably wondering if this merely part of an invasion force.

[The Elder King]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
Yeah. Caesar's death sparked the creation of the Second Triumvirate which eliminated all those who opposed Caesar's dream, then the three began to infight and broke up, Agustus(Octavian at the time) got the support of the remaining senators who supported Caesar's goal and eliminated Antony and was crowned Rome's first Emperor.

He wasn't actually crowned emperor. He assume the powers of other offices like proconsolatum(to rule the provincies) and tribunus (to vetoed the decisions of the Senate and the other offices). He was named 'princeps senatus'. The Roman emperors (at least the first ones) were called princeps, not emperors.

[Veruin]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Rassler wrote...
Btw you are on hopelessly anti-mage list of BSN 

Woah, really? Can I see this list? I'd like to dispute it.

I want to see the list too.  I imagine it's 90% of the bsn if I my inkling of who authored it is right.

Modifié par Veruin, 06 janvier 2014 - 12:19 .

[Master Warder Z_]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Am i on the Anti-Mage list of BSN?

Just asking out of curiousity.

As a pro mage member on the BSN, I have placed you on the "We are watching you," list.

As a Pro Templar member of BSN i have promptly ignored the whining of the robes as i gutted them horribly for their complaining and gone back to my drinking.

Ok....I was speaking in jest.

He is just trying hard to be placed on the anti-mage list. He doesn't know that it doesn't accept try-hards and brown-noses.

It makes sense though; I wouldn't except them either.

[Hellion Rex]

Master Warder Z wrote...
That was actually supposed to be humorous...

Oops. My bad. That totally went over my head.

[EmperorSahlertz]

ianvillan wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Where do you assume the Qunari would get this gold from? They were shipwrecked. And making large public statements like that would PROBABLY not ahve been favorable for the Qunari, since that would ahve made it all the easier for their enemies to find out that the Tome was still out of the QUnari's possession.

So the Qunari are shipwrecked and have no money yet they made no threats and were given free lodgings, free food and free materials for there needs and the Arishok still complains about the city and believes it to be a cesspool, The way he decides to repay the hospitality is to try to kill as many people as he can find.

If that is what the Qun is then I shudder to think what his homeland is like.

The Qunari never made any threats when they arrived. And Kirkwall IS a cesspool, even if it is a hospitable one at that.

[Hellion Rex]

Veruin wrote...

I want to see the list too.  I imagine it's 90% of the bsn if I my inkling of who authored it is right.

I am the author of the list.

Modifié par eluvianix, 06 janvier 2014 - 12:18 .

[gottaloveme]

Grand Cleric of Kirkwall; Sister Petrice; Revered Mother of Lothering Chantry
All leaving the fates of others up to the Maker who has (according to them) walked away
Build a new chantry along more egalitarian lines